Microsoft launches new Vista system

[onehandle]

NEW YORK - Acrobatics, blaring music and plenty of hype accompanied Microsoft Corp.'s long-delayed debut of its new Windows Vista operating system. Hours before the software went on sale in New York, dancers clad in Microsoft colors dangled from ropes high above street level Monday and unfurled flags to form the red, green, blue and yellow Windows logo against a building wall.

Later, two explosively loud, percussion-heavy rock bands riled up Microsoft enthusiasts amid flashing lights at the Nokia Theatre — temporarily renamed the Windows Vista Theatre — in Times Square. As employees at Microsoft's Redmond, Wash., headquarters watched live video feeds, company-colored balloons dropped from the ceiling, a few wielding prizes.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070130/ap_on_hi_te/microsoft_vista_launch_38



http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/915.html

[Ignacio Upton]

1. Fuck 'em

I'm keeping XP until they (indirectly) force me to switch over.

[EllenZ]

3. Why Windows at all?

I do great with Red Hat's version of Linux.

I have 1 computer with ME in it just for the (very) few things I can not run in Linux.

[Ignacio Upton]

11. Well

1. I'm not computer-savvy, so I know very little about Linux (I'm ok with XP and Mac OS X.)

2. Linux isn't compatible with nearly as much software and programs as XP or OS X. For example, you can't play DVDs on Linux-based computers.

3. I only bought my PC in August 2005, so it's not even a year and a half old. If Vista continues to suck as people are saying it is, I might just get a Mac when this computer goes.

[fujiyama]

14. I believe the encryption was cracked long ago

There are indeed DVD players available for Linux. I think overall now there is a lot of software available (good open source alternatives to most PC programs).

[Irreverend IX]

37. Linux has been playing DVDs for a long time.

Some versions of Linux require you to download the DVD playing software separately from the OS for legal reasons, but tons of people are playing DVDs with Linux. A few years ago you really needed to know computers to install Linux and use it proficiently, but now it's point-and-click action just like Windows and OSX. Linux also offers you tons of free software bundled with the OS that you'll have to pay through the nose to get with Mac OS or Windows.

[SayWhatYo]

49. Pay? Pay for software?

That's a new concept for me...

[Centered]

97. no problem with paying

the developer has to eat so if it is a quality product why not pay? (keep in mind I am not making any quality statements about Microsoft... I'm just saying if the program is good I don't mind paying pkzip is a classic example)

[Orsino]

83. Heh. Not quite point-and-click.

I used a couple of different versions up until a year or two ago, and though they worked well, my wife had to handle the installations, which were tricky and forced her to start over a few times. It's been simplest, though, for me to keep using the old OEM Win2k, and I haven't touched Linux in quite a while now.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

114. Correct. It's LESS than point-and-click. In my notebook, all you have to do is pop the disc in.

And up comes the DVD's main menu. Sweet.

I use Xine under Fedora Core 5.

[dennis00]

82. DVD on Linux

Sure you can. The program is called MPlayer. As for having two computers, one for linux and one for microsoft, linux will live on the same computer. Its called dual booting. If you want to run some windows programs on a linux only computer, use crossover-office. One time $40 cost, online. I run IE, media player and Quicktime under Suse Linux. Thousands of free linux programs are available from RPMFind. Linux does not cost $239.00, has no user license and can be shared. Your computer won't go. Neither will your current operating system. Gates has 50 billion in the bank because he has convinced people that they NEED windows that they need the LATEST windows and that they have NO alternative to windows. LINUX is that alternative. Gates tried to buy it several years ago, but since nobody owns Linux, it isn't for sale.

[Occulus]

134. Small quibble:

Linux MUST be installed after Windows, and you must leave free, unformatted disk space when you install Windows.

The reason for this (as I'm sure you already know; this is for others) is because Windows cheerfully overwrites the MBR when it installs, hosing your bootloader you're using to boot into linux. You can get around this by using a boot disk, but I much prefer the small amount of extra effort it takes to drop a nuke on the HD, install Windows, and then linux.

But dual installs have to be done in that order. At least, I don't know of a way around it other than using a boot disk.

Incidentally, for those out there considering linux, there are "live" distros out there of many of the most popular linux "flavors", which will allow you to test drive linux by simply booting it from a CD. Nothing installs to the hard drive, and nothing on your PC is changed, but the command line and all the commands are right there, along with a gui (X11 or X.org) and lots of apps. Live distros are a great way to learn about linux.

[LanternWaste]

52. For my part...

For my part, it's because I learned on the Windows OS, I've continued to educate myself on the Wondows OS, the company I work for uses Windows, I'm comfortable with it, all the programs/games I use/need/want are supported by Windows and I haven't had any problems with it.

Having said that, I'm one of those guys who thinks the differences between the three obvious chices have been reduced to the difference between a Ford and a Toyota-- they all work and they all get me where I need to go. Mechanics will argue about the differences, but to me-- if it works, it works.

[candice]

136. Gates a big Bush donor; Gore is on the Apple Board and Jobs

donated a wad to Kerry. I've used both OS's and the comparison I have is between my American piece of crap car that costs a fortune to maintain versus my Honda, which was well designed, easy to use, and cheap to maintain (and still working after almost 20 years). I have every Mac I've ever bought (since the late 80s and all of them run; my PCs are all in the landfill; fortunately, I can bypass Windows with the Intel Mac (works fine; hope I don't have to ever migrate to Vista).

[RC]

5. From what I have heard and read about Vista

they will have to send out the patch of death to XP to get people to "upgrade" to Vista.

Bigger bloat and a different non-intuitive way of doing things is not the way to sell softfwear.

[BlueJazz]

10. I've been trying it out for about a year.....off and on...and I'll tell you...

...it's like XP but slower and more in-your-face.
...Plus it's HUGE....
and expensive as hell...


Microsoft dropped the ball on this one...

[kysrsoze]

20. I could give a rat's ass. Why should I bother to update?

Everything works fine now with XP (finally). Why do I want to upgrade my processor, memory, motherboard, video card, etc. to have a nifty new interface? Yeah, if I get a new PC, I'll take it for free. Otherwise, I could care less. The price is absolutely ridiculous too. The only way they will make money on this is by having it installed on new machines.

[BlueJazz]

29. Yep..I remember the first day that Microsoft sent me a copy to evaluate.

I was fairly excited about the whole thing.
Took out the disks, installed it, ran it and sat back and thought:

(Like the Peggy Lee Song) Is that all there is?

[MUAD_DIB]

44. Maybe they will threaten to give you a free Zune if you don't upgtade.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[JPZenger]

36. NPR: Don't try to Upgrade Unless you your PC is less than 1 year old

NPR had a good story on Vista yesterday. They said that if your computer is more than a year old, don't even think of trying to upgrade. Vista is such a memory hog that it will slow down older machines.

Microsoft has purposefully aimed towards the new computer market, and not the upgrade market with this OS.

