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Newsjock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 10:31 PM
Original message
Feinstein Caught in Conflict of Interest on Military Contracts
http://aan.org/alternative/Aan/ViewArticle?oid=oid%3A177965

San Jose, Calif., January 25, 2007 -- Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s husband was a major beneficiary of military appropriations blessed by a subcommittee that she headed, Metro Newspapers reports this week.

Feinstein (D-Calif.) acted in a conflict of interest while approving billions of dollars in military construction expenditures for the global war on terror, according to an investigative story by award-winning journalist Peter Byrne. The story was published jointly in the North Bay Bohemian and Metro Silicon Valley weekly newspapers this week. Research assistance was provided by the Investigative Fund of the Nation Institute.

Following Feinstein’s participation at the legislative level, large contracts were awarded to two firms — URS Corporation and Perini Corporation — that were controlled by an investment group headed by the senator’s spouse, financier Richard C. Blum.

... The story published in the North Bay Bohemian and Metro Silicon Valley examines the many ways in which Sen. Feinstein committed repeated breaches of ethics as MILCON's chairwoman or ranking member from 2001-2005.

Story here: http://metroactive.com/feinstein/index.html
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salib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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Clinton_Co_Regulator Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Investigative Fund of the Nation Institute
Research assistance was provided by http://www.nationinstitute.org/about/

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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Not good.
I don't like this at all.
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KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hmm. Didn't know that congress signs the deals...
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 11:45 PM by KAZ
... maybe because they don't. Still worth looking into, but what's this "legislative level" crap. Authorizing, does not a deal make.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. I read both links. The 2nd is long and detailed and quite
damning on the face of it. I'll be very interested to read her response/defense.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. this is not news!
I thought everybody knew why she supported the invasion & occupation - she's reaping the benefits.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I also assumed everyone knew....
She has SERIOUS 'conflict of interest' issues. Her Hubby is a military contractor.

Here in CA we have a 'replace Feinstein' movement every once in awhile.


She is a liberal until it hits her families pocketbook.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
42. eh, not that liberal
not IMO, anyway.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Exactly - The news media @ the time would report in paragraph
Five about Feinstein approving something related to the war and then two paragraphs later mention that her husband was in line to receive a no-bid contract for the very same approved items.

Her hubby has gotten at least 28 million in contracts from this foul war - and they recently bought a place in San Francisco - the morning paper announced their new home had "views to die for"

And believe me, some people did have to die for those views.
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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Shortly after the war started
She and her husband bought a $19+ million dollar home in Pacific Heights. Wonder where that Christmas bonus came from?
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aggiesal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. I agree. I've been saying that she's been voting her own pocketbook ...
She's representing her husbands interests and not ours.
I would not vote for her in this past election.
I was hoping that the democrats would put up a viable option
and get rid of her.
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #19
29. This is just one more example of why their should
be term limits in congress.
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junior college Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
52. 10-4
Over and out
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'll await further information. Unfortunately, while her actions may be questionable, they are
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 11:28 PM by mzmolly
likely legal. And, she may meet previous ethical standards as well as she was cleared of wrong doing.

According to Klein, the Senate Select Committee on Ethics ruled, in secret, that Feinstein did not have a conflict of interest with Perini because, due to the existence of the bid and project lists provided by Klein, she knew when to recuse herself. Klein says that after URS declined to participate in his conflict-of-interest prevention plan, the ethics committee ruled that Feinstein could act on matters that affected URS because she did not have a list of URS' needs. That these confidential rulings are contradictory is obvious and calls for explanation.

Klein declined to produce copies of the Perini project lists that he transmitted to Feinstein. And neither he nor Feinstein would furnish copies of the ethics committee rulings, nor examples of the senator recusing herself from acting on legislation that affected Perini or URS. But the Congressional Record shows that as chairperson and ranking member of MILCON, Feinstein was often involved in supervising the legislative details of military construction projects that directly affected Blum's defense-contracting firms.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. The easy comeback, however,
is that she ran against corruption in Congress, and wanting a higher ethical standard than repubs wanted. She's said their standards are dirty and she and her party are better than that--so a clean bill of health from ethics committee is, by her own words, insufficient.

Unless we want to say that the repub standards were good as gold.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Actually, Republicans didn't get a clean bill of health from the ethics committee.
Edited on Fri Jan-26-07 05:36 PM by mzmolly
In fact some of them are in JAIL because of high level corruption. Further, it seems to me that Republicans simply "resent" when Democrats have wealth and enjoy success in business? They appear to hold Democrats to unattainable standards, and themselves - to none.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. If she is guilty, I have no sympathy
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 11:14 PM by Zodiak Ironfist
I cannot stand war profiteers, and I especially cannot stand them in our midst. They give Democrats a bad name, they blunt our efforts to promote peace and cooperation, and their greed denies copious funds to people who need it (both in the military and outside of it).

