Saddam Hussein Captured Alive Near Tikrit

[zubeneshamali]

BAGHDAD, Iraq - American forces captured a bearded Saddam Hussein (news - web sites ) as he hid in the cellar of a farmhouse near his hometown of Tikrit, ending one of the most intensive manhunts in history. The arrest, eight months after the fall of Baghdad, was carried out without a shot fired and was a huge victory for U.S. forces.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/iraq_saddam
---
He's been smoked out of his hole and looks like Santa Claus!

[impeach the gop]

1. Reminds me of Charlie Manson

n/t

[devinsgram]

2. Yeah, this man is in charge of the insurgent going on.

[Zuni]

8. it was probably set up before the war

many of these insurgents have huge ammo dumps, military grade weaponry and military training using things like mines, mortars, rocket launchers, explosives.
This was obviously planned before the war.

[MrTriumph]

3. Beware of what you wish for...

No doubt Bush is happy- for now. But what can SH say? That he had no tie to 9-11. That he had no WMD. That he really enjoyed being a friend to the US for many years. And that he really enjoyed shaking hands with Rummy all those years ago.

And what does Bush do with SH?

[caledesi]

9. MT - Great post.

Yeah, after the first Gulf War, nobody gave a sh*t about SH "torturing people" for years. But, oh, now he is an evil man....



Wonder what ol' Rummy thinks?

[underpants]

13. Hell US forces watched his copters go by headed towards the Kurds

NOt only were the Iraqis astonished that they let them keep the helicopters (and that they didn't come after Saddam then) but that the US forces just sat there as the flew by and attacked the Kurds who had been incouraged to rise up by Bush 1.

[blondeatlast]

67. You said it right, but . . .

the American people by and large won't ask those questions. Be prepared--we're gonna have to face another 4 years of Bushit.

Canada is looking better and better.

[tinrobot]

96. What does he do to SH?

He puts him in Guantanamo to shut him up until AFTER the election. Last thing he wants is this guy speaking his mind to the press.

[caledesi]

122. Exactly MT, we have a few questions for our "former" friend

[jonoboy]

4. you call this a 'huge victory" ??? 400 US dead

10,000 Iraqis, a devastated country..hate to see a failure

[nolabels]

5. Does he have the WMD's with him, or did he leave them with Rummy?

EOM

[conservdem]

6. THIS IS GREAT.

Awsome news. Thanks to the troops.

[arwalden]

55. Oh Yes. The End ALWAYS Justifies The Means...

... who ELSE can we pre-emptively attack? Those evil, evil men must be eliminated at all costs.

Let's attack North Korea, eh? What fun that will be!

-- Allen

[Hippo_Tron]

106. WTF are you talking about...

He was congratulating the troops for capturing the guy. He in no way said that it justifies our being in Iraq...

[Mushroom]

95. But

now the troops will need to -- more than ever -- watch their backs.

[AnnabelLee]

7. Now watch the old excuse about Saddam loyalists

& "deadenders" be abandoned, never to be brought up again & questioned by the SCLM.:eyes:

[zubeneshamali]

10. This is unbelievable!

The responses here almost seem to bemoan his capture. As if his capture will not lead to furthere development regarding the documented relationship between Hussein and alQueda and the programs for developing banned weapons.

Remember, Hussein will also face war crimes which will be levied by the ruling council. Assuming the number is accurate, 10,000 dead Iraqi civilians is nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dumped in mass graves.

His caputure is a good thing. The military has done its job well no matter what the political fallout will be.

[conservdem]

12. I generally agree with you. Again, this is GREAT.

[Tuttle]

20. Didn't we (W) bail on the world court?

I didn't think we were a part of that any more: something about a rich spoiled fuck saying "...I'd better call my lawyer!"

Tut-tut

[Robb]

22. Go down a little further in the thread

Maybe if you post it a third time, I'll agree with you. I maintain on Saddam, BFD.

[robbedvoter]

14. No bemoaning. I expect world peace and return of WTC from thin air

to follow. The weather will improve, the jobs will return, W will get smart and caring ans we'll all form a big circle and sing "feelings". We are finally free of the evildoer that was opressing all of us, non?
I do think the troops did good.

[soothsayer]

17. relationship between saddam and al qaeda?

oh, like the WMDs


riiiiiiiiiiight........

[Caution]

26. Why there isn't joy about this

While I am happy that this man will now pay for his crimes against humanity, this is a huge political victory for George W Bush. It was bound to happen sooner or later and frankly I'm glad it happened now. There is no excuse now not to simply pull the troops from Iraq (this wont happen, the main goal of this all along has been to establish a permanent military presence in the Middle East in a friendly country that isn't Israel. The Big failure was not realizgin just how hated the US is in these parts. I firmly believe that for teh US to survive as a democracy and for the COnsitution to survive, Bush MUST be driven from power along with his neo-conservatives cronies. The Republican party must go back to its roots as a bastion of conservatism instead of as a vehicle for Empire and fascism which is where Bush is currently pushing it. So ANYTHING that helps Bush is a bad thing.

[Muddleoftheroad]

32. I beg to disagree

Some things are inherent goods, even if they help *.

Today, I am more concerned with the long-term good that this murderer is brought to justice and that then Iraqis can finally rest that he won't come back.

[Robb]

40. Murderers abound

Mugabe slaughtered more than 20,000 minority Ndebele inhabitants of Matabeleland and Midlands provinces between 1983 and 1987. Genocide.

