9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable

[Qutzupalotl]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/eveningnews/main589137.shtml
Tom Kean was just on CBS News. Here's part of the article from their site:

(CBS) For the first time, the chairman of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks is saying publicly that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented, reports CBS News Correspondent Randall Pinkston.

(snip)

Appointed by the Bush administration, Kean, a former Republican governor of New Jersey, is now pointing fingers inside the administration and laying blame.

"There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed. They simply failed," Kean said.

(snip: edited to add...)

Kean promises major revelations in public testimony beginning next month from top officials in the FBI, CIA, Defense Department, National Security Agency and, maybe, President Bush and former President Clinton.

[La_Serpiente]

1. WHOA!!!!

that is HUGE!!!!

[Robb]

2. Yeah...

...wonder what Kean ran across that he can't talk about, but that is obviously pissing him off?

[joeunderdog]

120. Here's a little of what Kean may be talking about...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4582.htm

Maybe the news is so disturbing that it transcends partisanship...

[zanana]

174. Kean will probably "modify" his statement

before he goes public with the facts. With this administration, it happens all the time.

[cthrumatrix]

3. this is major...shrub is "toast"....he's gone

[dusty64]

61. I wish I could believe

that, but I've seen our regime given free passes by our adoring media and kneepad Democrats in Congress for ALL of their crimes and scandals. Count me as one who will now believe it when I see it.

[Lorien]

68. I'll second that

I've lost count of the times we've heard "this is the smoking gun"! and "This will bring down the illegal squatters in the WH"! The press prefers to turn away from true scandals (unless they are Democrats scandals) and focus on plastic turkeys and grubby, impotent ex-dictators instead.

[chromotone]

73. agreed...

Any "revelations" will no doubt implicate (anonymous) personnel in the intelligence-gathering communities...

However, one can hope...

[Occulus]

78. no, no,

this is bigger than Watergate. Much, much bigger. People died this time. Lots and lots of people.

The results of this 'failure' are so totally horrible.... and heads need to roll. We can't afford this kind of incompetance. Even, and perhaps especially, if it includes the President.

If what this man is implying turns out to be wholly true, well... * and his buds should be going to jail until the end of their lives.

[Cooley Hurd]

103. The tide has been turning against Shrub for a while now...

I think the media can't even lie for him anymore. They stopped giving him a pass in May 2002, when the August 6th memo came to light. They've let him slide on things since then, but that was the end of the honeymoon for Bush and the media.

The carrier landing stunt was the straw that broke the camel's back. The media, especially CNN, has been consistent in noting "this is the X death since May 1st, when Bush declared major combat over," when reporting on new coalition casualties in Iraq.

Their cynicism is long overdue.

When this goes mainstream, probably within a few days, it'll be THE campaign issue... This is definitely big!

[dusty64]

130. His lies in order

to get us into an illegal war which has killed thousands doesn't seem to bother too many people. Don't get me wrong, I know he had something to either cause or NOT stop 9/11. I want nothing more than for these criminal to pay for their crimes, I'm just extremely cynical after seeing them walk free time after time.

[Occulus]

212. well now

"I know he had something to either cause or NOT stop 9/11."

Not too hard to dig for proof- he sat there in a classroom while it was happening. At the same time, due to the publicity surrounding this television appearance, he was also endangering the lives of a whole bunch of kids. After all, he was told "America is under attack", and then did nothing, even though everyone knew exactly where he was.

Or was he endangering that classroom full of children? His sitting there calmly, not leaving, only makes sense if he knew those kids weren't in any danger at all.

And the logical extensions I'll leave to all of you to fill in. Shouldn't be too hard...

[SammyWinstonJack]

194. Clinton or Gore would be "toast" and gone

Shrub* will skate. Then again, I seriously doubt that 9/11 would have happened at all under either a Clinton or Gore Admin.

[Selwynn]

206. MAJOR? Wishful thinking -

It's barely even being reported and the public doesn't give a damn.

[Nlighten1]

4. This is huge...

I wonder how long it will take before Clark and Dean jump on it.

[htuttle]

5. Given the way Shrub reacted to the Dean/911 question Monday

I can't wait to see his reaction to this...

[Basurero]

14. The jig is up.

Smirk was that scared.

[burythehatchet]

146. compare the response to his implosion on the question in the press conf.

to the following quote:

Kean promises major revelations in public testimony beginning next month from top officials in the FBI, CIA, Defense Department, National Security Agency and, maybe, President Bush and former President Clinton.

[Alpharetta]

175. Dem candidate will need to run against both Bush AND Clinton

If Bush's defense is "Well Clinton was lax too" the Dem candidate is best off saying "that's right. time for a change."

[Cooley Hurd]

185. Actually they should defend Clinton...

Clinton's efforts against terrorism were by far more effective than the Bush administration's pre-9/11 (and, arguably, post 9/11 as well). Anytime a repug pipes up about Clinton and terrorism, they should be reminded of Clinton's attempt to beef up airline security, which was shot down by the Repug-controlled congress in 1996. See: CNN - President wants Senate to hurry with new anti-terrorism laws - July 30, 1996

[Alpharetta]

203. Democratic candidate needs to say "no excuses"

Yes many of Clinton's attempts to stop Osama were thwarted by others.

But with the benefit of hindsight, we know now Clinton should have been more adamant about Congress's failure to back him up.

The candidate needs to say "No excuses. No room for more organizational failures. No reason not to tighten banking laws to stop the flow of funds to terrorist organizations. etc."

The conservatives make the point that Clinton was too busy fighting the blowjob war. Sure, we can argue the wastefulness of Starr and his organization. But the smart thing for us to do is to agree it was an unfortunate distraction from the duties of the presidency that won't happen with this candidate.

I don't defend Clinton. I want to move forward.

[Cooley Hurd]

209. Clinton was in no position to fight the vicious attacks...

...against him, especially in 1996 (I remember the tone - the level of hostility towards Big Dog was BRUTAL from 1995 until the end of his term). Bill Clinton has nothing to be excused on, he did *everything* in his power to fight terrorism. Bush did not...

[LiberalFighter]

217. Don't forget tagging gunpowder in ammo

I believe they were called taggants mixed with the gunpowder. It was rejected by the Repugs.

[Skittles]

223. Clinton WASN'T LAX ON TERRORISM

repugs in Congress stymied a lot of his efforts

[Alpharetta]

227. our candidate needs to condemn the status quo

Clinton did not sound the alarm

Bush did not sound the alarm until AFTER 9/11. Before 9/11 he rejected banking measures to squeeze Osama's money supply.

Our candidate can't get dragged into defending Clinton or the status quo. He needs to say things still aren't right and he can do better than ANY past administration and won't accept excuses.

Product differentiation. It works.

[qanda]

6. Wow!

Just Wow!!!!

[DemExpat]

7. Is this for real????

If it is......

:kick: :kick: :kick:

DemEx

[Cush]

8. yup

It was on the CBS Evening News, it was the second story (Hinckley was first)

[DemExpat]

11. This is unreal....like the Twilight Zone.....

I can't believe this would really happen!

:kick:

DemEx

[Qutzupalotl]

9. Yes...I still can't believe it...

I thought Kean was going to be a whitewash like Kissinger. Guess he has only so much patience for stonewalling.

PUBLIC HEARINGS!!! Bush may testify!

[DemExpat]

16. Don't want to get my excitement and desire for some justice

too riled up here.....

:-)

DemEx

[Robbien]

25. According to New Zealands Scoop

"It is surprising," said John Weingart, associate director of the Eagleton Institute of Politics at Rutgers University. "I think Tom Kean has a deservedly wonderful reputation as a smart and unquestionably honest public citizen with a wide range of experience in government, but that wide range was on the domestic side."

snip

The Bushies may be hoping that Kean's lack of experience in security matters will make him ineffectual. They may be right. But Kean is a smart man with integrity, and he may prove them wrong.

And, at least, he's no Henry Kissinger.

So Kean has a secret weapon, integrity.

