A Daily Look at U.S. Deaths in Iraq - 451 U.S. service members have died

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031211/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_us_deaths&cid=540&ncid=1480

As of Thursday, Dec. 11, 451 U.S. service members have died since the beginning of military operations in Iraq (news - web sites), according to the Department of Defense (news - web sites). Of those, 310 died as a result of hostile action and 141 died of non-hostile causes, the department said. snip

On or since May 1, when President Bush (news - web sites) declared that major combat operations in Iraq had ended, 313 U.S. soldiers have died — 195 as a result of hostile action and 118 of non-hostile causes, according to the Defense Department's figures.

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[DemoTex]

1. Since it is DoD info ...

I read it as at least 451 U.S. service members have died since the beginning of military operations in Iraq.

[teryang]

2. I love the "non hostile" cause lies

Many of these men died in action. It seems like the once the mischaracterization is made at the outset, when Centcom claims not to know the surrounding cirmcumstances that the numbers aren't adjusted later when the truth comes out.

Can you imagine how bad our intelligence is when the top commanders can't even get the facts straight on how their soldiers died?

[DemoTex]

3. Some of the non-hostile action is probably "fragging"

Probably a small percentage, but a factor. It almost has to be. I have nothing to back that up but a gut feeling and 365 days in Vietnam, Republic of.

[sexybomber]

4. Uh... stupid question.

I only know the word "frag" from playing Quake. What's it mean in the context of Vietnam?

[Jackpine Radical]

5. It refers to the quaint custom of

throwing an M-26 fragmentation grenade into the vicinity (e.g. into the foxhole of) an unpopular officer. Officers tended to be popular or unpopular depending on their skill at keeping their own troops from being killed by stupid orders.

By extension, any deliberate killing or attempted killing of an officer came to be called "fragging." Grenades were particularly popular because they are hard to trace to the specific perpetrator.

Edited for stupid typo

[NNN0LHI]

6. Fragging

http://home.mweb.co.za/re/redcap/vietcrim.htm
Fragging. When one American killed another American, usually a superior officer or an NCO, the term "fragging" came into use. Although the term simply meant that a fragmentation grenade was used in the murder, it later became an all encompassing term for such an action. It is known that "fraggings" did occur during Vietnam, but the precise number is uncertain.

"During the years of 1969 down to 1973, we have the rise of fragging - that is, shooting or hand-grenading your NCO or your officer who orders you out into the field," says historian Terry Anderson of Texas A & M University. "The US Army itself does not know exactly how many...officers were murdered. But they know at least 600 were murdered, and then they have another 1400 that died mysteriously. Consequently by early 1970, the army (was) at war not with the enemy but with itself." Rough figures for "fraggings" are indicated in column a. below.

[DemoTex]

7. Thanks Don, for the ultra-bad news. I had no idea it was so bad.

On fragging of officers in Vietnam: But they know at least 600 were murdered, and then they have another 1400 that died mysteriously.

OK, extrapolate over the few months we have been in Iraq. Bad news, huh?

[ignatius]

8. Yet more blood on Bush and Cheney's hands.

n/t

[SoCalDem]

9. Army Times has them all listed and profiles of them all

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/honor.html

[catmandu57]

10. Lunaville has the count at 453

possible 454 they haven't found the other soldier who went into the river trying to save the drowning man. Either I read that story wrong or they changed it, at first I read where an apc had crashed into a canal, now they say that a soldier fell out of a boat and another one jumped in to try to rescue him.

[farmbo]

11. Two Ohio National Guardsmen died today, but you won't read about them

They drowned while on patrol on the Tigris River. But since they weren't shot or blown up, the Pentagon does not consider their deaths' combat related.

RIP guys.