Guardsmen overrun at the Border (National Guard unit stormed while patroling the border)

[seriousstan]

A U.S. Border Patrol entry Identification Team site was overrun Wednesday night along Arizona's border with Mexico.

According to the Border Patrol, an unknown number of gunmen attacked the site in the state's West Desert Region around 11 p.m. The site is manned by National Guardsmen. Those guardsmen were forced to retreat.

The Border Patrol will not say whether shots were fired. However, no Guardsmen were injured in the incident.

The Border Patrol says the incident occurred somewhere along the 120 mile section of the border between Nogales and Lukeville. The area is known as a drug corridor. Last year, 124-thousand pounds of illegal drugs were confiscated in this area.

The Border patrol says the attackers quickly retreated back into Mexico.


http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/borderstory0104-CR.html

[TomInTib]

1. Wow

Just in case there are any doubts about our ability to control our borders.

I just got home, so what I want to know is....
Did Lou Dobbs carry this?

Somehow, I doubt it.

on edit:

The Border Patrol will not say whether shots were fired

OK, let me get this straight...

The NG was manning a really hot point, they were overrun by armed men and they want us to believe there were no shots fired?

There damned well have better been some shots fired.

[progdonkey]

11. Minutmen in sombreros, anyone?

I agree with you. The attackers are implied to be mercenaries working for drug cartels and they attack a fucking NG outpost without firing a shot? If you're going to be attacking the US Army, you're going to be using all the firepower you've got.

I'm not big on conspiracies, but who's to say that this wasn't just a bunch of disguised Minutemen making a spectacle to justify not only heavily militarizing the border but even possible incursions into Mexico?

[TomInTib]

19. And then we are supposed to believe the Guard fired no shots?

I don't think it was Minutemen, but smugglers who are telling us how it is gonna be.

[progdonkey]

28. I said I'm not much for conspiracies... ;-)

Yeah, the Minuteman conspiracy thing I mentioned is pretty stupid. It only works if you assume that the report of no shots is factual and that there was some collusion with the NG to put on a good show... but even then they'd want it to appear like shots were being fired and you'd wonder why they didn't just use blanks. (Die Harder was on a few days ago, I guess I'm focusing on the church scene too much.... ;-) )

It's much more believable that the Bush Admin would want to downplay how bad it would be with a heavily militarized border--"no shots fired" means "no big deal, move along now."

Of course, there's always the possibility that it's just a mixture of the two, and the "attackers" were Minutemen who were willing to risk being shot by NG because they'll do anything to force military action with Mexico, and the Bush Admin would cover up the extent of the firefight for the above mentioned reason, regardless of whether they became aware of who the attackers really were. (Yeah, I know, I should get some sleep. :crazy: )

[Miss Chybil]

59. If I remember right the guard was posted there without ammo.

This could have changed since they were first sent down there, but I thought they were there in a "support" role. I think you're right about it being smugglers and, I think, it was just a test run.

[Bacchus39]

64. yeah, that is what I hear

ridiculous isn't it? time to patrol our border. I don't think we need a fence but at least allow the people who patrol to do their job.

[rosesaylavee]

34. That is an interesting idea.

I wonder if this has ever happened in the past? If not, I would say your idea has some water. Hope some intrepid reporter can dig this story out - if there is one.

[Phrogman]

35. It couldn't have been the Minutemen

They could never have escaped like that lugging their lawn chairs and beer coolers.

[ohio2007]

37. There is trouble all over the northern Mexico

I saw a story about Mexican soldiers trying to retake a town run by drug lords or something.

[High Plains]

47. That would be Tijuana, now occupied by 3,000 federal troops

President Calderon sent them in this week to try to crack down on the cartels. About 300 people have been killed in drug prohibition-related violence there this year, including a bunch of cops. The mayor of Tijuana, Jorge Hank Rhon, is also in the midst of investigating every Tijuana cop for links to the cartels.

[UncleSepp]

52. MM get confused, throw Mexicans in Polish uniforms into Texas...

New Braunfels oompah band prepares to go into Mexico to defend mariachi brethren, story at 11.

(I'm silly today :-P)

[classysassy]

66. Simcox's army (minute hags&slugs)

let them guard the Iraqi borders,it appears they hate brown people,there are plenty of them in Iraq.

[texanshatingbush]

61. Lou Dobbs DID carry this story, on 5Jan2007.....

As a matter of fact, the QuickVote question was:
"Do you support a policy of withdrawal and retreat when our National Guardsmen are confronted with Mexican gunmen advancing across the border?"

