Iraq's Sunnis angry over hanging and decapitation

[sabra]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/15/hanging.reax.reut/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Iraq's Sunnis angry over hanging and decapitation

TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) -- Iraqi Shiites, oppressed by Saddam Hussein, welcomed the hanging of two of his aides on Monday, though some joined Sunni Arabs in expressing shock that his half-brother's head was ripped off by the noose.

Hussein's two co-defendants were hanged before dawn on Monday, the Iraqi government said.

They admitted that the head of his half-brother Barzan Hassan was torn from his body by the force of the rope during the execution. (Full story)

In Hussein and Hassan's home town of Tikrit, a Sunni Arab stronghold north of Baghdad, a black banner was raised on the main mosque, named after Hussein, saying: "The people of Tikrit mourn the two martyrs ... killed by sectarian hands."

"There is no way a head would be ripped off the body during a hanging. I'm sure they mutilated the bodies after they hanged them," said Ahmed Mustafa, a 30-year-old student in the northern city of Mosul, accusing Iraq's Shiite-led government of "sucking the blood of the people."

[rodeodance]

1. another OOPS from the IRaqi government.

[sniffa]

2. SUPPORT THE OOPS!!!

[Phredicles]

5. That's OUR little one-trick pony now, sniffa!

I wish DU had a Galaxy avatar...

[Parche]

28. SUPPORT THE SOUPS

Campbells, Lipton and Progresso.........................

You can use a fork, but use a spoon to get every drop

[mrJJ]

38. Iraqi government denies Sadr participated

Lets hope that the troopers arent forced to be at the head of the line in this house to house, street to street anti insurgency mess. The Sunni faction will fight to the death... why surrender when all you face at the end is a Shia controlled government and judiciary...

Maliki will insure that the Shia/Sadr insurgents are kept informed as to how the US plans to take his forces out.

The Sunni group has already ramped up the message.... claiming Sadr was part of the execution...

Sunni Web sites remain abuzz with speculation that Muqtada al-Sadr was one of Saddam Hussein's executioners, and the speculators offer these photos as evidence. The Iraqi government denies Sadr participated in Saddam's hanging

Sunni Web Sites Offer (Unconvincing) Photographic Evidence

http://www.iraqslogger.com/index.php/post/761/Sunnis_Allege_Sadr_A_Saddam_Executioner

[roguevalley]

42. hanging requires the right math. you put too much or too little weight

on the rope, they either strangle or decapitate. sounds like too much weight. what an appalling event this is.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

3. Probably not just IRAQ's Sunnis ...

It's already been spilling over to the U.S.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2681755

It could get worse.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gratuitous]

6. The Sunnis are a minority in Iraq

But they're the big majority in other Muslim countries. Clumsy hangmen (there is an actual guide for hangmen on rope length and drop to ensure a quick death for the victim, and so that the victim's head doesn't get snapped off or the victim doesn't dangle, still alive) are going to as much to inflame folks in neighboring countries as just about anything else.

Is this the sort of "democracy" most Americans envision being spread at the point of our wehrmacht's guns?

[MADem]

47. Absolutely. And a certain bunch of prime Sunnis are the guardians of 'the' Holy Places

The House of Saud guards Mekkah and Medina. And they are most concerned about the way the Sunnis are being treated in Iraq...as are the Syrians, the Egyptians, all of the littoral states, Jordan, and so on....and most of these countries get a good deal of largesse from the House of Saud, so we know what side they'd come down on, even if there weren't a sectarian issue to conveniently divide them. There's also that Shi'a = PERSIAN thing going on, which has rekindled the Persian-Arab rivalry. It's unfortunate that so many people not from the neighborhood fail to note the intense difference between the two cultures. The languages are quite different as well. Of course, it isn't surprising--the MonkeyKing didn't realize there were "sects" in Islam (He likely thought the briefer said SEX, and figured "Hell, yeah, they got lots a-wives an' kids, ah reckon...").

The mutilation of the half brother is completely unacceptable, as you note. It's totally un-Islamic. And if anyone was going to believe that first Saddam execution debacle was just a horrible mistake, this next go-round makes it look deliberate. Wonder if there is any secret cellphone video out there to clear up the debate?

[Canuckistanian]

7. Yet another lynching - these guys are no less than street thugs

There's a proper way to hang someone without decapitating them. There's even tables to show how long the drop should be.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Table_of_Drops

Every executioner should know this. That they didn't is just one more sign that there's no control in the Iraqi government.

[maddezmom]

8. Reuters:Botched hanging in Iraq arouses Arab suspicions

!snip~
But from Morocco to Yemen, ordinary Arabs cast doubt on the official explanation. Some recalled the chaotic and abusive treatment of Saddam Hussein when he was hanged on December 30.

