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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-23-07 10:20 PM
Original message
N Korea helping Iran with nuclear testing
N Korea helping Iran with nuclear testing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/01/24/wiran24.xml

(please tell me that the telegraph is the british equivilent of 'the onion'...

By Con Coughlin
Last Updated: 2:29am GMT 24/01/2007

North Korea is helping Iran to prepare an underground nuclear test similar to the one Pyongyang carried out last year.

Under the terms of a new understanding between the two countries, the North Koreans have agreed to share all the data and information they received from their successful test last October with Teheran's nuclear scientists.

North Korea provoked an international outcry when it successfully fired a bomb at a secret underground location and Western intelligence officials are convinced that Iran is working on its own weapons programme.

A senior European defence official told The Daily Telegraph that North Korea had invited a team of Iranian nuclear scientists to study the results of last October's underground test to assist Teheran's preparations to conduct its own — possibly by the end of this year...


it's really starting to snowball, isn't it...?
we're going to go to WAR- for REAL this time...and it WON'T be pretty.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-23-07 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bush is a coalition builder alright.
What a total fuckup.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-23-07 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. More propaganda. No sources. No credibility.
A senior European defence official
There were unconfirmed reports
senior western military officials are deeply concerned
the European defence official
All the indications are
defence officials
Western intelligence agencies have reported
The Iranians are reported to have been encouraged

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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-23-07 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. north korea sells and shares military techs
with many countries, including iran. so its not really unprecedented especially considering the case of pakistan's nuclear "leaks" and accquistion of missle tech. just saying..
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. And yet that doesn't make this true
Possible and true are not synonyms, but a possible scenario would sell more copies than one than one that was unimaginable.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Bingo!
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MsKandice01 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-23-07 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. A bit about The Daily Telegraph from Wikipedia
"The Telegraph is traditionally right wing, catering to the mostly Conservative readership (see introduction). The combination of personal links between the paper's editorial team and the leadership of the Conservative Party, along with the paper's influence over Conservative activists, results in the paper often being jokingly referred to, especially in Private Eye, as the Torygraph."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Telegraph#Political_stance

It's the Faux of the UK.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-23-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. beat me to it! -- here's a bit more
According to a MORI survey conducted in 2004, 61% of Telegraph readers were Conservative Party supporters compared with 31% of the general population.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-23-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Aren't things a bit more complicated than that in the UK?
After all it is NeoLabour under Der Poodle who took GB to war with Bush, not the tories.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. A bit more complicated, though nearly all Tory MPs voted for the war
a higher proportion of them voted for invading Iraq than Labour MPs did.

For a snapshot of the Telegraph's, and other papers', opinion leading up to the Iraq invasion:

Not in Britain, though, where the latest polls show a mere 10 per cent in favour of war without a second UN approval. The four Murdoch papers - 36 per cent of the national market - stand four-square beside their boss. The two Telegraphs of Conrad Black pit 'Old Europe versus New World' and, with magnificent predictability, hail the New World Dawn as Lord Black delivers a very long lecture in his own Spectator praising that fine Blair 'courage'.

Add in the Daily Mail and the ancestral voices backing war are loud and vociferous. Courageous Tony has the heaviest hitters on board.

Two countries 25 miles apart with very similar public opinion polls, but two hugely disparate press responses. 'What's the difference between toast and Frenchmen?' asks the Sun. Answer: 'You can make soldiers out of toast.'
...
Wherever a national press is nationally owned, there's an ebb and flow of real argument at the moment. But in Britain, things are exactly as we're used to them. The only papers owned by a joined up euro-country - Sir Tony O'Reilly's (Irish) Independents - are rigorously anti-Blair. 'Regime change in Westminster may precede that in Baghdad'. The Guardian has never felt warmer about Jacques Chirac. The Mirror seldom pauses for a second thought. 'Heed the sane voices of Old Europe ... this is no lovers' tiff.' The Express examines its navel: 'Mr Blair cannot just railroad a divided country into war.'

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,,896415,00.html


Black doesn't own the Telegraph any more, but it's attitude hasn't changed much.