I also read that files created with the new version of MS Office are not automatically usable with with older versions of MS Office (such as 2003). That compatibility issue would be a very good reason for not wanting to upgrade that software either. Can you imagine creating files and then everyone you know has trouble using them?

[SayWhatYo]

51. Pthhh... I'll run it on a 500Mhz Celeron with 396Megs of memory...

'cause I'm freaky like that.

[sofa king]

101. And I'll bet they will.

Remember all that hoo-ha about "Windows activation" back around the turn of the millenium? When you bought XP you were advised that Microsoft has the right to remove its support for XP after five years. I have a feeling that the activation keys for Windows XP fall under their definition of "support." So I'm guessing that somewhere around 2012 you won't be able to reinstall a legal copy of Windows XP. A few erroneous and automatically uploaded updates might help its death along.

But thanks to that DRM garbage, XP may be around forever in illegal-land, playing those Mudhoney MP3s we stole through Napster back in the '90s.

[tridim]

6. XP 64bit here

Lovin' it! And zero need to upgrade. :)

[Cleita]

7. Me too. I finally got used to it and I'm not giving it up until

it's totally forced on me just like XP was.

[niceypoo]

38. how was XP forced on you? Explain

There are tens of millions of people still using windows 98

[Cleita]

43. New computer. n/t

[AFFIRM]

79. This is how XP is "forced" on us.

I still use 98se. However, last week I had to do a reformat HDD and when I came back up I found that my windows media player would no longer play msn videos. More specifically I cant play videos showcased in windows media player. They all say I need Media Player 10. Guess what? You need Windows XP to use 10.

[niceypoo]

118. Use an older version of media player......problem solved.

Version 10 is crap anyway, so is windows 98 btw.....use windows 2000 if anything.....the way memory is managed in win98 is so archaic and patched together as to be laughable (hense all the freezing and blue screens).

[0007]

105. I'm going Mac screw these lame brain idiots

[msongs]

2. ha ha mac OS X = 3% market share haha but I get the joke :-)

xp is ok with me, no probs of any kind since I installed it originally.

Msongs
www.youtube.com/videos/msongs

[onehandle]

8. Now at 5.1%. Apple has been climbing over the last two years...

...while Bush loving Dell has been shrinking.

[Nomad559]

16. Actually, Apple has a

"U.S." market share" of about 6%
Apple's "worldwide market share" Is about 3%

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2072141,00.asp
Apple will hold about 3 percent of the worldwide PC market in the fourth quarter of 2006, and that number could rise to 4 percent by the end of 2007, according to a Dec. 13 report by Gene Munster, an analyst at Minneapolis-based Piper Jaffray.

According to a recent report by IDC, Apple owned about 2.8 percent of the worldwide PC market in the third quarter of 2006. Reports by IDC and Garter of third-quarter PC sales showed Apple in the top five in U.S. sales but far behind market leaders HP and Dell both in the United States and worldwide.

:)

[dsharp88]

18. Apple runs Windows now too...

as well as OS X, which Vista is just a lame ripoff of. Except, of course, that Vista is buggier, slower, a bigger memory hog, a bigger hard drive hog, a bigger processer hog, doesn't include nearly the programs and features of OS X, and costs an arm and a leg.

Oh, and in a couple of months, an upgrade of OS X will be out - only one version needed - at a fraction of the cost of Vista and which will put it even further back in its dust.

Apple kicks Windows' butt so much it's not even funny.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elocs]

27. I just saw on the CBS morning news about the ways in which Vista copies the Mac OS.

Things which Macs have had for years. I'll never go back to Windows and pcs. No thank you.

[niceypoo]

40. Thats the problem with windows.....they dont innovate

They copy people. Vista copies mac, the new internet explorer copies firefox, hotmail now copies gmail. Microsoft stopped innovating decades ago.

[Greyhound]

98. M$ has never, ever, ever, made one single innovation in its whole sordid history.

They steal and cheat and lie, that is their model and it (unfortunately) works. They've also been very successful at hiding how truly miraculous the hardware we have today is, because of their incredibly crappy software.

[ovidsen]

96. Microsoft is dead to me

I've been doing the Microsoft thing for years. Got my first MS-DOS clone in 1986. Went for the original Windows when it came out. Then Windows 95, 98... on to XP, blahblahblah....

Last week, the wife and I bought a MacBook. Not a top-end gamer/programmer machine. Not a bare bones one either,

For the first 2 days we were ready to throw it out the window (pun intended). Then we "got" it. OS X is truly intuitive. We're learning more every day and couldn't be more thrilled. Bill Gates, you are apparently a nice guy, and incredibly generous to boot. Steve Jobs... well, you can be an arrogant asshole, but lordie can you design a people friendly, intuitive machine.

Until something better comes along (from Microsoft or anyone else) we're a Mac family. The damn thing works beyond my fondest dreams. I await with intense dread the stuff I'll hear from Dad about his Vista nightmares.

[niceypoo]

39. The problem with a mac is the training wheels dont come off...

Besides that MAC OSX is hella stable since they abandoned everything and started running it on UNIX. However Mac will never be more than a 5%-7% market share. It will never "kick windows butt" with such low popularity. The whole "mac vs pc" thing pretty much exists only in Mac users heads.

[MindPilot]

57. And the problem with Windows is...the wheels come off.

But at least they can generally be re-attached.

My job requires me to work on both and Macs have always made me feel like I'm driving a car where I can't see out the windshield save for a small hole just above the steering wheel.

[0007]

106. .....or your's

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. and apparently, 20% of Du and dKos subscribers use Macs.

but we know quality when we see it.

[skids]

85. The kids are alright...

I work at a college. Close to a third of the students returned with OSX this year.

[Cleita]

4. Gates is on the Daily Show right now talking about it. n/t

[Placebo]

9. Mac OS X

:headbang: 4eva beeches! :headbang:

[Ignacio Upton]

12. Just wondering...will Mac OS X start seeing more viruses

If Vista is bad enough that more people will buy OS X?

[Placebo]

15. Possibly.

But I doubt it. It really is a more secure OS.

[Nomad559]

17. More Secure

How Is It more secure than Windows and Linux when It has so many more Security Advisories.
(It has less than 3% of the world market share)

Windows - Found: 865 Secunia Security Advisories
http://secunia.com/search/?search=Windows+

Linux - Found: 5807 Secunia Security Advisories
http://secunia.com/search/?search=Linux

OS X - Found: 10119 Secunia Security Advisories
http://secunia.com/search/?search=OS+X

:shrug:

[kysrsoze]

21. The number of hack attempts is lower on OS X due to market share

They don't bother.

[niceypoo]

119. Same with virus'......people write virus to infect the most possible computers

This being the case MACs arent too tempting to virus writers, given hardly anyone uses them. The only good thing about OSX is that it sits on top of freebsd UNIX which is hella stable.

[Lithos]

28. Sloppy search criteria

Your search criteria is incomplete, sloppy and essentially comparing apples to oranges. For instance your OS X search includes products such as Cisco IOS and other items not part of or related to the actual Apple OS. And Linux having multiple Vendors will show multiple products for the same bug - ie it gets hit several times for each.

