AP: Ga. close to OKing Bible classes

[Eugene]

Thursday, March 8, 2007 · Last updated 8:32 p.m. PT

Ga. close to OKing Bible classes

By DOUG GROSS
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

ATLANTA -- Georgia is poised to introduce two literature classes on the Bible
in public schools next year, a move some critics say would make the state the
first to take an explicit stance endorsing - and funding - biblical teachings.

The Bible already is incorporated into some classes in Georgia and other states,
but some critics say the board's move, which makes the Bible the classes' main
text, treads into dangerous turf.

On a list of classes approved Thursday by the Georgia Board of Education are
Literature and History of the Old Testament Era, and Literature and History
of the New Testament Era. The classes, approved last year by the Legislature,
will not be required, and the state's 180 school systems can decide for
themselves whether to offer them.

The school board's unanimous vote set up a 30-day public comment period,
after which it is expected to give final approval.

-snip-

Full article: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Bible_Classes.html

[daveskilt]

1. I dunno - my wife taught bible as literature courses once at UGA

of course it was literary criticism and not anything anyone would mistake for theology (it actually pissed of some fundies in Georgia)

Of course I lived in Georgia and have a good idea of how these courses would be taught there in the high schools.

[Erika]

2. Let the right wingers teach whatever

I despise any tax dollars used to force theocracy.

[sakabatou]

3. We used parts the Bible to learn

about Israelites.

[ProudDad]

4. I heard that you could learn a lot

about begetting near the beginning.

And about screwing your wife's "handmaiden" - that's in there somewhere I hear.

And genocide -- there's a lot of that.

Quite a nasty bunch of fairy tales in that book. Makes the Brothers Grimm seem tame.

[superconnected]

5. It would be nice if they taught bible history.

As in the history of the bible, not the history as the bible tells it.

I don't know how I feel about it being taught as literature though.

As long as people undertand the history and that the literature was often made up and added, I think it would be okay though.

Hopefully if they do have these bible classes, they would be object, have comparative religions with other religions, and include art history in there.

In my art history class, scene from the bible through different periods in time showed the different eras of art. Ie. when they had a large mother Mary and later a thin mother Mary. And of course the frescos around the vatican and the lithographs of the monks copying the bibles that changed through time. And the statues - beautiful david, the pieta, the withered mother Mary at the end of Michelangelos life, etc.

So much of that is relevent to western culture for our anthropological history. Instead, I kind of know it's all going to be chucked out for the fundy interpretation and of course they say utter crap like it's the absolute word of God and all is literally true.

[carla]

51. If what is meant by literature,

in this case, is the fictional nature of the texts, then I am all for it. Certainly better than teaching that drivel as factual history or as (pseudo-)science. But one can only wonder what this tax-funded ploy is meant to achieve.

[Recursion]

6. We had the bible in 2 lit classes

Both in world lit and specifically the poetry of the King James version in English lit.

Frankly any attempt to understand Western art without at least a passing knowledge of the bible is futile so I certainly hope kids would be exposed to the bible in high school.

[aquart]

7. I was taught the King James Bible as literature.

So much of western literature references the Bible that it's common sense to teach it that way.

Bible references are always handy. The rape of Dinah is one of my favorites. Then there's the Enquirer version of Sodom and Gomorrah in Judges. Go tell a seminary student that Christian civilization exists because of a woman with her ass in the air (Boaz sees Ruth gleaning. Assume the posture of gleaning.)and watch his face.

Also useful for crossword puzzles.

[marshall]

12. So many young people are ignorant of the Bible as literature

I am in my 40s and in a doctoral English program. I am amazed at how many of my classmates in their 20s do not get the bibilical parallels we read in medieval and renaissance literature. Just last week we were reading from Chaucer's Canterbury Tales and there was a reference about somebody killing a man by driving a nail in his head, which I automatically related to Jael. The rest of the class didn't have a clue, and they are really having to play catch up in their study of literature from these periods.

[mitchum]

38. When I was in graduate school I was also amazed at the number of my...

fellow students who weren't familiar with it. I'm a confirmed atheist who is well aware of its influence on subsequent western literature. I had one professor who finally just got fed up with my classmates' ignorance and exploded
"Look, I'm Jewish, so I'm only supposed to know half of it, and Mr mitchum doesn't believe a word of it, but we both have studied it because of its literary significance...and the rest of you need to get busy!"