Zaid al-Boudani, a shopkeeper in the Yemeni capital Sanaa, said: "I am very sad today, as many other Muslim Arabs are. This execution is part of the revenge campaign going on in Iraq. The way his head was ripped off shows hatred and revenge."

The president of Morocco's Human Rights Center described the hangings as a barbaric and vengeful act carried out under external pressure, probably from Iran and the United States.

"We had never heard that the head of a hanged person was ripped from his body, only in this case, which mirrors the hatred and violence," said the president, Khaled Charkaoui.

more:http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070115/wl_nm/iraq_arabs_dc

[daleo]

9. Everything just goes from bad to worse

It's hard to beleive this was accidental.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. how can we screw up so badly be accident? It must be by design.

there can be no other explanation. Even flipping a coin gets the right answer 50% of the time. But everything this admin touches turns to shit. Of course, Darth Cheney and Condi Rice tend to put their thumb on that scale and are personally responsible for much of what has happened. Hmmm. perhaps a better choice of words would be irresponsible.

[superconnected]

12. Blood just seems to follow the Bush administration

like a wake from a boat.

[Black Adder]

11. We gotta hang/decapitate them over there, so we don't have to..................

[rodeodance]

13. Saddam aides hanged, film shows brother beheaded

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070115/ts_nm/iraq_dc

Saddam aides hanged, film shows brother beheaded

By Mariam Karouny and Alastair Macdonald
29 minutes ago



BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Two of Saddam Hussein's aides were hanged before dawn on Monday, the Iraqi government said.


But despite its efforts to avoid the uproar that marred the execution of the former president two weeks ago, news that the noose ripped the head from Saddam's cancer-stricken half-brother as he plunged from the gallows appalled international critics of the process and fueled fury among Saddam's fellow Sunni Arabs.

On the defensive after Shi'ite sectarian taunts were heard in illicit film of Saddam's execution, a spokesman for the Shi'ite-led government insisted there was "no violation of procedure" during the executions of his half-brother Barzan Ibrahim al-Tikriti and former judge Awad Hamed al-Bander.

But defense lawyers and politicians from the once dominant Sunni Arab minority expressed anger at the fate of Barzan, Saddam's once feared intelligence chief, and there was also skepticism and condemnation of Iraq's Shi'ite-dominated leadership across the mostly Sunni-ruled Arab world.

[hang a left]

14. Well I knew it was coming.

The film I mean.

[rodeodance]

15. says here they will not release the film.

good!


....Government officials showed journalists film of the two men standing side by side in orange jumpsuits on the scaffold, looking fearful before they were hooded and the nooses placed around their necks. There was no disturbance in the execution chamber -- apparently the same one where Saddam died on December 30.

Bander muttered the prayer: "There is no god but God."

Barzan, 55, a vocal presence during the year-long trial for crimes against humanity, appeared to tremble quietly. As the bodies plunged through the traps, Barzan's hooded head flew off and came to rest beside his body in a pool of blood below the empty noose under the gallows. Bander swung dead on his rope.

Officials said they would not release the film publicly.

[n2doc]

17. I'll believe that when it happens

I suspect it will "accidentally" make it out into the internet. Why take a film of the executions at all, given how the last one was received? There are people in the Iraq government who will benefit from the video, just as there were last time. But we will see. I hope they keep their word.

[ClintonTyree]

26. I'm sure Georgie Boy has a copy already....

to add to his collection of Saddam "memorabilia". Georgie boy gets his rocks off on that sort of stuff. Sick bastard.

[MADem]

48. Actually, the film of Saddam has revitalized the Sunni insurgency

It has resonated across the Arab world, and renewed the rivalry between shi'a and sunni to the point where hatred is rearing its ugly head. Sunni Arabs are saying that Saddam was a hero, that he died a martyr's death, and the shi'a Arabs in Iraq are simply pawns of the evil Persians...

That's the theme I'm hearing, anyway...

[YDogg]

24. How do we know he didn't say, "There is no God but god"?

[rodeodance]

16. ........the damage to the body was "an act of God."

.....Government adviser Bassam al-Husseini said the damage to the body was "an act of God." During his trial for crimes against humanity over the killings of 148 Shi'ites from Dujail, a witness said Barzan's agents put people in a meat grinder.

Hangmen gauge the length of rope needed to snap the neck of the condemned but not to create enough force to sever the head.

Saleem al-Jibouri, a senior Sunni Arab lawmaker, said Barzan may have been weakened by the cancer he was suffering.

