Cause of Iraq chopper deaths disputed

[maddezmom]

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Four of the five Americans killed when a U.S. security company's helicopter crashed in a dangerous Sunni neighborhood in central Baghdad were shot execution style in the back of the head, an Iraqi military official said Wednesday.

~anip~

A U.S. official in Baghdad, however, had earlier said there was no information to substantiate the report that the men had been shot execution style.

~snip~

Khalilzad did not give more details, saying the crash was still under investigation and it was difficult to know exactly what happened because of "the fog of war."

An embassy official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said three Blackwater helicopters were involved. One had landed for an unknown reason and one of the Blackwater employees was shot at that point, he said. That helicopter apparently was able to take off but a second one then crashed in the same area, he added without explaining the involvement of the third helicopter.

more: http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/24/iraq.helicopter.crash.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

1. Ugly, horrific events are occurring in Iraq about which we can only imagine.

The corporate media is keeping so much under wraps, right now. MKJ

[4dsc]

3. "Blackwater down"??

EOM..

[maddezmom]

10. According to insurance claims on file @ Dept of Labor, 770 civilian contractors have been killed

According to insurance claims on file at the Department of Labor, 770 civilian contractors have been killed in Iraq since the war began in March 2003, through December 31, 2006. Additionally, 7,761 civilian contractors have been injured in the same period, according to claims on file.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070124/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Wonder how their death benefits compare to the US troops?

[coalition_unwilling]

25. We will have to wait for this war's "Apocaplypse Now" to give

our imagination its full share of this horror.

[marshall]

42. When will they learn?

We can't teach them to act like human beings. I fear for all our people over there in the middle of such a hell on earth.

[tanyev]

2. Now we find out there were 3 Blackwater helicopters involved.

This story keeps growing and growing.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

4. Yep, it appears that Blackwater is heavily involved in the fray.

And, I'd be willing to bet that they are far more despised than our troops by most Iraqis. MKJ

[spinbaby]

5. Do they ever release the names?

My sister in-law's ex husband works for Blackwater in Iraq. I've always wondered if we'd know if he'd been killed.

[maddezmom]

6. Yes I think eventually they do, I just found this article about Blackwater

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=258867&mesg_id=258867

[confludemocrat]

7. delete-duplicate

[confludemocrat]

8. Uh Oh, U.S. wiped out an entire city-Falujah-for killing mercenariies

of our preferred mercenary provider. what now?

[maddezmom]

9. not sure, but that's where some of the action is happening today

[coalition_unwilling]

26. Probably wipe out an entire country - Iraq (n/t)

[Eugene]

11. Exactly what are these "security professionals" doing?

"Blackwater helicopters participate in a joint U.S. military operation
in Baghdad on Tuesday." - Caption of AFP photo at story link

:wtf:

I might half-believe the convoy escort story if it were not for the photo
and the involvement of three helicopters. What the hell are mercenaries
doing in a joint U.S.-Iraqi military operation?

[maddezmom]

12. something really stinks about this story

escorting is one thing, training is one thing but who is in control of these security forces? US Military or Iraqi Military? :wtf: is right

[saigon68]

17. Down Goes Frazier

LOL





most famous call took place in the fight between Joe Frazier and George Foreman in Kingston, Jamaica in 1973. When Foreman knocked Frazier to the mat, Cosell yelled out
“ Down Goes Frazier! Down Goes Frazier! Down Goes Frazier!! ”


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Cosell

[Taoschick]

22. They've got

A contract with the State Department. They provide escort for the convoys and provide protection if the convoys come under attack. Private firms also provide security for embassies and US diplomats world wide.

[maddezmom]

23. I understand that, but it sounds like they were part of an assault

not just providing protection.

[Eugene]

24. and they're actively engaged in a counterinsurgency operation.

(Agence France-Presse)

US probes deaths of five security guards in Iraq

by Jay Deshmukh

36 minutes ago

-snip-

On Tuesday, US combat helicopters and private security choppers buzzed the Sunni stronghold
of Adhamiyah in east Baghdad during a coordinated operation following the crash.

Up to nine aircraft including Apache attack helicopters circled the area for several hours,
and heavy machine-gun fire was heard coming from the district.

-snip-

Full article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070124/wl_mideast_afp/iraqushelicopterprobe_070124192847

That's a whole lot more than a convoy escort. This is a show of strength.
These "contractors" are in the mix and they are not readily answerable
to anybody. That is a problem.

[gratuitous]

13. What dispute does the headline refer to?

It appears that whether the trigger men said "Allah akbar" or just sent the mercenaries into eternity without any liturgy that would qualify their murder as "execution-style," they're all still dead. Deader than doornails.

But that darned fog of war keeps obscuring all the good things we're doing in Iraq, doesn't it?

[confludemocrat]

14. They don't want to admit that groundfire is taking these copters down on reg. basis now

My god, flying over jungles in Vietnam they could escape getting blasted as much as in Iraq, but in Iraq they use them over a 90% hostile city (armed to the teeth) of, what, 6-7 million? This is sure to be a regular occurrence, since the situation is out of control there. Lawsuits by families are coming bigtime for this negligence.