I honestly believe those people were english majors only because they were really bad in math.

[mitchum]

36. The King James Bible is great literature because it was written by English poets...

and it is indeed filled with some wonderfully lurid tales

[no_hypocrisy]

8. If the Bible is taught as "literature", does that imply it will also be taught as

fiction? Frankly, I'd be more comfortable with this concept were the Bible to be in a series of western "literature" such as Greek, Roman, and Norwegian myths, Aesops Fables, etc. to evidence the literary value of its stories, its morality, and the lessons learned.

[marshall]

22. Literature doesn't necessarily mean fiction

That doesn't even have to be addressed, in my opinion. And anyway the current approach to teaching history is that any historical account which purports to be true is somewhat like fiction in that it only relates one person's point of view and doesn't necessarily represent reality.

[Igel]

24. When we went over Greek/Roman mythology,

the instructor never dwelt on the fact that it's fiction. You can discuss it on its merits, adopting an 'internal' PoV, and things work great.

Same for the bits of Indian folklore we had to read in my S. Asian history class. Believing Hindus had no problem, and no affront. I suspect the Qur'an would be taught the same way, rather than saying that there's no way that any of the Qur'an could really be attributed to Muhammed so the entire thing is fiction. We also covered Native American myths with respect, something that apparently has been lost in the last 30 years.

And, of course, the same holds for Old Russian literature. The Orthodox can believe what they want, the rest of us what we want.

[laylah]

9. So I assume

that in "progressive" Georgia, classes on the Quoran and Torah will also be offered? :sarcasm:

Jenn

[yardwork]

21. Will the history of paganism and Wiccan be taught?

I have no problem with the bible or other religious and spiritual texts being taught as literature or history. However, I sincerely doubt that this is the intent of this legislation, or the outcome that will occur in the public schools. Instead, I imagine that "bible stories" will be taught as fact.

[marshall]

53. Isn't that taught as Greek and Roman Mythology?

I think the first time I studied that in school was in junior high.

[Zhade]

59. I have a huge problem with something not proven to be historically accurate...

...being taught as history using my tax dollars.

[GreenZoneLT]

10. This is just vote-pandering by the Republicans

No school system is going to want to touch this. If you teach it straight, as an actual literature class, the fundie parents will go crazy. If you teach it the way the sponsors of the bill really would like, the ACLU will own you. And in neither case does it help your standardized test scores, which is all they're able to care about any more because of No Child Left Behind.

I predict exactly zero school systems will opt to offer this class.

[MGKrebs]

14. self delete

[MGKrebs]

31. In Georgia, the original bill was proposed by some Dems.

The final bill that passed was a Repub bill though.

I am torn on this one. We can't deny that Christianity has had significant effect in our history. Can we handle the information responsibly? Not sure.
I still don't understand why Dems would choose this issue, of all the things there are to work on. It's a DLC thing, so maybe that explains it.

More info:

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=104&subid=115&contentid=253750

[sarcasmo]

11. This Atheist is a little more than ticked off about Bible class.

Looks like tax dollars will be used to teach a fable.

[aquart]

16. Yes, dammit! Teach Aesop, too!

His fables are referenced constantly in western literature. We are raising a generation of depthless, ignorant twits.

[w4rma]

13. If it's done Constitutionally, it could be good. But can Georgia be trusted to do that? (nt)

[sarcasmo]

18. How can it be good? If I don't want my kid in that class won't they force him to take the

class to graduate? These bible thumpers have brought us down a slippery slope.

[piedmont]

29. Reading is fundamental...

from the OP: "The classes, approved last year by the Legislature,
will not be required..."

The classes will be electives.

[DemBones DemBones]

41. Read the OP. The courses will NOT be required and school systems

will NOT have to offer the courses. It's optional.

[Porcupine]

15. Only if parents are allowed to videotape the classes....

and monitor the tapes for religious instruction.

What the fundies in Georgia are counting on is that their brainwashed kids will shout down any kid that doesn't toe the fundamentalist line on bible interpretation.

