Car tax cut could cost San Diego

[salin]

Car tax cut could cost San Diego

SIGNONSANDIEGO NEWS SERVICES
12:41 p.m. December 12, 2003

SAN DIEGO – Lack of a plan to reimburse cities and counties for loss of vehicle license fee money could force San Diego to lay off employees and cut services, the mayor and city manager warned today.

The cuts could come as soon as January, said City Manager Michael Uberuaga.

VLF revenues go directly to cities and counties and pay for such essential services as police, fire, parks, libraries and trash collection.

-------------------- snip

Mayor Dick Murphy said he supported Schwarzenegger's repeal of the increase, but strongly criticized the Legislature for failing to pass a bill to reimburse cities and counties for the revenue loss.

more: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20031212-1241-budgetcuts.html

Is it just me... or does this read ... I want the tax cut... but Waaaaait.... I want the rest of the state to make up (through other taxes) the difference... (also known as: I want my cake and to eat it too...) and he calls the legislature, irresponsibile

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. This is SD for you

This is a very republican city, not as bad as it used to be

But the mentality is correct

We want them services, but we do not want to pay for them.

One day all those repukes will call 911 and nobody will answer...
maybe that day they will learn

[Katherine2]

6. Well, at least

all these projected job losses won't help George Bush any.

[Tempest]

2. I read somewhere that Arnold got 65% or so of the vote in SD county

Can't really feel for them, sorry.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. San Diego is changing to a more

Democratic city, but not fast enough to be honest

The other problem is getting the minorities to vote... that is a
major issue

[shanti]

27. san diego is wilson country

to the folks who voted for the groper (not DU'ers): you got what you wanted, but it wasn't how you wanted it! now you'll pay.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. True but it was also Maureen O'Hare country and GOD DO I WISH

she would run for public office again. She was the mayor that followed Wilson and Hedgecock and she would have won again had she ran again.

her husband was ill and he has since passed away...she was one of the BEST progressive mayors in the nation.

[haele]

40. Maureen O'Conner...

She also made a lot of enemies that came to power during the Wilson Governership and still have to be shaken out before she can make any more political efforts.
They've been doing their best to hobble anything she's tried to do over the last 10 or so years (especially that sore whiney baby loser - Roger Hedgecock), so she's been working the Joan Kroc angle lately to try to get some change for the better.

Haele

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

44. I always do that with her name!

:shrug: Used to do it when I was DOWN there and she was mayor :silly:

[haele]

39. Hey, our SD County precinct was one of the few that voted down the recall

And in return, the wild fires passed all around us along precinct lines...
O8)
65% is actually pretty low in this area for voting 'Pubbie or voting along celebrity or Wilsonian lines; however, one should also remember that the Republicans against the Recall group started in SD county back in June, so SD county residents in general don't really "deserve" such scorn.

Haele

[pinto]

4. Registration fees were a fair and predictable revenue source for

the whole state, but especially cities. San Diego did in fact cut off its nose to spite its face. They called it a tax and had to kill it. Now they have to figure out how to live with that...

Ironically, LA Mayor Hahn said today that LA will lose $19 million a month from loss of reg fees.

[reknewcomer]

7. How can LA "lose" something they never had?

I would guess that most car owners don't consider it a bad thing that they don't have to pay threefold or more to drive their vehicles. I know I'd be very happy to not have to fork over yet another fee.

[pinto]

8. new reg fees had been included in city and county budgets, I'm not

crazy about more fees either but, as you know, they're a prime funder of essential services.

[lolly]

9. Hmm, let's see.

Which would I rather have happen:

1) Save a couple hundred dollars on license fees

or

2) Have my children's schools shut down, my city services eliminated, my phone calls to emergency personnel unanswered . . . etc etc.

Where in G-d's name do people think the money for all these things comes from?

[reknewcomer]

11. CA was doing it before the outlandish car tax was dreamed up

The is a point where wisdom needs to be used when drawing up budgets and spending needs to be kept at a survival level. I seriously doubt the schools will be shut down, the needed city services eliminated and the police and fire units closed etc.