If she is innocent...great. But it sure doesn't look like it from reading the article.

What are the rules for California having a Senator step down? Does the governor appoint a new one or is there a special election? If there is a special election....I'll take my chances trying to get a Democrat that has a better voting record than she does. But I do not want the Gropinator anywhere near getting the power to appoint someone....his "bipartisanship" and "centrism" will melt away in a New York minute and we'll get a Republican Senate.

Kohl (Wisconsin) DLC 44.82758621
Feinstein (California) DLC 44.82758621
Leiberman (Connecticut) DLC 44.82758621
Rockefeller (West Virginia) 41.37931034
Conrad (North Dakota) DLC 41.37931034
Baucus (Montana) DLC 39.65517241
Carper (Deleware) DLC 34.48275862
Johnson (South Dakota) DLC 31.03448276
Lincoln (Arkansas) DLC 31.03448276
Salazar (Colorado) DLC 24.13793103
Pryor (Arkansas) DLC 22.4137931
Nelson (Florida) DLC 20.68965517
Landrieu (Louisianna) DLC 17.24137931
Nelson (Nebraska) DLC 3.448275862

On my list, Feinstein has an equivalent voting percentage to Leiberman.

Even if what she did wasn't technically "illegal", but still improper, it does not serve the Democrats well to have her on an ethics committee.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Not news
If this was such a huge issue the pukes would have gone after her already and tried to knock her off like they did with Davis. That they didn't is very telling.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. This is not the type of an issue the Republicans would attack on
They do not want us looking at war profiteering and they do not want to bring this issue to people's attention. The consequences for them attacking Feinstein on this would be too high, they will go after her on other issues but this is an issue that is way too dangerous for them to attack on.
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. They would have when they had the power to back it up
If they did so when they were in charge they would have been able to spin their way out of it, if they do so now they look like sour grapes.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Never cared for the woman.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. Time to rid ourselves of DiFi - "The War Horse" in Progressive Clothing. n/t
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Isthathwryrgnabe Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. What, is this not the same bull crap?
Well, where are the protests?
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Feinstein
is no better than Dick Cheney. She is profiting off this war just like him. She needs to be sent to the Hague as well.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. INDEED.
Sing it!

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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. I protested in the voting booth
and by NOT supporting her candidacy in any way in 2006. And yes, it most certainly is the same bull crap. The progressives on this board and elsewhere have been screaming about "DiFi" for a very long time.
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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. MAybe we can finally be
rid of the Vichy Democrat
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. Wonder how many other Dems profitting from war Contracts, Feinstein isn't the
only one, no-wonder they jumped on the vote to go to war, I'm being sarcastic, but I know I'm not all that wrong either!!
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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
21. I am going to post this in the CA forum NT
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
23. there should be a very clear investigation. if it proves true,
she should resign or be kicked out.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
24. My indignation is cheneyed-out on conflict of interest.
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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
25. So, Will Arnold appoint a Republican to take her place?
Has she been proven guilty yet? Beyond a resonable doubt?

What about Halliburton no-bid contracts? Why is that alright? Not to mention Bush and his Pals? Bush & Pals Make here seem like Jesus Christ!

For Arnold to appoint a Republican in her place will solve everything? What about Hastert? I would think there are so many who should be investigated before she. The Republican controlled Congress was the lowest of low, the worst I can remember. We have seen how a Republican controlled Congress works.
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
26. I Wondered What Was Up With Her
Seems we might have an explanation for her selling out our kids. I wrote to her many times asking howshe could support this invasion and telling her that I would never vote for her again. And I haven't. (I probably would have broken down, last election, if we had been in danger of losing her seat, but we weren't.) At least we still have Boxer, a true patriot.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
27. Come on DU, where is that righteous indignation that we would be seeing
Edited on Fri Jan-26-07 05:51 AM by acmavm
if this was a republican? Where is the sense of morality when it is one of ours?

It's been in the news over and over and over that she and her husband have been big time beneficiaries of this war. Not as big as some, but no small potatoes.

Does anyone still have the picture of that beautiful square that was in front of their new mansion? You know, the one the allowed to workment and movers to destroy during the renovations?

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank02282006.html

<snip>

Sen. Dianne Feinstein and her mega-millionaire husband, Dick Blum, have a bit of fence mending to do with their soon-to-be neighbors in San Francisco's Gold Coast.