The response was:
"Do you support a policy of withdrawal and retreat when our National Guardsmen are confronted with Mexican gunmen advancing across the border?

Yes 4% 259 votes

No 96% 6699 votes
Total: 6958 votes "

Here's the Lou Dobbs link:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

[izzie]

2. I can guess where the new troops should go.

--

[seriousstan]

3. You agree with stationing the military to secure the border?

[izzie]

31. Well I think it is more in tune for our safety than 6000 miles away

We have a lot of people coming in that should not and I am more worried that pay in jobs plus your tax payer money dished out to people who are mot Am. will be hurt than building blowing up. Military was only to protect the country not make a nut like Bush be some type hero in his own mind. And I believe he has put the Nat. Guard out any how. May I ask why my children must show a birth record to get a job but these out side people do not?

[bahrbearian]

33. But they do show a birth record , it may be forged though.

[izzie]

67. Well I guess that explains why it is harder to get them now.

Birth records.

[rgbecker]

4. Democrats! Time to rethink no fence talk.

Just started reading Buchanan's "State of Emergency". The guy may be a raving racist but the point is; can you really run a country without secured borders? This is an issue the Democrats can use to their advantage as it is the lowest well off economically that are most impacted and further, except for the immigrants who are dealing in the illegal worker markets, it is the legal immigrants that are most hurt by the illegals. Meanwhile the GOP base of "small businessmen" are the ones profiting from the ability to hire "great workers" (scared to death of doing anything wrong lest they get turned in) for wages so low that it's "work Americans won't do"!

[MadMaddie]

7. This true but you have to go after the leadership of Mexico

and force them to raise the standard of living in Mexico...

The next thing is seriously punish American employers who hire people who are not here legally...

It's not racism...and yes if that corridor is as dangereous as they are saying then put up armed military or specially designed border guard in that area....

It is a disaster waiting to happen...

[EFerrari]

45. A good first step would be for us to stop subverting their elections

like BushCo just did. Then, watch what happens to the standard of living.

We have it backwards. Our messing with their democracy keeps the people down.

[KEVINSDESK]

8. Securing the border first then review immigration

It always amazes me that people want to talk about the
immigration issue. Who should come in, who should not. How
many of who. No sitting president, past president, future
president. No Congressman or senator would go into a building
to give a speech, unless it was safe. Why is it that until 12
weeks ago we had catch and release policy for anyone caught
crossing the border illegally.  We found Sudanese money on
both sides of the border in Laredo, Texas. I'm not saying I
want our borders closed to immigration. 
I'm only asking the question.  Why is it that we continually
focus on what the media places in front of us and what they
tell us is important. Instead of the real issues facing this
country.  The United States, being 12th in the world as a
national power after the onset of World War II, inside six
months went to being a superpower. That was because of those
people that came into this country's legally as immigrants.
They were productive and supportive of this country.  We could
not have done it without them.  And that's what makes this
country so great. 

[Redstone]

17. I call bullshit! I just did a Google News search, and there are NO news reports of this.

This is not the place to spread rightwing urban legends.

And what the fuck would people be doing with Sudanese money there, anyway. It's be pretty fucking hard to SPEND ducbeetles, or whatever their durrency is called, in either Mexico or the US.

Redstone

[RetroLounge]

22. You got a link to that, buddy?

didn't think so.

RL

[DBoon]

42. I knew the dollar was doing poorly

but not so poorly that drug smugglers would prefer Sudan's currency!

[Richard Steele]

46. Pull the other one- it's got Sudanese bells on. nm

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. LOL.

:rofl:

[Redstone]

23. So, you're a Pat Buchanan fan? Are you SURE this is the right place for you?

Redstone

[havocmom]

27. While I am for securing borders (lived in southern AZ, know there's a war on there)

FENCES DON'T WORK!

Have Google Earth on the computer? Type in Douglas, AZ and hit Fly To. That gird of streets north of the border is Douglas. That part of the grid which extends south of the border, and is TWICE as big, is basically the same town but in a different nation. A few years back, they found tunnel connecting the two. The tunnel was big enough to allow pickup trucks. Drive into a garage in Mexico, drive out of one in Arizona. It there is one tunnel, seems likely there are more.

Fences aren't much help. Fixing the root causes for the migration would be a bit better. Economic security for workers on both sides and some serious crack downs on the fat cats on both sides who profit from the trade in humans and drugs would be a step in the right direction.

Fences? :snarf: Only good for the contractor building it, and weren't there reports that the company with the bid has a history of hiring (and profiting by) illegal immigrant labor?

Fences are just a photo op prop. Won't do a damn thing to make any body's border more secure.

