Chief US military doctor in Iraq among crash dead

[MADem]

This is a big deal. While it is too easy to ignore the deaths of youngsters, what do you want to bet this will get some serious attention? This just broke on CNN HN, too:

WASHINGTON, Jan 24 (Reuters) - The U.S. military's chief medical officer for Iraq was among a group of 12 high-ranking soldiers killed on Saturday in a helicopter crash outside Baghdad, the Pentagon said on Wednesday.

Col. Brian Allgood, 46, was an orthopedic surgeon serving as command surgeon in Iraq.

He and 11 other officers, mostly combat support personnel, were on what defense officials said was likely an "orientation flight" ahead of the arrival of other soldiers. Defense officials, however, declined discuss the group's specific mission at the time of the crash.

Army officials also declined to say why a dozen high-ranking soldiers were traveling together. The group included two colonels -- the highest rank before the four-step class of generals in the U.S. Army -- as well as a lieutenant colonel, a major and a captain. ..... http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N24352935.htm

[yardwork]

1. Why did it take so long for this information to be released?

The White House and Pentagon have known about these deaths since Saturday, and we are just now learning, on Wednesday afternoon, that the victims were very high-ranking soldiers serving in Iraq.

[MADem]

4. Because there are very specific rules about senior personnel travelling together

You can't have too many bigwigs in one conveyance. There will certainly be some 'spalinin to do...

I rather doubt the reason behind it was next-of-kin notification. More likely, they hoped to slide this bad news under the radar of "Kerry Isn't Running" and the SOTU.

[sanskritwarrior]

35. Actually when a command

group goes into country, they often travel together to do a site survey as well as well as getting a look at the AO. This flight sounds like that, if this was part of the incoming Corps Support Group they're lucky they didn't lose the Major General or the Brigadier......A CSG would have 2 generals, 6 Full birds and about 2 dozen light colonels all in country at the same time.........not to mention the staff officers for those guys as well as about 10 SGM's one for each battalion in the CSG.......

[MADem]

47. All I know is I never travelled with my XOs or chiefs of staff, ever.

Without exception, even if it was a pain in the ass to make duplicate travel arrangements. Not in a car, not in a bus, not in an aircraft, not in a taxi. One had to be alive if the other croaked, simply for chain of command continuity. Now, if all of these people were from different commands, that might be a different kettle of fish. But in any event, it's asking for trouble to pack your senior personnel in like sardines....

[tanyev]

5. Purposely released AFTER the SOTU.

Betcha.

[Captain Hilts]

7. Notification of kin, etc. I have no problem with this delay. nt

[MADem]

14. It doesn't take that long, really. I doubt that is the real reason.

In fact, if I were betting on it, I'd bet they held it for a busy news moment, like right after Kerry announced he wasn't running. The better to slide it under the wire...

They EASILY could have released the fact that the passenger list was high-ranking without releasing the names. They release ranks all the time--we hear it every day. "A Marine Lance Corporal was killed today in Anbar Province...an Army Sergeant was killed today and three others wounded in an IED attack in Baghdad....names are withheld pending notification of next of kin."

Make NO mistake...this is a BIG DEAL. This is a complete disregard of standing orders, of standard operating procedures, and it suggests that the entire outfit is patched together with bubble gum and baling wire, organizationally speaking, anyway. There's no leadership, there's no standards, and this is how it is showing. Stupid shortcut, and it cost them a load of management talent in an already stretched military....

[MnFats]

25. and did someone who knew tell the militias/death squads?

someone in iraq would no doubt pay a lot to learn who was on that helicopter.

[MADem]

34. You know, my first instinct was to think "naah" but then I thought again. You might well be right

on that score. How hard is it for some local national worker to signal someone that there's bigwigs aboard one of the choppers getting ready to launch? Hell, pick up the phone, call Auntie Fatima and tell her, nudge, nudge, that you won't be home for dinner, wink, wink....

If you're going to crush morale, that's the way to do it. And I hate to say it, but if they start targeting the senior ranks, good order and discipline will go to shit. The seniors will get nervous and frightened, some, naturally, will start behaving in cowardly fashion, there will be a breakdown in good order and discipline, and, if you think Cindy Sheehan knows how to call attention to the death of her son, you haven't seen the pissed-off wife of an 0-6 or flag/general officer when 'proper attention' isn't paid.

