BBV - Critics: Convicted felons worked for electronic voting companies

[Kelvin Mace]

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/7507193.htm

At least five convicted felons secured management positions at a manufacturer of electronic voting machines, according to critics demanding more stringent background checks for people responsible for voting machine software.

Voter advocate Bev Harris alleged Tuesday that managers of a subsidiary of Diebold Inc., one of the country's largest voting equipment vendors, included a cocaine trafficker, a man who conducted fraudulent stock transactions, and a programmer jailed for falsifying computer records.

*snip*

DU's voting doyenne strikes again!

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
http://www.plan9.org

[gristy]

1. Nice to see this in the Mercury News

Do you think AP will broadcast it? Hope so.

[gristy]

2. An-DEE, An-Dee, An-DEE!

:yourock:Harris and Andy Stephenson, a Democratic candidate for secretary of state in Washington, conducted a 10-day investigation in Seattle and Vancouver, where the men were convicted. Harris and Stephenson released the findings in a 17-page document online and at a news conference in Seattle.

[Tansy_Gold]

3. A person's criminal background is not evidence of current. . .

. . . wrongdoing.

While it may be safe to assume that reasonable people would not hire convicted embezzlers or computer thieves to work on such sensitive matters as electronic voting, the fact that these men have criminal backgrounds is not evidence of their having commited anything wrong at Diebold.

Does the revelation that Diebold employed these people suggest that we all ought to be fearful enough of the security of our electoral process that we demand an investigation? Hmmm, well, probably.

But it's not necessarily a tactic I approve of. And while I'm sure the BBV folks -- whose actions and objectives I heartily DO approve of -- aren't going to change their practices on the basis of my approval or lack thereof :-), I have a feeling this is the kind of evidence that will not hold up under the kind of scrutiny that Diebold will demand.

I'm not saying these guys are innocent, but if I were a judge or their defence counsel, I sure wouldn't accept this as proof of their guilt.

Playing the devil's advocate this time,

Tansy Gold

[Robbien]

6. Whoring media only picks up a story if it has scandal

So yes you are right, these scandal riddled guys may be innocent. But now the light is shining on them. Up till now, voting systems with bad coding got little press and voting machine companies sold and sold their faulty machines to taxpayers in secret.

But now, because of the scandal, someone turned on the light and the whole black hearted process may not proceed in secret. It is possible this story could be the one to make the difference.

[aquart]

7. But were they hired BECAUSE of their backgrounds?

You don't go to a person you presume to be honest and ask for a few suspicious changes in the code. That person might ask questions that drive him to throw himself out a window, or shoot himself in the temple.

[Tansy_Gold]

13. *IF* they were hired *BECAUSE* of their backgrounds. . . . .

. . .. .then the original claim in the original post is invalid -- that they were hired without sufficient background checks.

Again, I'm playing devil's advocate in this because I think Diebold and ES&S and all the others are the very worst enemies of democracy. I'm not supporting them at all. But I do want this story to grow legs, millions of 'em, and it won't do that if someone can come along and easily quash it, like a bug.

You can't argue that Diebold and/or ES&S need to do more background checks and put up these guys' criminal backgrounds as evidence that insufficient background checks were done AND AT THE SAME TIME claim Diebold hired them because of their criminal records. Either Diebold knew or they didn't: can't have your cake and eat it, too.

[LiberalFighter]

9. It is a matter of the public good

to ensure that our elections are safe from tampering and/or fraud.

A question to ask in this matter is why were these people hired? They are placed in a situtation that their employment could be jeopardized as well as having criminal charges. Basically, a catch 22 situation.

The company knowingly hires or well place individuals are permitted to hire without proper procedures individuals that have questionable talents. Those individuals are then put in a position of either following management orders or losing their jobs. If they do they then risk being prosecuted when caught and going to jail.

[Cheswick2.0]

10. ah, so people with the same name as a felon can't vote......

I know what you mean, however the public must trust that the voting process is fair and accurate. So getting the public all riled up about felons messing in the process I am all for it. If it will stop this horrible voting system regardless of the finer details of the law.

