Cleric: Remove Saddam Loyalists [60 Minutes]

[LiberalFighter]

60 Minutes

When the U.S. invasion came last spring with promises of democracy and self-rule, people in Karbala were among the first to try and take charge of their own affairs.

Religious and community leaders got together and selected a city council to represent them, and a security force to protect them. They had assumed that their experiment in democracy would be applauded by the American military. It was not. U.S. troops disarmed the protection force, arrested popular city councilmen and put back into power some of the same people who had served Saddam.

It has left people here angry and frustrated, including Dr. Hussein Shahristani, one of the most respected exiles to return after the war. The last time 60 Minutes spoke with him was in London just before the war. He was one of Iraq's leading dissidents, a top nuclear scientist who had refused to help Saddam to build a nuclear bomb. At that time, he told Correspondent Steve Kroft about his 11 years in solitary confinement and torture at the hands of Saddam's henchmen.
/snip/

I am becoming more and more disallusioned with US Military. I would not trust them here in the United States especially under the our dictator.



Note: This was broadcasted Sunday Nite 12/7/2003. Hope this still qualifies as late breaking news.

[Racenut20]

1. I just watched it. It was very sad to me.

Kind of like back in 68, being called a baby killer.

[LiberalFighter]

2. They don't deserve respect for their actions.

They need to act honorably to have respect.

[conservdem]

3. It was angering.

As I posted on the GD board a couple of minutes ago:

This segmit on 60 minutes has me irate. I hope its not the end of the story.

I have been supporting our efforts over there, but this is an outrage that needs to be addressed. I hope its an aberration, but I now fear that there are problems like this over there.

[leftchick]

6. "I have been supporting our efforts over there"?

Please elaborate what the US efforts are other than to colonize a country, steal their natural resources and repress their people. That is all they planned to do and all they have accomplished. Oh yes and killed thousands of the native population along the way....

[conservdem]

9. Notwithstading the piece on 60 minutes, I think that people are less

repressed their now.

The 60 minutes piece actually proves this. Under the old regime, the primary speaker on the story probably would have been to afraid to speak while still in Iraq.

Needless to say I do not completely agree with your point of view about what we are trying to do over there.

[leftchick]

18. repression = freedom

sounds like chimpass* speak....

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/07/international/middleeast/07TACT.html?ex=1071378000&?en=b9c5e965e018edf1&?ei=5062&?partner=GOOGLE

Tough New Tactics by US Tighten Grip on Iraq Towns


<As the guerrilla war against Iraqi insurgents intensifies, American soldiers have begun wrapping entire villages in barbed wire.

In selective cases, American soldiers are demolishing buildings thought to be used by Iraqi attackers. They have begun imprisoning the relatives of suspected guerrillas, in hopes of pressing the insurgents to turn themselves in.
The Americans embarked on their get-tough strategy in early November, goaded by what proved to be the deadliest month yet for American forces in Iraq, with 81 soldiers killed by hostile fire. The response they chose is beginning to echo the Israeli counterinsurgency campaign in the occupied territories.

So far, the new approach appears to be succeeding in diminishing the threat to American soldiers. But it appears to be coming at the cost of alienating many of the people the Americans are trying to win over. Abu Hishma is quiet now, but it is angry, too.>


.......Photos for id cards too! Are tatoos next? Sounds like concentration camp tactics to me.

[conservdem]

29. Please respond to post #10.

[leftchick]

30. I am not falling for your strawman tactic....

You should be responding to my response of the typical chimpass* reasoning of war = peace, repression = liberation (or freedom, you pick!), etc..... I gave you a fine link to information as to how fucked up this all is. Perhaps you did not bother to read it and see the actual photos of the oppressed? ....Hmmmm, I am waiting.... :)

[conservdem]

32. What's to respond to? You don't think we should be there.

Thats a fair and reasonable position. As to "repression=liberation" notion, I do not follow you.

But do you think the guy on 60 minutes would have been able to speak the way he did if it were not for our action over there? Now this was in my first reply to you, but you ignored it or avoided it.

Is there any optomisim left in you?

[conservdem]

10. BTW as a Clark supporter can you tell me if he has the

same pesssimistic view that you have regarding our efforts over there?

[schultzee]

22. BTW we should not be there in the first place. Saddam had no WMD's

but he did have lots and lots of oil. Is it OK to kill people for oil? Is it OK to use our soldiers for that purpuse? I gather you support war whether we really need it or not.

