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deminks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-04-07 11:35 PM
Original message
WP: White House Postponing Loss of Iraq, Biden Says
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/04/AR2007010401525.html

Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.), chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said yesterday that he believes top officials in the Bush administration have privately concluded they have lost Iraq and are simply trying to postpone disaster so the next president will "be the guy landing helicopters inside the Green Zone, taking people off the roof," in a chaotic withdrawal reminiscent of Vietnam.

"I have reached the tentative conclusion that a significant portion of this administration, maybe even including the vice president, believes Iraq is lost," Biden said. "They have no answer to deal with how badly they have screwed it up. I am not being facetious now. Therefore, the best thing to do is keep it from totally collapsing on your watch and hand it off to the next guy -- literally, not figuratively.

Biden gave the comments in an interview as he outlined an ambitious agenda for the committee, including holding four weeks of hearings focused on every aspect of U.S. policy in Iraq. The hearings will call top political, economic and intelligence experts; foreign diplomats; and former and current senior U.S. officials to examine the situation in Iraq and possible plans for dealing with it. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will probably testify next Thursday to defend the president's new plan, but at least eight other plans will be examined over several sessions of the committee.

Other witnesses invited for at least 10 days of hearings include former national security advisers and secretaries of state, including Brent Scowcroft, Samuel R. "Sandy" Berger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Henry A. Kissinger, Madeleine K. Albright and George P. Shultz.
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. Good! ... finally someone comes right out and says it!
The Bush administration is a bunch of little wimps, too chicken-hearted to take responsibility and admit what they have done, ... planning to get someone else to take the blame for it. Thanks, Joe Biden!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. You've got to be kidding
Edited on Fri Jan-05-07 01:33 AM by karynnj
John Kerry has ben saying this since April! He has said it on news show after new show, in editoials and in speeches.

Faneuil Hall, April 22, 2006 (35 years after a famous Senate speech)

"Half of the service members listed on the Vietnam Memorial Wall died after America's leaders knew our strategy would not work. It was immoral then and it would be immoral now to engage in the same delusion. We want democracy in Iraq, but Iraqis must want it as much as we do. Our valiant soldiers can't bring democracy to Iraq if Iraq's leaders are unwilling themselves to make the compromises that democracy requires.

As our generals have said, the war cannot be won militarily. It must be won politically. No American soldier should be sacrificed because Iraqi politicians refuse to resolve their ethnic and political differences.

Our call to action is clear. Iraqi leaders have responded only to deadlines-a deadline to transfer authority to a provisional government, and a deadline to hold three elections. It was the most intense 11th hour pressure that just pushed aside Prime Minister Jaafari and brought forward a more acceptable candidate. And it will demand deadline toughness to reign in Shiite militias Sunnis say are committing horrific acts of torture every day in Baghdad.

So we must set another deadline to extricate our troops and get Iraq up on its own two feet."
http://www.johnkerry.com/news/speeches/speech.html?id=16

Faneuil Hall Sept 9, 2006

This is the opposite of the administration's stand-still-and-lose strategy - -a clear alternative from a broken policy of "more of the same." Every time President Bush tells the Iraqis we will "stay as long as it takes," he is giving squabbling politicians there an excuse to take as long as they want. All of us want democracy in Iraq but Iraqis must want it for themselves as much as we want it for them. It's long overdue for the president to realize that no American soldier should be sacrificed because Iraqi factions refuse to resolve their ethnic rivalries and their competing grasp for oil revenues.

At each step along the way, the Iraqi leaders have responded only to deadlines-a deadline to transfer authority to a provisional government, a deadline to write a Constitution, a deadline to hold three elections. So we must set another deadline to extricate our troops and get Iraq up on its own two feet-- a clear deadline of July, 2007 to redeploy our combat troops. Make Iraqis stand up for Iraq -- and bring our heroes home.

We also desperately need something else this administration disdains: diplomacy. Real diplomacy -- a Dayton-like summit of Iraq and the countries bordering it, the Arab League, NATO, and the Permanent Members of the United Nations Security Council. Our own generals have said Iraq can not be solved militarily. Only through negotiation and diplomacy can you stem the growing civil war, and only by setting a deadline to get out can we force Iraq and its neighbors to take diplomacy seriously.

