3 Fla. Schools Locked Down; 2 Deputies Shot

[Tab]

LAKELAND, Fla. -- Police were searching for a suspect who shot two sheriff's deputies Thursday, authorities said.

The Polk County deputies were taken to a hospital following the early afternoon shooting in north Lakeland, sheriff's spokeswoman Donna Wood said. She didn't know their conditions.

A hospital spokeswoman referred questions about the deputies to the sheriff's office.

The shooting occurred near Kathleen High School, which was locked down, Wood said. A woman who would identify herself only as Mrs. Platt said students were locked in their classrooms and were safe.

Television video footage showed armed police with shields searching a wooded area with traffic backed up on nearby Interstate 4 in the town about 35 miles east of Tampa. A law enforcement helicopter flew over the area, and armed officers were seen surrounding a ramshackle building.
http://www.nbc10.com/news/9956409/detail.html

[truthisfreedom]

1. scary school stuff lately. jeepers.

[johnnie]

2. What in the hell is going on?

People are going fucking nuts.

[villager]

4. The Red State meltdown is upon us....

n/t

[libhill]

9. Gun Control -

has to happen...the fukkin' gun culture has to end.

[Lost-in-FL]

10. HELL NO!!

HOW are we going to defend ourselves from the Republinazi party? Fascism is knocking on our doors people!!!!!

[0007]

17. I've got news for 'ya.

Fascism is here!

[benEzra]

15. Stay out of our gun safe, please...

my wife and I both own guns, lawfully and responsibly.

I dare say that this guy wasn't legally allowed to so much as touch a gun or a single round of ammunition, and couldn't have obtained a license to carry a gun. Banning the guns secured in our family's gun safe won't do a THING about the .38 in your local criminal's waistband...

[libhill]

21. Understood, I was ranting out of frustration and rage...

I'm a gun owner too, by the way - but I'm at my wits end with the insanity. The slaughter has to stop, there has to be some kind of reasonable solution. There are plenty of gun owners in Canada, but this shit doesn't happen there, at least not on an almost nightly news level of frequency.

[madfloridian]

3. More on this with a map

http://theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060928/BREAKING/60928003

[YDogg]

6. Several miles from where I am right now.

[karlrschneider]

5. One of the deputies has died according to CNN

...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

7. Some days it seems as if the country is simply ripping apart at the seams

Well, most days, but some more than others.

[Supersedeas]

8. *sigh*

[Lost-in-FL]

11. The shooting WAS NOT related to the school

It was NEAR the school NOT on the school. The locked the school for protection. Here http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/southwest/orl-bk-shooting092806,0,7769204.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

LAKELAND -- Two Polk County deputies were shot this afternoon following a traffic stop west of Lakeland, and one died, Sheriff Grady Judd said.

The other deputy was shot in the leg and expected to recover. A search dog with one of the deputies also was killed, Judd said at a 4:15 p.m. news conference.

A manhunt is underway for the shooter.

According to Judd, Speirs stopped a vehicle for speeding on Wabash Avenue near Tenth Street about 10:45 a.m. The driver of that vehicle gave the deputy a false ID and at some point asked if he was going to be arrested.

Judd said Spiers told the driver he didn't know if he would be arrested. That's when, according to Judd, the driver, who is described as a black male with dreadlocks wearing a white shirt, ran into nearby woods. Williams and his dog, Diogi, arrived to help search for the suspect.

At 12:30 p.m. "numerous shots were fired," Judd said. Speirs fired back, but he and Williams were shot in the exchange.

[madfloridian]

12. The kids are still in lock in according to local news.

One deputy has died.

Looks like they would let the parents come and pick up their kids. It is getting late.

[leesa]

13. Aren't they one of the 'shoot first ask questions later' states?

These 'shoot if you feel insecure' laws are bound to cause endless shootings...get used to it.

[AlinPA]

14. Yes, FL is one of those states. From what I understand, one just has to

"feel threatened" and they can shoot someone who seems to be a threat. There are a lot of people who feel victimized and feel that someone is out to get them so this law is going to make people think twice about even appraoching someone who might have a gun.
http://www.plastic.com/article.html;sid=05/04/28/04490192

[benEzra]

16. You are incorrect.

The Florida law, and other laws based thereon, did NOT change the criteria by which a shooting may be ruled justifiable self-defense. The new law only clarifies that you don't have to try to run away if you are being violently attacked, are being carjacked, or are the victim of an illegal home invasion.

You CANNOT shoot someone simply because you "feel threatened," and doing so would still be either 2nd-degree murder or voluntary manslaughter in Florida, depending on the extenuating circumstances.

[AlinPA]

18. There are a lot of "what-ifs" around this. I was in a bar and a drunk

told the bartender he was going to cut his (the bartender's) throat with a broken beer bottle. The guy was falling down drunk. Suppose the bartender had shot him instead of coming around the bar and challenging the drunk (who then fell over and was held down while a cop was called). The guy did threaten him with a broken beer bottle, a dangerous weapon. I still call it a shoot first and ask questions later law, especially if someone was lurking around on one's property and there were "No Trespassing" signs and the lurker gets shot because he scares the owner. The whole thing is confusing.

[benEzra]

19. The basics of self-defense law...

The laws of all the states are quite similar as far as what constitutes justifiable self-defense. I'll quote from Steve Johnson, Concealed Carry Handgun Training, North Carolina Justice Academy, 1995, pp. 3-4 (the laws in Florida are similar, but this is the best wording I've found):

(1) Justified Self-Defense

A citizen is legally justified in using deadly force against another if and only if:

(a) The citizen actually believes deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, AND

(b) The facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force WAS necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, AND

(c) The citizen using deadly force was not an instigator or aggressor who voluntarily provoked, entered, or continued the conflict leading to deadly force, AND

(d) Force used was not excessive -- greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor."

(Emphasis added.) Note that all four conditions must be met in order for a shooting to be ruled justifiable. Note especially letter (b) above, which is the "reasonable person test"; merely "feeling threatened" by someone else is not justification for the use of lethal force. The belief must be legitimate, i.e. "the facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force WAS necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault." The new Florida law does not change these criteria, it just eliminated the subjective duty to run away that was present in Florida law even in the face of a lethal attack.

Florida, and many other states, also authorize potentially-lethal force to stop the commission of a "forcible felony," as defined by statute; such would include kidnapping, armed robbery, aggravated assault (i.e., assault likely or intended to maim or cause serious bodily harm and that could result in death), etc.

OK, now to the recent law that eliminated the "duty to run away" requirement that had been in Florida law, and also extended the "Castle Doctrine" (the presumption that if someone is illegally breaking into your occupied home, you are in danger, which is already law in most states) to your vehicle.

In the case of the drunk with the bartender, it would come down to just how serious the threat from the drunk appeared to be, and just how imminent the threat was, and that would be true in any state. The thing about a claim of self-defense is that the burden is on the shooter to demonstrate that the shooting was, in fact, justifiable, rather than on the state to prove that it wasn't. So if a case is questionable, it tends to swing against the person claiming self-defense.

[AlinPA]

20. You know your stuff. Good , thank you. (d) would also apply to the drunk

event in the bar.