[Javaman]

17. When do the rabbinical classes begin? nt

[Joe Bacon]

20. When are the $¢ientologi$t$ gonna bring the E-meters into schools?

Of course it will be the Tom Cruise model :evilgrin:

[NashVegas]

19. We're Getting It In Middle TN, Too

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070309/COUNTY10/703090393

Students line up for elective Bible class in Wilson
Demand enough to offer course in all 4 high schools

By NATALIA MIELCZAREK
Staff Writer

Although the first-ever Bible elective class in Wilson County doesn't have a number in the course catalog yet, it already has a large fan club.

In fact, enough students have signed up to make it available at all four county high schools, district officials said.

....
Despite some opposition from parents and community members, the course received overwhelming support from students and eventually the county school board. The panel, however, didn't follow Redmon's recommendation to use a curriculum prepared by the National Council on the Bible Curriculum in Public Schools.

Several biblical scholars and civil liberties organizations have deemed that curriculum erroneous and indoctrinating. Instead, Wilson went with a model used by others in the state that draws from a variety of supplementary sources, officials said.

[youngdem]

23. Another bullshit sandwich wrapped in tax payer dollars that will never be served

This is political bullshit of course. The wingnuts aren't carrying the day, so they go fishing for some bullshit issue.

The ACLU and others will sue the moment this becomes law and they will get an injunction, politicians will pontificate, lawyers will spew, and in the end, the ACLU will prevail and Georgia still won't be able to have a state sponsored religion.

I suspect this is a sour grapes desperate act by the same numb nuts that ran the evolution bullshit up the flag pole recently with the stickers and finally lost that battle.

I still say we need to get folks from every strange religion we can to go into schools and start instructing kids on the finer points of astrology, snake handling, animal sacrifice and so on. I think that Americans would quickly become fans again of the separation of church and state.

[BluePatriot]

25. Understanding the Bible's metaphors

is key to understanding plenty of works....Shakespeare comes to mind first. For Persian poetry we had to study the Koran. But I can't help but think that in GA a class like that in a HS would be ripe for proselytizing. Keep it in college.

[DemBones DemBones]

26. If it's taught as literature and history, it will enrich

students' education. As others have pointed out, if you aren't familiar with the Bible, you don't understand a lot of Biblical references in literature and art history. The Bible has had a huge influence on Western civilization.

Georgia has very strict standards specifying what is to be covered in every high school course and teachers have to write very detailed lesson plans that are keyed to the state-specified learning objectives, explain in detail how they will adapt the material for different learning modalities, what they will provide as enrichment work, what they will provide as remedial work, etc. Schools would not just be putting a teacher and a Bible in the classroom.

The article clearly says the courses won't be required and that school systems will decide whether to offer them in their district.

Most kids aren't that keen on the required literature or history classes so I don't think the Bible as literature and history classes will be very popular as electives.

The most conservative Christians aren't sending their kids to public school; they're sending them to private schools or they're homeschooling them, so I doubt they will be saying much about the classes, either, pro or con.

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I'm guessing it will just fade away.

[lakeguy]

28. i see cliff notes for the bible taking off on a

"biblical" scale.

[DemBones DemBones]

33. Possibly a Great Deluge of Cliff's Notes!

:rofl:

[VegasWolf]

32. The same is true for the teachings of Buddha and Mohamed, I assume you have NO problem with that?

[DemBones DemBones]

34. No problem at all. I studied all the great religious literature

in school, learned about all the religious belief systems, too.

[VegasWolf]

37. Good! I studied the Philosophy of Religion in college. That was one of the reasons I became an

atheist. Comparing and contrasting religions, watching them blend together, move with the political systems of their day, declare themselves to be the sole arbiter of truth. Do you think that is why the Georgia school system is wanting to limit the religious teachings (err, literature ) to the only major politically dominant religion in Georgia, Christianity? True, there are Muslims, Jews, and atheists there but those folk seem to be in a minority in the Georgia ( Deep South ) political system. It seems that political systems that represent far more heterogeneous populations like California and New York would be proposing a more broad based study of literature, don't you think?

[LiberalFighter]

27. Georgia Constitution

Section II
Paragraph VII. Separation of church and state. No money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect, cult, or religious denomination or of any sectarian institution.

