U.N. adopts Holocaust denial resolution

[struggle4progress]

By ALEXANDRA OLSON
The Associated Press

UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. General Assembly adopted a resolution Friday condemning the denial of the Holocaust, with only Iran rejecting it as an attempt by the United States and Israel to exploit the atrocity for their political interests ...

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/international/index.ssf?/base/international-36/1169858363124070.xml&storylist=international

[Little Wing]

1. That's some ugly politics right there

sheesh

[WindRavenX]

3. sometimes this is really a mad, mad world

Can you imagine how a holocaust survivor feels about this? Must be a fucking mindtrip.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. I can't speak for holocaust survivors.

But to me it seems that what's insulting to the holocaust is using "holocaust denial" as part of a propaganda movement ultimately in support of a war in Iran.

[WindRavenX]

5. that too, no doubt

But people are buying it entirely. What better justification to invade Iran?

[Name removed]

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[WindRavenX]

9. !

:rofl:

[Little Wing]

6. Iran has nothing to gain by denying the holocaust

I don't get it.

Politicians are typically smarter than that, our own aside of course. How does Iran benefit from this? That's the question.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Oh, just to piss people off.

And embarass the United States. It's not coincidence they invited David Duke to their shindig.

[WindRavenX]

11. I don't think it's about gaining

I think it's about starting a massive cluster fuck--trying to bait Israel.

[Amused Musings]

18. It is used to delegitimize the existence of Israel

as the Holocaust is frequently cited as one of the main reasons that the Jews need a state of their own because they are not safe anywhere. I disagree with this reasoning somewhat but that is not the point. What I find unusual is that Iranians have been saying this since the Revolution. I imagine the acquiring of a nuclear weapon has given strength to a previously rhetorical stance about destroying Israel. The thing is, I doubt the Iranians would use it against Israel for one important reason: The Mullahs, for all their focus on the afterlife, do not want to be there themselves. Much like the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the ruling class do not want to die in a thermonuclear exchange. One can figure out where a nuclear weapon came from by the radiation and if Iran ever did this, any surviving Mullahs would be ruling over a radioactive crater. Of course there are groups that do not care and would use a nuclear weapon in a heartbeat, but this is why the Iranian government would not give them one.

[Little Wing]

19. Well stated

Despite your preface of Amused Musings

[sanskritwarrior]

38. That's easy

there are many in Iran that truly believe the Holocaust did not happen. There are members of Iran's government that are batshit crazy, seriously...........

[Nihil]

40. Nice to see ...

... that the US armed forces in the Middle East are neutral in their views ...
:eyes:

[sanskritwarrior]

46. LOL

I am free to be what I want off duty........

[sfwriter]

2. No Doubt... EOM

[LaBanty]

8. BFD

Most people in today's world would not think to deny the holocaust, as Iran (and some other Arab nations) have. So, who does this affect? Not you or me, or almost all of the world. Certainly, you can't force Iran to stop denying it, just by reaffirming what the rest of the world already knows.

This is another bullshit, toothless, UN resolution that impacts virtually no one, and does not suddenly cause a country like Iran to say, "Gee, you're right. We're sorry. We'll apologize to (who we refer to as) the sons of monkey and pigs and play nice."

This doesn't force Iran to be any less of a Jew-hating piece of shit. And, since the UN bothers to enforce nothing, it was a pointless announcement to begin with.

[struggle4progress]

29. I don't share your contempt for the UN: with imperfect tools, one makes better tools.

Our ancestors used to bang rocks together to make knives and used to rub sticks together to make fire: once able to do that, they were then able to do greater things.

The UN has a solid history of accomplishment: it eradicated smallpox, for example. Imperfect tool that it is, such an organization will have a role to play if the citizens of this world really intend to address a number of potential planet-wide catastrophes that we are facing.

Holocaust denial rhetoric from Iran naturally produces a combination of rage and military posture in Israel tending to destabilize the region, and the resolution sends a message that Iran will hear. It's likely most Iranians, like most people in the world, being fundamentally decent folk, will notice and will be embarrassed by the fact that every other country in the world condemns holocaust denial, exactly as I am embarrassed by the world's reaction to the policies of the US President.

