Milosevic 'knew Srebrenica plan' - transcript released

[robbedvoter]

Milosevic 'knew Srebrenica plan'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/3331047.stm



Wesley Clark spent more than 100 hours in talks with Mr Milosevic

Former Nato commander Wesley Clark has said the former Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic knew a massacre in Srebrenica was being planned.

The United Nations war crimes tribunal in The Hague heard that Mr Milosevic had told him he warned Bosnian Serb General Ratko Mladic not to do it.

A transcript of Mr Clark's closed-door evidence was published on Thursday.

Mr Milosevic, facing 66 counts of war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide, said Mr Clark was lying.

Now a US presidential candidate, the retired general directed Nato's bombing campaign against Serbia in 1999.

Mr Clark was a member of the US team that helped negotiate the 1995 peace agreement ending the Bosnian war.

Questions

More than 7,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys were killed by Bosnian Serb troops in Srebrenica in 1995 before the peace deal.

Prosecution spokeswoman Florence Hartmann said Mr Clark's testimony was "extremely important" as it was the most direct evidence so far of Mr Milosevic's advance knowledge in the massacre. More...

[grannylib]

1. And Chickenhawk Shrub had to keep this off TV to keep Clark from

letting the American people see what a real military hero/leader is like...would have been quite the contrast...

[westman]

2. It took three years

for the World Court to produce this?

[Devils Advocate NZ]

3. Clark lies through his teeth, doesn't he?

He is claiming that the KLA were NOT a terrorist organisation yet he KNOWS that not only were they a terrorist organisation but that they were connected to Osama Bin Laden!

Take for example this document from 1998:

The bin Ladin network supports terrorists in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Chechnya, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen, and now Kosovo. It also trains members of terrorist networks from such diverse countries as the Philippines, Algeria and Eritrea.
http://usembassy-australia.state.gov/hyper/WF980824/epf112.htm

Also, consider this article from USA Today:

Bin Laden is believed to have established an Albanian operation in 1994 after telling the government he headed a wealthy Saudi humanitarian agency wanting to help Albania, the newspaper reported.

Klosi said he believed terrorists had already infiltrated other parts of Europe from bases in Albania. Interpol believes more than 100,000 blank Albanian passports were stolen in riots last year, providing ample opportunity for terrorists to acquire false papers, the newspaper said.

Apparent confirmation of Bin Laden's activities came earlier this month during the murder trial of Claude Kader, 27, a French national who said he was a member of Bin Laden's Albanian network, the newspaper said.

Kader claimed during the trial he had visited Albania to recruit and arm fighters for Kosovo.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/bomb162.htm

And to show you just how much of a lie Clark is telling, consider this:

Perhaps most telling about the minds of those who trained here is a document found at the camp. "I am interested in suicide operations," wrote Damir Bajrami, a 24-year-old ethnic Albanian from Kosovo, on his entry application in April 2001. "I have Kosovo Liberation Army combat experience against Serb and American forces. I need no further training. I recommend (suicide) operations against (amusement) parks like Disney."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2001/11/26/cover.htm

This is refering to a document found at an "Al Qaeda" training camp in Afghanistan. And yes, you read that right! An Albanian from Kosovo applied to join "Al Qaeda" and wrote of his experience in the KLA fighting against the Serbs and Americans!

This is the SAME KLA that Clark bombed the Serbs for trying to fight! This same man, who was once fighting Serbs, went on to fight US troops who occupied Kosovo, and then tried to join "Al Qaeda"!

But of course, as Clark said, the KLA aren't terrorists! Well at least they weren't when he was bombing Serbian civillians for them!

Now I can see where Shelton got his "integrity" issues from, after all a man willing to lie under oath at a war crimes trial doesn't have much integrity in my books.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

4. I Trust Clark Light Years More Than Serbian Apologists (eom)

DTH

[Aidoneus]

9. That very formidably addressed the points being made

Thanks.. :eyes:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

10. Any Time

DA_NZ's reputation for this is quite well-known around these parts, after all; I hadn't know about yours, however.

:eyes:

DTH

[imhotep]

11. The Clinton State department

classified the KLA as terrorists within the bin laden network.

Keep living in denial...

[Devils Advocate NZ]

13. The US Government and USA Today are Serbian apologists?

After all, that is where the information comes from.

You have to wonder about the sanity of people who trust a man who supported the Republicans UNTIL he decided to run for President.

It also strikes me as amazing that the same people who believe that the media lied (and is lying) about Iraq, believe the same media didn't lie about Kosovo.

The gullibility is astounding.

[Spazito]

5. Shelton is the man with integrity issues!

Frag Officer
Hugh Shelton smears Wes Clark.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2089014

And to say that someone belonging to the KLA tried to join the Al Qaeda therefore the whole organization is a terrorist group is like saying someone belonging to the Canadian Liberal Party tried to join Al Qaeda therefore the whole Liberal Party is a terrorist group, geez!

Edited to correct missing letters, grammer, etc.

[robbedvoter]

6. Let's hear what your beloved Milosevic says (nice guy!):

http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/031215ED.htm


A. We achieved agreement and then it remained to type up the

25 agreement and get it signed, and so this must have been 10.30, 11:00 in



Page 30396

1 the morning or something, and President Milosevic was musing

2 philosophically about this. And he turned to me and said, "General

3 Clark," he said, "We know how to handle these murderers, these rapists,

4 these criminals." He said, "We've done this before." I said, "Well,

5 when?" He said, "In Drenica in 1946." And I said, "What did you do?" He

6 said, "We killed them." He said, "We killed them all."

7 I was stunned at the vehemence with which he spoke, and I just

8 looked at him. General Naumann looked at him, as I recall, and Milosevic

9 then said -- then he qualified his statement. He said, "Of course we did

10 not do it all at one. It took some time."

[Devils Advocate NZ]

14. No, that is waht the unidicted war criminal Clark claims was said.

Of course this is the same man who said the KLA wasn't a terrorist organisation, even though his own government and the United Nations said they were terrorists even BEFORE the war in Kosovo.

Clark is a terrorist supporting perjurer, not to mention a Republican plant, and believing a word he says only marks you as being extremely gullible.

[robbedvoter]

7. Does Slobodan have you pst this on every thread? The guy saying this:

http://www.un.org/icty/transe54/031215ED.htm


A. We achieved agreement and then it remained to type up the

25 agreement and get it signed, and so this must have been 10.30, 11:00 in



Page 30396

1 the morning or something, and President Milosevic was musing

2 philosophically about this. And he turned to me and said, "General

3 Clark," he said, "We know how to handle these murderers, these rapists,

4 these criminals." He said, "We've done this before." I said, "Well,

5 when?" He said, "In Drenica in 1946." And I said, "What did you do?" He

6 said, "We killed them." He said, "We killed them all."

7 I was stunned at the vehemence with which he spoke, and I just

8 looked at him. General Naumann looked at him, as I recall, and Milosevic

9 then said -- then he qualified his statement. He said, "Of course we did

10 not do it all at one. It took some time."

[Devils Advocate NZ]

15. And what exactly are Americans saying about terrorists?

"Let's give them a medal"?

If you bothered to find out what Milosevic is talking about, you would know that he is refering to the aftermath of the Second World War where Albanian Nazis - yes, those Albanians who joined the Nazis to round up Jews and Gypsys and exterminate them - were hunted down after the war.

Of course only America is allowed to kill terrorists and murderers eh?

The hypocrisy is astounding.

But of course, you only believe what the lying US media tells you, so perhaps if I refer to a US media source you might be a little more open to reality:

Sejdiu said the new party, known in Albanian as Partia e Bashkimit Demokratik (PBD), is a coalition made up of KLA regional commanders and political leaders, as well as leaders of an underground Kosovar political party, the Popular Movement of Kosovo (Levizja Popullore e Kosoves, or LPK). The LPK was formed in 1982, modeled on the Irish Republican Army. Sejdiu became leader of an LPK cell in 1991.

The LPK evolved out of a party called the LPRK (Popular Movement for the Republic of Kosova) founded in 1979 as a Marxist-Leninist youth group and supported by the Communist government of Albanian dictator Enver Hoxha. In 1991, when the Communists fell in Albania, Kosovo's underground LPK movement shed its Marxist associations, but retained its core IRA-type belief that for Kosovo to achieve independence from Serbia it could not rule out violence.

Despite its roots in Marxism-Leninism, "Many people who command the KLA have spent years living in exile in the West," and have no desire to live in a communist system, said Sejdiu.

Hoping to calm Western fears that the KLA wants a "Greater Albania" that would seek to unite Kosovo with Albania and western Macedonia, Sejdiu said: "We know we can't achieve independence for Kosovo right now, or unite all of the Albanian lands. It's not realistic right now."

The KLA's ambivalence toward pursuing its former dream of a Greater Albania has been tempered by the experiences of some 500,000 Kosovo Albanians deported by Serbian forces to Albania over the past three months. Many Kosovo Albanian deportees -- even those who fled massacres and burning villages in Kosovo -- were clearly shocked at the poverty, lawlessness and backwardness of Albania, and it apparently made some of them less optimistic about the prospect of a Greater Albania. "Even under the oppression of the Serbs," Sejdiu said, "we Kosovo Albanians did not self-destruct as much as the Albanians under Hoxha. Even though Kosovo Albanians and Albanians feel like brothers, in reality we have separate political cultures."
salon.com | July 7, 1999
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/07/07/kosovo/print.html

Igonoring the obvious propaganda for a moment, notice where the history of the KLA lies: in a seperatist moevment that wished to expel Serbs from Kosovo - a provice of Serbia - and amalgamate it with Albania to become Greater Albania. Sound familiar? Also notice that an early manifestation of these terrorists formed in 1982 and modelled themselves on the IRA was not formed because of so called "Serbian Repression" but was formed long BEFORE the Serbs controlled Serbia - in fact before there even WAS a seperate Serbia, and in a time when a Croat actually ran Yugoslavia.

Also notice that from the very beginning this organisation would not rule out VIOLENCE to obtain independence, and this all happened a DECADE before the Serbs supposedly began a genocidal campaign that managed to kill less people in a year than the US killed in Iraq in three weeks.

I bet you don't know that the president who began the US involvement in Kosovo and Yuogslavia in general was George Bush Snr! Of course a BUSH can be trusted not to be getting up to dirty tricks - such as arming and assisting a terrorist organisation to overthrow a legitimate government - could he?

Americans are such suckers. Put it on the "news" and they fall for it - hook, line and sinker.

[leetrisck]

8. So I guess all general's have

integrity problems? Powell, Swartzkopf, Eisenhower, Franks, Shelton, etc?

[Myra]

12. Phew, Clark did a helluva dead by testifying

Thank god there are a few people, very few, with such courage.

Guess BushCo can't block every word of testimony.
How awful for them.

[happyslug]

16. Still No Evidence of a War Crime by Milosevic

then said 'Well, General Clark... I warned Mladic not to do this, but he didn't listen to me.'"

Look at this statement, yes, it indicates Milosevic had foreknowledge of the massacre, but than he said he had tried to stop it. Remember Milosevic was in SERBIA while the war was in neighboring Bosnia. Milosevic did not have DIRECT control over Mladic (Milosevic did have some control i.e. Milosevic was suppling Mladic's Army, but NO direct Control).

The issue is than could Milosevic have STOPPED the Massacre? Nothing that Clark's says indicates that even Clark believed Milosevic could have stopped the Massacre, the only person who could have stopped the Massacre was Mladic. Does this make Milosevic liable for the Massacre? Even the French Commander of the UN forces in Sebrebica knew the Massacre was coming (and he tried to stop it) but given that he knew the massacre was coming make the French Commander guilty of a War Crime? The answer is No, the same rationale has to be applied to Milosevic, mere foreknowledge is NOT ENOUGH to make someone guilty of a War Crime.

The real issue is simply "was Milosevic in a position to PREVENT the massacre"? If yes, and he let it occur Milosevic is guilty of a war crime, if, on the other hand, Milosevic knew it was to occur, but there was nothing he could do to prevent it, Milosevic did NOT commit a war crime.

I see Nothing it what is being reported as to General Clark's Testimony that shows anything than Milosevic had foreknowledge of the Massacre and Milosevic tried to stop it. That is NOT a war crime. You need something more than FOREKNOWLEDGE to be guilty of a War Crime.

Please Note I am going on what CLARK said, not Milosevic's denial of what happened at Sebrebica. I still do not see a WAR CRIME in Milosevic's actions in regard to Sebrebica.

[Tinoire]

17. Mladic? Clark's good friend Mladic?

Hmmm I Milocewicz should have known, then why didn't Clark? After all, Clark is the one who was allegedly fighting terrorism.


The picture shows General Clark trading hats with his pal, Bosnian Serb Gen. Ratko Mladic, now an indicted war criminal and fugitive from justice. Have a look at the expression on the face of the British officer to Clark's left.

Clark accepted as gifts Mladic's hat, a bottle of brandy, and a pistol inscribed in Cyrillic, U.S. officials said. 'It's like cavorting with Hermann Goering,' one U.S. official complained."


Clark, center, shares a happy moment and hat trading photo op with Serb mass murdered and wanted for war crimes, Gen. Ratko Mladic (to Clark's right). They shared wine and other gifts. Wanted by the U.N. and NATO, Mladic is still at large.

U.S. diplomats warned Clark not to go to Bosnian Serb military headquarters to meet Mladic, considered by U.S. intelligence as the mastermind of the Srebrenica massacre of Muslim civilians (and still at large, sought by NATO peacekeeping forces). Besides the exchange of hats, they drank wine together, and Mladic gave Clark a bottle of brandy and a pistol.

This was what U.S. Ambassador Richard Holbrooke's team seeking peace in Yugoslavia tried to avoid by instituting the "Clark Rule": whenever the general is found talking alone to a Serb, Croat or Muslim, make sure an American civilian official rushes to his side. It produced some comic opera dashes by diplomats.

After Clark's meeting with Mladic, the State Department cabled embassies throughout Europe that there was no change in policy toward the Bosnian Serbs. The incident cost Victor Jackovich his job as U.S. ambassador to Bosnia, even though he protested Clark's course. The upshot came months later, when Serbian dictator Slobodan Milosevic, in bitter negotiations with Holbrooke, handed Clark back his Army hat. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/printrn20030922.shtml

Definitely not the best company to be associated with if you want the job as leader of the free world...

=====
Clark has slipped up before. During talks to end the Bosnian war he met Serb General Ratko Mladic, a man whose hands are stained with the blood of many innocents. But Clark and Mladic got along fine (perhaps they had to) and swapped caps and posed for pictures. Clark even accepted a bottle of plum brandy and an engraved pistol from the murderer. It triggered a huge press furore. Such a public relations disaster could kill Clark as a viable candidate. And there is no doubt that the rocky terrain of an American election is every bit as treacherous as a Balkan civil war.

From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1047378,00.html

[Dirk39]

18. Pettiness and Petulance

"It is a fact of life at The Hague that while the accused are denied contact with the media, the accusers get all the press time in the world. Showing a propensity for grandstanding akin to a certain carrier landing, Clark addressed the press in front of the Tribunal's compound, using the occasion to solicit political points for his presidential campaign and bad-mouth Milosevic.

Speaking to the press, Clark described Milosevic as "argumentative and stubborn" (AP, AFP) and even "petulant" (AFP, BBC). He also implied Milosevic had foreknowledge of alleged atrocities, and expressed pleasure he could testify against "the man I believe was responsible for so much of the slaughter and victims in the Balkans."

Believe? So what!? Plenty of people believe one thing or another. Does Clark actually know anything – aside from his own role in Balkans bloodshed, that is? Probably not, but no one bothered to ask. Just as no one remarked that it was rather petty of Clark to disparage someone who is prevented from answering the insults."
http://www.antiwar.com/malic/m-col.html

Hello from Germany,
Dirk