What also is missing is the "patch" rate by the vendor; the attention they are giving to patching things which is a problem Microsoft is known for where critical exploits remain open months if not years later and only grudgingly addressed.



Delving further into Secunia, I note this:

Windows XP Pro-

Affected By 170 Secunia advisories

Unpatched 19% (32 of 170 Secunia advisories)

Most Critical Unpatched


The most severe unpatched Secunia advisory affecting Microsoft Windows XP Professional, with all vendor patches applied, is rated Highly critical

Ubuntu 6.10 - the latest release of a very common desktop/server Linux package.

Affected By 41 Secunia advisories

Unpatched 0% (0 of 41 Secunia advisories)

Most Critical Unpatched
There are no unpatched Secunia advisories affecting this product, when all vendor patches are applied.

Apple OS X

Affected By 97 Secunia advisories

Unpatched 19% (18 of 97 Secunia advisories)

Most Critical Unpatched
The most severe unpatched Secunia advisory affecting Apple Macintosh OS X, with all vendor patches applied, is rated Highly critical

So, looks like Windows XP is leading the pack.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

113. Ooooo, SNAP!

It's a shame mods are ignoreable now, perhaps he didn't get to see this enlightening information.

[Emillereid]

103. I have used a MAC for about seven years now -- and so far I have NEVER

had any kind of virus or spyware. I don't even bother with virus software anymore. Yet I have had to clean off my daughter's PC numerous times - I had to actually remove some of them manually. Also my daughter's PC laptop has totally crapped out on her several times -- and each time she literally lost everything. She's a senior at Berkeley -- and plans to go to medical school. We have given her an IOU for the MAC of her choice whenever she wants -- she's decided to cash it in when she starts medical school instead of now so it will the newest available. Meantime, she suffers with a PC.

[jmatthan]

108. 23 years without

any firewall,
any virus protection software and
absolutely not once hit by any virus of any kind.

And my computers are all 24 hours online.

That has been my Mac experience going through this sequence

Apple IIc,
MacPlus,
Mac SE,
MacPortable,
Mac FX,
Mac PowerBook 170,
Mac Performa,
iMac and finally an
eMac

At the moment my PowerBook 170, my iMac and eMac are running without any problems and the others are able to be used at any time by just switching on!

Just yesterday I was visiting a friend who owns a Thai restaurant and suddenly I saw him tear his HP Windows XP portable to bits - a major system crash which caused all his business records to be wiped out.

Why do people go through this stage, not once but many times in their lifetime?

[Emillereid]

111. Most people I know who opt for windows machines say thay do so because

they are a little cheaper than Macs and they still believe there is not much software for Macs. My husband's company uses windows (they even still use a dos based program) and they are always having problems -- major crashes and loss of data. My husband on the other hand has an iMAC and has never had any problems whatsoever!

[IDemo]

127. Bill Gates' take on Vista vs MAC security:

from a Newsweek interview: "Nowadays, security guys break the Mac every single day. Every single day, they come out with a total exploit, your machine can be taken over totally. I dare anybody to do that once a month on the Windows machine."

:argh:

[AFFIRM]

80. Maybe .............

but win98SE is now safe from hacker attempts. Why? Hackers figure that if I am still using this old a system, I must not have anything worth hacking. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[sofa king]

104. Dude, are you kidding?

Some of the known vulnerabilities apply to all of the Windows OSes, only 98SE isn't fixed by Microsoft anymore (and was never fixed well in the first place). The so-called "survival time" for an unprotected system with an open Internet connection was 20 minutes in 2004, or less time than it takes to download the necessary security updates with a dial-up connection.

As I well know from hardbitten experience, 98SE installations fizzle all by themselves over the course of a couple of years or less, because it's as frail as a Bronte sisters supporting character. When you have to reinstall--and you will--it's possible or even likely your computer will become infected and owned when you try to download the security updates. Even if you succeed in downloading and installing the updates without becoming a zombie, there may be a host of newly-discovered vulnerabilities that are not addressed.

Windows 98SE was the worst operating system I ever used, besides every other Windows OS beginning with the number 9. I'd advise you to ditch it for something, anything else (besides Windows ME, of course, which I knew better than to try).

[Greyhound]

99. That whole "viruses are prevalent in windows because windows is the biggest"

argument is nothing but pure BS coming out of Redmond. Writing viruses for windows is easier because windoze is fundamentally insecure.

[951-Riverside]

13. Don't want it and don't need it

Windows Vista is just another Windows ME

[moondust]

19. Vista's legal fine print raises red flags

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/175801

Vista's legal fine print raises red flags

Jan 29, 2007 04:30 AM

~snip~

Vista also incorporates Windows Defender, an anti-virus program that actively scans computers for "spyware, adware, and other potentially unwanted software." The agreement does not define any of these terms, leaving it to Microsoft to determine what constitutes unwanted software.

Once operational, the agreement warns that Windows Defender will, by default, automatically remove software rated "high" or "severe," even though that may result in other software ceasing to work or mistakenly result in the removal of software that is not unwanted.

For greater certainty, the terms and conditions remove any doubt about who is in control by providing that "this agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights." For those users frustrated by the software's limitations, Microsoft cautions that "you may not work around any technical limitations in the software."

~snip~

He noted that Vista intentionally degrades the picture quality of premium content when played on most computer monitors.

Moreover, he calculated that the technological controls would require considerable consumption of computing power with the system conducting 30 checks each second to ensure that there are no attacks on the security of the premium content.

~more~


Who needs it besides Big Brother?

[Desperadoe]

22. Been running Vista Home Premium for 3 days

Installed it on a new computer that I built just for Vista.

Beyond a doubt, it was the most painless install of Windows on a new computer that I have ever experienced. Vista had almost all of the drivers for the motherboard, chip, sound and graphics, so the only new drivers I needed were on Windows Update. Only exception was a newer graphic driver that I grabbed from the Nvidia site.

So far it runs nice and smooth with very few problems. Of course this is with Vista-ready hardware and on a computer that I will only slowly break in to use on an everyday basis. The biggest problem is that most of the hardware and software vendors do not have drivers or new software available yet but that will change quickly after today.

Is it ready for prime time? Not yet, but, if your computer is less than a year old, has at least 1 gig of ram and a fairly good graphics chip it should have few problems running it and it will get better over the next few weeks, as more software and drivers appear. Just like when XP made it's debut, there is overwhelming pissing and moaning but, within a year, most people with capable computers will either have migrated to it or will be planning on it.

If your computer is over a year old and you don't have the ability to upgrade it yourself, then stay with XP. Most of all, don't listen to the BS you hear from the whiners or believe all the anti-MS propaganda that you read. Find someone who knows computers, doesn't have all of the anti-MS prejudices and has run this thing for a while and ask them what they think.