[Name removed]

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[JohnLocke]

34. I think he got it just about right.

[sanskritwarrior]

39. I tend to think that

someone that denies the Holocaust is a jew hater and if you are a hater, you are a piece of shit........It makes total sense.....

[Name removed]

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[WindRavenX]

13. The Holocaust happened.

No one is "banning" holocaust deniers. They should, however, be publicly condemned, just like the UN did.

[struggle4progress]

22. Some of us take "Never again!" very seriously. Denying that deliberate mass extermination

occurred is dishonest to the point of moral corruption.

[Journeyman]

26. So you'll be protesting tomorrow at the gates of the Turkish Embassy. . .

joining the Armenians in their century-old quest for recognition of the genocide that claimed 1.5 million lives? You'll be prostrating yourself before the Russian Consulate, demanding acknowledgment of Stalin's genocide of 8 million Kulaks in the '30s? And you'll march before the Belgian Diplomatic Mission, seeking redress for the 12 to 32 million slaughtered during King Leopold II's bloody colonial rule in the Congo?

There are plenty of historical mass exterminations denied and covered over on an almost daily basis. My point is that no one should have the authority or the right to deny anyone the opportunity to discuss and educate the world about these attrocities. And my belief in the sanctity of free speech prohibits me from denying the naysayers, as well.

"Errors of opinion may be tolerated," said Tom Jefferson, "where reason is left free to combat it."

[struggle4progress]

28. Tomorrow is the 51st anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz ..

.. by the Soviet army and would normally (did it not fall on a Saturday) be considered the International Day in Memory of the Victims of the Holocaust.

To me it seems entirely appropriate, when people claim those atrocities did not occur, to express indignation and even revulsion: in fact, I would consider it a moral failure not to express disgust when liars try to hide history. If you have evidence that the United Nations General Assembly has gone beyond such an appropriate expression of condemnation and is actually stifling (or proposing to stifle) free speech, do feel free to provide evidence -- otherwise, I shall simply disbelieve your gloss.

Since history consists of specific facts at particular times and places, it is usually inappropriate to interrupt discussion of one historical atrocity with accusations that a completely unrelated atrocity is being ignored. If, however, you read various comments associated with passage of this resolution, you will find that there is a wide sense that these specific German atrocities are not the only atrocities the world should remember ...

[Name removed]

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[LanternWaste]

49. I guess I missed it...

I guess I missed it... where in the resolution does it prohibit discussion re: the Holocaust? My reading is that it's simply a resolution condemning the denial...

:shrug:

[MrPrax]

31. You mean like...

moral corruption that's caused by imposing a decade of sanctions with the idea that if you starve and kill the host population the resulting destabilizations will cause the poor and starving victims of dictators to rise up and get rid of them on our behalf?

You mean that moral corruption caused by the deliberate mass extermination for 'oil'?

Which part of the 'Never again' were we suppose to learn? You mean things like how 'torture' isn't kewl or something...

I don't think we learned a whole lot actually, so I don't imagine that people from an entirely different culture with differing religious and historical backgrounds are likely to learn the lessons we ignore.

[fNord]

14. ironic isn't it?

that the U.S. would try and us holocaust denial as a means to cause one? its kind of like the christan god claiming that any "one who doubts my unending love and forgiveness will forever be damned to suffering in hellfire" :nuke:

[superconnected]

16. Could you quote the bible passage that says that?

I can give you the fucked up groups that say that, but I can't seem to come up with the bible quote.

[fNord]

17. sure cant. I never bought into double talk that asinine enough to

try to find it.

[superconnected]

20. Its far more asinine than I think even you know.

Heaven isn't even mentioned until nearly the end the old testament. It wasn't supposed to be the point. It isn't supposed to be the point of the new testament either but you would never know by the way many many churches teach it.

It starts off very violent then with the new testament gets quite peaceful and against organized religion and dogma of the old testament. It totaly contradicts itself.

One thing that really gets me is the Holy Ghost is supposed to be a woman named Sophia. So many Christian sects won't recoginize Sophia because she is a woman, even though it's completely historical in the history of the bible as it went through the ages. Temples have been dedicated to her. In the sistine chapel she is pictured next to God. Ask a fundy or even a methodist or any sect, and they don't know what the heck you're talking about. They deny it vehemently. And they start saying all kinds of crap that isn't even in the bible. Apparently they don't read it, or they get 1 quotation and a wholy double speak interpretation.