They actually give the spouses of those in command a full fledged seminar on how to be a CO's spouse, and it includes things like public speaking and formulating arguments. They expect those tools to be used in an ombudsmanlike capacity, but they're creating aggressive, articulate monsters if their husbands/wives start dropping like flies. These folks know the CACO manual back and forth, too. It could get strident if this "senior targeting" is a new strategy on the part of the insurgents.

I can just see these spouses asking questions--and they'll use the media in ways that the spouse of a young 20 year old who just lost their 22 year old husband or wife couldn't even begin to imagine. It will be hell to pay...

Many people are too young to remember Mrs. McCain, John's wife. No, not the trophy he married after fucking his way from DC to Hawaii, the FIRST Mrs. McCain, I think her name was Carol. Despite serious illness after a car wreck, she almost singlehandedly kept the POW issue front and center, while her husband was suffering so terribly in captivity. That bastard owes his life to that woman, and he treated her rather badly...IMO.

But, to return to my point, that's just one example of what a determined wife with public speaking talent, absolute determination, and sheer presence can do....put enough senior spouses in that sort of position, and it could get interesting. They won't go gently, not by a long shot.

[sanskritwarrior]

36. Yesterday morning (Tuesday morning)

icasualties.com already had the Colonel as well as the SGM and the Major and Captain........

[RamboLiberal]

17. Actually I saw it in a headline on Monday

Believe it was on CNN or MSNBC's website. But on clicking the headline it was never referenced in the story. Then of course that headline was changed later in the day. I remember it because I was going to post it here.

[MADem]

19. CNN carried it as "Breaking News" Not the crash, the paygrades of the dead.

They interrupted their regular flow of stories to report it, and read it off the wire.


The crash was of course known, it was the fact that the senior medical guy in country, plus so many senior and field grade officers, died all at once--that was the "news" part. If it were one senior officer, that's one thing, but all of these personnel at once tells us that rules are being ignored and that discipline and adherence to regulations is suffering for whatever reason...

[madrchsod]

2. that`s not good at all

looks like the coordinators/liaison officers of the "surge" not good at all

[BOSSHOG]

3. More orthopedic surgeons die in car wrecks then in Iraq

Hell lets all just think like "conservatives." Dead doctor, no big deal. We gotta surge. We gotta kill and blow up things and spread "conservative" values throughout the middle east (wherever that is.) Oh ya'll know what "we" mean when we say "we!"

[Straight Shooter]

16. Yeah, and he was 46. He probably would have only lived another 30, 40 years.

And we don't know that he would have had a good life.

Ouch. Thinking like a conservative makes my brain hurt.

[Leopolds Ghost]

43. "I'm not saying we didn't get our hair mussed, but only 30-40 dead doctors... tops."

[DURHAM D]

6. Is this the chopper they said was Blackwater ? n/t

[uppityperson]

9. no, this is another one. I think 12 died in this one.

RIP Orthosurgeon Allgood. (hmm, interesting name for an orthosurgeon. "How'd it go?" "Allgood")

[MADem]

11. I do not believe so. The BW guys were shot in the back of the head after the

helo was shot down...or hit wires and crashed...it is still unclear. That crash happened yesterday, this military casualty one happened on Saturday See this story:


BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Four of the five Americans killed when a U.S. security company's helicopter crashed in a dangerous Sunni neighborhood in central Baghdad were shot execution style in the back the head.....A senior Iraqi military official said a machine gunner downed the helicopter, but a U.S. military official in Washington said there were no indications that the aircraft, owned by Blackwater USA, had been shot out of the sky. Two Sunni insurgent groups, separately, claimed responsibility for the crash.

In Washington, a U.S. defense official said four of the five killed were shot in the back of the head but did not know whether they were still alive when they were shot. The defense official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak ...The helicopter was shot down after responding to assist a U.S. Embassy ground convoy that came under fire in a Sunni neighborhood in central Baghdad, said a U.S. diplomatic official in Washington.

A second helicopter also was struck, but there were no casualties among its crew, said the diplomatic official, who spoke anonymously because he was not authorized to make statements.

The doomed helicopter swooped into electrical wires before the crash. U.S. officials said it was not clear if gunfire brought the aircraft down or caused its pilot to veer into the wires during evasive maneuvers.....

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/24/iraq.helicopter.crash.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[saigon68]

12. No the mercenaries got smoked in another shootdown

[peace13]

8. Well I am so glad we have a plan now!

I am so sorry for the loss of these lives. The loss of the experience of these individuals will impact all troops. I know parents that won't fly together on the same plane. Why oh why would they all fly together?

[aquart]

10. Damn.

[kestrel91316]

13. So now we're sending orthopedic surgeons into harm's way

as cannon fodder. Very intelligent.

We are going to need SEVERAL guillotines at this rate.

[MADem]

15. It was, apparently, an orientation flight.

Perhaps he was a travelling doc, who would have been expected to hop from one FOB to the next every so often...

It's a dreadful event, at any rate.

[Recursion]

18. What was going on?

Why *were* two full birds and a light bird in one helicopter? This is why you don't do that.

[MADem]

20. Orientation flight, they said. Bad judgment, certainly. NT

[Tin Man]

21. Wow, two full-bird colonels... those are lofty officers, and aren't often killed in hostile action

And considering it looks like the helo was brought down by hostile fire, makes me wonder if the insurgents had knowledge of the nature of the passengers onboard, and specifically targeted that flight ???

[proust78]

22. it's not just the infantry anymore...

two helicopter shootdowns in a week seem like a major escalation, like they've picked up on something to be more successful at bringing them down. shootdowns could happen every week from now on. more VIP's than grunts are going to be in the helicopters, and when the war starts hitting them much worse it could cause a lot of high ranking soldiers to lose the little faith they have in BushCo.

[ellisonz]

37. Welcome to DU! Welcome to Vietnam! Welcome to Afghanistan! Welcome to Mogadishu!

:yourock:
:hi:

[Tin Man]

23. Maybe the insurgents had specific knowledge of the flight? Either that, or they got real lucky...

sure killed alot of important guys... 12 birds with 1 stone. Maybe the insurgents were targeting this flight ??? Is that also why the military is reluctant to discuss the details ???

[Irreverend IX]

24. So they're taking high-ranking officers on "orientation flights..."

Above one of the world's most violent cities? Something's really fucked up with the military to allow this to happen. As an aside, does anyone know if it's possible to down a helicopter with small arms (i.e. AK47) fire? Or does the fact it was shot down pretty much guarantee that the insurgents have anti-aircraft missiles?

[MADem]

38. It could be an in-theater orientation for those who are expected to travel in-country

between forward operating bases...that's my suspicion. Either that, or people who, by reason of their seniority, have responsibilities at those other bases and need to know where they are.

It's not the flights in and of themselves, it's the 'clumping' of passengers that was stupid. And I'm thinking they're lacking decent intel too, if they aren't anticipating these shootdowns and working to counteract them...there have been too many lately--is it luck on the part of the insurgents, careful planning, or are they getting information they are using to hit the helos effectively?

[sanskritwarrior]

40. You got the orientation part right

As for the clumping, that is now standard. There are 3 Blackhawks you have 32 pax, the command staff will ride together as they will be able to talk over the Blackhawk headsets to pass information. If this was the CSG that I think, they would have demanded they ride together.

As for the Sam threat, there has been none forever. MANPADS are not exactly something that we see on a regular basis. The same goes for NBC gear, soldiers now deploy with their PRO mask but no JLIST suit. (JLIST replaced old MOPP suits). So basically our Chemical protection is our mask, we no longer carry real atropine and we do not have NBC suits as the risk is minimal. Until Saturday the same could be said about MANPADS, now we will have to reevaluate.....

[MADem]

42. When did they change that reg?

And (rhetorically, of course) how long before they change it back? And who was the nitwit who signed off on it?

Good grief. They're gonna run out of bodies at this rate, even pulling them in from Germany and Italy.

Edit: stuck keyboard keys.

[antiimperialist]

26. At least 69 killed in sectarian violence today

Besides the US soldiers executed after falling from the helicopter:

17 Shiites killed by car bomb (33 wounded).
10 dead in Kirkuk car bomb.
Many bodies found shot and tortured.

Link

[wishlist]

27. ABC news covered story tonight and showed their pictures. Very sad nt

[tanyev]

33. Although I watched the broadcast specifically to see if they would mention

this story and it was the 4th or 5th story in, and it was very quick. Just mentioned the incident, showed the pics, rattled off names and rank. On to the next story.

I would have thought this would be huge. Maybe there will be more as more information comes out. (Or not.)

[Imagevision]

28. And the maniac responsible for this insists sending another 22,000 for the slaughter

[karlrschneider]

29. My little brother knew him in college. They had several classes together.

...