Nobody resting in Zimbabwe. :shrug:

[Muddleoftheroad]

50. I hate Mugabe

I would love to see action taken against him. In the meantime, the people of Iraq can rest now knowing that there is no chance that Saddam will ever come back and take over.

[conservdem]

121. Let's hope that others that want to follow in Mugabe and Suddam's

footsteps are taking notice and are deterred by this capture.

[SOS]

126. Meanwhile in Washington this week...

...a warm and stately welcome for the leader of a nation which:

Posesses huge stockpiles of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons
Routinely tortures dissidents
Commmits genocide and ethnic cleansing against a peaceful minority
Has millions of political prisoners in slave labor camps.
Is a one-party police state without elections or due process
Holds regular mass executions
Threatens it's neighbor with "the abyss of war"
Supported a neighboring dictatorship which slaughtered more than one million people
Runs over reformist demonstraors with tanks

Welcome to the White House, Prime Minister Wen Jiabao of China!

Bush wants to "rid the world of evildoers" as long as it doesn't impede corporate America's access to cheap labor.

[huckleberry]

43. I agree with you Muddleoftheroad!

If Saddam's capture starts to put an end to this horrible war (and I'm not sure yet that it will), it's a good thing!

[okieinpain]

51. too bad he will never be given a public trial. I would like to hear

his defense (or plee bargin). I really would have thought this would have happen closer to the election.

[jmcgowanjm]

56. our murderer/notice how SH's rise 1958 paralleled ours

Just another CIA client who got too successful and
had to be taken out.

I don't see the joy of Iraqis. Is celebration that
hard for CNN to find?

And Chalabi's the replacement? I don't think so.

[Tinoire]

57. They can rest so much that now they may have no reason not to rise up

against our troops. The specter of Saddaam Hussein coming back was one of the main reasons that more didn't do so. Now resistance may be seen as a win/win for them.

I fear they're may not fall for the crap about a kinder, gentler occupation no matter what Chalabi's men tell us.

[conservdem]

124. Muddleoftheroad, this is not the first time I have found myself in

general agreement with you.

[shanti]

93. interesting that it just happened NOW

of all times, when chimpy's poll numbers were dropping like stones. magnificent timing! :grr:

[conservdem]

123. If you believe "ANYTHING that helps Bush is a bad thing" even when

the event or thing is helpful to our country or people that have been oppressed, then I urge you to reevaluate your principals. Get a little optimism while you are at it. Our party should be one of optimism and attitudes like the one you seem to have do not promote optimism or persuade others to follow our lead.

[Fovea]

39. I am happy Saddam is in custody

but I have to be realistic. This will not stop the insurgency. It will probably strengthen it. It will not save the lives of the occupation forces, it will put them at greater risk. This will internationalize the conflict further, IMO.

Saddam is going to have to be gitmoed fast, because some of Bush's family skeletons are in his closet. Don't expect an interview exclusive with Saddam.

I personally think Saddam surrendered after negotiation.
Of course, anyone who takes Bush's word on anything deserves what happens to them.

[blondeatlast]

74. I definitely think you are onto something.

Our troops are at greater risk now.

Does this look like a man who could lead a coordinated insurgency from deep hiding? IMHO, not at all.

[jmcgowanjm]

47. And why not more celebrations in the streets

Maybe 150 counting the Communists( the pics
w/ the red flags, the biggest crowd BTW).
I saw one car and one truck and escorts.

There were more soldiers taking celebratory pics
than Iraqiis.

When the war is over you'll see the crowds.
Not Impressed.

[Tinoire]

58. Most of the Army quit over low pay so they couldn't order them to do it

and Chalabi's men are probably off somewhere surveying a pipe-line :shrug:

[Cheswick2.0]

52. more like 20,000 dead Iraqis

on our hands and we could have gotten this man without invading and occupying Iraq and killing 20k people.
W
BTW, nice right wing talking points coming from a democrat.

[blondeatlast]

71. I don't think anyone regrets his capture (I sure as hell don't), but

this administration has had the most incredible luck regarding timing. Nastiness about Halliburton, et al? No worries there--Saddam's been captured.

We need a left-eing (or even simply impartial) press, NOW.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

78. hmmmm

Protect Israel at all costs even if it means innocent American lives. Correct???

[mbperrin]

87. So now we can repeal the Patriot Act,

dismantle Homeland Security, leave Iraq in the capable hands of the now-completely-from-under-the-shadow-of-evil-tyranny Iraqi people, cut military spending by $120 billion, use the difference to provide universal health care for the American people and never have to see Bush* wearing articles of military clothing again????!!!


THAT IS GREAT! Thanks, Bushies, for a job well done. Your services are no longer needed. Get out and go home to the pig farm.

Gosh, how could I have been so blind??? HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN, OH HAPPY DAYS.....

[shanti]

91. war crimes??

please!!! there are several here in our own country that deserve to be tried for WAR CRIMES - first! get real! :grr:

[ParanoidPat]

98. "documented relationship between Hussein and alQueda"???

:wtf: Could you please cite a source for that "documentation"?
Seems the rest of the world, Bush* included, haven't found any real link between them. Do you watch Faux News or was that just sarcasm? :shrug:

[karabekian]

134. sure here you go.

<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/12/14/wterr14.xml&sSheet=/portal/2003/12/14/ixportaltop.html|Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam[br />]


"Iraq's coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious Palestinian terrorist.

Details of Atta's visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in US history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service."

This is the same Nidal who "killed" himself in Baghdad a few years ago. Two shots to the head. Sounds like Saddam didn't want him to talk.

[Zhade]

135. HAHAHAHAHA!

Even that idiot in the White House stated there was no link, and you try to pass THIS bullshit off as "evidence"?