[napi21]

24. I suspect you're probably right. I heard the same thing about XP

several years ago. I didn't upgrade to XP until my old computer croaked. The new one had XP installed, and it was long enough after XP was available thatmmost of the bugs were worked out. I expect to do the same with this one. My computer is almost 2 1/2 years old now, and I have NO intention of buying any new operating system for it EVER! It seems like somethingmajor goes wrong at about the 5 year mark that makes it cheaper to just buy a new one instead of fixing the old one. Guess I have a few years to go yet!

[951-Riverside]

25. "whiners", propragandists and predjudice

Nice way of describing those who don't see things your way when it comes to Vista and by the way OS/Hardware compatibly is nothing new and Vista is certainly not the first.

Vista had almost all of the drivers for the motherboard, chip, sound and graphics, so the only new drivers I needed were on Windows Update.

[ryanmuegge]

53. Are you denying the existence of a cult-like fanboyism when it comes to Apple products?

I don't think he characterizing people who don't agree with him, but just the more avid Apple userbase.

[niceypoo]

41. I am a network technician and a programmer at a college

We have been running vista versions as they come out since the first beta and it is still rife with problems. Almost none of our networking software is compatible with it, it is slow as hell, 2/3 of our educational software won't run with it. You can't even run daemon tools on it. It will be a long time before we use it on any desktop or production machines. We run almost 6,000 computers over several campus' and the price is ridiculous. Their licensing scheme is bizarre.

Take your own advise and, "Find someone who knows computers, doesn't have all of the anti-MS prejudices and has run this thing for a while and ask them what they think."

And you will most certainly drop it like a hot potato....

[oblivious]

26. Vista opens up windows into e-waste nightmare (my local Hong Kong paper)

Computer industry experts and environmental groups have joined Executive Council member and lawmaker Jasper Tsang Yok-sing in expressing concern over a potential spike in the number of obsolete computers and electronic waste in Hong Kong.

The fright over nonbiodegradable electronic waste, which contains a bevy of toxic compounds, was sparked by the impending release of Microsoft Windows Vista operating system and its stringent hardware requirements.

Tsang warned in the Legislative Council last week that up to half a million computers would need to be replaced in the SAR if the new system is introduced, triggering a major environmental problem for the territory.

"The Vista launch will definitely have an impact on the two million Windows-based PCs in use in Hong Kong as only a small number of them are powerful enough to run the new operating system," the Hong Kong Computer Society said Sunday.

The society said it expects larger businesses to be slower to adopt the new system as they would incur millions of dollars of investment in addition to extensive testing for compatibility.

In comparison, small and medium- size companies are expected to adopt Vista as they replace or buy additional PCs. Households are also expected to join the bandwagon although this depends on individual spending power and computing needs.

"There's no doubt that the upgrade would result in much application rewrites and obsolete hardware," a society spokesman said, urging the community to donate their obsolete PCs to underdeveloped countries.

HKdotCOM managing director Maren Leizaola said: "As the RAM, CPU and video requirements to run Microsoft Vista are increasing substantially, the global electrical consumption is set to rocket. There're a lot of users who are going to be forced to change their PCs altogether for Windows Vista Capable and Premium Ready PCs, throwing the obsolete PCs into landfills.

more....

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=4&art_id=37089&sid=11904932&con_type=1&d_str=20070129

[mitchleary]

30. Vista: So bad the Chinese won't even pirate it. LOL

:rofl:

[Canuckistanian]

31. Let the patches begin!

I think I'll stick with my Win98SE until XP stabilises.....

[niceypoo]

42. As if win98 is stable?

*LOL* if you want stability go with openSuse which is stable, free and easy to install.

[Canuckistanian]

45. No, but it's predictably unstable

And I know how to keep it going.

[Megahurtz]

102. Lol! Isn't THAT the truth! n/t

[LTR]

92. XP is a lot more stable than 98

I don't have nearly the scale of problems that I had with 98. Plus, Micro$oft is no longer updating or supporting anything before 2000.

XP isn't perfect, and it does have its glitches. But I'll take it over a return to 98 anyday.

As for Vista, I'm perfectly fine with XP for a while. I'll upgrade when I buy a new system and it's foisted on me.

[It was not a pretzel]

32. Not touching it

until I'm absolutly forced too and the MS spyware is removed or hacked.

Think about it, an OS is there so you can run other software on your PC yet by the time you have Vista running you can't run anything else. Real ingenuity would be making the OS more smaller and more efficient.

If you're a gamer don't even touch it unless you have 2GB Ram and don't mind MS disabling other software on your machine.

If there's any way to stick with XP over the next 5 years I will.

[Triana]

34. Linux, Kubuntu, Mac OSx...

...I have ONE dayum Winduhz ExPee machine that I have to use because of some apps on it. The rest - NOT MickeySnot OSs!

[slackmaster]

35. Windows 2000 Server user here, next build will be VMWare

I support Windows servers for a living and often use my home system for telecommuting. I don't want to be locked into a consumer level OS at home.

[SayWhatYo]

50. I love VMware :D

[slackmaster]

86. I think it's the coolest software innovation for microcomputers in 10 years

Machine virtualization and support of "guest" OSs has been the norm in the world of mainframe computers since the late 1970s. Modern PCs have a tremendous capacity of CPU power that goes largely untapped except on busy servers.

At my job, we run numerous commercial Web sites. Our biggest money maker is an older application that runs just fine on a slow machine with 250 MB of RAM. Squandering a 3 GHz dual processor server with 2 GB RAM, even to run, multiple instances of that site, is a waste of resources. We're starting to use virtualization to leverage the hardware. We haven't yet found anything that doesn't run on virtuals.

[Xithras]

46. Been using it for months. My take...

FYI, we volume licensers got it last November. Here's my take: Overall, it is a VERY good operating system, and is definitely a worthwhile upgrade from XP IF you have the hardware to run it. The new UI is very smooth and intuitive, many of the features for tracking and managing media collections are equal to or better than those on my Mac, and the whole thing just FEELS a lot more refined. A couple of caveats though:

1) If your computer is more than 18 months old, forget about it. To really run well, Vista needs to have either a dual core CPU, or a single core CPU running at 3.2Ghz or greater. You also NEED to have at least 2Gb of RAM. At LEAST. My office PC had 1.5Gb when I first upgraded it, and two upgrades later I'm at 4Gb of RAM and am finally running beautifully. You will also need to have a REALLY GOOD video card if you want to use many of the nifty transparency features in the new OS. That $799 Dell special you bought last year isn't going to do it.

2) Most of the DRM concerns are overblown. I've already ripped a number of DVD's using the system and there was no hiccups whatsoever. Unless you plan on ripping HD-DVD's (and how many people actually do that?) you'll never run into the DRM, much less be inconvenienced by it. In two months of use, I've never seen an issue with it. Still, if you ARE a movie pirate, it may be time to look into Mac's or Linux. Since most of us aren't movie pirates, it's a non-issue.

3) I'm not a big fan of the new licenses, but what can you do? For most of us, giving up PC's really isn't an option (I personally run tons of software that will probably never be ported), so the question really is "XP, or Vista"? Even if you don't like the Vista licenses, there is little you can do if you can't migrate off the platform.