[Mojorabbit]

29. I have no idea what to do about it

but if it is true that Mexico's oilwells are in steep decline and if that money is what has been supporting the country financially, then it is going to get a hell of a lot worse. It does need to be addressed and fast.

[DBoon]

41. The open border is Vicente Fox's escape valve

It allows him to pursue neo-liberal economic policies without having to suffer the consequences in an angry electorate - an electorate that almost put into power a left wing candidate (had it not been for some last-minute fraud)

[eagler]

43. We would be very foolish for not stopping armed "anyone"from

crossing the borders.

[Pirate Smile]

5. Well, I would certainly think this should become a big story. Wow.

[JohnnyLib2]

6. Feasible use of Guardsmen, or political pandering?

My relatives in AZ, who want tight restrictions, say the border patrols are sitting ducks in many areas, a disaster waiting to happen. This story sure speakes to that.

[AzDar]

9. Symbolic... Arizona is being overrun on a daily basis. n/t

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

10. were any of these "attackers" identified

I wonder?

where was blackwater


another new Pearl Harbor

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. They were attacked by gunmen?

But no shots were fired? What, were they mooned or somethign?

[seriousstan]

14. Where does it say "no shots were fired"?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. When they wouldn't say how many.

It's my amazing ability to read between the lines.

[Redstone]

25. So you KNOW military-speak, don't you? You're absolutely correct.

Or maybe you just know bullshit when you see it; either way, excellent riposte.

Redstone

[Redstone]

16. Ah, if it turns out that no shots were fired, what did the banditos run off the Guard guys with?

Habanero peppers?

This story REEKS of fish.

Redstone

[TomInTib]

21. Think about it logically, Redstone

A few Guard guys are hanging around the hut.

Making bullshit talk, bored out of their minds, 16s leaning in the corner.

A bunch of gnarly Mexicans show up, hollering and pretty much looking badder than anything those poor Guardsmen have ever seen.

So the Guard dudes light out.

Running bow-legged because they have shit their pants.

They lay low for a while while the Mexicans trash the joint and go back over the Rio.

Keep in mind that just because you haven't seen it anywhere else doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen.

One of these days, I will tell you some border stories. How it really works.

Kinda like driving from Boston to Bedford.

[Redstone]

24. Well, there IS that. I stand corrected. Especially if they'd found some of that

ditchweed that grows all over down there.

Redstone

[JanusAscending]

26. Uh,..'scuse me,...

I'm just an old widow woman who doesn't know much about shootin' an stuff, but If my memory serves me , wasn't it said when the N.Guards were sent down to man the borders that they were to be unarmed??? Just there for the "presence" and law officials were to handle all the shootin' an stuff????? (sorry , I 'm just giddy about today, and celebratin' it in my "hillbilly style"!!):silly:

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

30. I would think said gnarly Mexicans

would have made off with the 16's in that case.

Unless, of course they were not gnarly Mexicans at all

[Vidar]

18. Sounds like the "Poles" that invaded Germany, starting WWII.

[OKthatsIT]

44. LOL...sounds like the Guard was hiding and watching

[struggle4progress]

20. Wow. NO DETAILS WHATSOEVER. Where? When? Who? Zip!

Not even a spokesman's name.

"West Desert Region" doesn't even seem to occur on the Custom and Border Patrol website

No CPB news release on this: http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/newsroom/news_releases/

The major border security story today on most news services seems to be the California helicopter crash

Ya know, I'm not very impressed with this story

[lonestarnot]

32. The truth of this matter is, we will never know the truth in this case.

[rosesaylavee]

36. Check out the video news report at the OPs link for more info.

Our guys were armed but were ordered to retreat for safety reasons.

[MGD]

38. The Guardsmen probably had M-16s but it is unlikely that they had ammunition.

That's my opinion anyways. This would be consistent with my own military experiences. Live ammo is only passed out when you are supposed to be shooting at someone or something. These guys were not supposed to be shooting at anyone or anything. They were essentially armed with unwieldly clubs which aren't much good against a loaded gun of any kind. If they had been issued ammo, believe me, there would now be a major incident along the border instead of a minor incident which would be just fine with me incidentally.

[Speaker]

57. .

The Guardsmen probably had M-16s but it is unlikely that they had ammunition.

Last I heard, most would be unarmed, some would be allowed to carry sidearms. No rifles.

[MGD]

58. That's definitely possible too.

I was in the infantry where it was sacrilegious to go anywhere without your rifle but I can see a non-combat arms type of unit deploying to the field without rifles or ammunition. It makes no sense to me but I can see it happening.
spelling

[Pavulon]

63. NG

Engineers deployed domestically without weapons. We did it with hurricane relief here. MP units had sidearms and worked with local pd or state police as support.

