1,400 Felons Licensed By State To Carry A Gun (You guess it Florida)

[wakeme2008]

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBYD76FIXE.html

1,400 Felons Licensed By State To Carry A Gun
Skip directly to the full story.
The Associated Press

Published: Jan 29, 2007

FORT LAUDERDALE - A pizza driver wanted in connection with the fatal shooting a teen customer and a man convicted of choking and slapping his 4-year-old nephew for playing with a light switch are among those licensed by the state of Florida to carry concealed firearms, a newspaper reported Sunday.

A South Florida Sun-Sentinel analysis of state records found loopholes, errors and miscommunication gave hundreds of criminals access to concealed-weapon permits.

Among the roughly 410,000 Floridians licensed to carry a hidden gun: 1,400 people who pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies, 216 people with outstanding warrants, 128 people with active domestic violence injunctions and six registered sex offenders, the newspaper reported.

..cut..
The newspaper obtained names of those on the state's concealed-weapon permit list shortly before state lawmakers sealed it from public scrutiny July 1.

Marion Hammer, a Tallahassee lobbyist for the National Rifle Association, blamed law enforcement gaps, "bleeding-heart, criminal-coddling judges and prosecutors" for missteps that put guns in the hands of criminals. :rofl:
..more at link...

[xultar]

1. And this is the same state...where they can shoot on site and say they felt threatened.

I will NEVAH go to FL again.

[ntesla]

4. Haven't seen a shootout yet

Police officers have that right anywhere they go and have used it under questionable circumstances. The law merely affirms that regular folks like us can protect our family and home.

It is actually not bad down here if you can put up with freepers and fundies. They are an ignorant bunch.

[xultar]

5. I'm a black female. I can't imagine being lost and asking someone for

directions @ night.

No. Sir. I will NEVAH go to FL.

[ntesla]

9. As a hispanic male, I understand

I've heard very interesting stories about certain parts of Florida. Luckily, cities like Orlando are not that bad.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

14. I can shoot an uninvited intruder on site here in California as well

As long as the site is the interior of my home, or my place of business.

Off site, burden of proof shifts to the shooter to prove that he or she reasonably felt threatened.

[benEzra]

31. No, you can't...

And this is the same state...where they can shoot on site and say they felt threatened.

No, you can't...if you do, you'll be charged with manslaughter or 2nd-degree murder.

The new law changed Florida's self-defense laws to be more like California's or Georgia's. Prior to the new law, Florida had a rule that even if somebody was trying to rape you or kill you, you had to try to run away first before you could defend yourself, and if a prosecutor thought you could have outrun your attacker and you didn't, you could be charged and convicted of murder. Very few states ever had such provisions, so when Florida eliminated theirs, it was hardly earthshaking. Florida also allows you to defend yourself if someone is breaking into your house or is trying to carjack you--and so do most other states, including Georgia.

[Ian David]

2. If you outlaw giving guns to outlaws, then... then... oh, never mind. n/t

[sinkingfeeling]

3. But they sure can't vote.

[Tippy]

6. Send them all to Iraq.....n/t

[leftyladyfrommo]

7. Probably doesn't matter - tons of lawbreakers have guns.

Why leave the felons out of the picture? They probably need to protect themselves from all the other people that carry guns now.

[krispos42]

8. Well, that's to be expected

There are always some mistakes made in the process.

The question is, now that the police know about it, how are they going to fix it?

I doubt this will lead to any increase in violent crime. It is still illegal to commit a crime, with or without a gun, so the only way this might help a repeat criminal is that when the cops do nap him for holding up a liquor store, that is one less charge they can lever against him.

And in case you haven't noticed, crime in states with lots of gun control laws, like California, New Jersey, and New York, have plenty of crime, too. California has 114,000 words in their gun laws. Wyoming has 3,200.

Florida: 5.0 per 100,000 people per year
California: 7.1
New Jersey: 4.8
New York: 4.5
Wyoming: 2.8


Vermont, which does not require any permit, at all, to carry a concealed pistol (i.e., no background check, no fingerprinting, no photo, no proof of competence, no 'Self-Defense and the Law' classes, no training requirement, no gun safety classes, etc.) has a rate of 1.29.

It's not the guns. It's not the Castle Doctrine. It's not Stand Your Ground. Get over it. Fight the gangs, fight the poverty, fight the blight, fight the lack of opportunity.

All banning guns does is replace gun crime with knife and club crime.

[Elmer1007]

10. This is an error rate of :

.34 percent if my math is correct. not too bad.

[slackmaster]

15. I'll bet a pint of Guinness that a CCW license obtained under false pretenses

Is not valid, even in Florida.

[krispos42]

29. LOL no bet! n/t

[superconnected]

23. of course taking into consideration that California has a city with

10 million people in it and flordia doesn't, doesn't seem to factor into your equation.

[krispos42]

28. Actually, it does

The homicide rate is per 100,000 people per year.

California had 2,305 murders with a population of 35,484,453. That is 2,305 murders in 355 groups of 100,000 citizens. That is your homicide rate per 100,000 people.

Basic math.

Howver, I find it interesting that you seem to thing that the sheer size of a city has far more of an impact on the homicide rate than things like 'assault weapon' bans, waiting periods, gun registration, a virtual freeze on CCW permits, magazine-capacity limits, etc.

[superconnected]

32. yeah I got math as part of the requirements for my degree

but I also took statistics and know that it is very relevent about the concentration of the people per capita to crime. You are not calculating the concentrated percapita numbers which throw california to a higher rate of crime. State wide they may have a far lower rate if they exclude the city of LA, or if the LA people lived in smaller commuties throughout their state. Same amount of people, less likely to have as much crime if they were spread out.

Their laws very likely do work - better than florida. We can't tell by taking the generic numbers of this is how many people/ this is how much crime. Does florida have a city even half the size of LA in the state? Do you have a city of even 5 million people? Do you have any clue how the statewide numbers are skewed by the densly populated and expecially populated and poor areas?

Californias counties excluding the ones with LA may have a far lower crime rate state wide than florida. Thus it would be safer in most of california. We can't tell though because you are not using any relevent statistical analysis. LA being the 2nd largest city in the US seriously skews the states numbers. That has nothing to do with crime laws. It's just more indepth to find out which states crime laws work better, than you think.

[krispos42]

33. What about New York City?

The homicide rate in NYC (only) is 6.6. California's is 7.1. This means that the homicide rate of America's biggest city, over 8 million people, is lower than the average of California despite having 123 times the population density. NYC also has three times the population density of LA, nearly 27,000 people per square mile, yet it's homicide rate is half of LA's 12.6.

However, what may be a difference is that California, being home to three major cities instead of one, probably has a larger percentage of its total population living in a metro area. However, the 'metro area' also includes the quiet/rich suburbs, so that that for what you will.

Both states have very strict gun laws, and have continued the Brady-style bans after the federal ban was retired in 2004. No 'assault weapons', magazine restrictions, handgun registrations, virtually no CCW permits issued to the general public, etc. They are in many ways very similar.

Moving south to Florida, we find that the fairly modest city of Miami, population less than 400,000, has a comparatively huge metro area of some five million people. Jacksonville has a population twice that of Miami's but a comparatively small metro area of 1.3 million.

Where does this all go? I don't know. I do know that since liberalizing their gun laws, the anticipated massacres in Florida have failed to materialize. The anti-gun people were so sure about the impending massacres they handed out flyers at the Miami Airport warning that Florida was now full of bloodthirsty pistol-packing nutjobs that hate foreigners.

This seems to be a 'chicken-and-egg' scenario. Do cities have tighter gun laws because they have higher crime, or do they have higher crime because they have tighter gun laws? Or is there any relations at all between gun laws and homicides?

In last 40 years, Britian has steadily tightened the screws on gun ownership. Semi-automatic rifles and shotguns were banned and confiscated in the late 80's, pistols in the late 90's, mandatory registration of all guns... and their homicide rate has doubled.

In the last 40 years, America's homicide rate had dropped by 11%. America's overall rate is still three times that of the UK... but it used to be almost 9 times higher than ours. And we have all those yucky 'assault weapons' and handguns that are forbidden in the UK.

[ck4829]

11. They can't vote but they can carry guns?

:crazy:

[slackmaster]

13. NO, they can't carry guns legally

Read and learn.

Eligibility Requirements

You must be a citizen of the United States OR you must be deemed a lawful permanent resident alien by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS formerly INS).
If you are not a citizen of the United States, you must submit documentation issued by the USCIS proving you are a permanent legal resident alien who has resided in your state of residence for at least 90 consecutive days prior to the date the application is submitted. Evidence of proof includes, but is not limited to:

- Utility bills; telephone, power, or cable
- Pay stubs or other documentation from your employer
- Credit card statement
- You must be 21 years of age or older.
- You must be able to demonstrate competency with a firearm.

Possible Reasons for Ineligibility:

- The physical inability to handle a firearm safely.
- A felony conviction (unless civil and firearm rights have been restored by the convicting authority).
- Having adjudication withheld or sentence suspended on a felony or misdemeanor crime of violence unless three years have elapsed since probation or other conditions set by the court have been fulfilled.
- A conviction for a misdemeanor crime of violence in the last three years.
- A conviction for violation of controlled substance laws or multiple arrests for such offenses.
- A record of drug or alcohol abuse.
- Two or more DUI convictions within the previous three years.
- Being committed to a mental institution or adjudged incompetent or mentally defective.
- Failing to provide proof of proficiency with a firearm.
- Having been issued a domestic violence injunction or an injunction against repeat violence that is currently in force.
- Renouncement of U.S. citizenship.
- A dishonorable discharge from the armed forces.
- Being a fugitive from justice.

Detailed explanations of these various disqualifying conditions are provided in the Application for the Concealed Weapon/Firearm License.

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/eligible.html

[salin]

30. I think reference was to JEB!s efforts to purge voter lists

of those with convictions - but not worrying about those same folks slipping through to get carry licenses.

Or even if the poster didn't mean that - it is sure what jumped out at me.

So much *more* dangerous if these folks vote (in Jeb's world) ...

[KamaAina]

12. Maybe they could get ChoicePoint to purge the concealed carry list?

:sarcasm:

[dysfunctional press]

16. how many of that 1400 are white and/or republican...?

that's the stat i'd like to see.

[MasonJar]

17. They can carry a gun, but they syre cannot vote. Is Jeb one of

them? The felons that is....he certainly should be.

[Davis_X_Machina]

18. Since the Maine state constitution...

...was amended to state "Every citizen has a right to keep and bear arms and this right shall never be questioned". (Art. I, § 16, enacted by referendum in 1987)" -- I always wondered if that meant the courts would be compelled to permit suits against, say, high school debaters for running gun-control cases. It would be a prima facie violation of the state constitution, and if you could prove harm, you would have a cause for action....

[madville]

19. Doesn't really matter

That is the thing about gun laws, only law-abiding people follow them. These felons would be facing mandatory prison time if caught with even one round of ammo, not to mention a real firearm. Most felons that want to carry a firearm will do so license or not.

It doesn't say how many have had their rights restored. My ex-wife was convicted of a two felonies about ten years ago (trafficing pot, felony possession). She had her rights restored a couple of years ago and can now vote, own a gun, all the regular rights. Some of these individuals might be in the same boat she was in.

I have a concealed weapons license here in FL. I carry a firearm with me on a regular basis. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

At a minimum they should follow up, revoke these individuals licenses when appropiate, arrest the ones they find in possession of a firearm, and correct the mistakes. Any government agency that issues identification/licenses is going to let some fraud slip through, like someone else said .34% is not that terrible. A felon doesn't "need" a license anyway to carry a firearm, it is very illegal regardless and a much stiffer penalty than simply carrying a concealed firearm without a license.

[superconnected]

20. they can't vote but they can carry a gun?

Gun nuts everywhere will be thrilled.

[superconnected]

21. somebody walked into my apt a few day ago because they thought

it was the laundry room.

Of course I could have legally killed them....

I also had someone walk into the house I lived in as a teen. They'd gone to the wrong house for a dinner party, even then, I could have killed them.

Or not, I'm not an insane bloody thirsty shoot first ask who they are later person so I don't really need a gun and these innocent people inside my home got to leave alive. God help them if they walked into some DU-ers homes...

[Dean Martin]

24. When my fiance was a little girl someone walked into her apt

...actually 4 guys, with baseball bats, and picked up her family's tv and took it. She, her mother and her siblings pretended to be asleep. If they hadn't, the 4 guys would have bashed their heads in. I guess it's good that no one in her apartment building had anything to defend themselves with either.

[madville]

25. It's a guessing game

There are times to be passive and times to be aggressive. Unfortunatly it is a guessing game. Glad it worked out well for them, that was probably their only option at the time and they were lucky. Things can turn out bad even if one does the right thing, just have to trust your instincts and hope for the best.

[Dean Martin]

26. I agree, I just think all humans have a right to defend themselves

IF we have the oppurtunity. In her case, the oppurtunity wasn't there.

Personally, it sickens and saddens me beyond words that we live in a violent world. But we do, and I am not going to allow anything to happen to her if I can help it.

[damntexdem]

27. Hey, those felons have to be able to defend themselves ...

when approached by people of which they're suspicious. Blam, blam, blam! "Don't trick-or-treat around here, you suspicious kids!"