You really should pay more attention to the AWOL, murdering TRAITOR'S own words. Sheesh! Even HE knows there's no link, and he has the IQ of a kumquat!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

116. There are no responses up to this point BEMOANING his capture

I read all the responses to this point carefully. MOST of them BEMOAN our presence in a war where it has yet to be proven that there was a clear and present danger, an imminent threat and many are skeptical after reading the article that he was orchestrating anything.

There are also no posts criticizing the military, so your post and the post that follows it seem to CREATE an agenda NOT present on the thread.

Furthermore, you are equivocating civilian casualties a bit early, given that civilian casualties continue to occur. We are talking 10,000 civilian casualties in a period of 9 months ( LESS THAN ONE YEAR) along with over 400 American casualties and a yet to be determined number of injured and permanently disabled. We are continuing to see civilian causalties although given that there has NOW BEEN AN order to STOP counting those casualties, they may be just as difficult to account for under the newly liberated Iraq as under Saddam.

This was an unjust war against a CONTAINED threat that has continued to bankrupt America while distracting our resources in the REAL war on terrorism and enriching the campaign donors of the Bush administration, many of whom had executives on the Defense Policy Board ( Trimere, Bechtel, etc), the war lobbying organization that vetted most of the flawed intelligence that created this war.

Tell me in five years that fewer civilians died than would have anyway after all the deaths that will continue...maybe then your point will be valid...until then, you are comparing several months with DECADES, and you have yet to view the so-called democracy that will follow. Therefore, all things are not yet equal enough for your comparison to be valid.

I LOVE MY COUNTRY and hate to see it act in a unilateral manner based on faulty intelligence without the cooperation of our allies.

[robbedvoter]

11. Good. Bring him to Hague, Clark will end the Milosevic trial.

let's hear all the dish, non?

[nolabels]

15. He will never make it to the Hague

The guy knows way too much about BFEE for the spooks to let that happen


http://www.weht.net/article.php?sid=146
(snip)

Whatever happened to Manual Noriega?

Real Name: Manual Noriega
Category: Politics
Claim To Fame: Panamanian general-turned-president. Good pal of Papa Bush when he ran the CIA, in fact they were such good friends the CIA paid Noriega $USD 100 thousand per year to be a "CIA Asset" in Panama. They were still good pals even after the DEA figured out he was a drug dealer in 1975.
He made other friends in Washington, during the Reagan presidency he was good pals with Oliver North, and Panama was a weigh station for illegal arms on their way to the Contras and illegal cocaine on its way back to the US.
Nobody minded any of this until he started refusing to provide assistance against the contras in Nicaraugua (which was illegal anyway). At which point he became the current Worst guy since Hitler and after Papa Bush demonstrated his meekness half-backing a failed coup in 1988, the US invaded Panama in 1989, killing about 1000 Panamanians in order to bring Noriega back to "face the music".
(snip)

[robbedvoter]

29. True. But I can ask, cant I?

I hope Clark will too.

[nolabels]

37. I thought to ask about my vote a while back too, but found more of .......

the same. Even with more fraud and losing by 500,000 votes or more they still installed the chimp. I am not going to worry, I am going to keep asking the questions too. They have never come with any of the correct answers yet, so I figure we are all mostly batting a 1000

[Zhade]

136. 3,000 civilians.

I know - my father flew on one of the AC-130 Hercules gunships.

A sad thing to know about your father. They used him, just as they keep using soldiers to this day. And with Hussein's capture, and the knowledge that he will not return, the attacks on soldiers by the resistance in Iraq will skyrocket, and even more civilians will die. :cry:

[bemildred]

60. C'est vrai.

[ConcernedCanuk]

16. I don't believe it - it's too pat - and what - no film crew ???

. . the USA had LOTS of footage for the Lynch "rescue"

. . Personally - I am still of the opinion that it is a double

. . the USA would never allow the REAL Saddam to talk to anyone, - he has more dirt on the USA and it's WH illegal antics ( e.g. supplying WMD's to himself and others) than any scandal rag could even dream about.

The REAL Saddam will never be allowed to speak out to the media as long as the BFEE has any say about it, and IF it is the REAL Saddam, he will undoubtedly end up suffering with the same (drug-induced?) amnesia that Jessica developed.

Sorry, the BFEE and previous Administrations have told too many lies, and if the pResident is able/willing to pull off a massive deceit to the world so that he can sneak over to parade around with a rubber turkey - -

'nuff said

USA's WH, DoD, CentCom, and anything remotely related has lost all credibility in my mind.

Let a team of Internationally selected doctors by the UN and nations that OPPOSED this invasion perform their own DNA tests -

THEN

- I might give this "capture" of Saddam some validity

Just My Cynical Canuk Opinion

[nolabels]

24. With all them doubles running around, this will have to be done

who would beleieve any of it after all the WMD Lies, 100-200 billion, tens of thousands of lives,trashing of the US image around the globe all to capture this former buddy of BFEE, some things are priceless I guess

[zubeneshamali]

28. I had the same question in the back of my mind...

Obviously, DNA will be used so this is a moot point. They should have enough scrapings from his dead sons to make identification positive. (Unless you think that the thugs killed at the last stand were also body doubles for Qusay and Uday).

No reason to send him to the Hague. They have enough on him in his own country to deal with him. Saddam will never see daylight again.

[Sterling]

101. Moot point?

That the international community will have access to Saddam? Get real. I know right wingers think sheding light on these cockroaches is a bad Idea but don't you think we need to kinow what Saddam knows?

