LAT: Iran linked to seizure of F-14s in Chino

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-ex-f14-7mar08,0,3204162.story?coll=la-home-headlines

The trail that led to the seizure of four Tomcat fighters in San Bernardino County had stops in Bakersfield and Hollywood, but the starting point was Iran, which still uses F-14s in its active fleet.

On Tuesday, federal agents seized the four jets after investigators determined that the craft were not demilitarized and were improperly sold or transferred to private parties, including museums and the producer of the TV show "JAG," authorities said.

When the jets were retired in the mid-1990s at the Naval Air Station at Point Mugu, Navy officials failed to ensure that the aircraft were stripped of military hardware, according to a court affidavit filed by a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent.

The affidavit paints a broad picture of the investigation that has at its heart Iran's need for military supplies for its aircraft, a need difficult to fill.

Though the United States and Iran are now cautious foes, sparring over the Islamic Republic's nuclear program, the U.S. in the 1960s and 1970s was a principal supplier of arms to the Shah of Iran. Among the weapons supplied by the U.S. were F-14 Tomcats as well as missile systems.

[Zhade]

1. Prove it, you fucking liars.

NT!

[rusty_parts2001]

2. Much ado about nothing IMHO.

[ShockediSay]

3. It works for me. They got nothin' but F 14s and no spare parts.

I think we've suffered far worse at the hands of Israel, our 'so-called ally,' from Pollard to AIPAC and whatever else in between

[GainesT1958]

4. If we were stupid enough...

To go to war with Iran, this is one thing that concerns me. They would be the first nation with whom we've gone to war that has one of our own still-important aircraft as part of its air arsenal. And believe me, their pilots are well-trained in the art of flying those jets. I believe there are some other weapons--tanks, perhaps?--that they have of ours from the days of the Shah. Even though our weapons systems have advanced greatly since then, the Tomcat is still an important carrier-based plane for us.

Yet another reason why attacking Iran is at the very least stupid and at the most, insane.

B-)

[happyslug]

5. The question is HOW updated are those Iranian F-14s?

The US has NOT shipped any parts since at least the Iran-Contra Scandal of the mid-1980s, but on the other hand the Russian has the Mig-23s and 27s which are also swept wing jets. There is NOTHING to prevent retrofitting Russian Radars from the Migs to the F-14s. Today's Russian Fighter Radars, while not up to current US standards, are better than what was in the F-14s in the mid-1980s. Thus I would NOT be surprised if the electronic kit of the Iranian F-14s are now almost 100% Russian, down to the Missiles the F-14s can fire. Any decently trained Electrical engineer could do the retrofit as long as there is enough room in the Plane (and the F-14s has enough room, which is why the Navy kept it till recently).

Now, harder to repair are the structural parts of the F-14s. These would have to be customized made to fit onto the F-14. With the US F-14s this was NOT much of a problem for the same maker for the original F-14 can also make the Parts. With Iran these original manufacturers can NOT be accessed, thus some sort of customizing making of parts would be needed (Probably in Russia, but I can NOT rule out Iran itself). You could strip some F-14s to keep others flying, but Russia has the ability to make parts for its own planes, so it may be able to make most if not all of the spare parts for the Iranian F-14s (But at much higher prices for lower quality than US made parts).

Given this I would NOT be surprised if Iran is trying to get parts for their F-14s, but structural parts more than electronics. Furthermore given that the Russians are set up to produce their own fighters it may be more cost effective to buy new Russian Fighters than to upgrade the F-14s. In fact it might be better to rely on Anti-air Defenses systems than on Fighters (This includes training ground personnel on how to engage low flying Airplanes, in addition to buying AA missiles and Guns).

While NO country has gone on the Offensive without Air Superiority since the middle years of WWI (With the possible exception of North Vietnam in 1975 when it attacked and took South Vietnam, but while the South Vietnamese had "Air Superiority" it was only nominal for without US support it was ineffective). Iran is NOT planning any OFFENSIVE moves, its actions appear defensive in Nature. In Defense, the lack of Air Superiority is less important for you accept the other side having air superiority and move when you can not when you want to (This is what the Serbs did, where the US Air Superiority was minimized by dispersing of Serbs Forces). Unless some sort of Ground attack forces the defense to concentrate its forces (Which is what the Kosovan forces did when its land forces started to attack Serb position toward the end of the Air war with Serbia) the defense just needs to keep its forces dispersed, covered and Concealed and wait out the Air Assault (And fire what air Defense it has against the Air Attack).

Thus the Iranians, In my opinion, do NOT need there F-14s for the upcoming war, in many ways to fly them would just give the US targets (Which Bush will use as justification for his attacks on Iran). The better option is to sit back and rely on AA defense, take the hits from the US and complain to the world (and do what you can do to end oil exports from the Persian Gulf).

[MGD]

6. Updated enough to launch a Sunburn I would wager.

"Iran is NOT planning any OFFENSIVE moves"
That's an assumption that is not entirely supported.

"Thus the Iranians, In my opinion, do NOT need there F-14s for the upcoming war, in many ways to fly them would just give the US targets"
Unless they were to use them to get an anti-shipping missile within range of a carrier. Sinking one or more of our main battle ships will be high on their list of things to do should war break out between us. My guess is, they would sacrifice their entire inventory of F-14s to sink a carrier and they would try to do it within moments of the US initiating hostilities.

"In Defense, the lack of Air Superiority is less important for you"
Air superiority has proved to be pretty decisive over the past several decades. As you mentioned, it was less effective in Vietnam than in other conflicts; however, Iran will not have the luxury of dense triple canopy foliage to conceal their movements. Their movements will be highly exposed and; thus, vulnerable to air attack.

"the better option is to sit back and rely on AA defense, take the hits from the US and complain to the world"
This is a plan for defeat. It is unsound. It may end up being the best they have though.

[hack89]

11. No ..

First, the F14 was never designed to carry a missile as large as a Sunburn.

Secondly, there is absolutely no evidence that Iran has Sunburns. It seems to be internet myth that can be traced back to a rumor that Ukraine sold 8 Sunburns to Iran in 1992.

[Xithras]

7. You're close. The Iranians hired Russians.

There have been quite a few write-ups over the past decade on Iran and the Tomcat fleet. After the fall of the Soviet Union, a lot of talented aircraft engineers found themselves unemployed. Iran scooped many of these up, and put them to work upgrading their fleet and fabricating replacement parts. You're dead on accurate about the F-14's being equipped with Russian electronics, including the latest fire and forget computer systems.

There are some parts, like canopies, that are incredibly hard to duplicate and have to be purchased off the black market, but the Iranians are 95% self-sufficient with their fleet.

The majority of the Iranian air force IS Russian in origin today. There are only 10-15 combat ready Tomcats in the country, but there are hundreds of other jets in their inventory. Most of these are MiG 27's, 29's 31's, SU-27's, etc. The Iranians do try to keep the Tomcats operational, but they are far from the heart of their fleet.

In a way, we got a little lucky that Ahmadinejad has such a big mouth. Apparently China was fully prepared to sell Iran the J-10 until Ahmadinejad opened his mouth and pissed off the planet. If Iran had a fleet of J-10's defending it, they'd be an extremely formidable foe. Even without the J-10 they're far more advanced (relatively speaking) than any foe we've faced since fighting the Chinese over Korea.

[Giant Robot]

8. While I don't disagree with the intent of your post

The F-14 is not an important aircraft in the US fleet anymore. It was recently retired from service with the Navy flying the F/A-18 off carriers solely these days. While I am sure there are plenty of F-14's hanging out in the desert waiting for an emergency to be called back into action, that does not mean it is a front line fighter anymore for us.

[Javaman]

9. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what Iran did with these...

Any government that gets it's hands on any other nations tech or new tech, the first thing they do is take it apart and see how it works.

then they improve upon it. Without a doubt they shared this info with the Russians who in turn supplied them with newer versions of the same aircraft with updated tech.

Who gives a shit about spare parts. They don't.

This type of "stealing" has been going on for years.

Read up sometime about the equipment we sent to Russia during WWII was copied and updated by them.

Russia hated our takes but loved our rifling. The took the turret from the sherman and plopped it on their T-34 for a while until their own factories caught up.

they hated our sightings but made one of their own to fit theirs.

The list goes on and on. To think that the Iranians would use one of our aircraft out of the box, is just plain ignorance.

[EFerrari]

10. Iran is selling F 14s to HOLLYWOOD?

:rofl:

[Eugene]

12. AP: House to push ban on F-14 parts sale

House to push ban on F-14 parts sale
Arizona Freshman Starts House Effort to Stop Sale of
Surplus F-14 Parts to Iran

By SHARON THEIMER

WASHINGTON Mar 8, 2007 (AP)— An effort to bar the Pentagon from selling surplus parts
for the F-14 fighter jet a plane now flown only by Iran will be introduced in the House.

An Arizona Democrat said Thursday she will make it her first proposal as a congresswoman.

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, a member of the House Armed Services Committee, called her bill
"a commonsense piece of legislation."

-snip-

Giffords' Tucson-based district includes one of the military's biggest retirement homes
for aircraft. She planned to introduce legislation Friday similar to a Senate bill that
would permanently ban the Defense Department from selling surplus F-14 parts.

-snip-

Full article: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2935794