4) Avoid the really cheap Home Basic Edition (the $150 one, IIRC). They stripped most of the features that make Vista worth getting just to offer a cheaper version. It's basically XP with the Vista DRM and a few widgets tossed in. It is NOT worth buying EVER. Home Premium Edition is the minimum that anyone should consider purchasing.

So what's my overall opinion? If you have a relatively new, high powered Windows XP computer and you want or need to stay on Windows, go for the upgrade. You'll never regret it. If you have an older computer, don't waste your money on upgrades just to hit the "minimum" requirements (because it performs BADLY at the minimum requirements...and still badly even at their "recommended" requirements). Enjoy XP for as long as you have your computer. When the time comes to replace it, ask yourself whether you want to stay with Windows. If the answer is yes, ignore the naysayers and just buy a Vista box...again, you won't regret it. If you want something different, go Mac. I love my Mac Mini and would use it exclusively if that were actually an option for me. You won't regret going that route either. Linux? Please. I run it on servers and have a couple of Linux boxen around for compatability testing. Anyone who tells you that it's as easy to use as OSX or Vista is flat out lying. If you have the time and the technical inclination to learn it, it's a useful operating system...but it's nowhere near being ready for grandma yet, and very few business apps will run on it. A few months back I got into it with one of my Linux zealot employees...after he SWORE that Linux was ready for the desktop, I bet him $50 that he couldn't use it exclusively for 30 days without ever hitting the shell and doing command line work. Yes, I really did take his $50 when he lost that bet. Linux still requires you to know command line commands, which rules it out for anyone who isn't technically literate.

And real geeks use BSD anyway :P

[MindPilot]

47. Nice review. Mind a couple of questions?

Windows has over the past several iterations had a couple of REALLY irritating design issues that I wonder if they are addressed in Vista.

Explorer's error-handling capabilities have been almost non-existent. If you're copying files and there is say a file-in-use error, the process just stops. You have no idea of what has copied and what hasn't, your only option is to almost blindly try the correct the problem and start over which can be pretty time-consuming if you're dealing with several gigs of data.

When a network drive is a little slow to respond or a CD is being initialized, does it still hang the whole freakin' machine while it waits?

[Xithras]

48. Answers

1) I'd really like to answer this question, but I haven't actually tried that with Vista yet. I'll have to give the file copy thing a try.

2)As to the network drives, on my dual core box I've noticed almost no system delays when loading disks or connecting to remote drives. Vista seems to be far more multithread aware and has very few system pauses when compared to its predecessors. Part of that, I think, has to do with Vistas improved SATA support. Since SATA doesn't require the hardware pause like IDE did, native multithreaded SATA support should eliminate those hangs. I only see them today when accessing very large files on CD, which is more of a throughput issue.

[MindPilot]

56. Thank you!

[roamer65]

54. The devil you know is better than the one you don't know.

I'm gonna hang with XP (Xtra Problems) for a while, yet. Let others be the beta testers.

[MindPilot]

55. "hang with XP"

LOL!! True, that. :rofl:

[Heidi]

58. Kick.

:kick:

[onehandle]

59. Few Rush Out to Buy New Windows Vista

NEW YORK -- Consumers can finally get their hands on Microsoft Corp.'s long-delayed Windows Vista, but unlike the mad midnight rushes retailers saw with the recently released video game consoles, stores saw only a trickle of early adopters Tuesday.

snip...

Bridges, a 53-year-old who works in the highway construction business, said he was curious to see the various editions of Vista but had no immediate plans to buy a copy. "Every time Windows comes out it has bugs," he said. "I don't want to pay for that yet. I'll probably wait a couple of months."

Kathleen Calvin echoed those concerns as she left a Best Buy in Brooklyn, Ohio, empty-handed. "I just want to make sure it's something that's going to work well," she said.

Consumers who want to upgrade a relatively new XP computer can expect to drop $100 to $259 for Vista alone, depending on the version (a standalone version of Vista costs up to $399, but it is already included in the price of new PCs). While Microsoft boasts that 1.5 million devices are Vista-compatible now, analysts warn of a potentially rocky transition.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/30/AR2007013000123_2.html

[Contrite]

60. Why buy a whole new set of debugged bugs...

when you can already enjoy those with the earlier/other versions of Windows?

[Jack Rabbit]

61. Everybody knows that in a world without walls

. . . we need neither Windows nor Gates.

[Clark2008]

62. I work for a training company.

We're not even running classes on it until the second half of the year because we know not everyone is going to run out and buy it.

No big surprise.

We'll still proudly offer training on 2003 - and we STILL get classes for Excel 2003 that are so full, sardines wouldn't fill comfortable.

However, we do have a series of free seminars on Vista, Exchange and Office coming up and they're pretty popular.

Give it about a year or so to catch on.

[GoneOffShore]

63. Oh dear

I think I'll just crank up iTunes and then work on my iWeb pages now.

[davidwparker]

67. Yep.

I'm going to shutdown my iTunes and Safari and go watch Daily Show.

Another Windows version come and gone.

[Mojambo]

64. I won't be upgrading to Vista, now or later. n/t

[TaleWgnDg]

65. I've yet to understand why . . . WHY . . . folks like to be guinea pigs for

software corporations. Is there something *special* about being "first" to have your computer crash? Your work disappear? Or worse? I mean what the hell is it? Nothing other than stupidity.

I figure that others -- certainly not me -- should put their heads in the guillotine. Simple, really.

[C_U_L8R]

66. The Bill Gates demo was not impressive

maybe i'm a mac zealot.. but nothing looked very cool.

[davidwparker]

68. from what I've seen in a review, they are trying to copy OS X. The usual

move things to different screen locations and act like it is new.

OS X 10.5 ... can't wait.

[C_U_L8R]

69. Not even close to OSX

Gates demo'd their photo book and it was limp.
Didn't really do anything .. except Bill said that it's the best.
Not that I saw.

Then there was some kind of cascading finder do-hickey
that showed your open apps... kinda ugly if you ask me.
OSX is infinitely more useful.

Again.. I'm judging it as a Mac person... others may feel differently or different.. whatever

[pinniped]

76. Of course it's close. We have widgets, they have gadgets.

Copycats.

[davidwparker]

110. No, you're probably right. The review that I was reading had no pictures,

just comments. I've never seen Vista, just what people have said.

I really don't want to see Vista, even when work switches to it eventually.

I do, however, want to see OS X 10.5. I've watched the WWDC stream of what has been shown to developers, and it's stunning. Which, calling Apple products stunning is a lot cliche.

Apple :yourock:

[DavidMS]

70. I am realy not supprised

Most of my friends (we are all IT people or people who like computers) figure we are going to skip this release or hold off for at least three months. It offers nothing new except Digital Restrictions Management and to put it mildly is bloatware.

It doubtless has some significant security issues waiting to be exploited. When my dad buys a new computer I will sugest that he get one with XP or wait at least 6 months.

