Cardinal Says U.S. Treated Saddam 'Like a Cow'

I don't think this has been posted yet

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&e=1&u=/nm/20031216/wl_nm/iraq_saddam_vatican_dc

"I felt pity to see this man destroyed, (the military) looking at his teeth as if he were a cow. They could have spared us these pictures," he said.

[Malva Zebrina]

1. the poor vatican has a difficult time

sticking by it's Christian and Catholic values in Bush's fascist world of brute, murderous revenge at all costs, even though one is not sure what the revenge is for--I give this Cardinal some credit--he probably does have a vestige of conscience and knows this is another trumped up, staged event that is meant to manipulate childlike followers of Bush. Perhaps he even has an ability to see a vision of the future.

--all that counts in Bush's world is that the people FEEL revenge--over and over and over. Get high on it. Doesn't matter if it is misguided. We know that.

It's quite easy for a con man to appeal to that emotion, as Bush has shown--There is no real evidence as to who did the WTC bombimg--There is, incredibly, even suspicious planted circumstantial evidence!

But a country gone mad with revenge believed it to be Osama and the revenge certainly had to be against the Taliban--who were ugly, brutal and barbaric anyhow, so may as well bomb their country and the civilians to bits since they were really really bad guys and their wimmin needed to be released from the burqua--and Bush successfully carried over that raw, reactionary , reductionism to the revenge feelings of Neanderthal Americans by seguing it over to Saddam.

And, who is next?

Propaganda and manipulation at it's most brilliant--even more brilliant, I would say, than Hitler's team.

I have the feeling that even if the whole Saddam "capture" was another turkey event, or mission accomplished event, it will not matter. He will not get taken to task for it--it has become acceptable, it seems, to lie by misrepresenting the events--simply said--Bush does not care if his lies are exposed--why should he?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

3. Marianne....spot on!

[DUreader]

8. Despite the lack of US media coverage, the C. Churh Opposed this Invasion

from the beginning , IIRC

[Cheswick2.0]

12. you are right and that is why I spend so much time in dispair

even some people here at DU are victim of mob thinking.

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. Not "brute, murderous revenge at all costs"

Saddam was a monster. He was captured and inspected. He will be interrogated and tried.

That sounds like justice to me. Sorry if he didn't like his photos. Most perps don't either.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[Character Assassin]

37. He was shown getting a medical inspection. MLK wouldn't be sick

I realize this might be just a tad bit too deep for your black and white view of reality but even you must realize that MLK worked towards the MIDDLE not the MUDDLE? Nah didn't think so.

He was shown being inspected by a doctor. This is not sick, twisted, unfair or otherwise objectionable.

Have you thought about possibly growing up and not resorting to childish hyperbole?

You are a shining example. Not that he would be proud of you. He would not.

What your father may or may not have been proud of is of no consequence to anyone other than you and him.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

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[Character Assassin]

43. My, what a bracing display of intellect

Take off your blinders dude this was an act of humiliation. You're right what my father and I discuss is of no consequence but he would tell you to eat shit too BTW.

What you imagine your father might say to me is irrelevant to this discussion.

And he is a fucking retired Admiral in the US navy. What are YOU?

I'm a homicide detective.

Got some military experience?

Semper Fi. How about you?

The good Admiral is a republican BTW and he still thinks this is utter fucking humiliation.

You seem to be incapable of understanding what is clearly written to you: I don't care what you father thinks or what he might say. This isn't about him.

You think I'm childish? Well maybe I'll just sick my daddy on you. That would be a fucking hoot.

I don't beat old men down. It's a matter of principle.

[Sideways]

48. Yes Sorry I Am So Stupid

Six years at Berkeley just does that to ones intellect. Dumb Dumb Dumb must be me. Can't think, can't reason, no critical thinking skills...why that honors degree on my wall must be bought off the internet. Of course stupid me. Gee I am really glad you cleared that up. Thanks for sharing.

[Character Assassin]

50. Yes, it does seem to have adversely effected your ability to reason

Six years at Berkeley just does that to ones intellect. Dumb Dumb Dumb must be me. Can't think, can't reason, no critical thinking skills...why that honors degree on my wall must be bought off the internet. Of course stupid me. Gee I am really glad you cleared that up. Thanks for sharing.

You have a propensity for speaking about yourself when no one inquired and no one cares.

[Sideways]

52. Hey Homicide Detective You're Right

Did I answer correctly?

[Character Assassin]

53. This isn't a question of right or wrong.

It's a question of you being able to remain topical and relevant to what's being discussed.

Bringing in what your father might say, threatening to sic him on someone, resorting to 'bite me' and mentioning your degree are all completely irrelvant.

And, frankly, quite boring as well.

[Sideways]

56. If I Am So Boring Why Are You Replying?

You seem quite engaged here.

[Muddleoftheroad]

51. I believe Forrest Gump addressed that better than I can

[chelaque liberal]

46. Where is this hatred coming from?

It seem rediculous to have to remind anyone here that:

1) Saddam did not have anything to do with 9/11
2) Saddam did not have WMD that he intended to use on us
3) Saddan was complying with the UN inspectors and the inspections were working
4) Saddam was our ally when he used the chemical weapons
5) We supplied him with chemical and biological agents
6) WE INVADED HIS COUNTRY, not the other way around

I'm not defending any of the horrible things that he has done but drop the self rightous BS. The US has done horrible things too.

[Muddleoftheroad]

49. My attitude toward Saddam is based on how he treated Iraqis

Murder on a mass scale, invading Kuwait, Iran and attacking Israel, allowing his sons to brutalize whomever they wished.

That's where.

[joshcryer]

67. Simplifying things...

...makes them so much easier for you, eh?

[Just Me]

60. We should be more even-handed about those rules,...

,...concerning displaying people during war,...we are very sensitive about our people being put on display and should show the same kind of sensitivity to all people. I believe this publication was as out-of-order as was the depiction of Saddam's sons. We are looking more and more like tyrants ourselves by engaging in such behavior. We are suppose to be the example by which others follow. Instead, we are behaving as badly and applying double-standards. A stupid thing to do.

[Malva Zebrina]

72. so given your response who do YOU thing will be the next one

to be attacked? Surely you recognize there are more than one hundred evil dictators out there who have subjected their peoples to horrible events, so we say.

Why--come to think of it, muddled and befuddled, Castro may be included in that. He was at the head of a revolution--err well, OK, it was a revolution that was against the crooks who were taking over the land and the economy, something like--well something like the British wanted to do to the colonies--and then, and then --and then--well some thought it wise to resist.

And of course, given that it took the deaths of thousands, maybe tens of hundreds of Iraqi innocents, women and children and old men, and the ten thousands of our own troops, killed and wounded--why goddamit--it is worth it to get rid of this sorry man and kill him.

Next!

[are_we_united_yet]

73. Eye for an eye eh?

[bobthedrummer]

55. Goebbels is laughing at the spectacle

of 21st Century media in the hands of the neo-con traitors.

[windansea]

76. lol!!

the poor vatican also has a problem hiding all the pedophiles

[ze_dscherman]

2. What a good show is worth

The public intrusion into the body of the defeated tyrant, as endlessly repeated in the media, was meant to humilate and dehumanize. A rat, an animal, a bum, a coward, a deranged clown - can't you see what happens to the enemies of the Empire?

Actually, before I was able to feel some relief from seeing a mass-murderer and tyrant that may actually face "justice", my initial reaction was the same as the one described by the cardinal. This was just another broken human being, treated like an animal.

[readmylips]

5. I agree with the Cardinal...

there was no need to televised the medical testing of such a broken human being. His photo said it all. The bushistas love drama, scoring points and dehumanizing dark skin humans. If Saddam would have been 'white like bush' maybe the bushistas wouldn't have made such a show of him.

I read somewhere that his grandchildren cried to see their grandfather in such bad conditions.

[piece sine]

75. I think they're going to pick you

DU has been in quoted in the media a LOT lately, so I'm cruising this thread, mindly of the media landmines inherent in the topic. Wo'll be the DU lucky quotee to get barbequed by the Wall Street Journal online or Andrew Sullivan?

Smart money sez they 'mat and frame' this one. It's a keeper!

[windansea]

77. hehehe right on

[JPace]

4. It's the American way.....

Clean them up, put fresh clothes on them,
cut their hair, drill and fill their teeth,
get them new glasses.......give them a fair
trial and then Euthanize them.

So civilized!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

6. I disagree with the Cardinal

I'm not about to start feeling sorry for Saddam. there are plenty of Iraqi families to feel sorry for, both as a result of his brutal oppression and from American bombs. If the Cardinal wanted to make himself useful he'd start investigating cases of Priest Pedophilia instead of commenting on warfare, which, might i add, is another sacred Catholic ritual.

