Teen will be charged in 2006 (fetus) death

[Robb]

Some reports claim fetus involved in case

CASTLE ROCK - An 18-year-old Western State College freshman will be formally charged Thursday in connection with a death that was discovered on the school's Gunnison campus but that occurred in Douglas County in late 2006.

Addie Kubisiak, of Parker, is being held without bail in the Douglas County jail on investigation of first-degree murder. Kubisiak is a former student of Ponderosa High School, where she also served in the school band.

Authorities are saying little about the case. They would not comment on numerous reports that the death involved a fetus.

(more)

...Local (Gunnison) coverage here:
Western freshman charged with murder

[SharonAnn]

1. Colorado

[Megahurtz]

21. You said it. n/t

[Andromeda]

26. Need you say more?

.

[slackmaster]

2. Article is remarkably short on information

:wtf:

[curlyred]

3. there isn't a whole lot more out there anywhere in Colorado

I have been following this story with great interest ever since the mention that the body found was a fetus. That's just an odd way to phrase it. None of the newspapers or TV stations has any information. Very close mouthed about this, which makes me even more curious about the whole thing.

[slackmaster]

4. Does Colorado have a "fetal murder" statute like California's?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

6. They were attempting to pass something like that a year ago

I thought it was shot down due to the fact it didn't omit abortions. I could be wrong however. :shrug:

[curlyred]

11. here is the latest - more than a fetus, it seems

http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=64033

[slackmaster]

13. Ruh- roh

:argh:

[SayWhatYo]

17. I wonder why she kept it...

Some sort of attachment or just out of fear of not knowing how to dispose of it... I'm not really as 'cold' at that last sentence may sound, I'm just trying to figure out the reasoning.

[politicat]

24. So...

born in a car.
To a community college freshman.
In winter.
In late December.

Classes ended on the 15th, and knowing how kids move around at semester breaks in this system, it is reasonable that she was still up the hill through the 19th or so. Finishing a project, or cleaning up, or... She wouldn't be the first kid who didn't high-tail it home the moment finals were over. She would have been coming down 285 from Gunnison, and frankly, Douglas County isn't the middle of nowhere, but you can see the middle of nowhere from there.

Facts say that, if this happened any time after the 20th, bad weather and roads almost certainly played a part. The storm of the 20th and 21st was TERRIBLE, and a student coming home to Parker for the between-semester holiday would probably be traveling on or around those days.

Getting stuck by the side of the road was entirely possible, and western Douglas County is pretty miserable for cell reception.

Now, here's the deduction:

And... this is a kid who was obviously an achiever. Played sports, band, college. (This is the story of my mother in a lot of ways... I was born when she was a college sophomore, 4 months before she turned 20.) She got pregnant probably just before graduating last year. A baby would have ruined everyone's expectations for her. So... she kept it quiet, realizing that she'd be off to college when she started to show, and people there would just think she was getting the Freshman 15. She probably expected to go into labor sometime in early January, before the new term started. Probably she was in denial about how she'd deal with friends and family. She's 18, after all. Thinking ahead... not the strongest teenage skill.

But she didn't have prenatal care, most likely. Probably did her reading online, followed a diet, but no ultrasounds. No checks. And then, ends up in a really stressful situation, stuck in a really bad snowstorm. In labor. In a cold car.

Stillbirth? Possibly. Death from exposure? Also possible. Murder? Dunno. Death by not-able-to-cope-with-circumstances? Certainly.

Poor kid. Both of them.

[Andromeda]

25. There are a lot of possibilities

and anyone of those you mentioned could have happened. She must not have had anyone to turn to that could have helped her through this.

If family or friends would have or could have given her support through this stressful time the baby may have been saved.

This is so sad.

[crim son]

5. The death of a fetus.

I know the article tells me nothing, but my first response to reading it and seeing the young girl's picture is intense anger. Where is the father of the 'fetus'? Will he be charged with neglect? The girl is only eighteen... look at her face. I can hardly stand it.

