Dean slams tariff dropping

[Khephra]

Dean slams tariff dropping



WASHINGTON, Dec. 4 (UPI) -- Presidential hopeful Howard Dean slammed President Bush's decision to scrap steel import tariffs, saying it was playing politics with people's lives.

The steel industry, he said Thursday, still needs time to restructure.

"Despite what President Bush may claim, the steel industry needs additional breathing room to get back on its feet," he said. "When he imposed the tariffs, the president's rhetoric suggested that he actually cared about American steelworkers, their families, and the communities in which they live.

"If that were the case, he would not be lifting them today."

more.................

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20031204-034649-3384r.htm

[demon67]

1. It is not just about what US wants

For once, shrub is actually working with other countries and honoring international trade agreements. Maybe it is a move in the right direction.

[xchrom]

2. maybe not

regardless of trade agreements no country should allow those agreements to harm it's citizens and it's own economic diversity.
putting textiles or steel out of business in the u.s. isn't going to anybody any good in the long run -- not even trade.
then there are complexities -- too obscure for this -- about corporations{multi-nationals} sacrifising one job sector in favor of another i.e. america = a nation of service industry and tech workers.

[smirkymonkey]

32. Who knows, maybe they have made some

kind of arrangement whereby they plan to shut down steel plants here and start them up in countries where they can pay the workers a pittance.

[begeegs]

30. A more simplistic approach...

Walk away from the WTO.

[Fovea]

33. This is the first retreat

in a long enconomic war against Bush's policies.
It will not be the last.

Look for a total boycott of American agricultural products and key manufactured goods.

Until PNAC is no longer dictating foreign policy, expect Bush to back down again and again, and conceed point after point. After all, his constituency can always invest in European companies.

In 2005, we switch to a wartime command economy with rationing and perhaps even a new currency. Then it will be total war. Civil War in 2006

[Paschall]

37. Correction, demon67

Shrub is not "working with other countries." Those steel tariffs were ruled illegal by the WTO. Shrub is merely complying with a law he first broke. If he'd wanted to work with other countries, he wouldn't have broken the law in the first place.

[Noordam]

3. HEHEHE Whistle Ass fucked up

IMHO I do not think we should have steel tariffs in the first place.

But * put them in hoping on some votes and now has to drop them to stop a trade war.

hehehe,,,,he did it to himself....

[SharonAnn]

5. Well, he got the GOP votes in 2002 so he's done now.

Apparently doesn't need them any more.

[54anickel]

8. Agree, tariffs were a bad idea. Shrub wasn't thinking (what's new)

I don't think he looked at any other possibilities to help the steel industry out. Diplomacy? no way not Shrub. Gov't bail out, we've done it before for Chrysler, Airlines, etc. But it didn't involve any of his cronies. So he just went the protectionist route and pissed of the WTO. Let's face it, when you plan to be Emperor of the world you really don't give a rat's ass of the worlds opinion, or rules.

[robcon]

4. Dean is totally wrong

The steel tariffs cost more jobs in steel-using industries (e.g. cars, appliances, construction, etc.) than it ever gained for steelworkers.

The tariffs were wrong, and Bush reversed course when he got no political benefit from it.

[Upfront]

6. No, He Has It Right

The Steel industry needs time to restructure, and they are doing it. Dean is looking at a much bigger problem. If the steel industry is allowed to go under where would our steel come from if we had to fight a serious war? Your not going to get it from the enemy. If major manafacturing is allowed to die our country is also dead. McDonalds jobs for all. This is the start of the battle to get our country going again and it deeds to be fought. Dean is right.

[robcon]

7. So, you think losing more jobs is the answer, Upfront?

You cannot increase the cost of a basic commodity like steel in the U.S., and not suffer jobs losses to other countries whose steel costs have not risen. You cannot raise the cost of a basic commodity like steel without affecting inflation. Steel tariffs are a loser.

Saving the steel "industry" is important for national security, but there is absolutely no risk that the "industry" will go under without a stupid, job-sucking tariff.

[w4rma]

9. robcon, what jobs are you talking about that will be lost?

U.S. steelworkers' jobs? U.S. steel owners? U.S. steel managers? Or the steelworkers' jobs in other countries who are willing to work for pennies on the hour?

[robcon]

13. It's easy to identify the jobs...

The most well-known case was General Electric, which moved some of their appliance manufacturing overseas as soon as the cost of steel was increased dramatically.

The other job losses are harder to quantify, but doubtless would include new construction cancelled (since the cost of steel is so important to the building trades), shipyards, bridges, trains, etc. Costs increased dramatically for domestic cars and trucks (relative to imported ones) because the cost of production increased significantly for domestic production, but not imports.

[w4rma]

15. GE moved a factory overseas and you blame that on the tariffs?

You don't think that the reason that GE moved their factory overseas is the same reason that everyone else is moving their factories to China and Mexico? Cheap labor.

EVERYONE is moving their factories overseas. It is impossible to competitively run a factory in America, currently.

[AngryAmish]

22. GE moved because...

they are a bunch of murdering, bloodthirsty brutes. "The cost of steel" is a pretext to get rid of good union workers for a bunch of oversea workers who they can kill at will.