[salin]

13. If I recall... back in Gov Wilson's (r) Administration this bit of

legislation was put in as a 'emergency' mechanism - and passed by the legislature. If /when the state hit a fiscal down turn - the tax would automatically go into effect to ensure that important basic local services would not be cut back in a way that would put communities at risk. The huge wild fires this fall are an example of why this tax exists. In these tougher times, without the car tax, there would have been far fewer fire fighters and emergency crews (evacuating residents) than existing - requiring tapping in across the region much more quickly (hitting other areas much more steeply).

I just thought the background of the provision/tax might be helpful. The idea that is often promoted that this was a "new" tax created/imposed by Davis for nonessential things... is very inaccurate.

[lolly]

16. Yep.

This was an older emergency provision.

It was actually "repealed" a couple years ago under Clinton's economic boom, when times were good and tax revenues were up--hence the refunds a while back.

But once AWOL's tax breaks for the rich kicked in, Enron raided the CA treasury, and tax revenues went down, the state ran out of money--which, according to the law already in effect, triggered the return to previous levels of the car fee.

So, no, CA didn't "manage" before--we had the license revenues before, didn't need them under a good economy, and now we need them again.

So, we should learn to spend more wisely? Well, according to Gov. Groper, that DOES mean cutting back on education, help for disabled persons, fire prevention and readiness, etc.

[pinto]

20. Thx for the refresher. That provision was a good fiscal method to deal w/

fluctuating revenues and the need for a level of services, not to mention infrastructure repair (which will go by the boards, by the way).

Repugs think fiscal responsibility means starving government services out of existence.

Now the SD mayor, of all folks, is grousing about the results: layoffs and service cuts. Thanks for the post.

[Le Taz Hot]

47. A little education

This provision was put in by the Wilson (R) administration. It basically said that, in years of deficit, the vehicle tax remains the same. In years of surplus (such as the one we had during the Clinton/Gore/Davis years BEFORE Enron's rape of California), the vehicle tax is reduced. Enter the dot com failures AND Bush's buddies' manufactured "energy crisis" and we had a $56 billion deficit, so the vehicle tax kicked back to the ORIGINAL LEVEL.

Btw, during the recall effort, the media kept repeated that CA had a $56 billion deficit. It didn't. Due to a budget compromise with the Republicans in the Legislature over the summer, that deficit was cut to $8 billion -- a significant portion of the deficit was cut BECAUSE of the vehicle tax.

Enter Ahnie who cuts the vehicle tax again. We're back up to a $15 billion deficit and growing, our bond rating has been downgraded AGAIN and Governor Gropenfurer wants to issue a bond measure for the March election.

Apparently, governing the 5th largest economy in the world wasn't quite the cakewalk Ahnie thought it would be.

[jamesinca]

31. This is how they lose

The state budget was unable to keep up with the demands of the cities. Instead of cutting city budgets, the VLF goes into effect and picks up what the state can no longer give to the cities. Arnold (can't spell his last name) ran on the promise of cutting the added fee. State law required him to find a way to offset the revenue loss to the cities. He did not do that and now the cities don't have the state money. There are several small towns in this state that get 40-50% of their budget from state money. Towns like Parlier, Orosi, Cutler, Alpaugh, Orange Cove, Squaw Valley ( not the ski resort) etc...This money from the VLF went to the cities and nowhere else. It did not go to pay raises for the representatives or the Gov. It did not go to anything but the cities. Without the money, most cities don't have a budget. They either get the money from the state or they get it from the state via VLF, either way they get the money. That is how they lose something they never had, or more correctly stated that is how they lose something they always had. The other thing about the VLF, it is putting them back to the level they were prior to the Davis administration. The budget goes bad and the VLF goes up by +/-300%. This is the rate that people payed in this state with or with out a budget crisis.

[velocity]

5. Does anybody think Gropinator will put them back in

Mmmmmm

[haele]

41. Nope, but I can see him trying to bring back the failed Snack Tax...

"Healthy Eating" enforced through Sin Taxes.
Anyone from California remember that little Dukmajan approved bit o' insanity that lasted a whole 8 months - an extra penny tax on processed foods with no real nutritional value? I seem to remember it brought in a good couple mill before the California population threatened mutiney and recall attempts against several Assembly congress-critters.