Do you trust the Bush administration to tell you the truth? If not then you should want an open trial for Saddam.

[Fleshdancer]

88. Fool me once with a fake turkey in Iraq, shame on you....

fool me twice with a fake turkey in Iraq, shame on me. ;)

[blondeatlast]

77. I think it's him all right, but I'm still shaking my head over the timing

What happens to the Halliburton story now?

The only thing SH will "tell" the US is where the WMDs "are" . . . mark my words.

[shanti]

97. yes "excellent" timing!

and the press won't stop with the fawning now until at least after christmas. it will be nauseating :puke:

[KeepItReal]

18. Who gets the $25 Million for "bringin him to justice"?

Someone's gonna have a *very* Merry X-mas for turning SH in.

They probably won't be able to remain in Iraq, though. "Dead-enders" and "foreign fighters" will be gunnin for the person who turned SH in.

"Afghanistan welcomed news of Saddam Hussein's capture Sunday, but said it was too early to say if it might lead to stepped up efforts to find elusive al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden "

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=5&u=/nm/20031214/ts_nm/iraq_saddam_afghan_dc

To early to "roll out the next product", eh Karl Rove?

[HereSince1628]

19. This is good news. It had to happen before the US could leave

And it makes it a lot easier for the Iraqis to move to self-rule without the anxiety of the return of Saddam.

Whether this will break insurgiencey is unclear. Ho Chi Ming died and the Vietnam war kept right on going.

The capture of Saddam doesn't in itself validate the war, or the Bush/Neocon doctrine of pre-emptive war, and arrogance international relations.

We will have to see if having captured him Saddam will reveal hiding places of weapons of mass destruction, etc.

But, that said, it is good news.

[jmcgowanjm]

61. Ho Chi Minh died of heart failure on September 3, 1969, in Hanoi

Ho answered: "The Vietnamese people will never give
way to force, it will never accept conversation under
the clear threat of bombs."
In his testament Ho wrote: "All my life, I have served the Homeland, the revolution and the people with all my
heart and strength. If I should now depart from this
world, I would have nothing to regret, except not being
able to serve longer and more. When I am gone, a
grand funeral should be avoided in order not to waste
the people's time and money."

Iraqiis have studied Vietnam.
What have they learned.

[Danocrat]

21. That's great but

I haven't yet heard from the media or from the administration that he would be prosecuted for his terrorist attacks against NYC and the Pentagon. I wonder why that is?

[Robb]

23. (spits coffee)

LOL! :hi: Welcome to DU!

[Danocrat]

25. Thanks

for the welcome

[DemonFighterLives]

33. Yeah, Questions remain

Welcome Danocrat.
I'm not overly excited about this, but glad he is Alive. Does anyone really think that he will speak or any of us will hear what he has to say. I would rather hear him speak than our very own leadership. This is how far they have pushed this illegal war and PNAC agenda. I suppose this clears the way for the invasion of Syria. :freak:
Can someone help me with my thoughts?
Oh another thing, better now than right before the elections. Amazing how this comes on the heels of the outing of Halliburton thefts.

[blondeatlast]

79. Welcome to DU! A grand post, BTW.

Glad you found us, and we you.

:toast:

[RandomKoolzip]

27. OK, good news.

Now.... what about all the lost jobs here in the US, What about the shady, "sexed-up" intelligence used to GET us into this war in the first place, What about Halliburton's role in both the destruction and rebuilding of Iraq, What about the goddamned WMD's, What about The cutting of veteran's benefits, What about the Patriot Act, What about the stepped-up destruction of the environment during this administration, What about the lack of a living wage, What about the lack of health coverage for millions of Americans, What about the tens of millions of us who are forced to work two full time jobs just to make rent, What about the tax cuts for the rich when the rest of us are struggling, What about the lack of political balance in the major media outlets, What about Diebold and BBV, WHat about Bechtel, What about James Baker, What about the tens of thousands of civilians killed over there to get ONE guy, What about the 300+ US soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, What about the stalled investigation into the reasons behind the 9/11 attacks, What about the Valerie Plame scandal, What about the culture of hatred and intolerance that is building and spreading across America, What about Halliburton overcharging the government, What about bringing the troops home and making sure they're safe, What about the mainstream media being owned and operated by Bush cronies and contributors, What about all the soldiers over in the desert still being attacked, What about those 16 words (remember them?), What about teachers in this country getting paid about as much as short order cooks, What about Prescott Bush's Nazi connections, What about Afghanistan, What about the fact that rich white kids don't have to die for their country but dark-skinned kids and poor whites DO, What about the Saudis and their ties to the Bushes, What about Michael Powell (the son of Colin POwell) being the head of the FCC and using that power to stifle any hint of dissent, What about the increasing hegemony of madia outlets serving up only one political perspective, What about Cheney's secret energy meetings, What about those damned WMD's again, What about Bush asking the Iraqi resistance to "Bring it on" to his troops, What about the rich getting richer and never sharing, What about the stalled economy, What about the reasons why it took this goddamned long to find this asshole, and what about Osama?

Is this really a time for rejoicing?

[conservdem]

34. "Is this really a time for rejoicing?" Yes.

Can you at least rejoice for the Iraqis?

[RandomKoolzip]

38. It seems a pyrrhic victory, at best.

Plus, the Iraqis are more concerned about the continuing occupation- Saddam means little to them right now, in the dejected, angry state they're in.