[Poll_Blind]

15. 4 Americans in Iraq Crash Shot in Head

4 Americans in Iraq Crash Shot in Head

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Four of the five Americans killed when a U.S. security company's helicopter crashed in a dangerous Sunni neighborhood in central Baghdad were shot execution style in the back the head, Iraqi and U.S. officials said Wednesday.

A senior Iraqi military official said a machine gunner downed the helicopter, but a U.S. military official in Washington said there were no indications that the aircraft, owned by Blackwater USA, had been shot out of the sky. Two Sunni insurgent groups, separately, claimed responsibility for the crash.

In Washington, a U.S. defense official said four of the five killed were shot in the back of the head but did not know whether they were still alive when they were shot. The defense official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record.

The helicopter was shot down after responding to assist a U.S. Embassy ground convoy that came under fire in a Sunni neighborhood in central Baghdad, said a U.S. diplomatic official in Washington.

--snip--

  I typed up a heartfelt but wildly-inappropriate-for-posting commentary on this story. I'll leave it at "I am grateful that American soldiers did not die in this incident."

PB

[KoKo]

29. 4 of 5 were shot in the head. What about the 5th? Article doesn't

say. Does that mean four tried to get away and were shot and the fifth was already dead so they didn't bother? :shrug:

[kenny blankenship]

41. 4 mercenaries,

They left their country's borders carrying weapons and not wearing their country's uniform--as far as I'm concerned they're not Americans anymore. They're thrill-killers and deserve whatever bad shit happens to them.

[Casablanca]

16. A lesson to the Frat Boy on the realities of karmic feedback.

Too bad he's too distracted by his 24/7 imaginary power kegger to learn it.

[rocktivity]

18. Not the "mechanical trouble vs. enemy fire" debate again...

No! This time, the debate is about whether the soldiers were executed, or shot in the back of the head in the course of fighting back!

:eyes:
rocknation

P.S. A preventative action strike means never having to say you're sorry. --Doonesbury

[saigon68]

19. They weren't soldiers-------- they "were" Blackwater Inc. Mercenaries

making $2,000.00 to $3,000.00 per day

[uppityperson]

20. Not disputing being shot but only the words "execution style"?

Okay. 4 just happened to get shot in the back of the head after they crashed by accident? Or they were running away and got shot? Or what? B.S. If they got shot in the back of the head they were executed.

[rocktivity]

43. To Bush's mind, their being executed implies that they weren't competent enough

to defend themselves or get captured. It dovetails into the ban on photos of flag-draped coffins and funerals. So they spew stories about copters landing for no known reason and FOUR people getting shot in the back of your head while fighting off gunmen. It's all about cosmetics with the Bush monarchy--they aren't trying to protect anyone but themselves.

:headbang:
rocknation

[RamboLiberal]

21. Blackwater scares me in the sense that the owners

are Wingnuts. I don't like the idea of a Wingnut private army! I also don't like the fact that their facilities are used by the military, especially SpecOp forces for training. And I don't like that they protect our government officials like Bremer and Khalizad(sp). I'd rather all security forces be employed and trained by the U.S. government not mercenaries like Blackwater.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Blackwater_USA

The "About Blackwater" section of its website states: "Blackwater Training Center was founded in 1996 to fulfill the anticipated demand for government outsourcing of firearms and related security training. Located on over 6000 acres in Moyock, North Carolina (just south of the Virginia border), Blackwater has the finest private firearms training facility in the U.S. Blackwater has set a new standard for firearms and security training and is recognized as the industry leader in providing government outsource solutions in training, security, canine services, aviation support services, range construction and steel target equipment. Since its inception, Blackwater has trained over 50,000 military and law enforcement personnel and provided solutions to hundreds of satisfied customers."

Blackwater and other U.S.-based private military contractors do not only recruit Americans; according to Jonathan Franklin, former commandos from Chile are an increasing presence among private military troops in Iraq. Gary Jackson, president of Blackwater, told the British newspaper The Guardian that former Chilean commandos, "many of who had trained under the military government of Augusto Pinochet," will be sent to Iraq for a year and a half, to guard oil wells from saboteurs. "We scour the ends of the earth to find professionals - the Chilean commandos are very, very professional and they fit within the Blackwater system," said Jackson. And the private military melting pot doesn't stop there: "Squads of Bosnians, Filipinos and Americans with special forces experience have been hired for tasks ranging from airport security to protecting Paul Bremer, the head of the Coalition Provisional Authority." <11>

Colonel Thomas X. Hammes on Blackwater in Iraq: "They made enemies everywhere"
In late January 2005, journalist Tim Shorrock wrote on his blog about a conference "organized by the George Washington University Law School with support from the International Peace Operations Association, which represents, Blackwater, MPRI and other major contractors". According to Shorrock <12>:

"They made enemies everywhere," Colonel Thomas X. Hammes, an expert on guerrilla warfare and a senior fellow at the National Defense University told . He was referring to the tactics used by Blackwater USA, the North Carolina company that was hired by the Coalition Provisional Authority to provide security for L. Paul Bremer, the US administrator who was dispatched by the Bush administration to run Iraq in 2003.
A few minutes earlier, Chris Taylor, Blackwater's vice president for strategic initiatives, had boasted about the protective cordon his company provided to Bremer. Under a "turnkey security package" with the CPA, Bremer was accompanied by 36 "personnel protection specialists," two K-9 dog teams and three MD-530 helicopters built by MD Helicopters, Inc..