[Kelvin Mace]

11. Missing a few points here...

First of all, did Diebold do its "due dilegence" before it bought GES? If not, then why not? Seems to me that people in HIGH and SENSITIVE positions in the company with criminal records are a major concern if I am buying a company. If I am a stockholder in the company doing the buying I certainly would be asking a lot of questions.

If Diebold "missed" these curious points, then you MUST ask what else Diebold missed in this company and in its other divisions.

Diebold is firmly embedded in practically every bank in the country, the vast majority of the ATMs and even the Federal Reserve. Are there other convicted embezzlers overseeing programs which transfer money between banks?

Also, a single convict wouldn't raise much concern, but FIVE, with THREE in high positions.

Give me a break.

These people are DIRECTLY involved in the machinery which selects the leader of the free world. I'm afraid some jobs MUST be beyond the reach of people who embezzel, swindle and deal, even if "reformed"

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
http://www.plan9.org

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. Actually TG, you do bring up a good point since one would have

to know what Diebold's hiring practices are otherwise. While I support full employability for ex-cons, one wonders whether Diebold employs them to service ATM machines...if so, what are their prior crimes? What info do they have access to? It is relevent.

[SharonAnn]

16. The point is that they're very vulnerable to blackmail.

You know, "Do this or I'll publish your record and you'll never get another job again."

[Beetwasher]

27. It Still Stinks to High Heaven and It's Definitely Something the Public

has a right to know and it's definitely a news story. Is it proof of anything? Only that Diebold has serious security issues and shitty hiring practices, something that is very relevant when considering whether they deserve contracts to creat machines and software to count our votes...

[short bus president]

28. I don't think it's meant as "evidence of present wrongdoing"

so much as evidence of Diebold's indifference to security. How many other tech companies are going to hire into management capacity a person once convicted of falsifying computer records? This is why HR departments use criminal background checks. I cannot fathom an HR department discovering past computer-related fraud and hiring the convicted felon anyway for a position where the same criminal conduct is possible. It's just irresponsible. Kinda like developing voting software around an Access database, or building in wireless networking capacity. I take this article to be an indictment against Diebold corporate security practices.

[HereSince1628]

4. You know, this makes me mentally ill ... a real category crisis

People do bad things, they get convicted, serve their sentences and maybe, just maybe they are entitled to getting on with their lives.

I know about repeat offenders, and all the other rhetoric liberal and conservative...

And I know voting systems deserve to be protected, maybe that includes excluding employees that have felony offenses in their backgrounds.

But, the goddess damned machines will be recording votes for a lot of people who ARE widely presumed if not yet to be punished felons...


I am definitely in need of some of Auntie Gert's remedies. I am in category crisis. Who's right, who's wrong, is this necessary, is this unnecessary, is this fair, is this unfair?

[aquart]

5. We Don't Let 'Em Vote, We Let 'Em Count The Votes!

Golly, I bet that Jeffrey Dean would never think of taking a bribe or a bonus to write some really sneaky election-stealing code, now would he?

[LiberalFighter]

8. It depends on the state

Some states allow felons automatically to have their right to vote restored.
Some states require felons to petition for that right.
Some states do not permit felons to vote under any circumstances.

Fact Sheet: States That Bar Ex-Offenders from Voting

Restoring the Right to Vote: Isn't it Time?

[Rose Siding]

14. Anyone know how the company is trading?

I am not stock market literate.

[Kelvin Mace]

15. $52.57, down $0.73

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=dbd

Of course this won't have any effect until tomorrow, if any.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
http://www.plan9.org

[Rose Siding]

18. thanks

I'll try to watch.

[Rose Siding]

17. paper rec'ts by 2006?!

Hurry and close that barn door cuz the horse ran off.

snip>
Computer programmers say software bugs, hackers or electrical outages could cause more than 50,000 touch-screen machines used in precincts nationwide to delete or alter votes. California Secretary of State Kevin Shelley announced Nov. 21 that touch-screens in the nation's most populous state must provide paper receipts by 2006.

[Fovea]

19. **DING DING DING**

It's time to play RICO land, boys and girls.
Criminal conspiracy that hires ex criminals to administer the sytem that safeguards the public trust.