[Robb]

184. Integrity?

That should totally baffle * and company. :)

[wildwww2]

216. I honestly think Bu$h Inc. likes to kill people of integrity!

If you are the enemy they either destroy you perosnally (scandals aplenty) or physically (Wellstone, Carrnahan,Baxter) or both. The media likes to give people the impression that there is something wrong with you if you don`t suck Bu$h`s butt like they do. If the media would at least admit they were fascist. That might be a start to real recovery. And not a Bu$h Inc. "Fuzzy Recovery" which the media prostitutes have been howling in ecstasy for a while. News flash. It ain`t happening.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[never cry wolf]

10. YIKES!!

This must mean that shrubbie & co. will have to declare martial law sooned than expected.

[Tuttle]

13. Either that or march out Bin Laden

or both

Tut-tut

[LiberalFighter]

86. Then it would be justified

to use any and all force against those involved with martial law.

[TankLV]

117. Here here.

I've always said that.

Just let them try.

I know what I'll be advocating!

[kanrok]

12. Un-freaking-believable

I read this article, then re-read it to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me. My very first reaction was a sad, sad feeling and a terrible remorse for the families of the victims. Now, I'm pissed.

[KittyWampus]

42. For Some Stupid Reason I'm Crying

I cried the first time watching Bill Moyers on NOW.

[stlsaxman]

232. Wow! So did I!!!

I cried because finally there was a voice of reason. And at the end of the show,
with tears in my eyes, alone in my apartment, I gave Bill Moyers a standing
ovation.

[caledesi]

44. That's exactly how I felt kanrok - sad, then pissed! eom

[Ladyhawk]

151. Ditto on that. So sad, then angry. eom

[tlcandie]

15. I'm not surprised that this is happening ... why else would the 9-11

widow be filing a lawsuit against this whole regime and any others indicted in the horror..

:bounce: :party:

[Occulus]

123. speaking of which

doesn't this enhance the credibility of the RICO suit she filed?

And aren't racketeering charges just bitchingly hard to defend against anyway?

[mikehiggins]

17. Shazam!

Now what, Chimpy?

What the hell is Kean thinking? Isn't he a Republican?

It reminds me of the song the British army played when they surrendered to the colonials. "The world turned upside down."

Kudos to Kean and let's hope he doesn't take any private planes anytime soon.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

27. What the hell is Kean thinking?

Kean is from a different bolt of goods, as repugs go. he is from a time when there was a modicum of dignity and honor in their party, and when it was understood that they were involved in governance of all the people, not selling out to the highest bidder.

Right now, in NJ, there is a pitched battle raging quietly, for the heart and soul of the repugs. On one side you have the traditional repugs and on the other side, you have the neo-con, frothing right-wing idealogue. Lemme tell you, after this last assembly election, I learned that the moderate wing will make some interesting...errm...stances...to take down the frothers. Most interesting indeed.

[banana republican]

91. This is what happened with Nixon.

At the start of watergate, only the Democrats were upset. Towards the end even the Republicans were pissed of at Nixon and threatening impeachment.

Maybe the Honest Republicans have had enough.

[truthspeaker]

180. we had a similar battle in Minnesota

The moderates lost. I met a guy who tried to run for state office as a Republican. He was pro-life (ie, anti-abortion rights), but the party grilled him, and ultimately rejected him, because his anti-abortion stance was not based on the "correct" interpretation of the Bible.

[maggrwaggr]

18. We've all known this for HOW long?

Once again DU is WAY ahead of the curve .....

The media is dead. Long live DU

[caledesi]

46. Yes, it people want the real news, come to DU. eom

[Cha]

19. Thank you!

"How is it possible we have a national security advisor coming out and saying we had no idea they could use planes as weapons when we had FBI records from 1991 stating that this is a possibility," said Kristen Breitweiser, one of four New Jersey widows who lobbied Congress and the president to appoint the commission."

[Cocoa]

57. Breitwieser gets a lot of credit for this

she and the other families have been pushing hard the whole time, at every step. Without them, there may not even have been ANY investigation.

edit: and they were the ones who cried foul about Kissinger.

[bpilgrim]

101. AGREED!

they are true patriots :toast:

peace

[Junkdrawer]

20. Well, the odds of a "wag-the-dog" just went up 1000%....

:scared:

[thebigidea]

21. so, any of that folks always bawling about "conspiracy theorists" around?

Feel free to chime in, fellers.

[Junkdrawer]

24. They're recruiting help...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=929355&mesg_id=929355

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=932763#932836

[qanda]

32. You know

I was going to say something about that, but... You beat me to it! Are those crickets I hear?

[foo_bar]

149. everything's preventable if you believe in free will

PNAC sounds like a variation on a fluffernutter.

[Qutzupalotl]

22. I hope they call Cheney to testify.

It's just a hunch, but I'll bet his fingerprints are all over this. He does have motive, means and opportunity.

[caledesi]

48. The dick, Cheney was definitely involved. Go find "caveman." eom

[goforit]

235. Ahhhh....PNAC...Taliban....Osama.....Oil

Hmmmmmm..............

Lets us lift the rug from underneath his feet.....
How much has been swept under?

[proud patriot]

23. Woa !

:wow:

[louis-t]

26. This is amazing

but I'm not getting my hopes up. You can bet shrubkin has a bunch of people working on this night and day trying to find a way to squeeze out of it. Spinning spinners and the spinners who spin.:wow:

[slor]

35. May the whole BFEE...

and friends face the wrath of the American people that they so richly deserve!!!!

[colorado_ufo]

126. And may the American people who were too busy to read

or too indifferent to care or too partisan to think or too self-centered to look to the welfare of their nation - HANG THEIR HEADS IN SHAME.

[Stephanie]

28. Did Kean look at the PDB yet?

Is that what pissed him off? Did he get to take a look at the (redacted) copies of the President's (sic) Daily Brief, the CIA report, that they were going to subpoena? Or is the public domain evidence enough to convince him?

Paging Dr. Dean.

[Bandit]

29. I only hope they try and implicate President Clinton

I think a lot more would come to light. All Bush* could think about was a month long vacation. The buck needs to stop where it belongs. Bush* Administration let America down horribly and America needs to know this.

[Stephanie]

39. That was no vacation, that was Bush the Cowardly hiding from danger

Bush Knew, Bush got the hell out of Dodge.

www.msnbc.com/news/907379.asp?0cv=KA01
The Secrets of September 11
The White House is battling to keep a report on the terror attacks secret. Does the 2004 election have anything to do with it?

April 30 — Even as White House political aides plot a 2004 campaign plan designed to capitalize on the emotions and issues raised by the September 11 terror attacks, administration officials are waging a behind-the-scenes battle to restrict public disclosure of key events relating to the attacks.

<snip>Some sources who have read the still-secret congressional report say some sections would not play quite so neatly into White House plans. One portion deals extensively with the stream of U.S. intelligence-agency reports in the summer of 2001 suggesting that Al Qaeda was planning an upcoming attack against the United States—and implicitly raises questions about how Bush and his top aides responded. One such CIA briefing, in July 2001, was particularly chilling and prophetic. It predicted that Osama bin Laden was about to launch a terrorist strike “in the coming weeks,” the congressional investigators found. The intelligence briefing went on to say: “The attack will be spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties against U.S. facilities or interests. Attack preparations have been made. Attack will occur with little or no warning.”

The substance of that intelligence report was first disclosed at a public hearing last September by staff director Hill. But at the last minute, Hill was blocked from saying precisely who within the Bush White House got the briefing when CIA director Tenet classified the names of the recipients. (One source says the recipients of the briefing included Bush himself.) As a result, Hill was only able to say the briefing was given to “senior government officials.”


www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A15957-2001
Summer Spinning
To GOP, Vacation Boosted Bush Agenda; To Democrats, Voters See a Shirk Ethic
Aug 29, <2001>

<snip>The White House had announced that Bush would stay at his 1,600-acre ranch in Crawford from Aug. 4 through Labor Day on Sept. 3, a 31-day stretch that would have broken a modern record for a presidential vacation, held by Richard M. Nixon for a 30-day trip to San Clemente, Calif., in 1969. News reports played up the record, and a Gallup Poll found that 55 percent of respondents thought Bush's vacation was too long.