[SayWhatYo]

9. What? Why?

Why would your first instinct be to spin it and place fault on the father? Perhaps he didn't even know... If he did, then of course he too should receive whatever punishment is put out. However, if he had no idea I do not see why he should be singled out here or why it should even be assumed.

[crim son]

10. My first instinct is to blame it on a society that values the fetus

above the woman. As I said, there is so little information in the article that it isn't even clear if the fetus was the girl's! But it made me think that, as a woman must understand and be vigilant about the consequences of the sexual act, so must the man be. There should be no case where the man does not know he's a father, unless of course, he is lied to. In my experience no lover ever asks, a month after intercourse, "are you pregnant?" It's up to the woman, all of it. Anyway, it was a random thought based on a reaction which I said at the beginning of the post was based on very little. So, don't get excited :)

[SayWhatYo]

16. I'm not really understanding the fetus thing...

"My first instinct is to blame it on a society that values the fetus above the woman"

Where does a baby stop being a fetus? From the sounds of it it sounds as if the baby was born... Are you saying that mothers have a right to kill or allow their new born babies to die?(although, like you said... we're not even sure where the fetus\baby came from or the age of it, so it's all speculation... although I would find it hard to believe someone would be charged with murder for having a miscarriage or something... but who knows?)


Btw, I don't really disagree with anything else you said. :D Oh, and I'm not getting excited, lol, just curious as to exactly what you meant.

[crim son]

18. I made the assumption that she had performed a self-abortion

or some such thing. If the baby was full-term and she killed it then I would still have compassion for her, even as a mother of three children, because I know how completely foreign and unbelievable a pregnancy can be to a woman, but it would make it harder to excuse her, in my mind although there is such a thing as post-partum insanity. Of course our society jails women for that anyway.

I'm glad you're not excited. Every time I post my opinion outside the Lounge somebody tells me I'm a moron. I think I was trying to pre-empt a potential attack. My bad.

[Robb]

7. Just a tiny bit more here:

...in the Denver Post.

The Douglas County coroner's office is investigating the death but declined to release information. However, in an interview with 9News, Chief Deputy Coroner Pat Dunn referred to the victim as a fetus.

"This fetus has not been autopsied yet, so we don't know the age," Dunn said.

[DixieBlue]

8. This seems strange.

I mean, if it's far enough a long they could eyeball it, right?

What a weird story.

[Dogmudgeon]

12. And another junior prosecutor makes his bones

Teenage girls -- so cute, so vulnerable, and they don't fight back.

:sarcasm:

--p!

[AnneD]

14. One of the GOOD things they do in Texas...

Is have a 'baby Moses' law. Hospitals and fire stations have a revolving drop that allows a mother to place the baby in a safe enviroment when giving up custody. There is no charge of abandonment for leaving the baby there. Better than the alternative. I personally don't think these girls should be prosecuted as much as helped-most are just scared kids.

[colorado_ufo]

22. I believe they have this law in Colorado, too.

[hedgehog]

15. It sounds like whoever called the newborn a fetus mis-spoke or

misunderstood the term.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

20. It was the coroner from what I understood

I think he's using the wording until he does the autopsy to determines if it ever lived outside the womb and if so how old it was at the time of death. My understanding was that neither of these had been determined yet.

[Megahurtz]

19. If it's a Fetus, why is she being charged with First Degree Murder?

If it's a Fetus, then it was most likely born dead for whatever reason.
They're targeting her only because they found a body,
a Fetus, but still a body outside the womb.
She should have buried it right away.

She should NOT be charged with murder, I bet it's total bullshit.
They're just doing the "guilty intil proven innocent" thing,

only because they found a body.

They're using their fucking legal loopholes to frame her.
Assholes!:argh:

I feel sorry for her.

[colorado_ufo]

23. Held without bail?

Like she was an immediate danger to all society? A flight risk (to where?)?

[salin]

27. See post #11 for an update