Chavez to U.S.: 'Go to hell, gringos!'

[DoYouEverWonder]

Jan 21, 2001

CARACAS, Venezuela - President Hugo Chavez told U.S. officials to "Go to hell!" on his weekly radio and TV show Sunday for what he called unacceptable meddling after Washington raised concerns about a measure to grant Venezuela's fiery leftist leader broad lawmaking powers.

The National Assembly, which is controlled by the president's political allies, is expected to give final approval this week to what it calls the "enabling law," which would give Chavez the authority to pass a series of laws by decree during an 18-month period.

On Friday, U.S. State Department deputy spokesman Tom Casey said Chavez's plans under the law "have caused us some concern."

Chavez rejected Casey's statement in his broadcast, saying: "Go to hell, gringos! Go home!"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070121/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_us

[charlyvi]

1. That guy needs a chill pll. n/t

[tblue]

6. How much do you know about "that guy"? He's not what the US media has painted him to be.

And the Bushies have pushed a coup against him. Check this out:

George Bush Should Get Down on his Knees and Kiss Hugo Chavez’ Behind
http://www.gregpalast.com/hugo-chavez-an-exclusive-interview-with-greg-palast

[charlyvi]

9. I didn't say he was.

And I know quite a bit about his politics. I think his tirades are a bit adolescent, though. It prevents me from taking him seriously--I said the same thing with shrub's "bring it on" and "wanted dead or alive" crap. Rhetoric counts, and this guy's rhetoric is silly.

[tblue]

14. I don't think it's silly at all. And I think he was dead serious. He wasn't talking to us!

He was talking to his people and the people of Latin America about our bullying and thievery. You can't equate the words of a man fighting for the natural resources in the soil of his own country, and for his very life and office, with a chickenhawk's swaggering. I actually think Chavez put a lot of thought into what he's said, and he knows exactly who he's talking to. I also ddoubt what he says is the extent of what he'd like to say. I think he was putting things mildly.

[charlyvi]

19. It's not just this example, tblue.

His speech before the UN had many, many good points, but it turned me off entirely when he started the ad hominim (sp) attack. That kind of thing turns me off completely, whoever does it. Equating bush to Satan has its merits; I've done so myself countless times, but for a head of state to get up in front of the world body and do it made him look like a class clown. He should comdemn us certainly; we have committed atrocious crimes against South America, but do it in a way that is taken seriously. He can be blunt, passionate, to the point and honest without the high school crap.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[charlyvi]

27. Did you read the post at all?

I said his speech had many, many good points. I disagree with his method of delivery. And you neednt be insulting with the "Your President" crack. He's no more my president than yours. And I still feel Chavez borders on class clownhood with his delivery.

[ProudDad]

67. It was the ICE BREAKER JOKE!!!

Right at the beginning of the speech. Every public speaker does it, including bush...

I'd rather see a leader with a little sense of humor than that fascist stick bush...

[Judi Lynn]

70. You're right! It worked, too, with most of the audience, at least the human-like ones.

Apparently some people have become trained to only respond to the more sophisticated _Bush-styled physical humor!

[angstlessk]

16. Honey, you ain't a Venezuelan..you are an American...and you know WHAT

about Venezuela?

[charlyvi]

20. I didn't say I knew Venezuela.

I said I knew something of Chavez' politics. And my name is not honey.

[stillcool]

30. Inquiring mind?

http://www.zmag.org/venezuela_watch.cfm

[Bhaisahab]

38. I'm not american

nor am I white progressive. But I too feel Chavez needs to tone down his name calling. He's playing into the hands of those who want to portray him as a wild leftist, which he most definitely is not.
Cheers

[pampango]

41. Not the ol' "You can't talk about Iraq, Venezuela, the poor, etc

unless you are from there, have been there, or are one" response. I always find that a great put-down and conversation stopper. Since most of us haven't been everywhere in the world, we should just keep our opinions to ourselves.

[Nihil]

43. You don't have to go there to open your eyes about a place.

> Since most of us haven't been everywhere in the world,
> we should just keep our opinions to ourselves.

Let's not be too generous here. Most of the US hasn't been ANYWHERE
in the world (excepting those who used the Armed Forces travel company
of course - motto: "Spreading peace & love around the Greater Empire").

Similarly, more of the US news focusses on a missing dog or other
such shit rather than what has happened outside your national border.
Strangely enough, I can't say that I've noticed a lack of US opinions
on world events but maybe you know better?

The post you responded to was simply addressing the ignorance that
typifies most of the anti-Chavez comments - an ignorance that could
easily be dispelled if the ignorant bothered to learn rather than
just parrot.

[treestar]

79. I hate that one too!

If you've never been in the military, you have no right to an opinion about whether a war is necessary - unless you are a Democrat and oppose a war (John Kerry) in which case, your entire military career is meaningless. But yet if you are a military wife, who has never been in battle yourself, no one is allowed to contradict you. (This is a freeper rather than a DU thing).

If you don't have kids, you have no way of knowing what should be done to raise kids. Love that one, too. I guess since I don't have kids, I can't argue that beating them is wrong.

:rofl:

[treestar]

78. But then the Shrub isn't any better

That's what makes is so hilarious.

As for the "Enabling Acts" at least they are calling it that rather than naming it purposely to create an acronym, like "Patriot."

:rofl:

[SammyWinstonJack]

53. So does george. A big one!

[lligrd]

2. The Real Shame Here Is

that we (the USA) don't have much of a leg to stand on when we denounce what Chavez is doing thanks to the Bush administration trying the same kind of tactics.

[Hieronymus]

5. I agree, the US need to stay out of others' business.

[Megahurtz]

63. I'll 3rd That! n/t

[gratuitous]

3. Uh oh, looks like he's still sore about the attempted coup

Maybe it wasn't the brightest foreign policy brainstorm the Bush administration has ever had. Although in retrospect, considering the conduct of the Iraq invasion, supporting a corporate/military coup of a very popular leader is looking smarter, but that's only because everything else has been so dumb.

[Tight_rope]

48. Can't say that I blame him.

Hell, I live here in the USA and I been saying the US is going straight to Hell for years. At least since Bush took over.:nuke:

[tblue]

4. He means the multinational corps and bloodsuckers in our gov't who want Venez oil, not the US people

He's helped needy Americans with heating fuel and offered to help the victims of Katrina. He's not dissing us! He's telling the Bush Elite to get the hell out of the people of Venezuela's natural resources.

Please, I hope at least we at DU get this!

[davidwparker]

7. Those who have taken the red pill will get it. To know our foreign

policy since WWII is to know an empire in the making. We've stolen, killed, and manipulated others to get where we are internationally. Justice falls on all empires eventually.

[tblue]

8. It is so painful to learn the truth about what your country has done and is doing

around the world, but knowing it is the first step to changing it. I was recently talking to a Berkeley student who honestly believes the US is always the good guy. We don't DO that kinda stuff.

[nolabels]

44. Is it the death and war that upsets most or just the lies and bigotry?

It seems kind of hard to figure out the dividing line. Is the world we live in of a benevolence for life or is it really just that dog eat dog place we have learned to observe so keenly?

To keep a populous obedient you must limit options and keep them ignorant. The narrow cast and specialization in college curricula is designed for that obedient state perpetuation.

The populous in general has been conditioned (trained if you will) to be repulsed at bad news rather than ask why :shrug:

[tblue]

50. For me, it's both. There is no good side to either.

[nolabels]

75. For me it's the lies and bigotry

For many of us guys and gals that served our time faithfully in the military the appointment of * to chief of the military is a large slap in the face. The bastard has single handedly set the US military back at least 70 years. Anybody that ever studied the biography of * should of known that this guy was a failure at everything he did.

The * and his administration is creature of corporatism that has been left unchecked. And getting that corporatism that has turned fascist back into the bottle won't be very easy because it has been festering for many decades now. Yes, i think that this is the biggest problem we are all facing in general is that of yellow journalism. The reams and hours of propaganda that is dispersed to the population that is give them many false senses about how things are.

We are in for big trouble ahead and just getting rid of * is not going to solve as much as people think. Most of the populous has very little knowledge about was is really going on at all.

[Vidar]

10. Can't say I blame him. Aside from the coup attempts against him

personally here's a list Of US meedling in the region: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=818987&mesg_id=819332

[Miss Chybil]

11. Enabling Law? Is that like the Patriot Act? Tom Casey, the Bush

Administration has caused me "some concern." If you're going to whine about the kettle, you've got to be something other than the pot.

[antiimperialist]

13. testing

...

[robcon]

12. Chavez is a jerk.

His Fidel-fawning is disgusting, and his attempt to turn Venezuela into another totalitarian dictatorship is regrettable.

[antiimperialist]

15. Do Venezuelans regret it?

That is the question.

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. You mean the guy

who been democratically elected by overwhelming majorities 4 times in a row?

I get the feeling the general population of Venezuela would disagree with you. However, the people who enriched themselves for decades on Venezuela's resources can't stand him.

[mvd]

72. The guy has done more for the poor who can't afford oil here than..

Bush and his cronies ever did. I don't know if Chavez will give up power easily, but I agree with his social philosophy much more than Bush's extreme right wing one.