The length of the trip revived old questions about Bush's work ethic, and the poll and the news coverage caused consternation in the White House. Aides said they had planned an ambitious schedule for Bush as long ago as late June, but reporters were not told about it, even after they landed here. The White House, suddenly defensive, took every opportunity to show Bush on the go and even created a "Western White House" logo for the briefing room at Crawford Elementary School. Bush revealed that his ranch had new video conferencing equipment for keeping in touch with his national security team.

www.jacksonholenews.com/Archives/NewsArchive/2001/010815-News.html
News story - Aug. 15, 2001
A Working Vacation
Vice President Cheney plans to fish, travel during month-long valley sojourn.
By Angus M. Thuermer Jr.

Vice President Dick Cheney took time off from his month-long working vacation Monday to outline his plans for August in Jackson Hole and to reflect on "an amazing year."

Cheney, who will live at his Teton Pines home about six miles west of Jackson until Labor Day, defended his energy policy, supported a local decision to limit drilling around the Gros Ventre Wilderness, recalled a life of service in Washington and said his health problems are not affecting his ability to fish for trout on his favorite Western waters.

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/07/26/national/main303601.shtml
Ashcroft Flying High
WASHINGTON, July 26, 2001

(CBS) Fishing rod in hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft left on a weekend trip to Missouri Thursday afternoon aboard a chartered government jet, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term.

"There was a threat assessment and there are guidelines. He is acting under the guidelines," an FBI spokesman said. Neither the FBI nor the Justice Department, however, would identify what the threat was, when it was detected or who made it.

[stevedeshazer]

114. Great compilation

They knew something was going down.

[LeftHander]

173. That is when they allowed it to happen

Each had a role in turing their backs. Secret conversations away from listening devices.

THose bastards knew.

[many a good man]

65. Gotta admit...Clinton failed us, too

To be brutally honest, it sounds like Clinton may have had enough information to justify proposing clamping down on airline security: reinforced cockpit doors, searches, etc.

Of course, the intelligence Bush* got was indisputable.

[AntiCoup2K4]

74. Clinton tried in 1996

The Repuke Congress blocked him, calling his measures "too intrusive". And they didn't go a fraction of as far as the so called "Patriot" act :grr:

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

213. Remember, it was Congressman John Ashcroft who opposed Clinton's measures

And apparently, the wiretap laws that Clinton wanted to pass were tame compared to the "Patriot" Act.

[Flubadubya]

76. The Republican Congress (during Clinton's term) failed us...

I don't have the ready reference links, but if you would do a little investigation, you will find that the Clinton administration made very serious efforts to clamp down on terrorist activity, only to have it all thrown back into their faces by the Rethugs in Congress crying "wag the dog"!

Nope, Clinton knew exactly what we were up against, but got absolutely NO support whatsoever from the RETHUGS in Congress.

[Star]

88. Here's the article...

President wants Senate to hurry with new anti-terrorism laws
July 30, 1996
Web posted at: 8:40 p.m. EDT
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Clinton urged Congress Tuesday to act swiftly in developing anti-terrorism legislation before its August recess.

"We need to keep this country together right now. We need to focus on this terrorism issue," Clinton said during a White House news conference.

But while the president pushed for quick legislation, Republican lawmakers hardened their stance against some of the proposed anti-terrorism measures.


Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, R-Mississippi, doubted that the Senate would rush to action before they recess this weekend. The Senate needs to study all the options, he said, and trying to get it done in the next three days would be tough.

One key GOP senator was more critical, calling a proposed study of chemical markers in explosives "a phony issue."

snip

Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, emerged from the meeting and said, "These are very controversial provisions that the White House wants. Some they're not going to get."

Hatch called Clinton's proposed study of taggants -- chemical markers in explosives that could help track terrorists -- "a phony issue."

"If they want to, they can study the thing" already, Hatch asserted. He also said he had some problems with the president's proposals to expand wiretapping.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/index.html

Seems the repukes only take terrorism seriously when its a repuke pRes who asks them to.

[Cooley Hurd]

100. Thanks, Star...

Not to mention the government resource drain (FBI, DOJ) when the repugs hounded the Clintons about Whitewater, Paula Jones (this article was from 1996, before the Lewinsky scandal), etc. Too bad the FBI agents assigned to staking out the Big Dog's hang-down could've been staking out the Phoenix flight school, instead. :(

Kick for the thread - lots of good info here!!!

[Judi Lynn]

197. Thank you, Star!

That article is priceless. Plan to save it for posterity. (It really brings back the tone of the times, a vivid reminder of just how nasty, how surly those Congressional Republicans were to Bill Clinton throughout his time in the White House.)

Hatch and Lott, in retrospect, seem even more evil than they did then, if possible.

[Star]

226. You're welcome

I found that article over a year ago, and have had it saved ever since.

During the "impeachment", I wrote to every repuke congressperson and told them that as far as I could see, either there was important work that wasn't getting done, or there wasn't enough work for all of them and we needed to fire them all and save the country a ton of money.

After I found this article, I knew what work wasn't getting done. It makes my blood boil whenever I hear a freeper claim that Clinton did "nothing" to fight terrorism. It was the incompetent repuke-controlled house and senate who spent all their time vilifying Clinton and not taking care of business that allowed 9-11 to happen.

[LiberalFighter]

90. Clinton admin officials briefed Bush during transition

Clinton admin also had a plan ready to initiate that was passed to Bush. But they ignored it!!!

[roguevalley]

144. Re Clinton: Get Al Franken's book "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell

Them" and you will never try and implicate Clinton again.

[Ladyhawk]

153. That book and David Brock's book opened my eyes a bit.

I thought all those scandals were real. Only the Monica scandal was real. I still don't condone what Clinton did, but on this side of the equation, he looks like a decent president. I used to hate him, but now I want him back. At least America was SANE, then.

[many a good man]

171. I stand corrected, maybe

I plan to read Franken's book after I'm finished with "Clinton Wars."

Star's citations to the Anti-terrorist Act is much more focused on OK City-type terrorist threats. I'm curious as to the other provisions proposed in the bill, especially regarding airlines. Plans about using planes as missiles came out in the late '90s...somebody should have done something focusing on airlines. Do you know if anything about airline safety was proposed in this bill?

[mrdmk]

215. check this out

Many things were tried in the Clinton administration. Remember Contract with America. That was Newt Gingrich. Of Ken Starr was making more headlines than it deserved. He is another eye opener.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/flight.risk/stories/part1.mainbar.html

Al Gore did a commission starting in 1996, and the airline industry did not want to deal with these security issues.

Now we have the Patriot Act 1 (which is over the top) and Patriot Act 2 which being added piece by piece. The reason to add the Patriot Act 2 piece by piece is to hide and make it more difficult to undo. These people are ruthless.

[many a good man]

229. I spoke too soon! This from Blumenthal

The Clinton Wars, p.482;

The President argued for wider democracy, economic programs of reconstruction to end the conditions of "despair and alienation" in which terrorism thrives, and diplomacy to end ethnic strife. He called for greater airport security and international police cooperation to break up terrorist networks. (In the United States, strict airport security measures had been proposed by the presidential commision, charired by Vice President Gore, set up after the crash of TWA Flight 800 in 1996, but these had mostly been blocked by the airline industry and the Republican Congress.)


Taken together with ignoring the Hart-Rudman report, the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the entire Republican party! Their manic partisanship and corporate cronyism has put in danger the lives of thousands. They must be held accountable.

The Republican party is not fit to govern. This has to be exposed so the moderate Republicans can drive out of power their lunatic leaders WHO ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY!

[alcuno]

30. Can someone explain this sentence for me?

"There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed. They simply failed," Kean said.


I think he's saying that people should have been fired, but he seems to change tense and the sentence has less coherence than I'd like. Is he saying they should have been fired or that they shouldn't have been in those positions in the first place.

[Qutzupalotl]

I think he's saying he would have fired them.

But it is worded strangely.

[alcuno]

43. Thanks. I often wonder why politicians can't get a clear quote down.

Maybe he can work on his sentence structure.

[maggrwaggr]

63. WE should have fired ALL of them!

The American people should have kicked these idiots out on their ear a long time ago.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

196. WE never HIRED them to begin with!

This is what happens when you let the guy who finished in second place win the election!

[Systematic Chaos]

36. Yes, he's saying that they should have been fired.

[pinto]

98. good catch, w/change in tense he may mean both n/t

[karlschneider]

109. It was a little confused.....here's the quote (is it accurate? I dunno)

"There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed. They simply failed," Kean said.