[grytpype]

71. Hahahahahaha!

[liberal N proud]

72. Most peoples PC's are not even powerful enough to run it effectively

Our company is a guinea pig site for Mickysoft in a venture where they control our PC's. The way it was sold to us the users was that we would have 24/7 support. To achieve this little experiment by Mickysoft they went through and reformatted every PC in the company. Many programs will not run on their "Managed Desktops".
We were the first to get Office 2007, what a nightmare same with VISTA.

Many programs that run on XP will not Vista, it is amazing, when the programs don't run Mickysoft just blames the manufacture of the software that does not run, It is never a Windows problem

[Frank Cannon]

73. Well, like the Decider said...

Fool me once, shame on...shame on...you. Fool me twice, shame on...shame on--fool me, can't get fooled again!

[Cobalt-60]

74. they've repeated operation Bug House once too often

Burden the consumer with a bug infested piece of drek inferior to their tried and true os.
I've still got a bad taste of Millennium in my mouth.
That's why I'll use Win 98 absolutely as long as possible.
Screw microsoft if they won't support it.

[Divine Discontent]

75. but... but...

he was so funny on the daily show!

ha..

love how he took off quickly, he knows he's pushing an overboiled egg.



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[OhioChick]

84. Good!

:)

[AFFIRM]

77. Werent they trying to push XP on us just a year ago?

No Thanks ........ I shall stick with my 98SE. Had it seven years now and it does what I want it to.

[fujiyama]

78. Hmmm unless you have a Core 2 Duo

or top of the line AMD processors, I wouldn't bother.

I tried out the beta (forget the release version). It actually was nice. It installed smoothly. And I loved the media center and its integration with the OS. I use my PC for HDTV applications. I have a tuner card and it recognized it immediately.

But the driver support wasn't there yet at the time (this was in October). And I really wouldn't have bothered with this on an older computer. I was building my PC new at the time and it's funny to say it's already not considered especially high end. But I'm sticking with PCs. I have no problem with Macs, but I'm a bit tired of the cult like devotion and bashing of anything non-Mac by some in their use base. It's sort of weird.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Heidi]

87. Kick.

:kick:

[BluePatriot]

88. Pft.

My computer would choke on it. Just a big scheme to get everyone to upgrade and shell out cash.

[Orrin_73]

89. Vista and mac os similarities explained hilariously by

David Pogue of the new york times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT6YO30GhmQ

[HannibalBarca]

90. No problem with Microsoft at all here..

Yes windows 98/ME were a piece of s*it but 2000 was one of the best operating systems I've ever used and XP has been rock solid since I started using it. I have also been using OSX on an ibook for several years and while its ok I still prefer windows simply for its interoperability and compatibility. I know Apple goes down the proprietary route but I like customisation and as an avid gamers player mac osx is just not sufficient for me as the range of software and hardware is not at all comparable to what's available for a performance PC.
As far as the security goes well I'm going to withhold judgement until OSX is installed on 50% of the world's PCs, then I'll see how it holds up in comparison to windows.

[slackmaster]

91. Amen to the endorsement of Windows 2000

I run 2K servers at work, and use it at home as well.

The greatest irony of this thread so far, to me, is that the first couple of times I tried to read HannibalBarca's reply, the DU board, running PHP on Linux/Apache, obliged me with hundreds of repetitions of:

An error was encountered, please try again shortly
An error occurred during processing.

This may or may not have affected the action you were trying to
submit, so if you were trying to make a post or vote in a poll, please
check to see if the action was completed. It is not necessary to report
this as a bug unless it appears this error did prevent your action from completing.
An error occurred during processing.

This may or may not have affected the action you were trying to
submit, so if you were trying to make a post or vote in a poll, please
check to see if the action was completed. It is not necessary to report
this as a bug unless it appears this error did prevent your action from completing.
An error occurred during processing.

This may or may not have affected the action you were trying to
submit, so if you were trying to make a post or vote in a poll, please
check to see if the action was completed. It is not necessary to report
this as a bug unless it appears this error did prevent your action from completing.
An error occurred during processing.

This may or may not have affected the action you were trying to
submit, so if you were trying to make a post or vote in a poll, please
check to see if the action was completed. It is not necessary to report
this as a bug unless it appears this error did prevent your action from completing.
An error occurred during processing.

This may or may not have affected the action you were trying to
submit, so if you were trying to make a post or vote in a poll, please
check to see if the action was completed. It is not necessary to report
this as a bug unless it appears this error did prevent your action from completing.
An error occurred during processing.

This may or may not have affected the action you were trying to
submit, so if you were trying to make a post or vote in a poll, please
check to see if the action was completed. It is not necessary to report
this as a bug unless it appears this error did prevent your action from completing.
An error occurred during processing.

This may or may not have affected the action you were trying to
submit, so if you were trying to make a post or vote in a poll, please
check to see if the action was completed. It is not necessary to report
this as a bug unless it appears this error did prevent your action from completing.
An error occurred during processing.

This may or may not have affected the action you were trying to
submit, so if you were trying to make a post or vote in a poll, please
check to see if the action was completed. It is not necessary to report
this as a bug unless it appears this error did prevent your action from completing.
An error occurred during processing.

This may or may not have affected the action you were trying to
submit, so if you were trying to make a post or vote in a poll, please
check to see if the action was completed. It is not necessary to report
this as a bug unless it appears this error did prevent your action from completing.
An error occurred during processing.

[HannibalBarca]

93. Fair enough

never happened to me though (or a great many techies/enthusiasts that I know).

[slackmaster]

94. Eh?

I just posted what showed up in my browser while attempting to view a page on DU. It has nothing to do with the fact that I am a techie.

My point, directed primarily at the knee-jerk Microsoft bashers, is that ALL software is subject to bugs and malfunctions.

[951-Riverside]

95. Re: My point, directed primarily at the knee-jerk Microsoft bashers

I think Microsoft finally got it right with Windows XP with that said I don't think Vista offers anything useful, personally I consider it the next version of windows ME. Myself and others are entitled to have an opinion on various subjects without being labeled as bush-bashers Microsoft-Bashers or fan-boys by the likes of you.

Some people like Microsoft products, some people like some Microsoft products while some people hate Microsoft products. I'm one of those people who HATES Zune and Vista and loves XP but I'm certainly not a unamerican liberal Microsoft-Basher.

[HannibalBarca]

131. Yeah, sorry

..Posted before I read your whole reply, apologies.

[Greyhound]

100. The main thing to keep in mind when considering anyhting that comes out of M$

is their long-term goal is to force everyone to eventually write a check to M$ every month by controlling access to all software. You want to write an e-mail to mom using Word? That'll be $.25 for using Word and another $.05 to send it through the MSN network. Need to read that spreadsheet? $.25 for accessing Excell. Want to look at the pics of the new grandbaby? $.25 please. Want to play Medal of Honor on-line? $15 a month.

Want to access DU today? $.15 p/minute and for an additional charge of $.25 you can watch that interview with HRC.