[VegasWolf]

30. Cool, can we also have Neitze and Sartre explain atheism? What about The Literature and

History of the Wiccan religion? Guess the Holy Christians only want it taught their way.

[DemBones DemBones]

40. I read Nietzsche and Sartre in a high school world lit class

so I'm all for it. Wrote my term paper on "La Nausee." We also read the Epic of Gilgamesh, Lysistrata, lots of "controversial" stuff.

I learned how to read the Bible as literature and history at church but a lot of kids don't get that at church. These courses could expand their minds beyond literal interpretations of the Bible. Of course, those who firmly believe in the literal interpretation will not take these courses but, if this is a free society, they have a right to their beliefs.

[VegasWolf]

45. Great! You obviously have studied divergent schools of thought and come to your

own conclusions in your own way! Many people only bother to learn one side of the coin!

:toast:

[Chovexani]

58. Good luck finding decent Wiccan literature

I'd rather Silver Ravenwolf not be taught in school. :P

(Full disclosure: I've been a practicing Pagan for ten years, I have joke immunity. :evilgrin:)

[Zhade]

60. That name certainly doesn't inspire faith in his/her writing abilities.

NT!

[mitchum]

35. History? How can a book of mean-spirited fairy tales for herdsmen...

be construed as history?
I have no problem with the bible being taught as LITERATURE, but how in the hell does it qualify as history?

[VegasWolf]

39. Georgia - Babbly Bible, yes!! Harry Potter, Hell No!!! nt

[DemBones DemBones]

42. Do you live in Georgia? nt

[VegasWolf]

43. No! God no! Georgia wanted to put a sticker on the Science textbooks re evolution,

do you think they should put a similar sticker on the Bible for their literature class?

[piedmont]

44. That was ONE f'ing county in GA. I'd bet there are similar places in Nevada. nt

[VegasWolf]

46. Sure there are! But we don't read about Kroger grocers here refusing to hand out

prescriptions, or parents organizing Harry Potter book burning parties. For whatever reason, Georgia keeps popping up!!!

[piedmont]

47. Well, for one thing, I've noticed a TON of local crap from here pops up on CNN.

That has something to do with it, I'm sure. And yeah, some parts of GA are ultra-conservative, Atlanta sprawl loony-toon land. I kinda wonder if there's something fundamentally different about people who are willing and eager to live in sprawl.

[DemBones DemBones]

48. I'll bet you will eventually, though. I grew up in a

military family so I'd lived a lot of places (17 schools in 12 years) before I came to Georgia. Having lived so many places, I know you find good and bad everywhere.

[VegasWolf]

49. That's true! Actually I grew up in the South but I haven't lived there for 30 years! That's

rough though, so many schools. How do you like living in the genteel South?

[Vinca]

50. So if I want my kid to have a class about the Koran, that must be okay, too.

Right?

[annabanana]

55. ABsolutely!

An excellent idea, btw... ALL the "holy books" should be studied as literature.. and the history of those texts (as opposed to in those texts) as well...

[DBoon]

52. Whose bible will they use?

The Jewish, the Catholic, or the Protestant version?

In other words, which religion will they endorse?

[stonebone]

54. What makes you think these legislators actually read the Bible?

They're just pandering to their extremist base. It has nothing to do with real faith or religion.

[annabanana]

56. They should use ALL of them. . ("compare & contrast" questions alone

should have lit. teachers salivating)

[HuffleClaw]

57. "It's not just 'The Good Book...

...Williams said. "It's a good book." ...During last year's campaign-period legislative session, Democrats surprised majority Republicans by introducing a plan to teach the Bible in public schools. Republicans, who control both chambers, quickly responded with their own version, which passed and was signed into law by Gov. Sonny Perdue.

appalling. offensive and likely not consitutional.

[upi402]

62. "The constitution is just a peice of paper" - George W Bush

and I bet Babs & Daddums showed him what to wipe his ass with as a young teenager.

[upi402]

61. this causes rational, accepting folks to hate xtian zealotry

:eyes: fecking jayziz!
woman from a rib
animals from a boat
the earth 6K years old

time to stop the christians before they make us a loony talibland nation state