The crowds in those pictures on TV you're seeing are not very large (plus, they're carrying USSR flags; what in the heck is THAT all about?!?)- probably the same "bought" handful of people used in that statue-toppling PR stunt. I see more populous crowds when they show pictures of the Iraqi protests against the US being there.

Yes, Saddam is an evil man. There are lots of 'em in this world.

I'm really tired of being manipulated by the conservative media to feel a certain way about something, when I don't feel that way in my heart. I get the impression that they're expecting us all to get really happy about this...but at what cost? Re-read my post above, and see if you can find a silver lining in THAT laundry list.

[conservdem]

64. IMO overall I doubt that Iraqis were more concerned with the occupation.

I also doubt the crowds were bought. I think they are truely happy at this news.

I agree that there are lost of evil men in the world. I hope some are seeing what has happened to Saddam and deterred from criminal and terrorist acts.

As to your laundry list, I agree that many of the things you list are problems that need to be addressed. Soon we can get more focus on them now that this is one less problem.

[Sterling]

105. Um so the war is over.

Please make sure you check back with us in a few months to tell us thhe war is over and getting Saddam solved everything. This spin again will be what snatches defeat from victory fopr right wingers. They can't be happy with the capture they have to make claims that they cannot back up. They raise expectations only to let everyone down when reality sets in.

I encourage you to keep pushing this line for the right wing. It will only help us get rid of Bush in 04.

[conservdem]

110. I don't know if you are right about the war being over.

Hopefully soon you will be right.

I hope my voice and/or writing will help us get rid of Bush in 04. At least we are in agreement with that.

[lostnfound]

131. Cheers to the troops.

And get Bush out of the White House.

Based on your moniker I'd say we're on opposite sides of the spectrum but at least we agree on those two things above. Welcome, conservdem, we need the full range of Dems here... as long as you feel the same way as I do (at least about needing the full range here)! ;)

[conservdem]

132. Thanks and we are in agreement on those two things--

Congratulations to the troops and election of a Dem. I think we also probably agree that all dems can speak here.

[arwalden]

66. "There are lots of 'em in this world." ... Exactly!!

Who ELSE can we illegally...uh... pre-emptively attack? Certainly there must be SOMEONE else that we can topple. Oh! Hey! How about NORTH KOREA???

Then we can be "happy for the North Koreans" too.

A good war will ALWAYS help to distract people's attention from all the other problems. Even if it is illegal. Even if it is baseless... this war is all but over. Time to attack someone else.

Let the killing begin.

-- Allen

P.S. The conservative media in this country makes me sick too. So too do the so-called democrats who think that the end justifies the means and who think that this war has all been worthwhile. It's disgusting.

[caledesi]

127. Great post RKZ! Enjoyed your "long" one as well. Good points.

I copied your laundry list.

I am also tired to see so many people eating up this crap. BFD, we got SH. Does anyone actually think that the killing will stop because they captured him? Uh, no. Oh, that's right the reasoning is that the Iraqis were still afraid of SH, like he was some kind of superman. The repugs love fear. It controls people so well.


Hey Rummy, while you were shaking hands w/ SH, he was STILL an evil dictator torturing people and you KNEW it!

[Tinoire]

65. U mean Chalabi's men? The pro-occupation please destroy our country ones?

AH, I keep forgetting. War is a good thing. War is peace! Have a first war, starve and sanction for 10 years, litter the country with depleted uranium, have a second war, kill innocent people, destroy the infrastructure, loot their resources...

You've got a point. Let's all rejoice! Let's join www.firethistime.org/extremedeformities.htm in rejoicing.

:party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

[mbperrin]

90. Rejoice for the Iraqis?

Why? Because we set them up to be ruled by someone for 40+ years and then destroy the country to be set up to be ruled by someone else of our choosing for the next 40?

I want you to tell each and every Iraqi mother whose child has been killed by US bombs and bullets in the last year that she should be happy! Hell, mail 'em a flag and a medal, eh?

Their lives will not change. Their oil is going to be stolen. When they have nothing left that we want, we'll go. Not before. Yes, they should yuk it up!

And so should we. Bankrupting a nation for the exclusive few at the top is after all, the intention of the founders of the country.

[Sterling]

104. Great post

I also think there should be a rule that bans people who claim Saddam and 9-11 are connected. Those people are too stupid or dishonest to thrive here with their Faux News point of view of the world.

[mbperrin]

109. I do, too!

Truth through repetition is their motto!

[Sterling]

102. Not sure why they should be happy

Things don't seem better in Iraq since we showed up. I will be happy for Iraq when they are truly free. Same goes for the US. You can throw a party if you like, most of us still see work to be done.

[Tinoire]

59. Certainly not. But certain people will

Watching the CNN footage not many people are rejoicing. Most people in the back-ground are milling about going about their daily lives- God only knows what thoughts are in their heads.

Same thoughts as in mine? No rights? Who will stop the BFEE? How will I put food on the table?

Ah, CNN just laid my fears to rest... Said "people are quietly celebrating at home". That explains it all.

Silly me.

[RandomKoolzip]

72. Yessirree Bob!

As I go to my chiropractor to get him to fix my broken back, broken from so much hard labor, I will hand him my entire paycheck because I have no insurance, and must forego groceries...but I will be smiling as I do it because that evil man Saddam has been captured! Whoopty-shit!