------------------------------------------------------

I am thinking he meant if he were "in charge" (as president, or Secy of State...?) either he would not have allowed those people to be in the positions they held at the time, or possibly the ubiquitous hindsight we all have. But beyond the circumlocution in his comment, it's clear he believes (and obviously with good reason) that Chimpy's faux administration failed. The degree to which will be determined as (or not) this information is grasped by the several millions of us Amerikans who seem unable to think.
:eyes:

[Fleshdancer]

112. That's my take on it...

That if he were President, he would have hired a more competant staff. So what did Condaleeza's resume look like before she landed her current job? I honestly can't remember her background.

[mrdmk]

210. C. Rice Phd

The Soviet Union. Was a Dean at Stanford. Inside word from Academia, "Condaleeza Rice is to be feared.” Another words, if you had a problem with Rice your job was in jeopardy.

[Qutzupalotl]

214. Rice also worked for Chevron

as a VP or sat on the board...can't recall which. She even had a Chevron oil tanker named after her: The Condoleeza (since renamed).

[goforit]

236. Just like Poppy named his ship after Barbara. Hmmmm............

Could Condi be having an affair with.........?

[a_random_joel]

31. Anyone got a Freeper account?

I would LOVE to see their reactions.

[alcuno]

34. Just go look.

I refuse to provide a link to freerepublic.com

[Cush]

38. i looked

couldn't find anything.....

[alcuno]

41. I looked and they appear not to have noticed yet.

They also have a riotous poll going. "If Hillary runs against Bush, who would you vote for?" What a clever question for over there.

[Jax]

33. Oh my!

Is this why they 'found' Saddam now??? These people are beyond reprehensible. Nail them to the wall of the shithouse for good.

Jax

[neverforget]

37. Don't worry though. We captured the man responsible: Saddam.

<biting sarcasm> :eyes: I can't wait to hear the spin on this one. This going to be really good!

[Logansquare]

40. Checked google news, and so far only CBS has this

It broke 35 mins. ago, though. I will be interested to see who picks it up tomorrow.

[stinkeefresh]

45. wow. when they caught Saddamta Claus I really thought

this was going to be an unbearable news week. But this is the greatest thing ever. I still can't believe he said those things...

there is a God, and s/he's still not a fascist.

[arcane1]

47. this should be emailed, ASAP, to everyone you know!

because you can be ASSURED that something will take this from the front page..

and I HOPE they put Clinton on the stand. Time for the record to speaek for itself, and put the email chain-letters to rest once and for all!

[Cush]

49. Video online here

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/eveningnews/main589137.shtml

click on "Free Video", on the left hand side

[Qutzupalotl]

50. Okay, now that I've caught my breath...

and picked up my jaw off the floor, I can read the article with a clearer head.

Kean isn't saying (out loud) that he thinks Bush Knew and planned the whole thing to get oil. He's just saying it's an intelligence failure of massive proportions. BUT he is calling for public hearings, which is the last thing this administration wants. And I do think someone knew...like the FBI official who prevented the search of Moussaoui's laptop, then got a promotion...:wtf: Start the questioning with him.

I don't buy into a lot of the conspiracies around 9/11. Some seem designed to prey on the gullible and discredit all legitimate inquiry into this. I'll never believe that someone disappeared a whole plane, then fired a missile at the Pentagon, for instance. (Why?) But mainstream scrutiny of foreknowledge questions is a VERY welcome development. There are too many strange, unexplained events around this story.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org

[Stephanie]

51. Can they force Bush* to testify????

God I would LOVE to see that!!!!

Kean promises major revelations in public testimony beginning next month from top officials in the FBI, CIA, Defense Department, National Security Agency and, maybe, President Bush and former President Clinton.

[Qutzupalotl]

55. Yes, I think they can.

Subpoena his ass.

[reprobate]

164. They forced clinton to testify in court, didn't they?

Oh, but then Captain Codpiece is special, isn't he?

[Tuttle]

52. People may want to save this page...

go to the CBS news site and choose FILE > SAVE AS... and choose WEBPAGE COMPLETE.

This will save a local copy (on your computer) that can be reconstructed - you know how these things have a way of disappearing!

Tut-tut

[kainah]

136. also this page from nj.com

5 hours after this story broke, the only other place that has this story is the New Jersey Star-Ledger. Also save this article:

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/firstglance/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1071713439221040.xml

[Sugarbleus]

154. Thanks Tuttle for the "how to"...got it!

[killbotfactory]

53. Good ol' George "Stonewall" Bush

Wonder why he's playing hard to get with documents?

I hope the fit hits the shan.

[pmbryant]

54. I wouldn't get our hopes up too much

He may be setting up to pin this completely on the CIA/FBI and let the White House officials off the hook.

We'll see next month...

:shrug:

--Peter

[ProfessorGAC]

181. Think The CIA/FBI Will Sit Still For That?

I think it's pretty obvious that the CIA is already pretty angry over attempts to leave it on their doorstep. I have a hard time believing they will sit still and let the blame fall on them.

The administration had the intel briefings. They knew the threat. The CIA and the FBI are at their command. So, if they did nothing, it's because they weren't ordered to take action.

That's all they have to say. Then it's not their fault. The whitewash might try it, but i don't see those two organizations just taking those punches without hitting back.
The Professor

[pmbryant]

190. You're right

But it could be enough to confuse the general public about who is truly guilty.

--Peter

[ProfessorGAC]

193. As Long As. . .

. . .the CIA and FBI don't get revenge by dropping a dime.
The Professor

[mrdmk]

218. I would rethink the notion

CIA FU! This is an amusing story with more truth in it that the Weekly Standard.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00073.htm

If you think these people are going to sit around and do nothing is shortsighted. There are many people of honor and integrity. Even before the Iraq war, there were people from the State Department quitting their jobs.

[Junkdrawer]

56. Remember this clip from his Monday press conference?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=918713

Perhaps this was what Dean was "musing" about...

[Cooley Hurd]

59. Ahhh... so THAT'S why Dean and Clark have been bringing up...

...9/11! I had a feeling 9/11 would become a campaign issue. And to think the GOP chose The Scene of the Crime as the site for their convention...

Will all of this make the sheeple say, "Saddam who?"

[SpiralHawk]

163. "The criminal always returns to the scene of the crime"

- Dick Tracy, or someone a lot like him.

[goforit]

237. 10 to 1......these thugs will change the site of their convention.

These idiots just may not be able to swallow their own
creation.

[Upfront]

58. Kean

Mr Kean just may be an honest republican. I hope he stays off small aircraft.

[screembloodymurder]

84. Yes, and tall buildings.

This guy has balls.

[Oreegone]

60. Strange how History repeats itself

Notice how Thomas Kean and John Dean rhyme?

[imhotep]

62. I was wondering when the next "tide is turning"

hysteria on DU would be triggered.
Expect the same results as the last 10.

[burrowowl]

64. Hope this has legs

but anytime the maladminstration is implicated in anything, it disappears.

[shawn703]

66. Will Kean do for 9/11 what Walsh did for Iran/Contra? n/t

[Cooley Hurd]

67. Here's a nice dissertation of the stonewalling by Bush/Cheney

http://www.bushoccupation.com/welcolumn.html

[Catherine Vincent]

69. Uh, why are they including Clinton?

[Robbien]

75. He is not blameless here

This problem did not start in 2000 and if they are going after the top position responsible, the people holding the top positions need to be investigated. I take it as a good sign that Bush will not be skipped.

[Cooley Hurd]

188. Clinton did more than Bush did in regards to terrorism...

An example... CNN - President wants Senate to hurry with new anti-terrorism laws - July 30, 1996

[wabeewoman]

99. Probably to show that Clinton

thought it was very important. I can remember how bush was poo pooing ANYTHING and everything that Clinton had done and trying to be the anti-Clinton. I would bet money that they refused to act on this because Clinton's administration told them it was important. If they bring in Clinton to testify it will be obvious that he was on top of it and bush is the one who dropped the ball.

[Mick Knox]

70. Um.. was there any doubt it was preventable?

Any number of If's could have prevented it...