SECTARIAN INSULT

[Bobbieo]

18. This tells the whole story!

Google headlines

"Washington believes it is up to Iraqis themselves to end the sectarianism, religious fanaticism and lust for revenge that are rife in the country today.
Most Arab commentators agree, but charge that the United States - in having led the occupation of the country - has sparked the orgies of violence between Iraq's various ethnic and religious groups which had previously been controlled by the former Sunni regime."

[fooj]

30. It was reported that they were led to the gallows wearing ORANGE JUMPSUITS...

What do YOU associate orange jumpsuits with? Grrrrr...

[QC]

36. I heard they sat in white plastic chairs before the hanging!

You know what that means!

[Aviation Pro]

19. Oh, the video will get out....

...take that one to the bank.

[NYC Liberal]

31. .

img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ca807a5c7b076f4e011dc77cn8.jpg
(WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGE)


I believe that this is it...

[mzmolly]

20. Get your democracy on!

I think we need more troops so that this government can succeed!

Bander muttered the prayer: "There is no god but God."

Barzan, 55, a vocal presence during the year-long trial for crimes against humanity, appeared to tremble quietly. As the bodies plunged through the traps, Barzan's hooded head flew off and came to rest beside his body in a pool of blood below the empty noose under the gallows. Bander swung dead on his rope.

Officials said they would not release the film publicly.

Government adviser Bassam al-Husseini said the damage to the body was "an act of God." During his trial for crimes against humanity over the killings of 148 Shi'ites from Dujail, a witness said Barzan's agents put people in a meat grinder.

Ah the meat grinder image again. Well I guess that trumps a mans head being severed from his body, no? :sarcasm:

[superconnected]

21. All so morbid and grotesque. Right down to the decapitated man having cancer.

I read Camus' the Stranger last night so I'm not big on judging strangers for capital punnishment right now.

I guess it's kind of good that the people of the world will get to see the whole morbid grotesqueness of it all. So much better than a dainty clean execution where people wrongly have faith in a system because it's looks anticeptic.

..and it's more blood on Bush's hands.

[daleo]

22. A witness said this, but was it an eyewitness or hearsay?

"During his trial for crimes against humanity over the killings of 148 Shi'ites from Dujail, a witness said Barzan's agents put people in a meat grinder."

They left out any details that would help to judge this claim.

[mzmolly]

23. Yes they have.

And, it's a matter of controversy.

[struggle4progress]

25. .. Iraq hangings shock Europe again (Reuters)

By Robin Pomeroy

ROME, Jan 15 (Reuters) - ... "Reports on .. today's executions are very disturbing," said Irish Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern.

"I believe it is in the interests of justice and reconciliation in Iraq that the Iraqi authorities now take the step of ending executions."

A few hours after the hangings, European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said he backed an Italian-led campaign for the United Nations to agree to a global moratorium on capital punishment.

"I believe in our European values and I take this occasion to thank Italy for all the initiatives that it announced so that, in the framework of the United Nations, we can work together to put an end to the death penalty," he said ...

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L15105893.htm

[itsmesgd]

27. whoopsie, his head "fell"off

sure it did, I realize that they are brutal, but could they try to be a little more original if nothing else.

[ProudDad]

29. I think every execution should be on the evening news

Televised LIVE -- the ultimate "reality show"...

Maybe then, if the sheeple see how barbaric the practice is, even in the allegedly "humane" U.S.of A, they'd demand an end to it.

Executions were once public spectacles. Then too many of them ended up like this one and people began making noises about ending that barbaric, unnecessary practice.

So they moved them indoors and now they do their state murder in secret. It's still barbaric and unnecessary..

---

What a beautiful thing. bush deposed one barbarian in favor of another group of barbarians and it's only going to cost us $1 TRILLION, our honor and our freedoms. Way to go shrub...you fuck... Way to go all the assholes who voted for this war or any war.

[Nihil]

32. I think this would be the network's wet dream.

Given the mental state of most viewers, I sincerely believe that this would be a BIG mistake
as it would create a demand for more & more messy executions, regardless of the crime (or whether
the mark was guilty or not). They would only take a few weeks before a rival company would offer
"phone-in" verdicts, SMS punishment selections and even "nominate a con" options to choose who
would be "featured" in the Saturday night special edition.

Bread & circuses.

[ProudDad]

33. It this is true,

then let's do it and let the human race finish up the job of offing themselves! :shrug:

I'm afraid that although I'm a cynic (I don't give the human race better than a 25% chance of surviving this millennium) I'm still an optimist and prefer to believe in our better natures during my day to day life.

I've seen too many people redeem themselves from some pretty awful situations and mental conditions to become a complete pessimist.