[jmcgowanjm]

73. Add this RandomKoolzip &we can prosecute at the Hague

The imperial grand strategy is based on the assumption that
the US can gain "full spectrum dominance" by military
programs that dwarf those of any potential coalition, and
have useful side effects. One is to socialize the costs and
risks of the private economy of the future, a traditional contribution of military spending and the basis of much
of the "new economy." Another is to contribute to a fiscal
train wreck that will, it is presumed, "create powerful pressures to cut Federal spending, and thus, perhaps, enable the Administration to accomplish its goal of rolling back the
New Deal," a description of the Reagan program that is
now being extended to far more ambitious plans. I(author)have
devoted a great deal of time and energy, and have been
willing to face some personal risk, in attempting to defend radical nationalist movements in the Third World from the subversion and violence of the industrial democracies, but without illusions as to their character.

[RandomKoolzip]

82. Yup. Sounds to me like we "captured" the wrong guy....

Saddam was evil. He was a brutal, murdering fuck. But there is shit going down in our country right now we have to take care of before we start living under a Saddam-like dictator.....

[blondeatlast]

80. I don't see any "rejoicing" on this thread--and I know

you aren't confusing this with Freeperville. Are you?

[RandomKoolzip]

85. I'm not sure I understand your post.

My message as not directed at any certain person on this board, but was meant as a general comment about the sorry state of the US at this moment. I meant no disrespect to any poster here.

[davekriss]

113. Nice rant, random! (n/t)

[AngryAmish]

30. All smiles, but

Those Repub assclowns wills use these pictures over and over. I bet his show trial will start about a week before the election next year. We will be beat up as unpatriotic when those jerks are trying to destroy the country. Don't the people realize Bush is Hitler?

[Muddleoftheroad]

35. He ain't Hitler

He ain't even close. Every time someone says that, it destroys our credibility.

By the way, since when do Amish call people, "assclowns?" :)

[number6]

119. of course not, he's a cheap imitation

and Hitler could form a complete sentence.

and these people could make even the Amish call people assclowns.

[alwynsw]

46. OT, but comments such as that are what we don't need

Like him or not, in no way is shrub even close to Hitler - or Stalin. I've seen him referred to as both many time on this board. I do understand your anger - you're not alone.

Overkill is sometimes a good thing. Wild comparisons such as these only hurt the cause because anyone with an IQ over 60 knows that shrub's level of bad doesn't even come close to these despots.

Realistic arguments work. Wild accusations only erode our credibility.

[conservdem]

49. Excellent points.

[blondeatlast]

84. Bush is no Hitler--if he was, you would have disappeared

after that post.

I despise the BFEE, but I have some perspective. All we need is for that post to be quoted in the media--as many have been.

[Sterling]

107. Give him time most Americans liked Hitler

Until it was too late. In fact our Hitlers grandpa helped put Hitler in power and only stopped helping him after he was ordered to do so in 1943.

Please dont pretend to understand History if you can't see the similarities between our current government and evil regimes from history. There are too many. No two situations are exactly the same yes but, Bush is the closest to Hitler we have ever seen here and that is too close.

[Ellen Forradalom]

31. If it's true, it's good news

Removing that uneasy feeling about a return of Saddam can only help stabilize the situation there.

However, I've learned to reflexively doubt pronouncements from this administration (habitual lying does breed distrust) so I'll just see how it all shakes out.

[NashVegas]

36. Great News - Let's Hope Shrubbie Doesn't Blow It

If this was unstaged, props.

But if BFEE doesn't negotiate w/him to get his guys to cease-fire, guess what? It's not over.

from the BBC story -

Meanwhile, violence continued in Iraq on Sunday, with at least 17 people killed and 30 wounded after a powerful car bomb exploded at an Iraqi police station in Khaldiyah, about 35 miles (60 km) west of Baghdad.

[durutti]

41. A few implications...

A few thoughts on the implications of his capture:

1. His capture could either mitigate or strengthen the Iraqi resistance. If he was really directing and supplying the bulk of the attacks, then they may decrease. His capture might also have the effect of making the Iraqis more tolerant of their occupiers. On the other hand, his capture could anger those parts of the resistance that are loyal to him, thus further inciting attacks. Also, if Iraqis think that there's no danger of Saddam coming back, they might be more inclined to get rid of their occupiers.

2. Saddam's capture will undoubtedly have a positive impact on Bush's approval rating.

3. The U.S. should get out now. With Saddam Hussein captured, we can't use the excuse that he'll retake power if we leave.

[dreamvision]

42. So now we can bring the troops home

Since smirking Bush got his dream come true, now he should bring the troops home.

[Vis Numar]

44. Take a closer thought:

"Saddam would be put on trial, Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmad Chalabi told Reuters. A tribunal system for Iraqis to try Saddam and fellow Baathist leaders was set up only last week and U.S. officials say it could make use of capital punishment."


OK, so they found himm in a hole, hiding, or captive? So, the tribunal system is set up a week earlier, and is this the first time I've seen Chalabi's name in print as the INC "leader"? Yep.

Think about it, absent the spin.

[jmcgowanjm]

81. I noticed that also, Chalabi front and center

And he is still wanted by Jordan for Embezzlement.

[blondeatlast]

86. Hmmm . . . how conveeeennnniiieeeennnnttttt . . .

I keep wondering how tolerant Chalabi is of dissent????

[ignatius]

120. You are right, the tribunal for war crimes was established just

last week. A few days later, Saddam is found and will most likely be the first tried for said war crimes. Wlii these trials be transparent, it would be most interesting to hear some of the parlays betwen Saddam, Bush I and Rummy.

Now, of course, our military should be free to capture Osama whats-his-name? And, of course, the made in America anthrax killer.

[supernova]

45. Does anyone else

think he looks like Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber?

[slackmaster]

53. Just about any man over 40 looks like Ted Kaczynski

If you allow him to get to that state of dishevelment.