Haele

[BadGimp]

10. could???

I heard Jerry Brown (Mayor of Oakland) yesterday talking on an Los Angeles AM station saying they have already lost $80,000,000.

The level of pain this is gonna inflict is not apparent to most.

To my fellow Calafornans: Bend over, put your hands on your knees, and no we ain't got no Vaseline...

[reknewcomer]

12. Lost 80 meg?

How did they survive before the car tax was dreamed up?

[salin]

14. You are incorrect.

see my explanation above. THis has been in existence since Governor Pete Wilson. The level was set with an emergency trigger to raise in times of fiscal crises. Remember - he had a number of fiscal showdowns in the nineties where businesses doing business with the state had to use "vouchers" as money (that many banks did not accept) until the problems were solved.

This was not a newly created tax. Just triggered by the worsening economy - as it has been set to do... By Governor Wilson.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. It's REAL SIMPLE if one listens rather than argues a fallacious point

When Governor Wilson REDUCED the car tax from the level it was raised BACK TO buy Governor Davis, it was done so with a caveat that the car tax would resume to its previous level were local services to be threatened by a lack of funding. LOCAL services are dependent upon the state budget due to limited property tax revenues following the passage of Prop 13.

If you back up from the point you are arguing a moment, you will see that there are TWO options. INCREASE TAXES or CUT SERVICES. All services took a cut in LAST year's budget.

The difference between the current proposal and the reversal of the car tax is as follows:

The car tax was a FIXED cost and was a more progressive cost. You could rely on a sum certain each year and you paid consistent with the vlue of your vehicle I.E. a tax more in line with what one can presumably afford.

The current manner of financing the debt will lead to reductions in areas where local communities are ill equipped to DEAL with it.

The city of Anaheim is taking a 14 million dollar hit for the governator's plan which was ALL CAMPAIGN and NO PLAN.

Now rather than a FIXED cost to consumers MOST able to pay., we will have an UNKNOWN cost on the backs of ALL consumers regardless of their ability to pay.

BTW; How they survived prior to the car tax was revenue from the tech sector which was raided by fraudulent IPO practices from east coast banks, and from tax revenues from EMPLOYED people of which there are fewer now in California.

How do you propose a state of 36 million people protect themselves from criminals, fires, fund their education services, jails, prisons, roads etc?

[reknewcomer]

19. How do I propose a state of 36 million people...?

By streamlining the services, less waste, shared responsibilities, community service and good old fashioned hard work. Do more with less by working together and being more efficient. Throwing more money at a problems is the easy way out of a jam.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. Sorry. But as one who has worked at the policy level and knows some

of the accountability procedures (even though I do concede there are problem areas) I regard your answer as nothing more than euphamisms.

The increases in our budgets resulted in some areas from those programs being WOEFULLY underfunded during the Wilson and Duekmejian administrations.

BTW, in FACT, the car tax and the manner in which it FUNDS emergency services is a PERFECT example of of DOING more with less. It fund communities for their local needs while also pooling the resources for the state to respond to emergency services, thereby aiding duplication of equipment purchases and the like.

The city and county of San Diego have had several ballot propositions to create bonds or taxes to FUND their local emergenct services. Each time, they were voted down. Bottom line...San Diego will now get aid from the state and the federal government for a disaster which could have been avoided had they voted to improve their own emergency response.


BTW: At 36 million people, that's about 1/10th the population of the US. We do a good job of making education and healthcare available and we get far less back from the feds than we give them to pave the roads in other states, so maybe California could teach those states where nobody lives how to tax prgressively and get them off the federal dole :D After all...look at our budget...we have done it for a fraction of the cost :D

[pinto]

25. kick n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. thanks

and a belated welcome to DU :D

[yankeedem]

26. Sounds like neocon code words to me

streamline services = privatize

less waste= only serve wealthy constituents

shared responsibilities= lay off workers, make existing state workers work twice as hard

community service= everyone else can do charity work to make up for essential services

"old-fashioned hard work"= Something everyone else should do

becoming more efficient= destroy unions

Me thinks California is soon going to be subject to a corporate hostile take over.

