CNN: Black Hawk may have been downed by a shoulder-fired missile, U.S. military officials told CNN

[sabra]

http://www.cnn.com/

The initial investigation into Saturday's helicopter crash in Iraq indicates the Black Hawk may have been downed by a shoulder-fired missile, U.S. military officials told CNN.

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Update

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N22435890.htm


Deadly US helicopter crash caused by missile -CNN

WASHINGTON, Jan 22 (Reuters) - The U.S. military helicopter that crashed outside Baghdad, killing all 12 on board, was shot down by a shoulder-fired missile, CNN reported on Monday.

The Black Hawk was most likely brought down on Saturday by hostile fire, according to unidentified U.S. officials cited by CNN. The crash was still under investigation but debris recovered on the ground indicate a missile was involved, CNN said.

"We have not released anything from here on the cause of the crash ... The cause of the crash is still under investigation," said Lt. Col. Josslyn Aberle in Baghdad.

[C_U_L8R]

1. could it be... from Iran ???

How conveeeenient.

[Kagemusha]

2. Excuse me?

I thought Russia manufactured the shoulder fired stuff in that region, and there's no need, or point, for such weaponry to have been provided by the Iranian government.

If this dose of reality is unwanted, my apologies.

[bahrbearian]

8. Stinger Missile? Perhaps

It was O.K. to supply and Train the Mujahideen in Afghanistan.

[Kagemusha]

10. I doubt 20 year old Stingers would be helpful

Iran doesn't make any either. But hey, not like I know exactly what was used myself.

[happyslug]

18. Probably a SA-16 or SA-18

For more on these Man packable weapons see:
Global Security
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/sa-16.htm

Federation of American Scientists (FAS):
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-16.htm
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-18.htm

And don't forget the Vietnam era SA-7 (Which is also produced in Egypt and Pakistan):
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/sa-7.htm

[INDIA]

3. Do you not think Iran is sending weapons to militias and insurgent

groups in Iraq?

Do you also not think Iran has sent weapons to Hezbollah that were used against Israelis last summer?


I'm just trying to see where you're coming from. I don't know where that missile came from, but I know that it wasn't made out of glue and fig trees by the insurgents.

(You're right though, could have been a low tech untraceable RPG)

[The Stranger]

4. You seem intent on showing Iran's involvement.

If you think it is from Iran, provide some evidence.

Also, the insertion into the thread of Israel's invasion of Lebanon references "weapons," but clearly not the kind involved here. So what does that have to do with anything, other than trying to paint a target on yet another Middle Eastern country for Bush and his Neocon handlers to invade?

[MrPrax]

5. You think?...

Yes...CLEARLY someone is intent on breaking into the cockpit.

Where are those sky marshals when you need them... :eyes:

[INDIA]

7. I'm not "intent" on anything...

that's putting words in my mouth. I AM saying that it is at least POSSIBLE that Iranian financial or weapons support could be behind the deaths of US troops, which the first poster sarcastically seemed to dismiss.

"Provide some evidence." Yeah dude, I'll just jump in my mystery wagon with Scooby-Doo and drive out to Iraq. From my spot (behind a keyboard) all I can do is speculate. Likewise for you.

[MrPrax]

12. Really?

Well scrolling up I find that the OP is clearly about a helicopter crash in Iraq, more wasted life courtesy of Bush and his enablers, and SOME speculation as to what 'weapons' might have been used.

Early prediction is that the culprits are more than likely Iraqis. Just speculating...apparently a few of them don't want US foreign troops occupying their country and killing their people.

But in your 'reply' you mention Iran twice and Hezbullah once to only THEN agree with the person you replied too!

:shrug:

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. It's POSSIBLE

At the same time, I've heard no end of definitive declarations on this point, not least from the American news media. They speak it as if it is definitely known, with clear supporting evidence. It is not, at least not in public. Whenever you want to provide some evidence for your assertions, they will move from possibility to fact. At this point, they remain possibility, which is where you seem happy for them to be. You buy all the heft of accusation, and none of the associated burden of accusation. That's a neat trick, but hardly constitutes a serious argument.

No, sir. This time around, it is to our benefit to wait for real, established, clear facts. Insinuation and "everybody knows" argumentation is insufficient, and probably irresponsible.

[C_U_L8R]

6. I was just being snarky :-)

should've put a wink or something....
I just feel this admin is sitting on a hairtrigger
and waiting for the flimsiest of excuses
to turn Iran into glass. Hope I'm proved wrong.

[Javaman]

9. Some people can't spot a snark a mile away. nt

[Tempest]

11. Iran doesn't make stinger missiles

Iran makes a variation of a stinger missile that is completely distinct.

However, the U.S. makes stinger missiles and there's a good chance the missile came from the U.S. via Afghanistan.

Reagan sold stingers to the Afghan rebels by the truckload.


On edit:

The story doesn't specifically say a stinger missile was used, but the insurgents have been using them to date. I can't find mention of any other type of shoulder fired missile being used by the insurgents.

[KansDem]

13. Another reason to put the whole sorry lot of neo-con fascists in prison

Reagan sold stingers to the Afghan rebels by the truckload.

This move proves America does do business with terrorists. Reagan sends hi-tech weaponry to terrorists and what happens? An aircraft carrier is named after him :crazy:

[benEzra]

14. It'd be more likely to be a Warsaw Pact design from the old Iraqi army stockpiles...

since most of the Iraqi weapons systems were Warsaw Pact pattern. Stinger systems shipped over there 20 years ago would need some serious maintenance and refurbishment to be able to function today. But there are undoubtedly vast numbers of ex-Iraqi-army MANPADS floating around, and those are only a few years old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MANPAD

Or it could have been an RPG, as in Somalia (but probably wasn't, due to the difficult in actually hitting with one unless the helicopter is hovering very close to you).

[htuttle]

17. It may have been supplied to our Shiite 'allies' by our 'enemy' Iran...

...Or it may have been supplied to our Iraqi Sunni 'enemies' by our Sunni 'allies', Saudi Arabia or Jordan. Or, maybe some guy who's kid we killed just bought it in a street market...

We are 'allied' with our "enemy's" proxies, and are fighting our "allies'" proxies. THAT is how fucked up the situation in Iraq is right now...

[Nihil]

20. It's far more likely to have come from the ...

... totally unguarded ammo dumps ignored by US troops in favour of
guarding the *really* *important* things (e.g., the Oil Ministry).

Surprisingly enough, the Iraqis used to buy their own weapons, train
their own armed forces on them and keep supplies in arms dumps.

Why introduce bullshit about "Iran is sending weapons" if not for your
own agenda?

[BluePatriot]

16. Yep, my thoughts exactly (nt)

[Shipwack]

19. Or maybe it's more convenient to put the blame on "enemy fire"...

Instead of admitting that our hi-tech equipment is worn out from constant use without enough time for maintenance and overhaul... or adequate funding.

Or maybe they don't want to admit that it was due to pilot error, possibly impaired judgment from fatigue or other causes.

[Ezlivin]

21. Just another reason the V-22 Osprey will never see combat

Maybe in another 10 years it'll be actually flying somewhere and no longer in "testing."