Even Al Gore looked liked the Unabomber when he let his beard grow out.

[bvar22]

100. Looks like Walter Matthau to me!

*

[meti57b]

48. Was this worth American lives? $300+billion? Has it made us more secure?

My answer is NO!

Throw the usurpers out of the White House!

[shepard]

68. The soldiers honor us with their lives

Freedom is freedom no matter where it happens.As a Native American I know about the opression of a group of people.I have generations of my people who handed down the tales of horror about what happened ,and unless you lived it you will never understand the true meaning of freedom because you have never been without it.But this is my land, my country,no matter who sits in the White House,and I will always defend it because it is the place of my beginning.We may dislike the President,but do not let your dislike for him also turn into a tearing down of this land.Cherish it forever and protect it,for as bad as things are sometimes,it still allows all of us to express what we think ,I honor those soldiers who have died in this war,for they honor us with our freedom,and there is no greater gift to give than that.Ahe'ee Nehemah

[Sterling]

108. Give it a rest please

Bush is not our country. Of all people you should know that. And what does Saddam have to do with protecting what we killed all the Indians for anyway?

[shepard]

133. Thank You

You are correct.Bush is not our country.That is what I stated in my last post.But Bush will not be there forever,but this country will keep going long after we are gone.What I am saying is,separate the man from the country.We don't like Bush that is good,but in our dislike for him, do not carry that same dislike to the country.I hope you understand what I am trying to say.Ahe'ee Nehemah

[alarimer]

83. no

the capture of this guy will not make us more secure because he was not responsible for 9/11. Bush and the other evil assholes will continue to lie about this and the American sheeple will continue to believe the lies and we will have 4 more years (or more) of these thieves and liars!! This is what upsets me the most about this. I care nothing one way or another for Hussein but Bush will use this to win reelection. The timing is suspicious though- just when his approval ratings seemed to be in freefall. Hmmmm. Gotta wonder if this was a setup.

[BiggJawn]

54. He's staying with Dick Cheney right now. NPR says so.

They keep saying that Saddam is being held in a "Secure, undisclosed location"....

I'm glad they finally nabbed his ass, but if they think all of Iraq is going to trade their bombs for flowers...Well, what's that saying about "Fool me twice..."?

BBC is bringing in an army of "Astroturf installers". I haven't yet heard Saddam accused of shooting down Amelia Earhart and killing Cock Robyn, but it won't surprise me when I do. right now, they're playing a sound-bite of Chimpy claiming that Saddam has WMD, has ties with A-Q, and is a threat to the world.

Who's got editorial control of Bush House today? Nr. 10 Downing?

Now maybe they can turn some attention to looking for that other guy, what's his name? Usama Been-Forgotten?

[davsand]

62. Will he "admit" the WMD are in Syria?

I really want to see DNA testing on this one to confirm identity, but my first thought on hearing this was to wonder if the spin will be that "under interrogation" he tells them the WMD were sent to Syria just so we can proceed into another invasion.

I doubt he'll be allowed to talk to anybody if it is the "real Saddam." If so, look for a very speedy trial and immediate execution with no public statements allowed. He's got WAY too much dirt to ever be allowed to spill any of it publicly.

If it IS the real Saddam, they have to keep him alive, however, at least till there is something resembling a trial. I doubt they can ever pass him off as killed attempting escape.

Laura

[gmoney]

63. Announced just in time for the Sunday News shows... <nt>

[leesa]

69. Without a shot fired?? OK I guess those tens of thousands of Iraqis

and the 450 or so American soldiers don't count! What an immense waste and a complete failure of American foreign policy! I hope Saddam blows the lid off the Bush Crime Family.

[alarcojon]

70. Why I am conflicted about this

assuming that is is really him...

I am looking to a world with peace and justice - we all are. The capture of Saddam Hussein is a huge victory for the Iraqi people, and as such I am glad the slime was captured. Our troops have done a great job of carrying out their orders. Of course, we don't know how great a victory it is for the Iraqi people until they (we?) actually put in place a democratic government. The jury is still out on that. The jury is also still out on whether the resistance will increase or decrease, as well as on how soon the U.S. pulls out.

But even being optimistic on my last couple of points, this capture strengthens Bush's hand, including his chances for re-election. And that is about as bad for world peace and justice as it can get.

[Whoa_Nelly]

94. Am also skeptical

Have been going into back news stories re: SH, and the photos don't match...the eyebrows have a different arch, the nose is not quite the same. SH had many doubles. Also, if he were hiding out in the basement of a farmhouse, where were the insurgents to protect him? Why had no one come forward to out SH and the location of his hidey-hole when time and again there have been "good Iraqis" who "secretly" tattled on others to the US all out of the sympathetic goodness of their hearts, (or as the media spin would have us believe...). No gunshots fired in the capturing of SH? I distrust our government so much that I would more easily believe that this is the ShrubCo Xmas gift to the 'Muriken sheeples that will no doubt further "boost the economy" that he will take credit for, and provide a happy Xmas for one and all. All this certainly takes the heat off BoyGeorge and only lends credibility to his criminal war based on lies.

[DemonFighterLives]

129. I was wondering

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut, but the bearded man had several growths on his face and the clean shaven man didn't or at least you couldn't see them. Also the clean shaven man has a darker and thicker moustache. Amazing that the other stories say fake beard and the briefing this morning said they shaved him.
Another thing, why didn't Saddam who had money and power get out of dodge and go to somewhere where he may be able to get his side of the story out. I have very little hopes for anything resembling a trial.
Always something fishy! Hard to believe this is all for real and Saddam must be guaranteed free passage somewhere by Rummy and the boys.