[Neutrino]

26. Iraq Gulag

Sunday's front page of the New York Times--a picture of razor wire
stretched around individual towns, and all citizens having to be
photographsed and unable to move about without an ID Card written
in a language they can't read, describing each person. The article
described statements like "Violence is all that Arabs understand",
as well as information about troops being trained in Israel to
copy methods of deadly force used on Palistinians. Every day the
tactics become more despicable, and as an American, nothing I was
ever taught would be possible in a peace-loving nation.

Last week in the NYT, pictures of soldiers writing numbers on
prisoners necks in black ink-marker. As they sat hog-tied with
bags over their heads, the writing on their necks is a screaming
comparison of Nazi Germany!

[LiberalFighter]

13. There has been much more happening over there

that should make Americans mad and embarrassed.

Troops (not everyone) but still too many and those determining the future of Iraqis are making decisions like bullies did when we were in school. We have a responsibility to show respect and to treat their citizens because it is their country. Not ours.

The problem is that the current administration is not interested in creating a democracy in Iraq. They have other goals that are detrimental to Iraq, the United States and the rest of the world. Democracy does not work when it is forced on people. Even then creating a democracy that is based on the different religions will result in a civil war. If they were serious they would have a prohibition on anyone religious leader holding any type of political position. They need to understand that they can only survive as one instead of as individual factions based on religion. That has a better chance of preventing another Saddam from rising to power.

[okieinpain]

27. and that's the problem. the majority (shiites) will elect one of their

religious leaders in a heartbeat, and that's what everyone is afraid of. that's why bushco has hooked backup with their saddam croonies, and are supressing the majority all over again. except this time it's not saddam doing it, it's the evil americans.

[conservdem]

4. On the positive side of things, it looks like that city will be doing

well once that Saddam holdover is removed.

That guy we are wrongly holding in jail, and all others like him, also have to be freed.

[LiberalFighter]

14. And the police chief needs to be removed

since he was part of the old regime. And the commander in charge of that area needs to be held accountable as well as required to perform their duties properly. The woman in charge to my hearing was lying when she said she didn't know about the man being held.

[schultzee]

24. There is nothing positive about going to war for a lie, unless you

just like killing people. Enjoy it do you?

[okieinpain]

28. man, bushco made that colonel look like a fool huh?

.

[papau]

5. An amazing tale that other networks will ignore - traitors in power, heros

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/04/60minutes/main586841.shtml
60 Minutes

60 minutes reveals Bush Iraq lies - no Baathists in power really means that the Baathist murders really are in power - the traitors are in power - and the rest of our media hide the story.

Is Russia's way to win elections – at least in 2000 - the next 60 minutes show to reveal a possible interesting lead-in to 911 - something that taught Bush a lot?

In any case this was an amazing tale that other networks will ignore - traitors (Baathist murders chosen by Bush) in power, heroes arrested and held with out charges or contact with anyone (Bush seems to like this procedure) and all that is known is that the heroes objected to putting Saddam's torturers and murderers - the Baathists - back in power - and indeed had been selected by their local community as "city councilors" so as to bring that message to Bush and Bremer - so off to prison they go. From the report:


"Even though Ambassador Paul Bremer is on record saying that no high-ranking members of Saddam's old Baath Party will hold power in Iraq, in Karbala, the U.S. government is cooperating with Gen. Abud and has put him in charge of a well-armed force – even though he is a Baathist.

“The decision is Mr. Bremer's. He's the decision maker and he can make an exception,” says Abud.

Neither Ambassador Bremer nor the Marines would discuss any aspect of their role in Karbala."

Seems Bush lies to us and the US media - except for 60 minutes - lies or chooses to not tell us.

When you combine this with the way Putin got power in Russia in 2000 - by having the new KGB plant bombs in apartments, killing hundreds, and claiming that the Chet's rebels had done the evil - thereby getting the strong leader vote. It makes Bush's need to hide 911 info very interesting. But the Putin control of the media after it was proven that he and friends had faked the terror - because the next apartment bomb did not go off, the found the terrorist called home to the KGB to ask instructions and were told to get out of town the best they could - and when the shit hits the fan, Putin's replacement as head of the KGB admits everything and says it was an exercise in seeing if the town had good homeland security - and that the town did great!

And this "a fake terrorist were really KGG" story is known throughout Russia and Europe, and our media has said nothing.

Do you think they are afraid that if we saw that Putin was ready to kill thousands to win an election - and did - and got away with it - in 2000, we might think Bush might follow the same plan in 2001 - say on 9/11/2001?