If bin laden's declaration of war and previous attacks had been taken seriously.

If we had killed him during previous attempts

If Our FBI was doing their job instead of sitting on their buts

If our CIA was doing their job instead of sitting on their buts

If our airlines did not allow terrorist on airplanes carrying boxcutters or other dangerous items

If our immigration dept did their jobs.

If if if if if if if...

It should have NEVER happened. period..

But we slept on Dec 6 1941
and we slept on Sept 10 2001

and we'll be asleep again soon............................ maybe permanently.

Ifiifififififififififififififiif
----------------------------------

On a side note: I smell a set up here.. I would wait til we see "page 2 of the rest of the story" .. lest people be suckered once again.

[Oilwellian]

116. You don't get it

The FBI & CIA were doing their job and warning Bush of an imminent threat against this country and he did NOTHING. Also, Clinton took Bin Laden VERY seriously, particularly after the embassy bombings. If you did your homework, you'd know he became obsessed with capturing Bin Laden after that bombing. It's BUSH who dropped ALL of the efforts Clinton made to find him. Kean is correct, 911 could have been prevented if Bush did his goddamned job and took action after receiving MANY warnings.

[bobbyboucher]

119. Exactly,

obviously an apologist in the prior post, grabbing at straws.

[TheWebHead]

71. Kean may have to adopt a fear of flying

that would rival John Madden now...

[Cush]

72. ah, if you can stomach it

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1042455/posts

They're implying that it's a conspiracy by the 'Liberal Media'

[bspence]

167. The liberal media? It's a REPUBLICAN making the charge!! nt

[gate of the sun]

77. good news

and it's about time...Hopefully this will go somewhere and not be lost or forgotten tomorrow.

[shawn703]

79. Maybe it's a trap?

Anybody want to bet this thing is to get Democrats to say this is proof of the 9/11 commission being fair and bipartisan - then they come up with some final answers saying all of these people who "failed" were put in place by Clinton (and of course, Bush didn't have time to replace them yet because he was dealing with an "obstructionist Senate" that wouldn't confirm his appointees.)

Sorry, I just tend to be a little suspicious when a Republican appears to be supplying ammunition to the Democrats. We need to make sure it won't blow up in our faces.

[54anickel]

80. Ya-hoo! This is great. I called my brother that day, had a gut feeling

he might be in NY area (he travels a lot and I get weird intuitions a lot).
He said that in hind sight, they must have known something big was up, they searched his stuff getting OFF the plane the night before in Boston.

He was staying in that same hotel in Boston that they sealed off and searched the next day, was the one the "terrorist" guys stayed in.

It was a very spooky feeling at the time.

[54anickel]

81. Will Shrub now claim "There is a vast left-wing conspiracy"?

[Logansquare]

82. "We predicted it" --Salon 9/12/2001

"Hart says he spent 90 minutes with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and an hour with Secretary of State Colin Powell lobbying for the White House to devote more attention to the imminent dangers of terrorism and their specific, detailed recommendations for a major change in the way the federal government approaches terrorism. He and Rudman briefed National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice on the commission's findings."

http://dir.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/09/12/bush/index.html

[gulliver]

83. I think I'll wait for Bob Kerrey or Max Cleland to say something.

Republican Kean did not look unhappy in that video. And I saw nothing in it to indicate that he was "pointing fingers at the Bush administration" as the video link teaser says.

The Rice and Breitweiser footage was interesting, but it may have been included to support the correspondents potential misinterpretation of what Kean is really saying. I think he might be getting ready to blame it on Clinton appointees and hires.

[mediaman007]

97. Ted Kennedy knew something last Fall...

Just before he got his award from Poppa Bush, he was very outspoken about pResident Bush* meeting in Texas. I can't remember, but didn't Ted accuse the administration of letting the terrorists take a shot at us?

The White House never really denied Kennedy's assertions. Instead the White House accused Kennedy of making undignified comments. Kennedy may have a separate source for his accusations. Combined with today's story, the Bush* team may not have to worry about re-election...they may have to worry about being nominated!

[goforit]

238. Kennedy?.....I wish he would work harder investigating the murder of

his brothers. He may find something very intriguing.

[Catfish]

108. Maybe I'm a pessimist

but I think you may be right.

[number6]

85. damn near LIHOP

..

[goforit]

239. Why not frog march it all the way to mihop.

one just leads to the other.

[htuttle]

87. I bet Bush develops another facial boil over this

I also expect to see a lot more of James Baker in the near future...

[fishnfla]

95. We're seeing him right enough now

blast from the past huh?

[0007]

89. This one will not go away soundlessly, you can bet your booties on this.

This is real folks. And ya better believe James A. Baker III and Theodore B. Olson, the 42nd Solicitor General of the United States, will be talking like porky pigs to convice folks to let this one slide.

The fan is running and the shit has just been produced.

[pinto]

92. DUers, please forward as you can. Sad and true. n/t

[young_at_heart]

93. Will ALL the media report this?

This is pretty big news......one would think it would be all over the place. Is it?

[pinto]

94. eventually.....n/t

[scarface2004]

96. bush s presidency is now being measured...

in hours!!

fricking ahole!!!

[Corgigal]

102. About time

All they needed to do is pull NORAD's tapes and the ATC tapes of the surrounding airports. Then measure the response that day next to every other day known to man and you will have your answer.

Good. I've been waiting and I knew the day it happened that our response was BS.

[Fleshdancer]

104. Enjoy your RNC convention in NYC assholes. (n/t)

[Cooley Hurd]

106. That's the kicker - having their convention at the scene of the crime!

Fort Apache - Madison Square Garden. :bounce:

[Fleshdancer]

111. Do you think they'll go through with it?

Is it too late for them to pull out of NYC for the convention? I thought the protests were going to get rough before this story...I'm scared how bad it's going to get now.

Of course, the protestors will have every right to let their voice be heard, but I definately fear for their safety.

[Stephanie]

115. They better go through with it - my sign is ready to go

SHAME.

[aeon flux]

105. Kean is known as a RINO.

he is referred to as such in freeperland. Such flattery!

[bspence]

168. um, what's a RINO? nt

[DemonFighterLives]

172. Republican In Name Only

I'm on the edge of my seat on this issue. I've had problems with some of the abbreviations myself, so glad I could help in this instance.
I knew something was fishy about 9/11, to say the least.

[bobbyboucher]

107. Duck and cover!

I am now officially nervous.

[Catherine Vincent]

110. I've been reading a lot of the messages on FR

from the link that Cush posted and a lot of them are basically blaming Clinton because he was in office 8 years prior to *. What a bunch of dumb fucks! Were airplanes used as missles and plowed thru buildings when Clinton was in office? No! Bush* was! The puppet and his staff got warnings from the Clinton administration but the warnings went on deaf ears. NOTHING WAS DONE!

Can't those dumb freeps see this?!?!

[Triana]

113. Uh...guys, they *will* blame Clinton for this...

...shrub is teflon - he can do ANYTHING and get away with it. He *has already* hasn't he? He's a Republican. Now, if this happened on Clinton's watch, Clinton would have been lynched over it the next day. But as you well know, the same rules do not apply to Rethugs...

[JohnyCanuck]

118. Shrub could shit on a plate

and the freepers would eat it up and call it filet mignon.

[truthspeaker]

183. nope

they'd call it "freedom steak".

[Individualist]

121. My dream is to see shrub behind bars

along with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Asscroft, etc. for LIHOP. But you're right, Triana. This is "the buck stops anywhere but here, blame anybody but us" administration. With mediawhores supporting everything this vile administration says, what chance do we have of justice being done? I hate being a pessimist, but in light of everything this vile administration has gotten away with, I can't help being a realist.

[lfairban]

135. I used to think the same thing of Nixon.

If they do it by the numbers, they can take him down.

Believe it or not, there are some things that even Republicans will not tolerate.

[Triana]

170. i hope you're right ifairban...

...but considering all the crime this fascist cabal has gotten away with thus far, I have trouble suppressing my pessimism.

Like another DU'er said - shrub could shit on a plate and the media and other Rethugs would swallow it whole and call it filet mignon (not the DUers exact words, and sorry for mangling the quote but you get the picture).