[dsharp88]

107. Vista is only window dressing over XP...

from what I've seen and read, whereas XP was an actual, big step forward over 98/ME.

On the other hand, Apple was already as stable as XP, and made yet anothre giant leap forward last year when they started running with Intel processors and could run WIndow programs.

It seems as though Apples are always one step ahead of Microsoft. Maybe one and a half because Windows still doesn't come bundled with the built in applications Mac OS X does.

[CRF450]

109. Dont know about yaw, but...

I'm perfectly fine with XP for now untill that Crysis game is released. Crysis runs on DirectX 10 and XP wont be DX 10 compatible. So I'll probably get vista within the next year, I'd also like to see how Flight Simulator X runs when the DX 10 upgrade patch is released. So far even the most powerful gaming computer cant run Flightsim X on max graphic settings smoothly.

[Greyhound]

112. It's not the hardware, it's the crappy OS that you have to use.

The hardware in front of you (or under, or beside you) is more than capable of creating, let alone running, the most complex sims in existence.

[CRF450]

120. I highly doubt that

Flight sim 2004 runs smooth as silk on my pc with everything maxed out, even FEAR runs pretty good, plus a number of games I have runs nice and smooth. Specs are Athlon 64 3400 @ 2.2Ghz, 1gig of memory and a 6800gt vid card. Microsoft put so much into FSX that its a real hardware killer currently. I only have the demo of the flight sim with everything maxed out but wouthout air & ground/water traffic, I only get around 6fps (frames per second) and when I'm flying over water, it goes up to 25+fps. I'v done some reading around and found that even the most top of the line systems cant get anymore than 20fps with maxed out graphics over land.

Vista also has a decrease of game performance over XP, usually between 10-20fps on certain games, it wouldn't really matter though, cause most high end pc systems are running games over 100fps. It also draws hardly anymore power than what XP uses. For me its not worth buying right now untill Crysis comes out, or when I see some people getting silky smooth frame rates out of FSX. My next computer will be from ABS pc. I dont like Dells or those other big name computer manufaturers.

[Greyhound]

125. I didn't make myself clear, by referring to the crappy OS I was writing about the M$

OSes. They are so bloated and inefficient, and have been since windoze 1.0, that they get in the way of the applications that you run. The fact that you have a processor that can execute 1,000,000 instructions in a second is, indeed miraculous, the fact that the OS makes this level of performance inadequate, is criminal.

[CRF450]

128. Enlighten me

If my games would run any better on a Linux or Mac system (if they even support the games I play) show me proof of that, show me a link of proof than can possibly sway me to the other side.

[Occulus]

129. I see a definite jump in framerates using OpenGL vs. DirectX

It's not much, but it does happen. Neverwinter Nights runs better for me under linux than it ever did in Windows. UT2K4, same thing.

Doom3 refuses to run in fullscreen in Fedora Core 6 64-Bit, so I can't say the same thing for that. The biggest problem is a lack of binaries for either of the systems you mentioned... but of course, there's Bootcamp for OSX (and I've heard of people running Oblivion smoothly that way), and (blech) Cedega for linux.

I'd stay away from Cedega like it were made of plague, though. There's no guarantee that their binaries will even work, and they obviously don't have binaries for everything out there. This is an issue only developers can solve, and they're not. I don't think it's because "linux isn't popular enough", but rather because they would have to code for both DirectX and OpenGL. There's no real reason except a lack of time and money.

Here's a good link from October of '04 detailing performance in Doom3, comparing Windows and linux.

http://www.linuxhardware.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/12/1725246

This link will also explain some development issues between the two OSes.

[CRF450]

132. So your saying games that are Direct X only

Will have problems running on Linux based systems?

[Occulus]

133. They won't. Period.

DirectX is Micro$oft's, exclusively. However, games that are programmed to support both DirectX and OpenGL might have a linux binary; these do run natively in linux. Truthfully, however, Windows is the best-supported gaming system and I just don't see developers writing linux binaries until it becomes sensible to do so.

This is slowly changing; id software has always released linux binaries, even going back to Quake2. Unreal Tournament 2K4 comes with one on the disc; you can get the Neverwinter binary for linux from the game's homepage if you own the Windows version. But at the moment, linux binaries are very much hit-or-miss. I don't know of an Oblivion linux binary (but I sure wish I did!), and I doubt very much that a Spore or Crysis linux binay will even appear on the radar.

Now, it is possible to emulate Windows in linux to the point that you can run some DirectX games. This is done by TransGaming via their Cedega product; you can download it free via the CVS tree, but lacking binaries, you'll not get much use from it, and you have to subscribe to get the binaries. I personally have yet to get Cedega CVS to properly build in the first place, but that may be an x64 issue. TransGaming itself admits that there may be issues with some of their binaries. I personally would not pay to play a game I already paid for.

Older, non-DirectX games can be run in linux using Wine, but I'd forget about anything 3D with that package. Wine is.. well... interesting. I can get it to work, yes, and it will run some apps, but... it's not really worth it, especially if you're maintaining a dual-boot system for certain apps, as I do.

It's very hard for gamers to get away from Micro$oft, and with that company's desire for developers to move to a closed-source model for drivers and support software, it's only going to get harder.

[CRF450]

135. Thats why I'm sticking with Windows

Since I am an avid gamer. I can see the usefullness of Linux with its great stability being awsome for internet and other apps but XP is doing just fine for me now, and I will have Vista on my next system build, most likely within the next year.

[Occulus]

139. I use my Windows machine for gaming

but I actually prefer linux for everything else. Keeping a dual boot system, as I do, gives you the very best of both worlds. You might want to consider leaving ten or fifteen Gb free the next time you format your hard drive. Make a new partition- I can't remember if XP allows partition creation during setup; it's been a while since I had to establish a "new" second partition- and leave it blank when you install Windows, then after you're done, pop in your latest linux distro and set up your BIOS to look at the CD before the hard drive in the boot sequence. Reboot, install linux on that blank, non-Windows partition, and say bye bye to Micro$oft for everything but gaming.

I'm in the admittedly slow process of setting up absolutely everything I think I might need in Fedora Core 6, which I must say is very nice. One quibble, though: Compiz, the FREE program that does most of what Window$ Aero does, doesn't play well with others. Others, being games. x( So, for now at least, I don't get to have all the eye candy- like wobbly windows, window shadowing/transparency, etc. I'm hoping they fix this in the next build, as it's a major headache for linux gamers.

I like linux. I really do. I'm very happy to be able to examine code, build against my own kernel (which I can optimize for my specific system, editing out capability I don't need and won't use- like a cardreader- which saves memory and ultimately makes the system run faster), build my own applications (should I want to learn how), write my own scripts (again, should I want to learn how), and lots and lots of other, "techie" things that other OSes just don't allow. There are tons and tons of commands on the terminal- that's a command line to Windows users- some of which are used as a matter of course, and others which have a specific use.