Anyway, my problem isn't so much with the Bible as it is with "Christians".

I like zen buddhaism. I don't like the dogma of it and what so many buddhaists made of it. Like "Christians" totally ignoring what Christ said, the buddhaist often totally ignore what Sidartha said - the first buddha. They turned it into an organized religion with rules to get to the after life - achieve karma, that Sidartha was against. Just like Christianity.

Sucks, but I still like Zen Buddhism. I ignore the legalization of religion and stick to what Sidartha said. Just like I ignore the Christian dogma and stick to what Christ said. You don't have to be religious to appreciate it. But then I read books by the Dali Lama and think MLK was the greatest man America ever produced. The Dali Lama is way too dogmatic for me but he does have excellent peaceful points.

Anyway, I'm rambling on so I'll quit typing.

[fNord]

21. I thought you might like this:

"Fear and God do not occupy the same space" Dick Gregory

[RegimeChange2008]

37. Where is this "Sophia" mentioned in the Scriptures?

I'm not arguing the point with you, I've just never honestly heard of the concept before. For the record, I was raised a "fundie" Baptist, but I left that behind a long time ago. Genesis does say that male AND female were made in the image of God, which would imply that God has a female image. But I don't remember anything specifically identifying that "female" part of God, much less naming Her.

[UncleSepp]

43. She is the Shekina, the presence of the Eternal

She is also El Shaddai, the breasted G-d.

[Matilda]

45. She has a whole book.

The Book of Wisdom. "Sophia" means Wisdom in Greek.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Has the UN adopted a resolution...

on the denial of the Armenian holocaust? Because there you've got holocaust deniers that really mean it.

This seems to be more about Iran, than the holocaust.

[daleo]

23. I agree

In time it will become an excuse to attack Iran - "they denied the holocaust, which is against U.N. Resolution NNN, so that makes an invasion of Iran internationally sanctioned".

Which would be a lie, of course, but the Bush crowd doesn't care about that.

[fNord]

24. What?....

ME LIE?

[Lurking Dem]

25. You can't be serious.

There can't be 3 people in the world that would buy that as an excuse.

[daleo]

27. I don't know if anyone will buy it

But they will try it during the propaganda barrage. And who can stop Bush now? It looks like the U.S. military is his private plaything.

[UncleSepp]

44. What worries me more is the backlash against THAT

Of people who will object to the Iranian war, justified on the pretext of Holocaust denial and antisemitism on the part of the Iranian government... and who will accept the propaganda contention that Iran=Holocaust denial=antisemitism, so that to reject the Iranian war is to reject anti-antisemitism, anti-anti-Holocaust denial, and so forth.

[AlienGirl]

47. That's exactly what I'm afraid of, too.

The water's boiling, the veggies are chopped, onion's in the pan; it's not quite soup yet, but all the ingredients are laid out.

Tucker

[ohio2007]

33. of the 192 member nations, how many

din't show up for the vote?

At the 192-member General Assembly, Iran stood by its stance that the Holocaust should be closely examined to determine its scope.


This was a slap on the wrist imo

[SayWhatYo]

35. Just a slap on the wrist?

Should we nuke'em instead? As if anything is going to change the "opinions" of those ruling Iran, nor should we try... Sorry, but if they want to be idiots then let them. This isn't like a country developing nuclear weapons, those can hurt, thoughts usually do not.

[ohio2007]

36. yes, just a wrist slap.

The world has acknowledged how mindless the statement from Iran are. Now it's time to forget about it until the Feb. 21st deadline.
http://www.niacouncil.org/pressreleases/press519.asp
Then more wrist slapping.

[USA No. 1]

41. What's frustrating about this is....

We used to have the moral authority and the respect of the rest of the world. We used to be in a position to LEAD THE WAY and help the world deal with whack jobs like Ahmadinejad (sp?). But since Bush and Cheney's misadventure in Iraq, THE WHOLE WORLD THINKS WE'RE JUST AS DANGEROUS AS Ahmadinejad.

Nice job, George.

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. Ahmadinejad is one peice of work

[Name removed]

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