It seems that workers remodeling the Pacific Heights mansion that the couple just bought leveled all the green in the adjoining public garden -- without the city's approval.

And not just any green -- we're talking about a Tivoli-style garden just off the front entrance of the couple's $16.5 million abode, which sits at the foot of Vallejo Street, between the Presidio and some of the city's most posh residences.










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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. tell me again
what is the difference between her and a corporate owned repuke? Those photos are disgusting. So many represenatives in DC are consumed by wealth and greed they do not give a fuck for us or our country. Not a fuck.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. Here's a idea
read the posts in this thread.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
48. I'll never forgive her
Edited on Sun Jan-28-07 08:54 PM by fujiyama
for backing Bush's first legislative victory - his tax cuts. Since then, it's been pretty clear she's in the senate to forward the interests of her husband and other wealthy corporate contributors and backers.

If you've been reading DU for a while, it'd be pretty clear that many of us have known that about DINO Feinstein.



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mitchleary Donating Member (271 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
33. So because repukes do it...........
that absolves her from responsibility? How many of hated people defending *, by bringing up Clinton? What a hypocritical b!tch. She is so anti-firearm, it is scary, but has not problem making money off of providing guns to the military.
This needs to be investigasted, we cannot be enablers like the repukes.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
34. surprise surprise---nail that warmonger to the wall
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
35. GOOD. I've been waiting for the political demise of this DINO warmonger pain-in-the-ass
Feinstein and Lieberman are two peas in a pod. WORTHLESS DEMS. Good riddance.

It's high time that we CLEANED HOUSE (and Senate).

J
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
36. This is why Pelosi didn't want Feinstein as head of the committee
and why Feinstein didn't tell Pelosi everything she knew about the lies Bush told.

I am so glad this story is getting some press.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. Please stop posting lies about Democrats!
Speaker Pelosi never expressed any desire that Senator Feinstein not serve on any committees.
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Feinstein is in the Senate; Pelosi is not
You're thinking of Jane Harman (Harmon?), I think. SHE's in the House.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
37. buh-bye DiFi....
One can always hope.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. She was just reelected by an even larger landslide than Boxer won by two years earlier
I don't think that she is going anywhere she doesn't want to go.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks to Newtie's revolution and Contract On America
We've privatized our elections, our congress, our defense, our public forum... we're so deep into this doodoo that I purpose the campaign slogan:

"NATIONALIZE OUR GOVERNMENT."
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Morgana LaFey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
45. I'd be in favor of forcing her to resign, were it not for Arnold
I don't want the Senate to turn Repug, again. When is she up for re-election?

Shame, shame on her. SHAME on her.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
46. She is a woman. She is a Democrat. And, because she is a warmonger, the
war profiteering corporate news monopolies have protected her. Her war profiteering was not widely known. (Any decent news media would have crucified her long ago on her conflicts of interest.) And I presume that these are the reasons she won reelection. Woman. Democrat. Most voters didn't have a clue. It also may be attributable to Diebold/ES&S, who I think used their power selectively in '06 to tailor a Congress that has a Democratic ambience but is hamstrung on stopping the war and impeaching Bush/Cheney. The voters outvoted the machines, in some cases, but not in this one, because the voters didn't have the information they needed to make a judgment, the Republican was a total asshole, nobody ran against her in the primary, and the Greens (who had a great candidate) don't have a chance with this corporate media and have no money to compensate for that.

I am pretty much a straight Democratic Party ticket voter and have been for 40 years, but I couldn't bring myself to vote for her this time because of the war. It's possible I might have, if she had been in any trouble this election, because I felt that it was important to send an OVERWHELMINGLY Democratic message to DC. Though she can barely be placed in the category of "Democrat," she has the label. A lot of people probably thought that way--especially looking at her Republican opposition (a really terrible Bushite puke). And women probably thought she was safe on women's issues (even if they didn't like her war stance). That nobody ran against her in the primary is a real political tragedy, in my opinion. There was talk of Cindy Sheehan running, but no dice--Cindy didn't want it. So there was no option at that stage. I voted for Todd Chretien in the general election--a fabulous candidate of the Green Party. A TRUE Democrat, in my view. But I realized he had no chance--just did it to "send a message" to Feinstein.

To get back to Diebold/ES&S. This is a BIG FACTOR in California elections. It's a long story, but, basically, any true representative of the people, running in a competitive race, has to win with a 5% to 10% handicap against them ("thumb on the scales" for Bushites, warmongers and corporatists). For '06, we had a Diebold shill as Sec of State, appointed by Schwarzenegger, after our good Sec of State, Kevin Shelley, was "swift-boated" out of office, after he sued Diebold, decertified their touchscreens and demanded to see their source code, prior to the '04 election. (Note: important to know--the state Dem Party establishment is dirty on Diebold issues and abandoned Shelley.) The Diebold shill (McPherson), that Schwarzenegger appointed to the office (with the collusion of the Dem state legislature), illegally re-certified the touchscreens for '06, surrounded himself with Diebold advisers and operated in secrecy. So, who knows who won what in California in '06? It is NOT POSSIBLE to tell. It is only possible to GUESS.

The sole Democratic winners in the state offices in '06 were Jerry Brown (name recognition) for AG, and...the miracle of the '06 election...Debra Bowen for Sec of State (she's no Kevin Shelley, but is nevertheless a very good, open government politician--very trustworthy). Two factors in Bowen's election: 1) the Dem grass roots in Calif were really hot on the Diebold issue, and managed to bump a clueless candidate and probable Diebold tool out of the race in the primary, giving Bowen the nomination; 2) the voters in California voted FIFTY PERCENT by Absentee Ballot (a huge increase), indicating high voter awareness of the voting machine issue, and they just plain outvoted the machines, to put a high vigilance Sec of State in office--Bowen probably won by a lot of more than the official totals indicate.

As to Diebold/ES&S capability in California: In '04, Barbara Boxer won the state with a 20% margin. Kerry won the state with a 10% margin. This might not be so strange (Boxer a very popular incumbent), except that the difference between Boxer and Kerry is to be found entirely in the Republican counties. Go figure. I think what they did was to switch Kerry votes to Bush in Republican counties (least noticeable), in the GEMS tabulators (central electronic tabulators), in order to help manufacture Bush's national popular majority. (This weird discrepancy occurs across the board in Republican counties, whatever the voting method--punchcard, optiscan, touchscreen or AB vote--but they are all, of course, processed through Diebold tabulators). They didn't steal Boxer's election because it would have been too noticeable and too risky--and, anyway, her anti-war stance in the Senate gets canceled by Feinstein's pro-war stance.

Also, Boxer's opponent was a "moderate" Republican--a potential rival to Schwarzenegger if he had done well against Boxer. Schwarzenegger is a Bushite in sheep's clothing--handpicked to prevent Calif from recovering the $9 billion that Enron stole, and to inflict that theft on Calif's poor--and to Bushify the state as much as possible. The '03 recall election--weirdest election ever, with 125 candidates on the ballot--was the first full-on Diebold election in California. Very easy to re-distribute votes randomly among 125 candidates, and put a famous actor--to whom the Time magazine/Larry King crowd gave millions of dollars in additional free publicity--in the governor's mansion. A total sham. The recall occurred before Shelley--who had been elected in '02--could get his pencils sharpened. But, as soon as he did get his pencils sharpened, he went after Diebold (and paid for it with his career).

We have some VERY DIRTY county election officials in California--led by Connie McCormack in Los Angeles, but mostly in Republican counties. No problem for them to wink at anomalous numbers favoring Bush--or Schwarzenegger.

I'm not saying that some voters aren't just plain stupid. I know some who voted for Schwarzenegger in '06 out of just plain stupidity. (Schwarzenegger exudes some kind of Clintonesque pheromones to some people--especially young men who have visions of prosperity and the "California dream" dancing in their heads.) But the stupidity factor is always there. It's hazard of democracy. Add in all the rest--that Bushite corporations control the vote totals with "trade secret," proprietary programming code, corrupt election officials, filthy campaign financing with multi-millionaires buying offices, the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, etc.--and you have a situation in which--as I said above--you really DON'T KNOW. If all these things weren't the case, Todd Chretien would probably be our other U.S. Senator--and deservedly so.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. One more thing. Feinstein heads the Senate committee on elections. I just
howled when I learned that. The pale reform that Russ Holt has proposed (HR 550)--leaving the Bushite electronic voting corporations in place, but requiring a "paper trail" and a 2% audit (extremely inadequate--but better than 0%, currently, in many states*)--may not make it past Feinstein unmolested.

-----

*(Venezuela handcounts FIFTY-FIVE PERCENT of the votes, cuz they don't trust the voting machines. That's why they have a good leftist president and we have a murdering, lying, fascist psycho.)
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Contrite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. I howled as well
in pain.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-28-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
49. And she was the Chairperson of that committee?
Shame - shame - shame.........
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-29-07 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
50. Some of us (leftists) have known about this for a while now
n/t
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