[coalition_unwilling]

27. Think the late Middle Ages, when each city and wealthy family (like

the Medicis) had its own private forces. That's where we've been heading under BFEE.

[Poll_Blind]

28. I fear that as well. n/t

PB

[rodeodance]

30. Americans were executed after copter crash in Iraq

http://www.startribune.com/722/v-print/story/956817.html


Last update: January 24, 2007 – 1:48 PM
Americans were executed after copter crash in Iraq

Associated Press
BAGHDAD, Iraq — Four of the five Americans killed when a U.S. security company's helicopter crashed in a dangerous Sunni neighborhood in central Baghdad were shot execution style in the back the head, Iraqi and U.S. officials said Wednesday.

A senior Iraqi military official said a machine gunner downed the helicopter, but a U.S. military official in Washington said there were no indications that the aircraft, owned by Blackwater USA, had been shot out of the sky. Two Sunni insurgent groups, separately, claimed responsibility for the crash.

In Washington, a U.S. defense official said four of the five killed were shot in the back of the head but did not know whether they were still alive when they were shot. The defense official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record.

The helicopter was shot down after responding to assist a U.S. Embassy ground convoy that came under fire in a Sunni neighborhood in central Baghdad, said a U.S. diplomatic official in Washington.

A second helicopter also was struck, but there were no casualties among its crew, said the diplomatic official, who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to make statements.

[MrSlayer]

31. No surprise there.

They were probably already dead from the crash else they would have been taken and tortured to death. Mercs live and die by the sword.

[saigon68]

32. I think this is a dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2701382&mesg_id=2701685

[aquart]

33. Uh huh.

We have no control over what mercenaries do or where the hell they go.

Another really good reason not to have them there.

[Contrary1]

34. It seems, as usual, the media has the wrong headline...

If this wording is to be used at all, it should at least have been followed by a question mark, in my opinion.

Americans were executed after copter crash in Iraq?

"In Washington, a U.S. defense official said four of the five killed were shot in the back of the head but did not know whether they were still alive when they were shot."

[Horse with no Name]

36. It's pretty self-explanatory if the gunshot wounds bled

they were alive...if they didn't...they were already dead.

[FLSurfer]

35. Kinda confused by this

"U.S. military official in Washington said there were no indications that the aircraft, owned by Blackwater USA, had been shot out of the sky"

Then later in the same story,

"A second helicopter also was struck, but there were no casualties among its crew"

[Marie26]

37. The military

doesn't want to admit that Baghdad insurgents are now able to shoot our helicopters out of the sky.

[VolcanoJen]

38. Sounds to me like...

... their sockpuppet press secretary got confused when he/she was typing this up for the press, too.

Just another sick development from the sickos that brought you The Iraq War. :-(

[Amonester]

39. Did **'s 'daddies' (the House of Saud) financed their weapons?

I heard it through the grape-vine (that the Saudis where giving US money to the Sunnis to buy guns 'n stuff).

[Straight Shooter]

40. "dangerous Sunni neighborhood" ..... what is that supposed to mean?

Is it a particular neighborhood known to be Sunni and it's also known for being dangerous, or are they implying that all Sunni neighborhoods are dangerous?

Word games mixed with mind games.

[DoYouEverWonder]

44. US contractors in Iraq shot in back of head

January 25, 2007
The Guardian

Four of five American private security contractors who died when their helicopters were attacked in a mainly Sunni neighbourhood in Baghdad on Tuesday had been shot in the back of the head, US and Iraqi officials revealed yesterday, fuelling speculation that the men were still alive after their aircraft plummeted.

But with the details shrouded in what Zalmay Khalilzad, the US ambassador, called "the fog of war", officials differed as to the attack, the number of helicopters involved, and whether those on board had been killed execution-style. There were also competing claims for the attack.

An Iraqi official said last night that three helicopters from the North Carolina security firm Blackwater, operating in Iraq since 2003, were flying over Fadhil, escorting "a VIP convoy on the ground". A US military official in Baghdad said one helicopter had swerved into electricity cables then been hit by machine gun fire; one person on board died. A second helicopter crashed after its pilot was killed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1998029,00.html

[Tin Man]

45. those wounds weren't caused by bullets - just rose petals, thrown by overly excited Iraqis...

What a clusterfuck. Get out *now*

[Say_What]

46. Oh yeah, send more troops, things are just ducky....

:sarcasm:

[mitchum]

47. In my house, we spell "private security contractors" M-E-R=C-E-N-A-R-I-E-S