However deployed overseas rifles were carried, with ammunition issued.

[Squatch]

68. NG on the border are issued M-16s and 90 rounds of ammunition

in three 30-round magazines. They carry the weapons at Arming Order 3 (AO3).

[catmandu57]

39. It sounds like a Milo Minderbinder operation

The syndicate has been hired to raid a NG post to cause a dust up, so, Haliburton can build defensive forts and dead eye can steal a few billion more.

[MGD]

40. Yeah I know. I heard Saddam Hussein has been spotted in Buenos Aeires too.

[redqueen]

48. ayup

just make the damn drugs legal already

damn

[rhett o rick]

49. Good comment. nm

[underpants]

51. Sounds like Polk's War too

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/mexican_war.htm

[rhett o rick]

50. How do you get "overrun" w/o firing a shot? What did the so called

attackers do to make the NG retreat? This story stinks to high heaven.

[hogwyld]

53. Ahhh, now I get it...

The first April fool's joke of 2007!

[Little Star]

54. Here is AP story and link

Gunmen Attack National Guard Border Patrol Site in Arizona
Friday, January 05, 2007

TUCSON, Ariz. — National Guard troops working at an observatory post near the Mexican border were forced to flee after being approached by a group of armed individuals, authorities said.

The event occurred about 11 p.m. Wednesday at one of the National Guard entrance identification team posts near Sasabe, said National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban.

He said the troops withdrew safely, no shots were fired and no one suffered injuries.

U.S. Border Patrol officials are investigating the incident and trying to determine who the armed people were, what they were doing and why they approached the post before retreating to Mexico.

The incident occurred in the west desert corridor between Nogales and Lukeville in the vicinity of Sasabe, Balaban said.

snip>
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,241783,00.html

[CreekDog]

55. Dispelling the notion about poverty and crime

Eliminating poverty may do something to benefit the crime rate, but I just don't buy it that improving the standard of living will make folks in the drug cartels stop overrunning their own and our own federal troops in favor of a middle class life.

What are some of you smoking?

[struggle4progress]

56. Here's another (non-Fox) AP version of the story

Gunmen force National Guard troops to flee observation post near Mexico border

ASSOCIATED PRESS
4:34 a.m. January 5, 2007

TUCSON, Ariz. – National Guard troops at an observation post near the Mexico border were forced to flee a group of armed people, who later ran into Mexico, authorities said.

The troops, who are not allowed to apprehend illegal border crossers, withdrew safely and no one was injured, said National Guard Sgt. Edward Balaban ...

U.S. Border Patrol officials are investigating the 11 p.m. Wednesday incident and trying to determine who the armed people were and why they approached the post near Sasabe, in the desert corridor between Nogales and Lukeville. Balaban said the troops didn't know how many people were involved because it was so dark ...

“We don't know if this was a matter of somebody coming up accidentally on the individuals, coming up intentionally on the individuals, or some sort of a diversion,” Daniels said ...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20070105-0434-borderthreat.html

The story doesn't suggest a particular fearsome encounter: the NG flee, the intruders flee, everybody flees.

Who they were, how many of them there were, how they allegedly forced the NG to flee, or how anybody knows they retreated into Mexico (given that nobody seems to know jackshit else about them) remain unresolved.

So will alien hordes conquer the US unless we line the border with miles of fence, with guns and tanks for good measure? Frankly, it's gonna take a lot more than this tale to convince me.

[tabasco]

60. Sounds like something from "F- Troop."

"Where Indian fights were colorful sights and nobody got defeated,
Where paleface and redskin both retreated!"

[Pavulon]

62. ROE?

They may not have been able to fire if they had the option to leave.

After the shooting of a kid with a 22 tending sheep the rules probably changed. I am sure that they could have fired small arms, machine guns, and grenades to great effect. 6 guys with m4's 1 guy with a saw, and a guy on a co-ax mounted m2 50 cal could cause serious damage to rag tag guys or mexican units working for narco money.

As a former guardsman we had that equipment at our disposal in an engineering unit. IFOR had strict roe and weapon incidents were low.

As a result of this story ROE will change. If this happens again expect a firefight where the opposing force loses people.

[outofbounds]

65. This sounds like a training exercise.

No shots fired? The NG retreats to a safe place? Gunmen approaching a group of NG defending the border. Sounds like an unannounced training mission that some one got wind of and reported. That or the "gunmen" were looking for some confiscated drugs. Why wouldn't they take the NG's weapons? It don't make sense.