Con Coughlin was a never-ending cheerleader for the neocons (until that word became unfashionable - see below), and against Iraq and Iran (I apologise for the number of links, but I'm using this post to collect all his warmongering in one easy-to-find place):

Number 10 won't stop Bush going after Saddam (2 Dec 2001; in which he argues Blair would only support an attack on Iraq with "incontrovertible evidence" linking Baghdad directly to the September 11 attacks)
Iran should come before Iraq (17 Mar 2002)
Saddam killed Abu Nidal over al-Qa'eda row (25 Aug 2002; claims Abu Nidal was killed for refusing to train al Qa'eda)
Saddam has outwitted his enemies again (17 Nov 2002; by allowing in arms inspectors, if you want to know - Coughlin blames Colin Powell for the USA not attacking Iraq without inspections, and worries that it might turn out there are no WMD, which would be a disaster, as far as he's concerned)
Mombasa bombing reveals possible al-Qa'eda-Hizbollah link (8 Dec 2002)
Syrians 'smuggling arms to Baghdad' (14 Dec 2002)
UN inspectors uncover proof of Saddam's nuclear bomb plans (18 Jan 2003)
The fall of the Baghdad wall (19 Jan 2003; "Saddam is continuing with his quest to develop the first Arab atom bomb")
So what if Saddam's deadly arsenal is never found? (1 Jun 2003)[br /How the 45-minute claim got from Baghdad to No 10 (7 Dec 2003; praising the source of misinformation that ended in Dr. Kelly's death)[br />Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam (13 Dec 2003)
Five N-bombs within Iran's grasp as West prevaricates (11 Sept 2004)
Syria brokers secret deal to send atomic weapons scientists to Iran (28 Sept 2004; "Iraqi nuclear scientists", of course)
Still they won't admit they got Iraq wrong (2 Feb 2005; :rofl: )
Iran plans secret 'nuclear university' to train scientists (20 Mar 2005)
North Korea to help Iran dig secret missile bunkers (12 Jun 2005; hey, today's story sounds familiar, doesn't it?)
UN inspectors 'powerless to stop atom bomb plans in Iran' (11 Sept 2005)
Now we know the truth about Iran, we must act (9 Oct 2005)
Russians help Iran with missile threat to Europe (16 Oct 2005)
Smuggling route opened to supply Iraqi insurgents (29 Oct 2005)
Teheran 'secretly trains' Chechens to fight in Russia (26 Nov 2005)
Iran 'could go nuclear within three years' (17 Jan 2006)
'Only a matter of time before terrorists use weapons of mass destruction' (17 Jan 2006)
Iran plant 'has restarted its nuclear bomb-making equipment' (11 Feb 2006)
Teheran park 'cleansed' of traces from nuclear site (6 Mar 2006)
Iran has missiles to carry nuclear warheads (7 Apr 2006)
The West can't let Iran have the bomb (11 Apr 2006)
Iran accused of hiding secret nuclear weapons site (13 Jun 2006)
Israeli crisis is a smoke screen for Iran's nuclear ambitions (14 Jul 2006)
Meanwhile, Iran gets on with its bomb (21 Jul 2006)
Iran 'is training the next al-Qa'eda leaders' (15 Nov 2006)
He calims Iran is supporting the Taliban (22 Dec 2006)

It's instructive to compare his 2005 piece attacking the BBC, Robert Fisk, and politicians who opposed invading Iraq, "Still they won't admit they got Iraq wrong", with his 2006 'deserting the sinking ship' piece, "How the neo-cons lost the war":

2005:
Not that this view was at all reflected in the BBC's coverage last Sunday night. Rather than applauding the extraordinary bravery of the eight million or so Iraqi voters who braved the threats of Abu Musab al-Masawi, al-Qaeda's point man in Iraq, the BBC led with the negative line, "Violence mars Iraqi elections." There had, it is true, been suicide bomb attacks on polling stations in Baghdad and elsewhere, killing more than 30 people, but the death toll was modest by comparison with what al-Masawi and his cohorts had threatened.

Some people are just bad losers. The BBC, together with a significant section of the media, could not bring itself to acknowledge that Iraq's liberation from Saddam was being ratified by the democratic process. When a reporter said that voter turn-out exceeded 60 per cent, far higher than expected, I heard one of the producers remark, sotto voce, "Yeah, yeah, yeah."

I presumed that they were finding it hard to reconcile the day's relatively successful outcome with the apocalyptic predictions made earlier that day by Robert Fisk, that Cassandra of Middle East reporting. Fisk's take on last weekend's election preparations was characteristically alarmist. "They are waiting for the rivers of blood", proclaimed a banner headline over his piece on the front page of The Independent on Sunday. Sorry, Fisky, wrong again! Both the Tigris and Euphrates retain their traditional effluent-grey hue. But then, this was no more than we should expect from a reporter who confidently predicted the evisceration of coalition forces by Saddam's Republican Guard during the 1991 Gulf War.

Nor were the media the only offenders in willing failure on Iraq. "The election in Iraq is held against a dark and dangerous background," trumpeted Robin Cook, Douglas Hurd and Menzies Campbell in a shared offering to The Times last weekend. Their argument was essentially that, because the Sunnis were boycotting the election, it would lead to greater tension in Iraq, perhaps even civil war.

Like so many of the arguments guaranteeing the election's failure, it was based on a false premise. Iraqi Sunnis are not just confined to the notorious triangle around Ramadi and Fallujah, the heartland of the anti-coalition insurgency. The Kurds, who represent about 20 per cent of the Iraqi population, are Sunni Muslims - or perhaps Messrs Cook, Hurd and Campbell do not regard the Kurds as being Iraqi? Anyway, when you add the 30 per cent from the Sunni triangle who voted to the 100 per cent from the Kurdish region, a clear majority of Sunnis participated in the election.


2006:
So long, that is, as they remain united in their determination to stay the course and see the job through. Which is why, despite the seemingly endless violence and bloodshed, Blair and Bush are incapable of facing up to the fact that Iraq today is as far-removed from a peaceful settlement as it was in the spring of 2003 when the US-led military coalition first took control of the country following Saddam Hussein's overthrow.
...
But none of those plans saw the light of day once President Bush had unilaterally decided to hand responsibility for post-war administration to the Pentagon, which was then firmly under the influence, if not the control, of the neocons. And they had an altogether more ambitious, and ultimately unattainable, vision of transforming Iraq from a backward Arab autocracy into a Western-style democracy.
...
By the summer of 2003, the coalition, which had been hailed as Iraq's liberators in April, was held in utter contempt by an Iraqi population that had no desire to be occupied in the first place.
...
Tony Blair must take much of the blame for this disastrous state of affairs. Blair loyalists, and indeed the Bush administration, will argue forcibly that much progress has been made and that, thanks to the dedication and sacrifice of troops from Britain and America, Iraq has a new constitution and a democratically elected government.

The political advances have been impressive, with remarkable turn-outs in last year's referendum and this year's general election. But irrespective of the tangible progress on the political front, the coalition's nation-building credibility has been thoroughly compromised by the continuing chaotic security situation which shows no sign of abating.


You have to admire his ability to turn on a dime, and without any shame whatsoever.
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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. That's some damn fine research. Thank you.
I had exactly the same suspicion and googling his name confirmed my suspicions. A classic shill.
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mazzarro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. BINGO! -- n/t
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. What do they say about Aviation week
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/IRAN01257.xml

SOme may think it is alarming. I say take it with a grain of salt and hope the Iranian president gets removed from office.
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. AW has no cred with me
I used to read it religiously - but in the end I concluded that they were nothing but shills for the MIC.

They really went to bat for the GOP RW during the SALT treaty debates and published the most astonishing horseshit about Soviet ICBMs imaginable. None of it was true...and MSM parroted these lies as gospel.

They suck...and I don't believe anything they print.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-23-07 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Telegraph is not one of my favored sources
Sometimes they are truthful, often they are a propaganda organ, almost always they are sensationalist.
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fNord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. well, whether its propaganda.....
or straight up fact, we had all better stock up on duct tape and bottled water

:sarcasm:
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. and keep those gas tanks FULL- while it's still on the relatively cheap.
when the bombs start dropping- the price will be going waaaaaay up.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. BREAKING NEWS -- Iran Set to Try Space Launch
There are concerns in the West that space launch upgrades, however, could eventually create an Iranian intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) with a range of nearly 2,500 mi., giving Tehran the ability to strike as far as central Europe, well into Russia and even China and India.