[Upfront]

11. Inflation?

What inflation? No, I am saying this country can't afford to lose its manufacturing base and jobs. If a temporary program like this tariff can save a hugh industry with good union jobs, I will take some inflation. Our good high paying jobs are being lost in record numbers and the middle class won't survive if it continues. When the good paying jobs are gone, the country is dead. When Japan is allowed to sell steel in this country at 20% below manufacturing cost, subsidized by the Goverment of Japan, for the sole reason to drive our steel companys out of business, we lose. When Japan has total control of steel, do you think the costs may go up? I do think the steel industry will go under if they don,t have help untill they get modernized. I realize there are strong feelings on this issue. Your entitled to yours and I am glad to hear them. Time will tell who is right. I hope you are, about steel not going under. B*** actions were for the wrong reasons both times, no supprise as he is an idiot.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. "where would our steel come from" is a bogus argument

unless you're planning on going to war with the entire world. Do you really think the US is going to be blockaded, and all imports stopped? Unless the USA declares war on several steel-producing countries at once, there's no danger to supply.

[WoodrowFan]

27. No, he's wrong

The WZTO rule don it. We can't get pissed at Shrub for ignoring the world's opinion then get mad at him for (FINALLY) obeying international obligations on this point. Besides, the sanctions may have cost MORE jobs that gewtting rid the the tarriff will. What's best for the steelworkers in this case may NOT be right for worker's elsewhere in the US.

[4dsc]

10. Dean is wrong

and this is coming from a die hard support of Dean. The tariff's should not have been put into place to begin with. Dubya is just rectifying a bad decision..

DEAN in 2004!!

[dai]

19. I agree

I think Dean is wrong this time, but I still support him.

If the steel industry can't compete now, how would the tariffs crutch make them more competitive?

To say nothing of the potential trade war...

[Paschall]

38. PLEASE READ: Dean statement on steel tariffs decision

This is not filtered through the Moonie Washington Times:

"Despite what President Bush may claim, the steel industry needs additional breathing room to get back on its feet. But the tariffs are a short term solution to a larger problem - this Administration's broken trade policy. Our trade agreements need to benefit workers, not just big multinational corporations.

"The President's decision to lift the steel tariffs early is just another example of this Administration playing politics with peoples' lives. When he imposed the tariffs, the President's rhetoric suggested that he actually cared about American steelworkers, their families, and the communities in which they live. If that were the case, he would not be lifting them today," said Governor Dean.

Governor Dean believes that we should be protecting American jobs by making trade fair; that we need tougher labor and environmental rights in our trade agreements; that we need to enforce vigorously the terms of existing trade agreements so that American workers, farmers, and businesses get the benefits that we bargained for; and that we must promote laws that encourage companies to create jobs in the US, not laws that encourage companies to move jobs overseas.

"When done fairly, trade can ensure the continued growth and health of the American economy and the creation and strengthening of the middle class throughout the developing world."

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002521.html

[jamesinca]

12. Here is my take on it, for what it is worth

"Despite what President Bush may claim, the steel industry needs additional breathing room to get back on its feet," he said. "When he imposed the tariffs, the president's rhetoric suggested that he actually cared about American steelworkers, their families, and the communities in which they live.

"If that were the case, he would not be lifting them today."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is pretty self explanitory, first remember it is from the WT. Dean is pointing out a Bush lie,plain and simple. If he cared about the steel people and that is why this was done, he would have left it in place, or not have been so selective in its application. A little more thinking by the Bush administration would have crafted a plan that was palatable to the world in general. He did it for votes in '02. Because he lifted them, it does say that he imposed them for something other than a moral reason. As was determined by the international powers there was no reason to impose them. The steel industry was not being hurt by the international community. If anything they were hurt by Bush and his policies and the rest of the world can not be held accoutable on a selective basis for his mistakes. If you look, holding everyone else responsible is a trademark of this administration and guess what, somebody called the POS on it this time. Dean is only pointing it out that Bush is a POS and the world has called him on it. My only regret about this is that Dean did not use the word "fatuous" to describe Bush before Clark did.

[KittyWampus]

35. If Dean Was Pointing Out A "Lie" He Did A Piss Poor Job

Dean starts his quote by saying the tariff's need more time.

Dean is saying he agrees with the tariff's.

The tariff's were wrong.

Dean is wrong.

Dean either supports the tariff's or he doesn't.

If Dean wanted to fault Junior.... he did a terrible job of it.


"Despite what President Bush may claim, the steel industry needs additional breathing room to get back
on its feet," he said. "When he imposed the tariffs, the president's rhetoric suggested that he actually
cared about American steelworkers, their families, and the communities in which they live.

"If that were the case, he would not be lifting them today.

[camero]

14. We don't need tariffs

What we need is a tax on Multinational Corporations to ensure that American jobs stay in America. Tariffs just punish developing countries.

[Zen0]

16. tax on anything disrupts...