[DUreader]

7. Pity is not 'feeling sorry for'. Geneva Convention Anyone?

[JoeMemphis]

10. Saddam should be treated worse

Treating him like a cow is much nicer than he deserves.

[Wednesdays]

14. Cool! Treat him like an animal!

Never mind that we're sinking to his level. I thought America was supposed to be better than this.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[chelaque liberal]

41. That proves we are so much better, I suppose.

[jonoboy]

21. but treating Saddam like this is like a slap in the face for Iraqi dignity

..it's like saying to them :"look you allowed yourselves to be led by this coward who hides in a hole..we great humanitarian Americans had to come and save your sorry backward Arab arses"

don't they THINK THINK THINK of how it looks to the rest of the world.

Spin Spin Spin Spin Spin and a photo op for an election thats all that damn well matters..total insanity

[Tinoire]

9. Good for the Cardinal!

I felt total disgust at the depths Bush would sink to to humiliate his adversary who is still a human being as well as to humiliate an entire people. I have to wonder what kind of people are happy to see someone humiliated like that based on the lies of those who destroyed an entire civilization. THERE WAS NO NEED FOR THIS GLADIATOR STUFF!
Have we totally sunk into barbarism?

BUSH and his cabal SUCK! Everything they do is sheer evil and ugliness.

[pink_poodle]

11. He was a monster but he was also still a friend of America...........

when it suited them. The pictures of him, his capture and the hole, are really tacky and show the lynch mob mentallity that has swept America and the press the past couple of years. It just is so barbaric. It makes me afraid of America.

[pippin]

13. Totally agree

Posted elsewhere: decent societies and people don't behave like the criminals or tyrants they hate. We are no longer a society where decency means anything. We made Sadam Hussein and could have stopped him years ago. We didn't do that for our own political expediency. This media circus around his capture is indecent and it reflects the impoverished levels of indecency we've descended into. Sadam is a criminal--no doubt about it-- but the international court of justice must decide his punishment--not the lynch mob media.

[Zero Gravitas]

15. Saddam was a greedy brutal dictator

and our former ally. There is no need to humiliate him like that. Just show footage of him as he was before they cleaned him up and everybody with half a brain can draw their own conclusions about him without some general or FOX News talking head editorializing.

The point is we are supposed to BETTER than Saddam. No matter how bad a guy he is, no matter how many atrocities he commited, WE are supposed to be the CIVILIZED ones. He should be treated like any other prisoner of war with basic human dignity, given a fair trial for his crimes in an appropriate forum and then punished. There is no need for the modern equivalent of being paraded through the streets of Rome.

[Bill McBlueState]

17. speaking of "civillized"

I'm pretty upset by all the talk of executing Saddam. Most of the rest of the world has moved beyond capital punishment, but the US and a third-world theocracy are a perfect match when it comes to execution.

Makes me so proud. :eyes:

Exactly -- we're supposed to be better than Saddam, by *not* killing people to show that killing is wrong.

[pink_poodle]

27. I honestly think that this point is shared by the rest of the world.......

people all over the world are seeing this for what it is. Only the fascist neo-cons are the ones who are celebrating this. Just as everything else with this regime in America right now. No one is fooled unless they want to be.

[0007]

16. Little junior has a saying for every big time event,

and yes, it is a high that thrills this boy king to no end.

Like when he mimicked Carla Fay Tucker, "I don't wanna die" -

"Bring 'em on" - "Mission Accomplished" - Just to name a few.

And in his speech yesterday when he said, "I find it interesting that when the heat got on, you dug yourself a hole and you crawled into it." When in reality Saddam's "capture" appeared to be another staged turkey shoot. With humiliation as the goal!

Something is rotten and stinking up the place! And 'tis not junior's classy way of handling himself either...

[Tempest]

18. Didn't the U.S. claim pictures of U.S. prisoners was a violation?

Seems the hypocrisy of the U.S. government has once again been exposed.

Lihn Walker, Saddam, Iraq POWs...

[0007]

20. That rule only applies to folks who aren't under ONE God!

[jonoboy]

19. every single action Bush & Co take is counter productive

I'm getting so depressed by this new era being ushered in by these right wing fascists..

[CheshireCat]

22. a co-worker

came to my office yesterday and asked me if I felt compassion for Saddam. I told her I did. She said that she felt sorry for him.