<snip>

A November 2006 Congressional Research Service report reinforced concerns over Iranian and North Korean missile development ties. It notes that Israel's military intelligence chief has information indicating that North Korea has shipped to Iran eighteen 1,500 mi. range BM-25 ballistic missiles capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.

"Largely with foreign help, Iran is becoming self-sufficient in the production of ballistic missiles," says the report's author, Kenneth Katzman. And he reminds that a 2006 U.S. National Security Strategy Document notes, "The United States may face no greater challenge from a single country than Iran."


http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/IRAN01257.xml

Maybe this is what Edwards was hinting about as Iran's threat to the world.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. suuuuuuuuuuuure
nice propaganda.
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ohio2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
18. A related link ?
Iran tells U.N. of uranium enrichment steps

Atomic agency chief says 3,000 centrifuges to be installed as of next month

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16825038

Guess they won't need any more tech assist for awhile but at least for a month they have a handle on things.Maybe they will need help during the "ides of March" if a glitch or two pops up during installs? As is,they are much closer to nuke power. You have to admit that kicking out UN inspectors at this time isn't a good sign.

Well,on a humorous side note; If the plan is to build the 1st Islamic bomb, I find it ironic that they could thank an atheistic society ( behind closed doors ) for providing the knowledge....
Or, as some revisionists would prefer, Kim supplied the God given talent.

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oblivious Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Only one problem with your statement. Iran hasn't kicked out the UN inspectors.
I think there are about 200 of them there at the present time, are there not? It has banned inspectors from countries that backed sanctions.

They have the legal right to do this and the IEAE has agreed.
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Melynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. So what?
Those countries should be able to defend themselves. Why not?
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I think the world would be a better place if every single country
had a stockpile of nuclear weapons. Imagine if Iraq and Iran had both had them in the eighties. That war would not have lasted nearly as long as it did. Is Sudan had them, the Darfur crisis would be over in a heart beat. (No one could live there for a few centuries but the Janjaweed would be out of a job.)

I am sure that Iran is sick of how many times we have invaded them over the years and does not want that to happen again. Well, even if we haven't invaded them we have sponsored coups that nuclear weapons would prevent in the future. Just as with North Korea which knows that we are likely to invade because we covet their ... (someone help me here - they have to have something that could be spun as a justification for our invasion.)

Whether or not Iran is really building towards a nuclear weapon, I doubt that they would conduct a test any time soon. Their whole strategy with the world community is that they have the right to a peaceful nuclear energy program. They are usually able to split the West, some of whom believe that is true, and forestall any international action against their country. Why would they change a successful strategy?
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. Tory paper, bullshit source, pimping for war based on lies.
Didn't we see this before?

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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-27-07 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hoo-boy
:(
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
25. Update: Press Complaints Commission investigate Coughlin for this piece
The Press Complaints Commission have launched their third investigation of Daily Telegraph political editor, Con Coughlin, in as many months, after a number of high level complaints about his latest ariticle on Iran. The investigation is looking at an article by Mr Coughlin on 24 January relying on an unnamed “European defence official” alleging that North Korea is helping Iran prepare a nuclear weapons test and follows the recent publication of a report detailing a catalogue of innaccurate and misleading stories about Iran by. The report, put together by Campaign Iran and published last month, revealed that Mr Coughlin, the man who ‘broke the story’ of Iraq’s 45 minute WMD capacity, is behind sixteen articles containing unsubstantiated allegations against Iran over the past twelve months. The PCC will examine whether the stories, all based on unnamed or untraceable sources, are in breach of Clause 1 of their Code of Practice, requiring accuracy.

The veracity of Coughlin’s writing on Iran is already under investigation by the PCC following complaints about a headline article in last month’s Telegraph that claimed that Iran was “grooming Bin Laden’s successor”. The story, universally dismissed by Middle East experts, led the organisation Campaign Iran to conduct a broader analysis of the accuracy of Mr Coughlin’s stories and the journalistic methods he uses. Analysing 44 articles by Mr Coughlin on Iran, the report finds some stark patterns in terms of his journalistic technique:
...
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2007/01/361101.html

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Eugene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thank you for posting this! nt
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-12-07 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Fascinating.
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