[Whoa_Nelly]

103. Welcome to DU, alarcoeg!

Glad to have you here! :hi:

[moondust]

75. Will this have any effect on the war on terra?

Good to see an unrelated bad guy go down (though not worth the cost considering there were alternatives) but what effect will it have on terrorism?

[Lorien]

76. Good!

Maybe this will focus the medias attention back on the real reasons for this conflict (hint: it wasn't Saddam or his "WMDs"). Capturing him alive is probably the worst thing that could happen to *-it means we might get some answers! I'm sure they'll try to turn the whole thing into a huge victory for *, but the fact remains; this has nothing to do with "the war on terra", and maybe we'll be discussing that now, instead of wacko Jacko or some other pointless diversion.

It would be great if it also meant that we would soon be out of Iraq, but I fear that isn't the case. It seems to be a magnet for extremists now, and that has little to do with Saddam.At least the iraqi people won't worry now about Saddam coming back into power, but there are some muslim extremist groups out there (like the Taliban) which are even worse than he ever was -especially for women! Keeping them from gaining popularity will be the biggest battle, and that will happen only by winning "hearts and minds".

[Fleshdancer]

89. I'm definately glad he's not murdering people anymore

I do find it odd though how gentle the military doctor was handling him during that short video clip. Had he been a black man pulled over by the police in THIS country, he might be dead right now.

[leftofthedial]

92. by what authority and for what crime

is he being held?

[GoBlue]

99. This is pathetic

Hundreds of Iraqis flooded the streets of Baghdad.

In a city of what, 5 million, this is the best the mental retards at CNN could can up with.

[Judi Lynn]

111. Yep, you're right.

They also got stuck during the time I was looking, on the image of a middle aged man clowning around dancing in the street.

They are ALWAYS keen on portraying ANY people in other countries as retarded, or not sensible. Our propagandists don't understand only the dimmest Americans really buy their product. The rest of us look down on them with complete disgust.

I think the Iraqiis MAY just hope it means the U.S. will clear out now. Fat chance, I'm sure.

[ramapo]

115. Maybe not

Just think how happy you'd be if the BFEE was gone forever

[UpInArms]

112. related article: From feared ruler to cowed prisoner

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=421953§ion=news

DUBAI (Reuters) - He was grubby, dishevelled and appeared compliant.

Those who loved or hated Saddam Hussein could not believe that the man who for decades terrorised his people and neighbours could surrender to U.S. troops without a shot fired.

On the contrary, the Iraqi dictator appeared submissive and obedient in a videotape showing his capture by U.S. soldiers.

<huge snip>

Others were appalled that U.S. forces used the footage to humiliate Saddam.

"The cheap manner in which they showed Saddam made me pity him when I once thought he was the lowest of the low. But I now think America is lower," said Saudi national Sultan Mahmoud.

...

[54anickel]

117. Seems they got quite a bit of mileage from that video in two completely

different directions.
Pity for Saddam and shame on America vs.
"humiliating for every Arab and Muslim" as stated in the article.

[Rainbows]

114. ODDS ...ARE ...

This is good for us? Very poor.
We will here any semblance of the truth? Very poor.
This will catapult Bush's ratings? Very Good.
Increased insurrection possibly civil war? Very good.
Stock Market will soar on the news? Very good.
Any difference for the Iraqis? Very poor.

Place your bets now at you nearest cassino or with your nearest stockbroker.

[Character Assassin]

118. So where is the 'He'll never be captured, it's not what PNAC wants' crew?

It'll be interesting to see what they morph their position into after this development.

[salin]

128. Never heard that particular spin

Why would PNAC want Hussein loose? If their plans are to reconfigure the mideast 'to bring stability' - wouldn't arresting (or worse) the former leaders be beneficial? I know you are not claiming this statement/belief to be your own - but I am curious as to the rational used behind such a statement.

My thoughts on todays news. I am very glad that Saddam was caught - and was not assassinated. I think that demonstrating that the US is looking to set the stage for justice for Iraqis... and will hold a fair and transparent trial (so said the Iraqi ambassador to the US on CNN)... is much better than assassination and/or a guantanamo bay 'tribunal'. The latter would perpetuate some of the unease of those Iraqis glad to see Saddam gone, but who are unhappy with 'occupation' who have reportedly come to view US actions and motives and claims of "liberators" with jaundiced eyes. If over time this allows conditions to settle down - there will be fewer civilian and us servicepersons deaths - and it will be possible to turn over power (as we claim to intend to do.)

I was (and still am) against this war for many reasons. But those are irrelevant at this moment. At this moment I pray for a safe and quick resolution to a very messy and dangerous situation... not just for the US Servicefolks representing the US in Iraq and the Iraqi civilians.

[dai]

125. Out with a whimper...

Most notable is how anti-climactic this ends. Disoriented and compliant, Saddam seemed more like a relic coming to grips with his own irrelevance. Perhaps he was powerful and dangerous when he weathered the Cold War, but Saddam could never adapt to the changed world.

This should be a lesson to other Cold War leftovers like Cheney and Rumsfeld; their time is up as well. They have vanquished their great devil, and he was old man too tired to put up a fight.

Bush touts this as a symbolic victory, but the need to dig Saddam up in order to bury him again is the most profound symbol.

[Undemcided]

130. Excellent news

n/t

[Jim Sagle]

137. Psst...don't look now, but Little Green Footballs is watching us.

Hey Charles:

If you're reading this, suck my cock.