There was no valid reason for parading him in front of the video camera's. Saddam has done terrible things, but he is not alone. Many people I know (most are not political in the least) thought Bush went overboard.

What will happen when our soldiers are captured by the other side now that we have thrown the Geneva Convention out the door. I don't even want to think about it.

[Doctor Panacea]

24. It is not about Saddam

Someday this nation will grow up enough to realize that degradation of another human being and the use of capital punishment are not appropriate.

This is not about Saddam. Anyone with any sense knows that the man has tortured and murdered countless thousands of people.

He should be locked away in a prison outside Iraq and forced to spend the rest of his miserable life watching life outside and life in Iraq go on without him.

But the circus surrounding this whole thing is shameful, and it will become more shameful before it is over. ChimpCo will milk it for everything possible.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. People do escape

Remember that guy Napoleon? Jailed and exiled, came back, cost thousands of lives?

No, Saddam needs to pay for crimes, but he needs to be executed so that the threat is removed for all Iraqis.

[Name removed]

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[Muddleoftheroad]

40. Not bloodlust

Just trying to see things as the Iraqis do. They have been raped, abused, brutalized and murdered by Saddam and his thugs and they rightly live in fear that he will return to power.

I think it is their right to try him for what he did. And their right to punish him and protect their families from monsters like him.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

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[Muddleoftheroad]

47. Frankly I don't care where you live

Saddam has brutalized an entire nation and deserves to pay. Further, he poses a longterm threat to the safety of all in that nation. I might not be judge or jury, but I would be willing to be executioner if that's what it takes to rid the world of the likes of him.

No, I am not on the Arab street, but I don't have to be to know that the Arab world is not just coming around to being unfriendly to us in America. The Arab world took the side of the Soviets during the Cold War and no matter how much we might help Arabs (in Kuwait) or Muslims (Eastern Europe), they still fall prey to the wiles of their leaders. Those leaders use both the Israelis AND Palestinians as pawns to keep power and keep their own people from wanting things like food, jobs and freedom.

[tlcandie]

28. Totally Agree Doc ..

This isn't about Saddam and feeling sorry for him. It isn't about feeling compassion for him or not. It IS about how we treat one another (this includes all beings) in this world.

I think this PUBLIC display shows full well just how far society, at least American society, has stooped. But it doesn't surprise me that even those purporting to be middle of the road can find nothing better for human life than degradation, killing, and maiming. Now THOSE are the people I feel compassion for because they are so blinded by their emotions that they think they have none.

Killing is fast. Those wanting death want punishment...severe, strict punishment dished out to perps. IMO living your life in isolation, seclusion w/o freedoms is the ultimate punishment and surely causes a soul to revisit all their atrocities and to deal with them BEFORE they pass to the other side. I think that if and when possible all should have the opportunity to survey their souls and at least have the chance to rectify their hearts. Unfortunately, some people never realize their crimes against life until forced into a corner when life is removed from their surroundings.

[Frangible]

26. Moo

It's a dental inspection, and free dental care is more than most Americans will see.

Where was the good Cardinal when Saddam was torturing people in acid showers, burying them in mass graves, or feeding people into woodchippers? Feeling up some altar boys?

[pink_poodle]

29. Have these claims been proven? And by whom? Or are these........

sort of beefed up to advance the neo-cons? I remember neo-cons ranting about a machine that shreds people and all sorts of rubbish like that, prior to the invasion.........see what I mean? So where is there proof? Some Iraqis themsevles spread this info. in order to support the invasion..........I do believe Saddam is a monster but there are also monsters like Mugabe that no one is doing anything about. I guess there is no oil in Zimbabwe.....

[Frangible]

31. actually yes

Haven't seen direct evidence of the woodchipper, but saw clear video footage of the mass graves and acid torture rooms on the History Channel and other sources.

Saddam wasn't a nice guy. I don't think it was right for us to invade Iraq, but, the man was just a bastard.

[pink_poodle]

33. Yes, I've seen pics of America's gas chamber, electric chair and.........

lethal injection rooms also. I think death sentences, especially for the mentally handicapped in your prisons is horrible. Don't even think for one minute I am trying to defend Saddam. I am saying that people should not throw stones in glass houses.

[Frangible]

39. Wait wait wait

How does the death penalty for crimes in any way relate to genocide and the atrocities he committed? That's an entirely different issue.