Plus, it ain't good for me to dwell too much on the negative... :hi:

[Nihil]

34. Agreed!

> Plus, it ain't good for me to dwell too much on the negative...

Same here ... there are a lot of good folks around so one can only hope that
they (and their children) will prevail.

:hi:

[MrSlayer]

37. You'd make hundreds of millions on pay per view for it.

I think it would have the opposite effect. People love that shit. If you brought back the real gladiator games of Rome it would outsell the NFL in America and Soccer in Europe easily.

[Art_from_Ark]

39. Unfortunately, I think you're right

[VegasWolf]

35. American gallows technology. The very best that money can buy! nt

[Disturbed]

40. American Executions are boring now.

Showing them would do nothing to dispense the DP.

[rodeodance]

41. Botched hanging in Iraq arouses Arab suspicions

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070115/wl_nm/iraq_arabs_dc

Botched hanging in Iraq arouses Arab suspicions By Jonathan Wright
Mon Jan 15, 7:45 AM ET



CAIRO (Reuters) - The botched hanging of Saddam Hussein's half-brother Barzan on Monday aroused Arab suspicions of foul play and malice, deepening the divide between the Iraqi government and Arabs in other countries.



The noose pulled off Barzan al-Tikriti's head as he fell from the gallows, suggesting that the hangman had misjudged the length of rope needed just to break his neck.

Government spokesman Ali Dabbagh said there was no "violation of procedure" in the hanging of Barzan and fellow convict Awad Hamed al-Bander, Saddam's former chief judge, for crimes against humanity over the killings of 148 Shi'ites.

But from Morocco to Yemen, ordinary Arabs cast doubt on the official explanation. Some recalled the chaotic and abusive treatment of Saddam Hussein when he was hanged on December 30.

[meuniermr]

43. They hung him too high for his weight..eom.

[marshall]

49. I wondered about that

Does anybody know about statistics of such things happening? Since hangings here in this country used to be a spectator sport basically, there must be some historical stats about what happens. Maybe back in the 1800s people were not as heavy as they are today, but I've never heard of such a thing happening.

[johnlal]

44. This is what the death penalty is all about.

In America, the proponents of the death penalty have to supress their glee when we execute a prisoner. The whole ceremony is muted and clinical. This pretense is used to support the notion that execution is beneficial to our society, rather than appealing to our baser instincts. Of course, outside the actual death chamber, we have a hard time containing ourselves. We have protesters and counter-protesters, carrying "Burn in Hell" signs and celebrating the execution. We have pundits gloating 24/7 on cable network "news" programs. We have talk radio hate-spewers advocating torture and execution for all kinds of offenses (including belonging to the Democratic Party).

It takes these incidents in Iraq to show us just what an execution is about. It's about the bloodlust. It's about revenge. It's about physical domination. It's about humiliation of the accused. It's about "might equals right". But mostly, it's about public spectacle, to be celebrated. It's about being animals.

If we are to grow as a people, we are going to have to quit doing these destructive things.

[superconnected]

45. Bravo!

:applause: :applause:

[ninkasi]

46. Great post...

Not only is the death penalty barbaric, but our whole prison system is appalling. We incarcerate more people than any other country in the world. We make few attempts to mitigate the circumstances which create crime. Our so-called "War on Drugs" is a joke.

We must evolve into a more enlightened society, if America is to survive. It would cost far, far less to make sure children were educated, and jobs were plentiful, and the social network to aid the must vulnerable of us were available, than to lock up the ones who have been the victims of the brutality of our current system.

As a nation, we seem to be willing to spend any amount on punishment, and begrudge every cent spent on prevention. We have as a president a man who takes absolute delight in punishment, and executions. He is not qualified to be leading our country. He is as un-evolved a human as I have ever seen. He seems almost to be the reincarnation of a member of the Spanish Inquisition, who knows only one way to deal with people who don't agree with him, and that is to smear them, accuse them, then torture and kill them.

[compote_tom]

50. hanging

I don't think it is significant that his head fell off. I
doubt that caused any more pain to the executed. Taunting
Sadam was perhaps a little improper. Personally, though I am
opposed to capital punishment-- and I am vehemently opposed to
the war, I shed no tears for these killers. I think it ironic
that Bush is critical of the execution. I think his objection
here was that the executions  weren't antiseptic enough. The
reality of it is you're killing someone, 

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

51. Great First Post!

"I think his objection here was that the executions weren't antiseptic enough."

Nails, compte_tom!

[antiimperialist]

52. At least 55 dead in Iraq Wednesday

30 bodies foun on Baghdad, 10 in Mosul, 10 in Kirkuk, 1 in ISKANDARIYA, 2 Mahaweel, 2 (mother and son) in ISKANDARIYA.

Details