[Karenina]

21. What's it to you?

:shrug:

[barb162]

24. He made a total fool out of himself at the UN too

[LynnTheDem]

33. Yes, especially that standing ovation.

[tblue]

35. No one except a few stubborn Americans did NOT cheer his words. I can't believe how many people

even here in DU swallowed the AMERICAN media spin on what Chavez said. He spoke bluntly and stood up to the United States, and the world welcomed it. I wish our own Dems in Congress would be as candid. Should he have pussyfooted around and pretended you can actually negotiate a fair deal with the organized criminals in multinational corps and our gov't? And why the hell should he make nice with those who would do him and his people in in a heartbeat, all to make a buck?

[oblivious]

40. ROFL

:rofl: :rofl:

[rman]

46. Why do you hate foreign leaders who don't have US interests at heart?

By far most of the dictators in Latin America (and elsewhere) were/are supported by the US and the West. And more often than not they replaced democratically elected heads of state that did not have US/Western interests at heart.

But i suppose you know that. After all it's kindof hard not to know unless you only listen to US corporate media.

[High Plains]

47. Stupid Venezuelans. Why do they keep electing a dictator?

Now where's that sarcasm thingie?

[ProudDad]

68. Don't feed the trolls

[stillcool]

17. the still lacking knowledge...

of so many people makes me despondent. As someone up-thread mentioned, nothing will change as long as the delusional cycle continues. Sometimes I wish I were still among them....with that false-hope that keeps them so buoyant.

[barb162]

22. well ,then here's a "go to hell Chavez"

[Nihil]

42. Oh, that's OK then!

As long as a trusty patriotic "American" can respond with a
"Go to hell Chavez" then all's right with the world again!

:eyes:

[roamer65]

23. Maybe the US should mind its own fucking business.

We have more pressing domestic issues to be worried about, rather than Chavez and Venezuela. We should also worry more about our own democracy, rather than someone else's.

[Megahurtz]

64. Here! Here!

:applause:

[Pastiche423]

25. I wish the same thing, President Chavez

I believe the majority of people on this planet do, as well.

[0rganism]

28. *sigh* I wish Chavez would just freakin' ignore the USians

Chavez has more important stuff to deal with than the opinions of some assholes in our government, and to the extent that he does have to deal with those as well, he might want to let his diplomats handle it instead. Spouting borderline racist rhetoric is not going to help him in the long run; frankly, I think he knows better, and usually does better.

He may be letting his ego get the better of his judgment. In fairness, we don't get the whole speech from the yahoo link and this is probably only a small part of it, but also in fairness, the speech is reported to be several hours long...

This is no time for President Chavez to be distracted -- he has 18 months to exercise the priveleges granted to him by the national assembly to introduce the reforms necessary for the Bolivarian revolution to proceed apace, so use them wisely, and drop the confrontational attitude.

Perhaps he's gotten wind of additional CIA-sponsored coup plots? That might explain an extra-salty outlook on his part, but once again the best solution would be to speak to them specifically, rather than freaking out at USians in general. Should the US be meddling? Hell no, but there are more, dare I say, mature ways to handle it. He's got an important job that recently became much more powerful, and I wish he'd take this time to do it right. Alienating the northern hemisphere is probably not the best use of his time.

[tblue]

36. I think he wants to make it known that if he dies unexpectedly, it wasn't an accident

He can't ignore us. We are doing great harm to his people, through destabilization of their government, sabotaging reforms in healthcare, poverty, and democracy, and taking over ownership of natural resources. We are very much his problem.

[0rganism]

80. Like I said, he can do all that without wasting precious time

To the extent we're sabotaging his efforts in securing and stabilizing his country, he can take countermeasures without making an international ass of himself. It should give him some satisfaction that he's already a huge wrench in the regional engine of capitalist exploitation; there's nothing you mentioned that he doesn't have the actual political power to fix for the next 18 months. Unlike some here, I'm quite willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on the whole enabling act thing, but I want to see him to take his position and powers seriously for the good of his people, not fritter it away or use it for oppression. Tick tock, you know. :shrug:

[tblue]

83. I can't argue with that. Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens with all this 'enabling'

Scary concept, it is.

[MasonJar]

29. The Bush government has no credibility to tell anyone what to do

after their continued abuse of power, especially a sovereign nation.

[USA No. 1]

31. I agree...

Sad but true. Under this president, America has lost its moral bearing. It's going to take years, if ever, to regain our status as a beacon of freedom for the rest of the world.

[rocktivity]

32. I would think that this decree business would bring Chavez and Bush closer together

since it gives them something in common.

What does Bush think he's doing when he uses signing statements, executive orders, and recess appointments to circumvent America's legislative process? Is that not ruling by decree?

:shrug:
rocknation

[BushOut06]

34. I love this man

I love seeing a strong leader standing up to the US, telling Bush to go to hell. Seriously, why does the United States feel they are entitled to tell every single fucking country how to run their affairs? What the fuck gives the US the right to instigate coups in other countries? We sure as hell wouldn't put up with some other country meddling in our affairs, yet we seem to feel it's our god-given right to do so with other countries, especially those in "our" hemisphere.