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/speeches/speech.html?id=12

FrHalf of the service members listed on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial died after America's leaders knew that our strategy in that war was not working. Was then-secretary of defense Robert McNamara steadfast as he continued to send American troops to die for a war he knew privately could not be won? History does not remember his resolve -- it remembers his refusal to confront reality.

Clark Clifford, the man who succeeded McNamara in 1968, was handpicked by President Lyndon B. Johnson because he was a renowned hawk. But the new defense secretary reviewed the Vietnam policy and concluded that "we cannot realistically expect to achieve anything more through our military force, and the time has come to begin to disengage." By the time he left office, he had refused to endorse a further military buildup, supported the halt in our bombing, and urged negotiation and gradual disengagement. Was Clifford a flip-flopper of historic proportions, or did he in fact demonstrate the courage of his convictions?

We cannot afford to waste time being told that admitting mistakes, not the mistakes themselves, will provide our enemies with an intolerable propaganda victory. We've already lost years being told that we have no choice but to stay the course of a failed policy."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/22/AR2006122201182.html
om Dec 24, 2006
"

In addition, there are many interviews - under multi media on Johnkerry.com, done in early December where Kerry explains what he has said since April. (The Blitzer one includes a great discussion on why we should not be the ones who divided the country.)

Remember that Joe Biden didn't vote for Kerry/Feingold.

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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Kerry said, Bush is "simply trying to postpone disaster so the next president will
....be the guy landing helicopters inside the Green Zone, taking people off the roof, in a chaotic withdrawal reminiscent of Vietnam."??? ... or actually said anything like that to indicate that the Bush strategy is to stay in the war until the 2008 election so the next guy will have to get us out and appear to be the one who lost the war? Obviously, everyone knows that's what Bush is doing, but did Kerry come right out and say it?

I'm running a little late right now, but why don't you highlight out of all your C&P where Kerry actually said something like that, because I don't see it right off from skimming that.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Of course he has not used those words
What he has said is:
"Half of the service members listed on the Vietnam Memorial Wall died after America's leaders knew our strategy would not work." and then in several slightly different ways said that that was where we are in Iraq.

Bush said in a speech late last year that we will be there until the next President is innaugerated. It is true that Biden references the fall of Saigon in 1975 - years after US combat troops had left - Kerry references soldiers dying when the administration knew the policy was wrong.
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Biden's statement was the lead/first segment on the Keith Olberman show, tonight ......
it was on the news today and ran on the crawlers. Without question, no one had previously made a statement comparable to this statement by Biden. Because of that and because Biden was spot-on, his statement was newsworthy.

That eliminates any need to continue replying to your line of discussion and so I won't.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Kerry rarely ever comes out and says ANYTHING that plainly. That's part of his problem
But just cause Biden didn't mince words in this one instance isn't going to get him nominated for 08.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. I like Kerry a lot but Biden is the king of zinger quotes & he's one of the most
Edited on Fri Jan-05-07 09:40 PM by wordpix
knowledgeable guys on the Hill re: Iraq War and the ME.
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. now THIS is fightning back GOP style
What a powerful analogy/visual:

"..trying to postpone disaster so the next president will "be the guy landing helicopters inside the Green Zone, taking people off the roof," .."

GO JOE!!

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Why not speak in terms of the soldiers
The image the half the names on the Vietnam wall were of people who died after we knew the policy was wrong.

The same guy in 1971, spoke of how each day someone had to give their life so that the President would not have to be the first President to lose a war.

How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. That is actually the 100% truth of what Bush is doing
it is so transparent. Thank you Biden for just saying it.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. Wow, amazing quote.
Oh, I'm gonna just LOVE the 110th! :loveya:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Go, Biden!
Of course, this means they won't invite you to be the tame Democrat on the Sunday morning shows anymore.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. Biden: keep (Iraq) stitched up to dump it on the next President
In his interview with Wolfie, Biden said that the whole idea behind the surge was to postpone the day the helicopters will have to land on the Green Zone to get our people out until the next President.

Biden also said that it was his personal judgment that smart people like Cheney and Rumsfeld already know that Iraq is lost.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-05-07 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. I am really looking forward to Biden's hearings. He will not let these criminals get off for free
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