Nah- unthinkable.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/04/60minutes/main586841.shtml
60 Minutes

[Nlighten1]

8. I want to know more about this Putin story.

The KGB was planting bombs for him?

[papau]

11. I caught the C-span discussion - which implied that this was true

I believe the c-span discussion of Putin's FSB(the new KGB)
and use of fake FSB terrorist to committ killings so Putin's vote was larger was actually a discussion of this book.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/225

Putin's War
By Sergei Kovalev

The bombs used in apartments that blew up used the same chemical as the bomb that failed to go off.

The bomb that failed to go off used a standard FSB (new KGB) / Russian Army issued time unit.

The "terrorists" are admitted to being FSB - only Putin claims they were testing Homeland Security.

Putin needed votes - and the apartments blown up by "terrorists" gave him the election.

Those are the known facts. No one has said in Russia that Putin ordered those folks killed and to make it look like terrorists. But then then have not said anything about Bush and LIHOP in the US media, either.

There is no confession by Putin that he used the FSB for election purposes - and the FSB does not confess to killing the folks in the apartments - indeed it was "terrorists" that did the killing per Putin and the FSB .... and the Russian media.

[Nlighten1]

12. I don't see this information in the article.

"The bombs used in apartments that blew up used the same chemical as the bomb that failed to go off.

The bomb that failed to go off used a standard FSB (new KGB) / Russian Army issued time unit.

The "terrorists" are admitted to being FSB - only Putin claims they were testing Homeland Security."

[papau]

19. c-span usually has videos available - not transcripts - so

you'd need a video of the c-span show where the book was discussed (it looked liked a small group - he speaks and the Q&A - :-) )

OR YOU BUY THE BOOK!

:-)

or you hang and speed read at your local book store!

:-)

[Nlighten1]

17. Kick for more information about the FSB/Putin connection

Do you have a link for this info?

[papau]

20. read at your local book store? c-span usually has videos available

c-span usually has videos available - not transcripts - so


you'd need a video of the c-span show where the book was discussed (it looked liked a small group - he speaks and the Q&A - )

OR YOU BUY THE BOOK!



or you hang and speed read at your local book store!


:-)

[Nlighten1]

21. OIC

So this information was from a book not from a website. Roger that...I will go and get the book.

[54anickel]

7. Wow, I remember hearing early on that the Kurds to the north were

worried they would loose their "democracy experiment" government. I had not heard of this stuff happening in Karbala until now.
Kudos to 60 Minutes

[gauguin57]

15. when I watched this "60 minutes" story

I was thoroughly appalled by the "60 Minutes" report. Though I don't put ANYTHING past the Bush Crime Family at this point, I had to replay my tape of the show to be sure I heard right. Our military basically overthrew Iraq's own attempts to govern itself, and then put Saddam's thugs back in power. Uh ... what are we supposed to be doing over there again? Oh, sorry. I forgot. We're supposed to be COMPLETELY FULFILLING PNAC'S BLUEPRINT FOR AMERICAN DOMINATION OF THE MIDDLE EAST.

Bastards, bastards, bastards. :mad: :mad: :mad:

When a U.S. military official stands there bragging to Steve Kroft about how everyone under U.S. arrest over there is charged within 72 hours and has access to counsel, and then "checks on things" and then tells "60 Minutes" to turn off the cameras ... and THEN informs Kroft that the Iraqi-chosen city council member in question hasn't been charged after TWO MONTHS in the pokey, and hasn't been given access to ANYTHING ... well ... we know we're in serious trouble. This stuff stinks to high heaven, and it's being done in OUR NAME as Americans.

Bush must be thrown from office, to await the day when he is thrown into hell (or a nice jail cell at the Hague ... whichever comes first).

And Kerry is supposed to apologize for using the "f-word"? Give me a fucking break, George.

[DeathvadeR]

16. Kick+ to 60 minutes for this one

:kick: Proof that Iraq can only have a democracy that we approve and select for them.

[LiberalFighter]

31. A puppet democracy

[schultzee]

23. Some want war just for the sake of war. And find excuses for it

that in the end don't wash, like Vietnam and the lies of Johnson. In the end people who are innocent die and I guess that is OK with some who like it. Our military should be used only when we have a direct real threat not a fake one for George's buddies to make money.

[RPG-7]

25. duh..

The same dunces who believed that the most delapitated military in the middle east who happened to be sitting on a shitload of oil posed some massive threat to them will now be shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you that our motive of bringing dignity and self rule to the Iraqi people (wipe a tear from your eye at our own incredible goodness) was all just more BS.