Ever since the Monroe Doctrine, the US has felt that it somehow "owns" this entire side of the world. At first, it was a good thing, helping keep the European predators at bay. However, the MD has increasingly turned into an imperialistic doctrine, an excuse for the US to intervene in South and Latin American countries as it sees fit.

Chavez has done NOTHING to antagonize the United States. He was duly elected in a fair election by the his people, something that Bush can't claim. Simply because he has different political and economic views than the United States, somehow Bush feels obligated to sabotage him at every turn. It is the UNITED STATES who has done most of the antagonizing, souring relations with Venezuela. How do you expect Chavez to react? Yet somehow, many people - including many here at DU - feel the need to tear the man down simply for standing up for his own country in the face of imperialism.

[tblue]

37. And we've done more than just antagonize Venezuela. We've been really terrible

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/messages_of_so

[Tatiana]

39. U.S. to Chavez: "We're already there!"

I think it would be prudent if we just left Venezuela alone and did not involve ourselves in Venezuelan affairs. Let them sort things out. The U.S. needs to stop trying to control the affairs of other sovereign nations.

[Megahurtz]

65. Yes! n/t

[rman]

45. Chavez told U.S. *officials* to "Go to hell!"

It seems that some here didn't read the article before responding.

[Eugene]

52. That's the AP's updated headline...

Chavez to U.S. officials: 'Go to hell' - AP via Yahoo!

I saw the original headline on the front page of today's Metro and
knew in an instant that the report came from the Associated Press.

I'm not sure I like Hugo Chavez, but he has a point.

[KansDem]

54. AP has not been too journalistic in its journalistic endeavors of late...

It identified Mark Foley as a "Democrat" when the House page scandal broke:



BradBlog

Mistake? I think not...

[redqueen]

49. hahahaha... is he still mad about that coup?

aww chavez... they promised it wasn't them... and i'm sure they won't do it again... i mean fomenting coups in south america... that's so 80's, man! relax!

[Lilith Velkor]

56. I know. What kind of retard takes it personally when you try to kill him?

I mean, like, why would he be sooo totally paranoid? Ga-hawd, you'd think his country had OIL or something! :eyes:

[ileus]

51. he needs to get a fuddernuttin' clue...

[Zodiak]

60. ...about what, prey tell?

What valid criticism do you bring to the table?

I would like to know more about what you think.

[Wizard777]

55. "Be patient" Bush will get us there. n/t

[mvd]

57. The gringos part is pretty tactless IMO as it is used as a slur in..

that part of the world, but otherwise, he's just saying to Bush what I do all the time. :-)

[Bridget Burke]

66. A Cuban artist I knew was called "gringo" in Venezuela.

Because he was fairly "light." He was working with market people, who were much darker. In that case, Gringo was a comment on his appearance--not a slur.

There are much ruder words in Spanish.

[mvd]

71. I don't think Chavez used it to be nice

I just think it clouded his message a bit.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zodiak]

58. After reading many informative posts on DU

and noting the dissenters' opinions and researching them, I have decided that I, as an American, have nothing against Chavez. Perhaps the only criticism of him that is valid is that he seems to care not about how impolite his words sound to a world that has fat and happy with risk aversion, and so his ability to persuade is not maximized (at least not for American audiesnces).

As usual, the drumbeat of the American media is wrong on this issue, and it takes very little research to make that clear.

Chavez has more in common with the conservative Texan living in a trailer park than Bush does, and he has their interests more in mind.

[Dammit Ann]

59. Sound familiar?

"The president's opponents accuse him of using his political strength to expand his powers."

I like Chavez but a dictator is a dictator, no matter what.

[ProudDad]

69. Let's see "the president's opponents"

The "haves" and the "Have Mores". The owners of the (soon to be former) media monopolies. The oil oligarchs.

Sounds like bush's "base"...:shrug:

[rinsd]

61. What's a matter Hugo? Oil prices tanking and your name wasn't mentioned this week in the news?

[Recursion]

62. As much as I don't drink the Hugo kool aid, I do like that he quit his talk show before the election

That's a good sign.

[Seeking Serenity]

73. The more he talks like that,

the more I believe that if America didn't exist, Chavez would have to invent it.

[Judi Lynn]

74. The US supported oligarchy wouldn't have formed in his own country

to assume the degree of corrupt, brutal control it held over the country all these years had the US not existed.

Time spent researching Venezuelan history should do a world of good.

[jsamuel]

81. His point, I believe, is that Chavez needs an enemy to keep the support he is getting.

I think muddleofpudd is right.

[Bacchus39]

82. vete al carajo Chavez maricón

n/t