..the u.s. is so large (economic wise) any kind of lifting of tariff, or any form of taxing- effects everyone greatly. Not just the country or countries perceived to be effected but everyone around it. Something so simple as this, can have such negative effects on everybody.

[camero]

17. so then how do we fund the government

another libertarian?

The tax would work because companies that make there product in America and for Americans would cost less than products made overseas and shipped back to the US. Thus negating the advantage in labor costs.

If say Toyota makes their cars in Japan and sells them here. No problem. Nobody has a problem with buying a Honda, they just don't want GM taking their jobs overseas.

[JNelson6563]

18. Two points come to mind

One being that if our steel industry folds we will be completely dependent upon foreign steel. We do need to find a way for Steel to get it together.

The second thing is already stated in this thread, the fact that this highlights Bush's change of heart. He feels safe in office, Karl has told him not to worry. He did tariffs to win '02.

Julie

[Renew Deal]

20. Dean is out of his mind.

This is not the issue to be taking on the world over. The steel industry needs help, fine help them internally. There is no reason for nastiness with the world over this. Besides that, I heard that some think the tariffs are illegal. I need to find out more about that.

[jamesinca]

21. The tariffs were illegal

That is the reason the rest of the world came after him. He had to back down because what the EU was proposing were very direct tariffs at states that he won. The tariffs that they were going to impose would have broke the back of places like Florida, from citrus, and some of the cotton states in the south. They gave him a deadline and he said he needed time to consider their offer, 8 days was tacked onto the deadline. He had until Dec 17.

[OrAnarch]

24. illegal maybe...

Am I missing something here, but aren't those tarrifs deemed illegal by trade organizations that a majority of people on this board are not interested in anyway?


Free trade is highly overrated, in my humble opinoin, anyway. Listen, now although I agree that under the premise that trade organizations are infalliable and part of our desired status quo, Dean is incorrect, but the last time I checked, not a whole lot of people in America are too happy with our status quo in general, nor factors that have been attributed to it (free trade).


For those who are analyzing things in a global fashion, your seeing the trees but missing the forest (the election). Just as America rallied behind the call that international organizations such as the UN were useless, as they stood in the way of our war goals, I believe this same group can be rallied to the cause that international free trade associations are harmful, as they strip us of protecting our workers (from sometimes subisdized industries in socialistic societies). Although you people here want to view things from an international legality point, I don't think this is what resonates with the American people. Not at all...and what Dean is doing is winning an election right now, not a nobel peace price. Hate to be cynical bout that.


Dean is only incorrect according to some rules many of us, and many other Americans with the proper persuasion, despise anyway. But as there are many different groups in our own country, there are many different values to judge actions by, and to spin them by too.


Wasn't it Twain who said something along the lines, "Free traders win all the arguments, but the protectionists win all the votes" :) hehe.

[rjbcar27]

23. Pandering to the pissed off steel industry?

Hoping to collect the votes that Bush just lost? Could be.

He's dead wrong on this issue. The tariffs were deemed illegal. What part of illegal does Dean not understand?

Anyway, steel users, such as the auto industry will be pleased about this, so all the votes Bush lost in PA, WV and OH etc will be offset by the votes he gains in MI etc.

[doc03]

25. Bush was right for putting tariffs on

The ITC ruled that steel was being illeagally dumped in this country, that is why he put the tariffs on in the first place. Bush is wrong for not standing up to the WTO. That is exactly why Bush was elected,
because Clinton didn't stand up for the American worker when he was President. It is only a matter of time that the auto industry will be in the same fix as steel. The US auto industry is slowly looseing market share and will be priced out of buisiness just like all the
other industries we have lost. It used to be the Democrats stood up for the American worker and until they do they will not get the union vote.

[doc03]

28. Ross was right!

What ever happened to Ross Porot anyway. Where is he now? We need him
out there raising hell about the giant sucking sound and defficits.
That is probably the only way to get a Democrat elected again if he
would split the vote.

[Fovea]

34. Ross got his snout injured

in the California Energy Scam.
And is currently sitting it out.

[brainshrub]

29. Let's be fair here:

It's not like Bu$h has a choice. If he wants to keep Globalization going, he has to drop the tariffs or risk a trade war that the United States will lose.

When Dean becomes President, I doubt he will change the tariffs.

[Stuckinthebush]

31. This is a murky issue at best

If we protect the interests of the steel industry, then we run the risk of the EU and Japan inflicting massive economic damage by imposing tariffs on other US goods. In fact, the EU and Japan immediately scrapped plans to impose massive tariffs once Bush announced this. Some could say it was economic blackmail, but nevertheless, there really was no option.

[rumguy]

36. Dean knows how to exploit those political fault lines

that's one reason he'd be a good candidate

[trapper914]

39. Yes, but...

...he could've just pointed out how Bush didn't really care about the steel industry as much as he cared about votes in 2002. Of course, with all that union support, Dean has to say he thought the tariffs should have remained in place longer. I disagree with him on that point.

As long as we are part of the WTO, we are obligated to abide by its rules. The tariffs should've never been imposed. There HAS to be another way to help the steel industry. Not subsidies, mind you, but maybe government grants to modernize and maximize U.S. steel production.