Let a Dem do any of what king shrub does and (s)he'd be verily crucified in .0003 milliseconds.

[lfairban]

145. Parrot talk.

Some people claim that there's a Clinton to blame,
but we know, it's all B*'s fault.

[leesa]

122. Oh please, please let this be the end of the Crime Family.

[Cush]

124. More from Kean:

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/firstglance/index.ssf?/base/news-0/1071713439221040.xml

"I don't expect to have any new friends after this is done," said Kean. "And after this, some old friends may not be friendly any more."

[Robbien]

125. He's talking about friends. He is missing the important point.

Losing friends is not the issue. Making enemies is definitely the issue.

[Catherine Vincent]

133. Hmm, that's a quirky statement.

"I don't expect to have any new friends after this is done,"

You would think he would have new friends (as in Democrats) because he thinks heads should roll in the Bush administration.

"And after this, some old friends may not be friendly any more."

Could he be talking about republicans or Democrats?

[0007]

157. Where? I waded around and couldn't find anything!

[Stephanie]

204. Excerpt

http://www.nj.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news-12/1071730403292160.xml?starledger?ntop


"I don't expect to have any new friends after this is done," said Kean. "And after this, some old friends may not be friendly any more."

Al Felzenberg, a spokesman for the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, said the panel has not reached full conclusions and has much work to do. But he said Kean has been involved in interviewing some witnesses and reviewing thousands of documents.

"It is fair to say that the governor's preliminary conclusions are that things didn't function as they should have." He noted, for example, that the public testimony documented serious lapses in the nation's air defense system in response to the hijackings of the jetliners that slammed into the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon.

If the story doesn't show up at the link, just select Star Ledger from the first search box and Kean in the second.

[Qutzupalotl]

220. from the same newspaper

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-12/1071730403292160.xml
(Links might not work--I had to register, then browse headlines for this.)

The commission is still culling through thousands of documents. In recent months, it has subpoenaed documents from some agencies that were hindering its probe, and after months of negotiations recently worked out an agreement with the White House to see several years worth of highly classified daily intelligence briefings given to Presidents Clinton and Bush.

Good for them. I heard they had been threatening to use subpoenas, so this is welcome news. Let's hope they keep it up. I don't know if those PDBs include the PDB, though.

[lucky777]

127. It's the lead piece on Drudge....

Let's hope this story gets out widely and that the repubs start attacking each other -- it's cleaner that way.

First question: what happened to the black boxes, the voice recorders, the video tapes in the airports?

The best thing about this: Now my friends won't keep thinking that I am crazy.

[Hailtothechimp]

128. All these hours later and MSNBC et al are still gaga over Saddam.

Amazing. I defy anyone to tell me there is a liberal media if this blows over. Lets hope Dean has the balls to follow up on this. None of these other candidates will. I hope Bob Graham will speak out on this too.

[Beam Me Up]

129. LIMITED HANG OUT

This is 'good news' in the sense that it brings this subject back into the collective, media driven consciousness of our otherwise brain dead society. However, I'll point out up front that I don't get too excited about these 'revelations' because they are based on-- and further perpetrate--the conspiracy theory advocated by our government: that the events of 9/11 were caused by Muslim terrorists.

I want to make it quite clear that I DO NOT BELIEVE, given the evidence, the "Muslim terrorist" theory is credible. I do not believe that a Boing 757 hit the Pentagon on 9/11 (See: http://physics911.org/net/modules/news/print.php?storyid=3 AND http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/pentagon/index.html ). Moreover, I do not believe that "fire from jet fuel" (essentially kerosine) was responsible for the collapses of buildings 1 and 2 of the World Trade Center. Nor do I believe that building 7 collapsed at 3:30 in the afternoon as the result of damage by "fire." Steel, concrete and glass structures do not "collapse" as a result of fire, PERIOD. The only thing that can cause buildings to implode and collapse straight downward is explosives--and accurately placed and timed explosives at that (See: http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/towers/index.html AND http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/b7/index.html ).

I do not claim to know what happened on 9/11 but I am certain that what the government has been telling us did NOT happen. For the events of 9/11 to have been caused by "Muslim terrorists" they would not only have had to have had access to high levels of our military command structure in NORAD, they would have had to have planted demolition devices in buildings 1, 2 and 7 of the WTC AND been able to crash either an F-16 or a winged (drone) missile into the Pentagon. I do not believe "Muslim terrorists" have any such capacity.

THEREFORE, hearing that the "attacks" were "preventable" is what those of us who study such things call a "limited hang out." That is, it is a "revelation" which, rather than actually revealing the truth of a matter, reveals some part of it while simultaneously deflecting attention away from the most serious, and usually damning, questions and issues.

BMU

ON EDIT: Typo

[PaDUer]

140. *

brother had access to the buildings.

[lfairban]

142. To a large degree, you are correct about the fire.

I saw a documentary on this.

What brought the towers down was a sequence of events, all of which were necessary to cause the collapse.

First, when the planes hit, they knocked the fireproofing off a lot of the structural members, otherwise the heat from the fire would not have been sufficient to make them buckle.

Second, the jet fuel fire itself would not have done it either even if there was no fireproofing on the structural members. It only burned for ten minutes or so, but it did light everything flammable in the office spaces on fire. There is a tremendous amount of paperwork, furniture, carpet and whatever else. That is what created enough heat to make the steel members warp, and pull lose. After that, there was nothing to hold the building together.

I buy it, but I can understand if you don't.

By the way, check out my 911 links:
http://home.columbus.rr.com/lfairban/Pages/Liberal.htm#911

[Beam Me Up]

148. Steel I beams

do not 'warp' from burning debris and kerosine -- I don't care HOW LONG you let it burn or HOW MANY TONS of Office Max crap you pile on. You need sustained temperatures approaching 2,500 degrees F -- white hot -- to soften steel. You can not get that high a temperature from an ordinary fire. To reach that temperature a fire has to be 'force fed' both fuel and oxygen in the right mix continuiously. An acetylene torch will do it and so will an explosive device.

If a kerosine and 'furniture' fire can bring down a steel and reinforced concrete building, why don't demolition teams use that method instead of explosives? The answer is obvious. Millions of people work in high-rise steel and reinforced concrete buildings every day. How many of them would do so if they thought an office fire on a lower floor could cause the ENTIRE BUILDING to implode? It doesn't happen. It never will happen. It didn't happen on 9/11, either.

[lfairban]

150. If that were true . . .

. . . then why would they go to all the expense to spray fireproofing all over them?

They don't have to melt, just warp enough to pull the bolts on the ends of the lateral members. Remember, that fire lasted quite a long time, several hours I think. About five stories were involved, more or less, that would be fifty feet, enough to create a very strong air movement.

It is not really practical for demolishing buildings. You would create too much pollution for one thing. Also, by the time they demo buildings, they remove all the paperwork, carpet and furniture.

I can understand your skepticism, but this is what they said in the documentary.

[Beam Me Up]

207. "9/11 WAS NOT AN INTELLIGENCE FAILURE . . .

. . . 9/11 Was an Intelligence Success" (Mike Ruppert) http://fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/121703_911_preventable.html

This is what no one wants to understand because the consequences of understanding it are too great to bare. Extreme right wing factions within the government and military of the United States of America--in conjunction with corporate interests including media--not only allowed but created the conditions within which the events of 9/11 could occur. Most everything that has happened since--the passage of the Patriot act, the wars in Afganistan and Iraq, the hundreds of billions of dollars allocated to defense and so forth--are all precisely what was wanted and intended.

Do you really believe you're going to see a documentary on broadcast television which purports to explain these events in this way? Of course you will not. The fact is the structure of the twin towers was DESIGNED to withstand precisely this kind of disaster. By the time the NYC firemen reached the areas of impact the fires were almost out and they were beginning to turn their attention to how to rescue those on the floors above. No one knows for certain but it is highly likely that the 26th floor of building 7 was used as the command post for the destruction of the two towers--thus the need to destroy any evidence and thus the need to collapse that 56 story building as well (at 5:30 pm, not 3:30 as I posted above). All you have to do is look at the many videos of that collapse (follow the link in my post above) and see for yourself. That building was demolished PERIOD. No airplanes struck that building. It was not struck by large falling debris.

On many many levels (not just physical evidence) the government/media explanation of the events of 9/11 DOES NOT MATCH THE EVIDENCE. The only rational conclusion one can draw is that THEY ARE LYING and getting away with it by sweeping the evidence under the rug of "National Security". We deserve a REAL investigation. The only reason we're getting the wimpy one we have is because of the pressure put on the government by the victim families. Moreover, the only reason they are now trotting out this 'intelligence failure', plan B, limited hangout explanation is because so MANY people question the official explanation of events. VOW TO NEVER FORGET! Don't let them get away with it! Demand full disclosure and a full explanation of ALL the events.

[0007]

177. Has a demo ever been attempted using the same construction,

as the WTC and creating an impact like 911. I can buy into both theories. I have my own mixed feelings with many questions.

Theories can be manipulated is a very subtle way to convice ignorant people of the science that we're talking about here.

I've worked as an electrican and HVAC technician all my life and know the difference between the engineer that sits in an office and the man that works in the field. I've done both!

[Rose Siding]

131. This is stronger than anything Cleland had to say

I just can't figure out why he left the commission instead of having a piece of this fight.

[Catherine Vincent]

138. That's what worries me.

This Kean guy is a republican. NEVER TRUST A FUCKING REPUBLICAN!

[burythehatchet]

147. I bet that's going to be a really juicy revelation

to be on the threshold of impeaching an entire administration...and to leave that?

[shance]

231. Cleland also wont touch the fact that electronic voting

probably affected the outcome of his election.

Get the feeling he doesnt like to confront the important stuff.

[kainah]

132. The hearings better play out

At midnight eastern time, this article exists in exactly two places: CBS and nj.com. That's it. This isn't being covered.

The whole thing will come down to the hearings. If he can back up what he's saying -- and we know he CAN, but WILL he? -- then I don't think the press can totally ignore it. But I have an eerie feeling about this. If he can't/won't/doesn't deliver, they'll use that as a permanent reason to turn away.

Incidentally, the story about Sen. Bill Nelson's revelations on the extent of the threat explicitly told the senators before the vote last year is also not being picked up.

Write the media outlets & push BOTH these stories!!

[aeon flux]

134. Check this out

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Former President Bill Clinton says he warned President George W. Bush before he left office in 2001 that Osama bin Laden was the biggest security threat the United States faced.

Speaking at a luncheon sponsored by the History Channel on Wednesday, Clinton said he discussed security issues with Bush in his "exit interview," a formal and often candid meeting between a sitting president and the president-elect.


"In his campaign, Bush had said he thought the biggest security issue was Iraq and a national missile defence," Clinton said. "I told him that in my opinion, the biggest security problem was Osama bin Laden."


http://www.talkleft.com/archives/004625.html


Accurate? from what I unerstand, Bush has never disputed this assertion. What did they do about it? Apparently, nothing.

[Catherine Vincent]

139. Yes, I think that's accurate.

I remember when Clinton was interviewed after the attacks, he said his first thought was "Bin Laden did this". Clinton and his administraton knew what Bin Laden was capable of and warned the incoming Bush clowns and they did NOTHING.

[Robbien]

137. Putting this here because Newsmax is not going to get

a link in LBN from me, if you go there you will see a story posted a coupled of minutes ago entitled

9/11 Commission Set to Blame Bush, Clinton Gets a Pass

The chairman of the independent commission investigating the 9/11 attacks is hinting that he's prepared to place blame at the doorstep of the Bush White House for not acting on evidence that could have prevented the catastrophe.

But commission chairman, former New Jersey Gov. Thomas Kean, has yet to examine key evidence indicating that President Clinton knew Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America, but failed to take appropriate action to stop him as the 9/11 operation was being organized.

"<9/11> was not something that had to happen," Kean told CBS News on Wednesday, adding that officials in the Bush administration had failed to protect America.

"There are people that, if I was doing the job, would certainly not be in the position they were in at that time because they failed. They simply failed," the top 9/11 prober said.

the rest is a Clinton bash and a Bush pass. Typical Newsmax.

[Catherine Vincent]

141. LOL! That is hilarious!

Newsmax never cease to amaze me!

[Gemini Cat]

143. Wow!! This is big!

This must be kept in front of the American public. This can't die!

:dem:

[gauguin57]

152. "Mrs. Bush ... Mrs. Cheney ...?"

"Ladies, President Hastert is calling from Air Force One. He's arranged for you to both fly over to the Netherlands for conjugal visits with your husbands in their adjoining cells in The Hague."

"I beg your pardon, Mrs. Cheney ... you say you're divorcing Dick and marrying Dennis Kucinich!?!?"

I didn't need this report to tell me the Bush Administration is in this up to their ape-like eyebrows!!!

[ronatchig]

160. Personally I knew the fix was in when

they reportedly "found" Atta's passport in the rubble within about 6 hrs of the collapse, and had for all intents and purposes solved the crime. Within days they had put out the story of Atta meeting an Iraqi official.
What I found amazing is that this was accepted as true. What a crock of crap. I mean you have an explosion and fire intense enough to destroy this monolith and a paper passport survives. I would rather believe that Captain Picard beamed the passport to the site thru a time/space anomaly to finger the guy.

Ps a bick kick for the morning crowd

[laylah]

155. Yes Virginia,

there IS a Santa Claus :bounce: We can only hope and pray that these morally deficient freaks will finally be exposed!

jenn

[Nlighten1]

156. Bush shot the "capturing Saddam" wad prematurely.

He should have waited until this was made public.

[Catherine Vincent]

179. Well now we know why they "captured" Saddam over the weekend.

To offset this 9/11 announcement. And with hardly any mention yet, it seems like it worked.

[joanski01]

158. WOW! My 7:00 a.m. radio news

(ABC) led with this story. Loud and clear. Kean said 9/11 could have been prevented. Details will come out.

[laylah]

159. Yessssssssss!!!! n/t

[OldEurope]

161. I really hope Mr.Kean is not going to commit

suicide as so many people do this at Christmas time.

:scared:

[LeftHander]

162. "Major Revelations" promised!!

THis is going to be it. Once people really catch wind of the truth that BUSH KNEW and let it happen then we will see the first administration to do the perp walk while still in office.

[Corgigal]

165. Possibly the CIA Spooks

talked after all. Bush/Rove should have known better to out the ambassadors wife. If I were CIA and offended on what he did, this would be my way to add lots of heat to the fire.

[ellie]

166. I just e-mailed the Today Show

Their lead story? Michael Jackson MAY be charged with child molestation. And next up, an interview with Kobe Bryant's accuser's ex-boyfriend.

SHAME!

[Wetzelbill]

169. this better not fade out

[Catherine Vincent]

176. Well, it's not a lead story today.

How about that liberal media?

[Corgigal]

178. 9:37 am

I caught CNN finally reporting this story.

[0007]

182. The freeper are insane ballistically!

Imagine Henry Kissinger staying on before being replaced by Thomas Kean?

You can bet Henry baby will have plenty to say about this one! And the whore networks? What ya can, that hasn't been said? We all know how they'll treat this news. Much like NewsMax, 'eh?

[phillybri]

186. Kick for a HUGE story....

:kick:

[HuckleB]

187. The big, bad liberal press sure is ignoring this story.

It's hard to find it anywhere. Unbelievable.

[0007]

191. 'Tis getting legs, it is only twelve hours old - google and find more.

You can bet junior has a tough case of excessive & frequent trips to the bathroom discharging a watery feces, usually indicating gastrointestinal distress known as diarrhea.

Probably even yelling vulgarities at smiling Laura, who hasn't the sighlest idea of what's going on!

[Zero Gravitas]

189. LIHTI

They Let It Happen through Incompetnce. No surprise really as this Administration has shown total and utter incompetence in every arena other than lining the pockets of its campaign contributors with other people's money.

[frank frankly]

192. how the fuck is this not in the NYTimes or WashingtonPost?

the media is the greatest obstacle to the truth

[Qutzupalotl]

211. Well, it was on the CBS Evening News last night.

That's something. Quite a large viewership, compared to cable news. (Don't know about newspaper circulation, though.)

But I share your frustration. I think once the public hearings begin, this will be all over the news. And it sounds like it's not an IF, but a WHEN.

[janx]

195. This could just be more criticism of the FBI and CIA.

I hope it won't just lead to more recycled garbage.

[bpilgrim]

201. SCAPEGOATS: Adm. Husband E. Kimmel and Gen. Walter C. Short

``Justice cries out for this,'' said historian Michael Gannon, who believes Kimmel and Short were scapegoats, blindsided by officials in Washington who failed to relay critical information before the Japanese attack.

In the aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and the heightened state of alert imposed upon Americans, the president ``might not be in the mood right now to exonerate people alleged not to have been alert,'' Gannon said in an interview.

In 2000, Congress put language into a defense bill urging the president to restore both officers to the highest rank they held during World War II.

The two officers were removed from their commands after the attack, declared to be in dereliction of duty for not preparing Pearl Harbor and forced to retire.

more...
http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Bush_skipping_PH.htm

peace

[Cooley Hurd]

198. NY Daily News: Could have foiled 9/11, Kean says

Elaboration on WH reaction to story...

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/147141p-129811c.html

<snip>
Kean vowed major revelations next month when his committee starts hearing public testimony from top officials - possibly even President Bush and former President Bill Clinton.

A commission spokesman insisted Kean isn't trying to finger anyone in either administration - yet.

"We are going to have some disturbing conclusions," spokesman Alvin Felzenberg said. The White House refused last night to comment directly on the CBS interview. "The President wants to learn everything possible about what happened," said deputy spokeswoman Claire Buchan.

The commission already has skirmished with the Bush administration over briefings the White House resisted handing over. A compromise will allow selected members to see most of the documents.
</snip>

There's also a quote from 9/11 commission activist Stephen Push, "I realized that (the attacks could've been prevented) two years ago."

So did we...

[young_at_heart]

199. How many newspapers or TV news channels have this?

This is pretty big news but from what I see it's being ignored....why?

[Cooley Hurd]

200. Faux News/NY Post: 9/11 Probe Head Says Attack Was Preventable

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,106086,00.html

<snip>
Kean didn't name names but it has previously been reported that the Bush administration received intelligence warnings that provided hints about Usama bin Laden's intentions before Sept. 11.
</snip>

Wow... Faux & the NY Post are reporting on it now!

[Cooley Hurd]

202. Staten Is Advance: 9/11 panel might hold government officials accountable

http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?/base/news/1071762454223260.xml

<snip>
"I think they could have been prevented, because there were a lot of red flags," said William Doyle of Annadale, whose son, Joseph, was killed at the World Trade Center.

Doyle cited as one example of such warnings the May 2001 "Phoenix memo," in which a FBI agent in Arizona urged an immediate investigation of Middle Eastern men with links to terrorist groups who were taking flying lessons at U.S. aviation schools.

"It was sent to FBI headquarters in New York and just sat there on somebody's desk," said Doyle.
</snip>

I highly doubt a memo composed by star anti-terrorism expert Kenneth Williams would've been ignored by his superiors. My bet is that it was included in the Aug 6th briefing - that's why they're fighting its release tooth and nail...

[Logansquare]

205. I think that's a good hunch n/t

.

[jokerman93]

208. Don't move toward the light...

It's a trick!

Yeah. Now I've gradually moved toward a belief in the LIHOP scenario. I don't think they knew the precise details such as when and where. But our boys in the WH flew the coop for a month. They must have figured that was a reasonable enough window to avoid getting creamed.

But that's not the point of this for me. It seems to me that this commission was thrown together to come up with an alibi (sp?).

What would prevent Kean and others from scapegoating
"anyone but Bush"? This is going to be taken as the final word on 9/11 it better be frigging concrete, cogent, and actionable. So I'm waiting on the these revelations before I start drinking hooch, putting lamp shades on my head and firing my Ak-47 into the air.

This seems as nicely timed as all the other seemingly engineered events that have taken place since 9/11. Yeah. I don't wear my tinfoil very often, but I keep it handy these days.

[0007]

221. Maybe what y'need is a good fight with a few truck drivers!

[stickdog]

219. Why were all of these failures rewarded?

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Failure is Success.

Don't know about the L or M, but there's no doubt about IHOP anymore.

[WheresWaldo]

222. googling Kean 9-11 brought this up:

New Chairman of 9/11 Commission had business ties with Osama's Brother in Law
by Michel Chossudovsky
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO212A.html

I'm not really sure what to make of the information. Thought I'd put it out there.

Can this be verified?

and if so, does it necessarily imply he might compromise his investigation?

[0007]

224. So what does this have to do with his findings in the 911 investigation?

If Mr. Kean had ties with the Carlyle Group or Halliburton I'd say this would be a big find.

I do find this interesting: "Worst of all, bin Mahfouz allegedly has been financing the bin Laden terrorist network -- making Bush a U.S. citizen who has done business with those who finance and support terrorists. According to USA Today, bin Mahfouz and other Saudis attempted to transfer $ 3 million to various bin Laden front operations in Saudi Arabia in 1999.

When President Bush announced he is hot on the trail of the money used over the years to finance terrorism, he must realize that trail ultimately leads not only to Saudi Arabia, but to some of the same financiers who originally helped propel him into the oil business and later the White House. The ties between bin Laden and the White House may be much closer than he is willing to acknowledge. "

This is indeed an interesting find.

[Catherine Vincent]

225. As I said earlier,

NEVER TRUST A FVCKING REPUBLICAN!

[paulthompson]

230. Yes, it can be verified

Fortune magazine, of all places, was the only mainstream source to run a story on it (here's the whole thing, since it's so short):

Five Degrees of Osama

by Nicholas Stein
Fortune Magazine
January 22, 2003
http://www.fortune.com/fortune/print/0,15935,410237,00.html


In December, President Bush named Thomas Kean, the former Republican governor of New Jersey, chairman of an independent commission examining the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. But FORTUNE has learned that Kean appears to have a bizarre link to the very terror network he's investigating--al Qaeda.

Here's how the dots connect: Kean is a director of petroleum giant Amerada Hess, which in 1998 formed a joint venture--known as Delta Hess--with Delta Oil, a Saudi Arabian company, to develop oil fields in Azerbaijan. One of Delta's backers is Khalid bin Mahfouz, a shadowy Saudi patriarch married to one of Osama bin Laden's sisters. Mahfouz, who is suspected of funding charities linked to al Qaeda, is even named as a defendant in a lawsuit filed by families of Sept. 11 victims. True, Hess is hardly the only company to cross paths with Mahfouz: He has shown up in dealings with, among others, ultra-secretive investment firm Carlyle Group and BCCI, the lender toppled by fraud in 1992.

Kean, who was unavailable for comment, may not have been aware of the Mahfouz connection. But Hess spokesman Carl Tursi did reveal another interesting coincidence: Three weeks before Kean's appointment, Hess severed its ties with Delta.

---

What does it mean? It means some directions will not be pursued because they lead in disturbing directions. Bin Mahfouz was a major player in BCCI, owning 20% of it. He was an early backer of Bush Jr., rescuing him from bankruptcy when Bush Sr. was president. Putting Kean in charge of the commission ensures that the ties between Bush and rich Saudis who supported bin Laden will not be investigated.

The good news? Apparently Michael Moore is all over these types of connections and will be looking into them in his next movie, Farenheit 911.

Don't expect much from the Independent Commission. Their purpose is to paint 9/11 as incompetence, maybe get a few people fired, so the real story of US foreknowledge will be covered up. Kean's recent comments are entirely consistent with that.

[0007]

234. Thank you for clearing up the connection,

now my hopes are shattered. I thought we were being freeped by #222.

[WheresWaldo]

241. Post # 222's

WheresWaldo aint no Freeper. Just a guy who doesnt jump to conclusions.

[grannylib]

228. Over in freeperville they are of course already screaming that it was all

Clinton's fault.

[revcarol]

233. Weaseling backtracking has BEGUN, before the program even airs.

See separate thread about Clinton,Bush not responsible, this forum, new interview for Nightline "clarifying" what he said yesterday.

He's NOT one of the men in white hats. His hat was stepped on by the administration and he was told to toe the line.

[WheresWaldo]

242. Thread Link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=276419

[young_at_heart]

240. This important story seems to have vanished

Maybe I just imagined the whole thing?