[MadMaddie]

30. The question is asked

<snip>
Army officials also declined to say why a dozen high-ranking soldiers were traveling together.
<snip>


This is a very bad sign for our military. This tells me that protocol is breaking down and if rules like this are beng broken than a thousand more are being broken. Which means our troops are in trouble.

Perhaps some of our military DU'rs can elaborate on this. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[MADem]

39. You aren't wrong.

When the basic rules and regulations start getting ignored, and shortcuts become SOP, it's not good. It suggests a deterioration in professionalism, at minimum, and suggests an inability to do it the right way, for whatever reasons, at worst.

[sanskritwarrior]

41. This doesn't mean that at all

I once took a flight from FOB Junction City in Ramadi to BIAP, we flew over Habbaniyah, Khaldiyah and Fallujah in 2004. On that flight we had the Brigade commander, his CSM, 2 Battalion Commanders, myself (an E6 at the time), 2 Privates and a Blackwater guy. They were travelling together as the MNC-Baghdad commander had requested them to come to a planning meeting at Camp victory.

This is not unusual or a sign of discipline breakdown. The weird thing is the Flight Crew was SSG's and SFC's. It sounds like they took their own Helicopter crew........I don't know many Crew cheifs who are E-7's. That strikes me as weird, not the passengers.

I have some stories about all the flights I took in country in my 2 tours......

All the following were in blackhawks with me

There was the time I had 6 Kurdish businessmen escorted by 2 SF guys

The 3 one star generals and their aides

The entire blackhawk full of heavily armed Blackwater guys and me and a private

And the time we had 4 dallas cowboy cheerleaders, 2 colonels, myself and some brazilian from the UN......

Ah the stories I could tell about Blackhawks........ :D

[number6]

31. a surge alright ..... a surge in death :(

:scared::scared::scared::nuke::cry:

[july302001]

32. a shame -

Oh this is such a shame. This man was obviously a truly expert orthopedist.

They've been trying to run this war on the cheap from the beginning, which guarantees a wreck.

Remember that there may be CO's among the medical people.

The mgmt. of this war is nothing short of disaster.

And, yes, I was against the war back in 2002 before it started.

Now it needs to stop.

[Marrah_G]

44. So sad.....

Sometimes you think "so and so is an officer, he'll be okay. Officers rarely get killed. Then you see something like this and realize that you've been fooling yourself.

Maybe this will wake up even more of the country, when they see it isn't only poor kids or working class reservists getting killed.

At this point I don't know what it is going to take to stop the monster in the White House... Notorized video tape of him having sex with a young boy and Barney? Proof of the lies, deception and treason certainly haven't been enough. Still he marches us closer and closer the the edge of the cliff shouting "Stay the course, stay the course".

[seafan]

45. Top U.S. surgeon in Iraq killed in Black Hawk crash

Top U.S. surgeon in Iraq killed in crash

By JEFF LATZKE, Associated Press Writer
January 25, 2007

OKLAHOMA CITY - The top U.S. surgeon in Iraq was among the 12 soldiers killed when a Black Hawk helicopter crashed near Baghdad, military officials said Thursday.

Col. Brian D. Allgood, 46, was one of two active-duty soldiers killed in Saturday's crash in Diyala province northeast of Baghdad. The 10 others were members of the National Guard, making it the deadliest single combat incident for the Guard since at least the Korean War, said Mark Allen, a National Guard Bureau spokesman.

A Pentagon official has said debris at the crash site indicated the helicopter was downed by a surface-to-air missile, but American military officials in Baghdad have declined to confirm that.

The military has relied heavily in the Iraq war on the Guard, which provided about 50 percent of the Army's combat power in the campaign during 2005, Allen said.
The percentage has been scaled back. As of Jan. 12, there were 22,500 Army National Guard soldiers deployed among the 132,000 U.S. troops in Iraq and 10,000 in transit.

Allgood, whose father and two uncles served in Vietnam, had spent more than 20 years in the military.

"Brian was a wonderful human being," his mother, Cleo Allgood, told The Gazette of Colorado Springs, Colo. "He was a wonderful brother, son, husband and father. He just was a giving person who served his country."

snip

[MADem]

46. What a shame. He was deployed out of Germany, I believe.

His family will be triply discombobulated; first, by his terrible death, next, by not having their immediate family close at hand, and third, by having to leave the installation and go back to the states without any advance preparation or anticipation.

It's got to be hellish for them.