Presumption of innocence, *fine*. But here is an appearance of corruption, and the standard sets at that level for govenmental ethics, not at the criminal trial level of presumption of innocence.

Time for an Investigation at the congressional level, subpeonas, the works.

[gate of the sun]

20. Unconvicted felons

own the company and have unconvicted felons who are governmental sponsers. So what's the difference?

[preciousdove]

21. Hope all the Indy Voting Experts got their flu shots! n/t

:scared:

[PurityOfEssence]

22. Thick as thieves

Diebold and Debeautiful: a man who conducted fraudulent stock transactions, and a programmer jailed for falsifying computer records.

[dusty64]

23. More of the iceberg is

showing by the day. How much more can they get away with. When I discuss the issue with people (and NO one knows anything about it), I tend to focus also on the executives of these companies ties to the "christian reconstructionist" movement (something they've also heard NOTHING about). This is frightening and provides ALL the motivation for their crimes, they make NO secret of wanting to turn our Country into a theocracy. Why else would they be involved in our "voting" process.

[cybildisobedience]

24. the irony

Bush & Co. wants to make sure convicted felons who have paid their debt to society can't even vote, but these guys can run the companies that tally the vote.

[grasswire]

25. a consideration

I appreciate Pansygold's sentiments above. I don't find an outrage in felons working for any entity.

However. I am familiar with too many stories where medical examiners are used as FIXERS simply because their professional past contains some incriminating tidbits and compromises.

People whose shady past precludes their employment in their profession can be employed as FIXERS. It happens regularly in the field of coroners.

THAT is my concern.

[Kelvin Mace]

26. There are convicts and there are convicts

Jeff Dean was convicted of 23 felonies each with a maximum term of 10 years each. This is not the kind if person I want programming voting machines. If he was writing game software, that would be cool, but not anything this important.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
http://www.plan9.org

[Tansy_Gold]

30. Coroners & MEs & Fixers of all kinds

You have a point, grasswire. I don't argue that. I think the case in Florida involving the death of former congressperson Joe Scarborough's aide Lori Klausutis is a prime example: the ME had a shady background and was possibly leaned on to provide a non-incriminating death certificate.

And I'm certainly not saying that all convicts who have served their sentences are suddenly angels.

My point was merely that the existence of a criminal record should not automatically preclude a person from being considered for employment. If these people concealed their criminal records, if their employer turned a blind eye (for whatever reason), if the record is extensive and indicates a deep history of wrong-doing, if the crimes are in the exact field that the person is employed and if the crimes indicate a likelihood of some kind of security risk -- such as an ME who ignores evidence of a contagious disease as a cause of death, thus putting others at risk or a computer programmer who has been convicted of repeated offenses involving computer fraud -- then the record becomes relevant.

I'm not saying that in the Diebold case the criminal records were irrelevant. I'm only saying that in order for them to BE relevant, there has to be more than just "HEY, LOOK, THESE GUYS ARE EX-CONS!!! HORRORS!"

And I do think that if it can be shown that the BBV activists are willing to give people the benefit of the doubt up to a point BUT that there comes a time when "reasonable doubt" is too much of a stretch, then the point becomes more acceptable. A press that will read about a single conviction and say, "Oh, geez, they're grasping at straws; nothing to report here" is less likely to turn away if the facts are laid out in a non-hysterical fashion. I suspect that was done elsewhere, but not here on DU. My hysteria detector is usually on, because I've seen too many (and been guilty of it often enough myself) jump to quick conclusion based on insufficient evidence.

In this case, however, I think the evidence is probably sufficient. It just needs to be played out to the press and to the electorate in the most effective manner. And I'm not saying that Bev and Andy haven't done that.

And the moniker isn't Pansygold, it's Tansy Gold. Different flower. :-)

[54anickel]

29. That vast left-wing conspiracy group strikes again.

;-)

I know that many of the IT Security firms I worked with (back in my employed days) did hire people known for cyber crimes. They were some of the best hack testers you could find. Of course, they usually were not allowed to write the code, simply test it.