[reknewcomer]

32. I'm sorry you feel that way

I see them as common sense actions and can't help you with the associations you have created in your own mind.

[pinto]

33. Hi reknewcomer. Would you list some specific examples

of how local governments could implement your ideas?. I think that would be helpful, thanks.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. Sorry but I already rebutted them in my post above

Again...the City and the COunty of San Diego decided to go the "rugged individualist route when it came to managing their emergency services. Each locality dealt with its own...don't want no big governement telling us rugged individualists what to do...as a result, the largest emergency ever to strike the area was poorly coordinated from the emergency response to the available equipment.

Please speak in specifics rather than generalizations and then let's see if your philosophy holds water or leaks like the Titanic.
:D

[reknewcomer]

37. No thanks

My mother taught me long ago that when someone has attributed to you malice when it doesn't exist that person has no willingness to understand your point of view and furthur explanations will only egg them on to insult you even more. The prejudice against my good intentions has soured the flavour of the moment. Your own "rugged individualist route" towards me should be enough to get you through any future malice I don't intend to bring upon myself. My mother was a very wise and good woman.

[yankeedem]

43. "Good intentions"

Don't balance budgets and provide essential government services.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

45. I don't think I mentioned you in the post above

And you rebutted none of my points :D

[shanti]

28. oh please

we're already down to the bone, and bleeding freely. now what??

[lolly]

18. How did we survive?

You mean before AWOL gutted the economy?

We survived on the tax revenues from a booming economy.

Also, please read all the posts on this before you comment--the "car tax" wasn't just "dreamed up" but has been part of an emergency response process for years.

[TrueAmerican]

15. Why should a tax on cars be used to be pay for

city services. I understand the emergency services like fire, police, and ambulance. But I don't understand why it is being used to fund social services like housing, health care, child care, and special ed schools.

Isn't that what Sales taxes and Income taxes are for?

Car tax should be used for roads, emergency services, and to develop new energies plus more fuel efficent cars.

Plus we are already paying out the butt in gas taxes every time we fill up.

P.S. Maybe it should be used for health care in areas there is a smog problem too. That would be acceptable to me.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. Income taxes are reduced currently due to the tech sector collapse

Prop 13 limits property tax revenues, and assembly Repubs nixed an increase in the sales tax.

Next?

[pinto]

24. sales tax and property taxes wre traditionally used to fund local

services. After Prop 13, which capped property tax increases, and left a loophole for commercial property tax interests (technical loophole that basically doesn't recognize commercial property's increase in value for tax purposes), local governments started coming up short of funds to pay for services. Registration fees helped close that gap. Recently we rode the dot com, high tech boom and state taxes covered costs, and we had a sizable surplus.

Now, cities and counties look for another big box store to help pay for services.....

You get what you (don't) pay for.

[Joe Lieberman]

23. This is terrible.

This is terrible. I can't stand Arnold.

[Democat]

35. I guess Arnold doesn't have to take responsibility for his own actions?

Just like Bush?

[Melsky]

36. I think the car tax was a good way to do it

I hate paying taxes, but paying according the the cost of the car you drive makes sense. People with Hummers pay a ton, people with beat up old VW bugs paid very little. It's a fair way to collect revenue.

[Zorro]

38. How will San Diego pay for those empty Chargers seats?

That's gotta be a big priority for the Republicans running the city.

Screw fixing the potholes and the broken water mains; they can't fall behind in paying billionaire Alex Spanos his due. It just might make him try to relocate the team or something if they don't fork over the money.

[joeunderdog]

42. what the fuck did they think was going to happen?

You get what you pay for. If you don't want to pay the money, you don't get the goods. It's the way it's always been.

This is what you want...this is what you get.

[Mountainman]

46. Maybe the cities will enact a local city tax

I remember when I lived in Ohio there was a city tax in Dayton. I did not like the car tax. My registration would have been around $700 next month and being unemployed I don't have the money. Without the tax it is around $300.

There has to be a better way to tax people without hitting them hard all at one time.