Next you'll be saying it's hypocritical for the US to have WMDs and invade another country on suspicion of having them... err wait, nevermind, that is hypocritical.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

66. funded and encouraged by poppy's admin.-supplied him w everything

"a bastard"?
No more like America's
"son"-(of a bitch)***
Set up by the U.S. govt.

***the Bitch being our own "leaders"

also hasn't it been "proven"this Kurd gassing incident was well known to U.S. officials as it was happening. They supported it fully.

Who is the worse criminal--A Mafia Hitman or a Mafia "BOSS"?



.

[Fleshdancer]

30. I don't recall seeing this sort of thing with Milosovik

Then again, I was living overseas when Milosovik was captured so I don't know if video footage was splashed all over the news networks like we're seeing with Hussein.

Sure, Hussein was a twisted prick of a tyrant, but Milosovik is charged with genocide, right? Or "ethnic cleansing" as we now call it. Granted Hussein gassed the Kurds, but did he go after the entire Kurdish population? My history is bit fuzzy right now. Any comments supporting or debunking my post is welcomed.

[pink_poodle]

32. Where is the proof he gassed the Kurds - there are also...........

people saying it was Iran or another country who gassed them but America is blaming him for everything. So a trial would be good to determine what is propoganda and what is truth. I posted above if you care to see my views. We need to be sure that we are not like the freepers and running to join any lynch mobs based on admin. lies. See what I mean?

[mgrier6953]

62. Here is the link(bloody friday)

caution this has some graphic images!

http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html

[mgrier6953]

63. here is a link from off that same web site.

http://www.ikurd.info/intw-mamitay.htm

[chelaque liberal]

34. What did the Geneva Convention say about the humilation of POWs?

My letter to the Atlanta Journal and the local Atlanta television stations:

While watching the news this morning I experienced the unsettling feeling of observing something with my eyes while hearing something entirely different with my ears. While a former GA POW was saying "Saddam Hussein won't have to go through what we went through. We treat our prisoners better than they do," the humiliating images of our famous prisoner were being shown, for what must have been the 1,000th time, having lice picked from his head like a primate being groomed. I wonder, did I catch a movie version of George Orwell's Animal Farm by mistake?

[foo_bar]

68. it's not a grooming ritual

The point is to see if lice are present, not to pick them out and go nummy nummy. From the footage it actually seemed like the doc was checking for head injuries, contrary to journalistic portrayal; typically you examine behind the ears and the nape of the neck for lice, preferably with a fine tooth comb. Maybe that's too gross for TV.

[Freddie Stubbs]

35. Did someone say Saddam burgers?

I suppose after he is executed the Iraqis could make some Saddam burgers and send them Saddam's Palestinian supporters. Yummy.

[fshrink]

44. US treated its own people like a herd.

Saddam is naturally treated like anyone of us. With the slight change in decorum required by propaganda (ever seen a picture of a potus right out of bed?)

[Rex]

54. What's the difference between Stalin and Saddam?

Stalin died without paying for his crimes. I feel no pity for Saddam, but still think he should get a fair trial.

[rudeboy666]

57. And what happened with Mussollini?

They hanged his fascist ass.

[Ellen Forradalom]

58. It's not like they were anally probing him on TV

I could've lived without seeing that footage, but a dental exam and a head check didn't strike me as particularly humiliating.

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. They could have branded him

:evilgrin:

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

65. on tv? looks like how they used to check Slaves--so cool-He's our slave

We are his masters now.
That'll show our strength as a nation.

Maybe we need dope up chimpy& his poppy and check his teeth on TV, as well for helping and supporting this "evil" dictator.
Aren't the higher ups sort of accomplices in any crime?

Let the trials begin!
Chimpy's family is involved in a big way.

[Character Assassin]

70. Puh-leez. You're projecting.

looks like how they used to check Slaves--so cool-He's our slave

It's SOP for how they treat prisoners. It has nothing to do with slavery.

We are his masters now.
That'll show our strength as a nation.

Not really.

[drfemoe]

64. I felt humiliated too ...

While I believe Saddam was the master designer of his own destruction, the televised medical exam was a disgusting display of so-called 'conquest'.

[pinto]

69. Lou Dobbs on CNN: "Who does the cardinal think he is?" n/t

[sujan]

71. I simply do not care

[johnfunk]

74. If they'd REALLY wanted to humiliate Saddam, they'd have...

... given him a

Queer Eye Makeover!

Now howd'ya think that would go over with the "Arab Street" and the mullahs?