The linux terminal, which is what more than anything else scares people away, is absolutely vital to the operating system. There are many commands which don't and won't have a gui widget, simply because they are so rarely used- but so very very specific- that they would only clutter any respectable program menu beyond all hope of being useful. Fortunately, documentation is complete and in most cases exhaustive, especially when the online world is included in 'linux documentation'.

Basically, linux drowns you in information about itself and its capabilities, enabling you, the admin, to concentrate on setting up your system to exactly your specifications. And, if you need a simple device driver, you can- with enough knowledge- literally write one yourself, right out of the box. That's the kind of OS I can be very happy using, even if I don't actually write code: the total and complete freedom is definitely, to me at least, worth the occasional annoyance.

[Greyhound]

137. Flight sim won't run on any other system that I know of (without some serious hacking)

because M$ bought it and, like everything else, they purposely force us to use their OS. If you could get hold of a UNIX/LINUX hacked copy, and the hack is good, it will run much faster and better.

The OP is about the vista abomination (XP for example, is over 29 million lines of code, until vista, the ultimate bloated OS), not which games you can play, and my point is that the M$ OS gets in the way of your hardware's performance.

[CRF450]

138. Bought it??

They've been making the Flight sims since the first one 25 years ago.

[Occulus]

140. Well, okay, but at this point the problem is

Windows has become a PC gaming system. Let's face it: XP, as any other OS, is designed to do a multitude of things, and do them well (however Micro$oft chooses to define that word), but most of Micro$oft's attention to Windows is directed toward gaming. My wording, as I typed it, is unintentionally ironic: They direct their attention to DirectX, which is used mostly for gaming and some other entertainment applications in Windows.

Making Directx10 work fully only in Vista frankly pisses me off. I don't like forced upgrades at all. We, as a society, would never, ever accept such behavior from any other company for any other product. However, how we allowed Windows to get to this point is beyond the scope of this post. My point relates solely to where Micro$oft's attention is directed.

But for gaming, Windows would compete fiercely with linux, especially with Fedora Core 6. That OS, for every purpose except gaming, is actually equal or superior to Windows. It is really only the fact that most developers don't develop for OpenGL as well as DirectX that Windows is as popular as it is.

Please note that I am not talking about business use at all. I am speaking strictly to home use in all of this.

I'm also not intending to bash Windows in general, because I do use it- for gaming- and I'd prefer to use it only for gaming. It's interesting, actually, if you look at it from that point of view, that Micro$oft has done what it has: it has created two gaming systems, one which is a console, and one which is a PC equipped with DirectX.

But what about OpenGL?

I'd love to see developers code for OpenGL and DirectX. To be honest, I'd like to have a system that has about a terabyte of storage, 300 Gb each for Windows, linux, and OSX (if it were even possible!!). I can't have that- yet. Eventually, someone will make just exactly such a thing, and then this silly OS war will be over, as everyone will be able to install everything on the same PC.

And other than that, it is a beautiful day, milord. :D

[Pavulon]

115. Thankfully we do not live in a socialist/communist world

and we can choose between many great operating systems.

Redhad is releasing a new os soon, OS X is strong, as are many other linux distros. Sun is out there and you can still by a power pc and run AIX if you like.

Choice is good.

It is an os, I have used it at the office, it is ok.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

116. Wow. Talk about a one-track mind. -nt

[Pavulon]

117. People get all wound

up about how microsoft sucks. Great, lets talk ford and chevy...It is an OS, there are many choices. It is a funny discussion slightly more intellectual than "mu john deer is better than your massey ferguson"..

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

121. I wasn't talking about software.

I was talking about being obsessed with political hatred to the point of being able to shoehorn such hatred into a thread about which software is better.

[Judi Lynn]

124. Even us hardcore Democrats don't get that over-focused!

Thank God some of us still have our heads screwed on straight!

[ima_sinnic]

122. Vista is very intrusive & will delete programs w/out yr knowledge

It will also purposely degrade premium content -- you know, to appease RIAA and movie industry. It sounds like a giant piece of spyware that will allow you to see what "it" wants you to see.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6319845.stm

I like my XP after these several years and will run with it until "they" disable it.

[Occulus]

141. HDCP is Vista's bane

High Definition Content Protection.

Here's one issue:

You just bought a monitor that claims to be 'HDCP compatible'. You own a blu-ray DVD drive, A license to run Vista (note how I phrased that!), an HD-capable video card, and an HD cable.

The problem? Your monitor, which claims to be HDCP "capable", doesn't actually support HDCP to Vista's satisfaction (you bought the monitor before Vista came out). You're hosed: Vista will cripple the output, even though all your hardware supports HD content.

Here's another nightmare: You're an audiophile. You have a six thousand dollar sound system in your living room, connected to a media center PC case with XP Media Center Edition, on a motherboard that outputs to your supremely high quality audio system via a S/PDIF port.

Vista will cripple your audio quality when you try to play HD audio content.

Why?

S/PDIF doesn't support content encryption/protection. It's not secure enough for Vista. If the content fades in and out, track to track, from HD content to non-HD content, the actual capabilities of the involved ports will 'fade' in and out as tracks start and end.

It's absolutely ridiculous, the level of content protection Micro$oft has put in place. I know it's only a matter of time until it's all hacked, and I have to urge people to wait, and search for cracks and hacks to get around or turn off all the DRM bullshit Micro$oft has built into Vista. This crap isn't needed, in any OS. I absolutely insist upon using my computer in any way I can possibly conceive that's not directly harmful to any other computer system. Vista, far from doing that, actually cripples content based upon it's own internal criteria.

I am not willing to tolerate that for any machine connected to the outside world. If I ever get Vista, it will exist on an isolated machine connected to no networks and used only for gaming with DirectX10.

Vista will never connect to any network in my home. I don't trust it to not 'look around' and 'phone home'.

[Neshanic]

123. Autocadd does not work on Vista. It is not supported.

[Occulus]

142. And that would be absolutely astonishing

Are you sure??

I'm wondering about Maya, and 3D Studio, and Blender....

:wtf:

[Melynn]

126. Love that cartoon

More people are getting hip to Macs. That's because Macs are hip!

[alfredo]

130. there might be a problem with Vista and iTunes. Read

This:


http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/16610585.htm


In a support document updated Thursday, the company warned such customers that its digital music software has some compatibility issues with Vista, the latest version of Microsoft's flagship operating system. Among the known issues: Songs purchased from the iTunes music store may not play; contacts and calendar entries won't sync to customers' iPods; and customers could corrupt their iPod unless they eject it from Windows using iTunes.

The company plans to release an updated version of iTunes ``in the next few weeks'' that will address some of the compatibility issues. However, on the support page, Apple offers a guide on how customers who plan on upgrading to Vista anyway can avoid some of the problems. The process involves de-authorizing customers' computers and uninstalling iTunes before upgrading to Vista.

ITunes isn't the only program that's had trouble with Vista. Microsoft's own Zune software for its rival music players was incompatible with the operating system when it launched in November. The company has since addressed the issue. This spring, Apple is expected to release its own operating system update, Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard.