For first time since Vietnam, riverboats deploy for Iraq (Swift Boats)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-sou--navyriverines0308mar08,0,6705691.story?coll=dp-headlines-virginia

A riverboat squadron departed Thursday for Iraq, the first deployment of Navy swift boats to a war zone since Vietnam.

About 100 members of the Riverine Squadron 1 will integrate with Marines patrolling the Tigris and Euphrates rivers, eventually replacing the Marine force. They will patrol those waters to combat terrorist operations.

"The missions, the formations, tactics, techniques and procedures are pretty much the same as they were 35 years ago," Cmdr. Bill Guarini said.

After Vietnam, internal waterways operations largely became a function of the Marines and of Naval special warfare units. One year ago, however, the Navy announced it was adding "brown water" warfare to its traditional "bluewater" role.

During Vietnam, the Navy patrolled the Mekong River delta with 500 swift boats.

[jaysunb]

1. They'll be the " latest " targets...

count on it . :evilfrown:

[saigon68]

4. A "Field Day" for RPGs

Smoke em if you got em

[TomInTib]

9. Don't even talk like that...

I spent 39 months on PBRs and Nasty Boats.

I am shaking, I am so fucked up on this.

Good God, who is doing the thinking at DoD?

Didn't they learn anything?

Damn

Tom

[saigon68]

14. Sorry didn't mean to upset you

Just stating the obvious

AND

Who is doing the thinking at DOD?

Good question---Obviously a group who is taking some kind of illegal drug

[TomInTib]

17. They are crazy...

You might have missed my JFK post...

I recently met a Navy IRR pilot. Been to both Afgh and Iraq.

And he told me that he had a number of friends (Navy and Marine combat pilots, A10, F14, F16s, etc.) who had been called to Ft Lewis for a 2-week course in driving convoy trucks. The fools at DoD thought that they wouldn't have as much problems if the drivers were a little bit quicker.

These are the same kind of bastards that barely let some of us survive.

And I am pissed off.

You cannot run those boats against current armament.

Those guys are fucked unless they just pick the fat part of the river.

And there ain't anything happening there.

[LanternWaste]

32. But they're not using the same design, are they?

But they're not using the same design, are they?

I figure there's GOT to have been some design development since then-- armor more resistant to RPG's, much smaller silhouettes... something.

I can't really believe that the DoD would start patrolling the Tigris and Euphrates using 40 year old tactics and 25 year old boats.

Although, I'm the first to say that I'm a bit naive when it comes to intentions.

[jaysunb]

15. No, Bro...they haven't learned a thing.....

That was what my post was intended to imply.

personal experience : Phu Loi 65/66.....7thsurge/MASH

Rivers are perfect for ducks. :sarcasm:

[Barrett808]

24. Also, new targets for IEDs / EFPs

Hidden in reeds and underwater.

Nice.

[Monkeyman]

2. Dam we found the swift boat veterans

[ck4829]

3. We might as well name the war "Vietnam II"

[saigon68]

8. Iraq-Nam works for me

Remember March 2003 when some of us here predicted this outcome

[TomInTib]

5. Oh, f**k, man, you just took me back almost 40 years...

"The missions, the formations, tactics, techniques and procedures are pretty much the same as they were 35 years ago,"

Well, then, we are even more than fucked.

I am on the verge of tears.

[DURHAM D]

13. Hey Tom - sorry you are upset.

Talk to us. Are these boats more dangerous because the personnel is more exposed? I don't know much about this sort of thing.

[TomInTib]

18. If they are anywhere near the same boats, we are f***ed....

RPGs will waste them.

And the pilots are totally inexperienced.

That work is tough business.

Just scares me to death to think of these kids...

[Barrett808]

25. "Rock and rollers with one foot in the grave."

If I remember Captain Willard correctly.

[babylonsister]

6. Coast Guard is next. Then we're plum out of fodder.

So call me cynical.

[napi21]

7. Oh God, I hate to hear about this. I've really tried to NOT compare this

disaster in Iraq with Vietnam, even thoughboth were lost battles before they even began, but hearing thismakes it impossible to do that anymore. I wonder who decided to send this squadron? Was it Petreus, Gates, who? Please tell me it wasn't Shrub!!!!!!

[Chipper Chat]

10. Has John O'Neill signed up for service yet?

Or does he just have another box of bandaids for Kerry?

[karynnj]

30. I'm for sending O'Neil too - after all he didn't seem to hav too bad a time in VN

In fact, in 1971, on one of the Cavitt shows, Kerry tried to explain that the mission that O'Neil was on a year after Kerry left was night and day from the nightmare Kerry faced. O'Neil simply ignored him - it was very clear he had no intention of listening.

[IndianaGreen]

11. Will our sailors be able to tell the difference between smugglers and terrorists?

Smuggling is a way of life over there, and it would not be very popular for the US to cramp that style.

[babylonsister]

12. Recommend for more eyes to see. This could affect many people who

thought they were 'safe'. :(

[ddeclue]

16. I was wondering what was taking so long...

I think they will probably use something more like the PBR's from later in the Vietnam War rather than the Swift boats. The PBR's were more manueverable and could get into shallower places.

And they tell us that this war is nothing like Vietnam... right...

Next thing you know they'll be calling Lt. Kerry back to duty...isn't this war just chocked full with irony?

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[Gregorian]

19. I've forgotten who the terrorists are. Oh, the irony.

If only Americans could see the truth. The world must be waiting with mouths gaping. Who's the terrorists? We's the terrorists. Bad Yankees.

[arewenotdemo]

29. The CIC of the terrorists shows up annually

for the SOTU speech.

[CGowen]

20. GOODBYE MY DARLIN' HELLO VIETNAM

...
A ship is waitin' at the dock,
America has trouble to be stopped.
We must stop Communism in that land,
or freedom will start slippin' through our hand.
...

[saigon68]

39. The more things change, the more they remain the same

[uppityperson]

21. k&r for wider viewing and for the poor kids on those boats, past and future.

[AndyTiedye]

22. They Should Send The SWIFT BOAT LIARS To Operate These New Swift Boats

They've got the experience, or at least they say they do.

[unc70]

23. Navy trained at Lejeune/Geiger

Discussed this in mid-January. Entire Navy Squadron was sent through Marine infantry course; oldest were mid 50's.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2691259

[Blue_Tires]

26. do i smell a future sequel to Apocalypse Now??

"The shit in Iraq piled up so fast you needed wings to stay above it..."

[SEABEE Chief]

27. Here are the boats

http://www.news.navy.mil/media/allhands/flash/AH200612/flash/toc.html

Above link is to an 'All Hands-Navy Magazine' December article on the so called 'New' Brown Water Navy.
The maneuverability of today's boats,has at least been improved.

And RPG's don't care. Some of these boats are RIBs, inflatables!

[Lisa]

34. inflatables! Even a landlubber like me knows that's a problem ...

And in any case, there is a whole lot of nasty stuff in the water, even if you have a sturdier vessel. In his book about his time in Iraq, Joshua Key described seeing land mines floating down the river.

[piedmont]

36. RIBs have a rigid hull just like any other boat

They have an inflatable section running along the top of the hull to give extra bouyancy if needed. If the Navy is using them for patrols, they're tough as hell and probably very difficult to sink.

[Lisa]

38. okay, thanks for clearing that up

Like I said, I don't have much experience with boats (zodiacs and canoes are about it). But will that inflatable section be much protection against explosions? I imagine that unless the boats are very heavily laden, they wouldn't have as many problems with waves slopping in over the side, like in open water -- but still. After reading Josh's account of those explosives in the river (seemingly an everyday occurrence), I'd be scared to go out on the water, even with a metal hull.

[bdamomma]

28. unbelieveable they just won't stop huh?

[Megahurtz]

35. Apparently Not.

And unfortunately no one's stopping them either. :(

[lumpy]

31. Kick

nt

[genie_weenie]

33. The Marines have been doing Riverine Ops since 2004

on the Euphrates. It sucks and they get shot at, the only benefit they have is no IEDs and/or mines.

[Rebellious Republican]

37. My niece's husband, who has been out of the Navy for a year, was

a Gunnersmate doing river patrol duty in Bahgdad for 6 months prior to his discharge. This is not new, maybe someone just noticed?
:shrug: