Another Home Pillaged, More Illegal Detentions (Iraq)

[tlcandie]

<snip>
On December 9th, at 10pm, US soldiers stormed a home in Al Ewadiyah neighborhood of Baghdad. Taharoh Muhammad Munahi Al Rufayai, a 43-year-old college professor; Leith, her brother and a retired army officer; and their elderly aunt Fahad. The soldiers forced the inhabitants to stand outside at gunpoint for five and a half hours in their bed clothes while they searched and pillaged the home, destroying much of its contents while looking for weapons and members of the resistance. Twenty soldiers picked through the home, while many more waiting outside with the family members, amidst hummers and light tanks, while helicopters circled above.
<snip>

<snip>
While this is occuring, Iftihar and Abu Fahar learn from the commander of the base that the storming of the home is simply US policy now and that wrong information was the reason their home was raided. Yet the commander was unable to provide any information as to the whereabouts of Leith, and now both he and Taharoh remain detained, whereabouts unknown.
<snip>

<snip>
Terrible as it was that Leith had been taken to prison for no reason, he wasn't the only thing taken illegally from the home. Om Fahadh tells me jewelry and gold were taken, $1,900 of Taharo's money, Fahad is missing $60 of her retirement money, two expensive watches, and between $1,750 and $2,500 of Leith's money, which he was saving as he was to be married soon. One of the watches was recovered the next day, returned by their neighbor who had watched an American jump from the fence between the two homes into his yard, then go to the street. Upon inspection in his yard the next day, he found a watch that had been dropped by the soldier.
<snip>

<snip>
Fahad suffers from diabetes, and from her condition must relieve herself often. She begged, through an Iraqi interpreter of the soldiers, to use the restroom, but to no avail. She even suggested they allow her to use the restroom while accompanied by a soldier. This was declined, and while weeping she was forced to urinate on herself while soldiers stood by laughing at her with the interpreter.
<snip>

http://electroniciraq.net/news/1272.shtml

EDIT: added link .. sorry these stories are so disturbing and I'm trying to handle a biz call at same time :(

[Blitz]

1. Link?

eom

[qanda]

Link please

Also, I don't know how many more of these stories I am going to be able to take. It's all so sad and depressing. My heart just sank...

[JohnyCanuck]

2. Oh well, it's still the finest military in the world

and can kick any other army's ass. Of course I hear the Whermacht was pretty damn good in its day as well.

Fahad suffers from diabetes, and from her condition must relieve herself often. She begged, through an Iraqi interpreter of the soldiers, to use the restroom, but to no avail. She even suggested they allow her to use the restroom while accompanied by a soldier. This was declined, and while weeping she was forced to urinate on herself while soldiers stood by laughing at her with the interpreter.

[Blitz]

3. "Of course I hear the Whermacht was pretty damn good in its day as well"

Ah, of course. American GIs = Nazis. A tried but true smear.

I'm sure that you believe this story because of the unimpeachable source.

[tlcandie]

5. Blitz there is nothing wrong with this source....

If you check at the bottom .. but I will put it here ..

Dahr Jamail is a freelance journalist and political activist from Anchorage, Alaska. He has come to Iraq to bear witness and write about how the US occupation is effecting the people of Iraq, since the media in the US has in large part, he believes, failed to do so.


He may yet be the largest source of truth after this is over. I don't understand how you can dismiss someone so quickly :shrug:

BTW, if you care to follow his stories, he is in shock as well more times than not.

EDIT: Here's more about this disreputable source - This page offers information on how to financially support the work of Voices in the Wilderness' Iraq Peace Team and the work of the Electronic Intifada team, who publish Electronic Iraq.

[Blitz]

8. At the time that I posted my message, no source had been cited

Now that I know that it is associated with electronicintifada, I am hardly reassured as to the veracity of this story. I do not know whether this actually happened or if it is just more propoganda. What I do know, and what was the point of the post that you replied to is that certain people find it hip and politically fashionable to compare American leaders and American soldiers with Nazis. I am of the opinion that this is a disgusting practice that finds no support in objective fact. You are entitled to disagree.

[tlcandie]

15. Well, I guess then we should discount all the blogs from our soldiers

as well. I mean NO personal accounts at all. NONE! Not even from American sources IN IRAQ making first hand accounts.

EMBEDDED or else!

[Blitz]

20. Blogs

are not news. There are posted standards for LBN threads. In my opinion someone whose stated aim is to act as a voice against the war can hardly count as an objective and credible news source (especially when he witnessed NONE of the events that he describes).

[tlcandie]

22. I feel like I'm in the WH, Blitz... I'm shaking my head...

Did I miss somewhere where HE was not there reporting this? You are saying it is manufactured...he is reporting it second hand or what? I'm totally confused about what you are saying with...

(especially when he witnessed NONE of the events that he describes)

[Blitz]

23. It is apparent from the article

that, if it's not a fabrication, that someone approached him and told him this story. Even if he is taken at his word, he did not see any US or Coalition soldier do anything wrong. All he has is the word of a third party (who is using a false name in the article), for whose veracity he cannot vouch, that this happened. While he suggests that he saw the house, he cannot say, based on personal knowledge, that the alleged damage was caused by U.S. soldiers and, if so, under what circumstances. He does not know that the people who were taken into custody are innocent or that nothing was found. He has only his source's representations to that effect. Moreover, the source is not disinterested and obviously has an interest in creating pressure for the release of her relatives and, if possible, for restitution for the damage allegedly done to her property. He apparently failed to seek comment from any representative of the US armed forces, which would seem like an obvious and responsible thing to do for any reporter (as opposed to propogandist). There aren't even quotes from corroborating witnesses, who should be plentiful and eager to talk.

Like I said, it's sloppy and it smacks of propoganda. It may or may not be true, but this source isn't (and doesn't act like) a legitimate news source and it would be wise to take his second hand allegations with a bucket of salt.

[tlcandie]

26. Might wanna check Democracy NOW!

This morning they reported more of this stuff going on. Nothing is gospel, but if even only 1/3 or 1/4 is true that isn't good and speaks ill of the US and all there in our name.

>U.S. Threatens to Shoot Iraqi Protesters Dead<

This is one of the headlines leading today's show...

http://www.democracynow.org/index.pl

READ all... gather/sift and find the common link/bond. Just because one is AHEAD of the curve doesn't make it untrue. More is coming down the pipes. It keeps getting louder and nastier.

This is called Iraq Diaries because it is accounts of incidents, news gathered from people (international variety) who wanted to go there and report ACTUAL events and truths of what is happening.

If this media had any soul they would be responding and reporting, investigating these stories to find the truth of the matter.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

25. hip and politically fashionable ? where? you live in Vera City? USA?

Since when is anything against the invasion and occupation hip and politically fashionable ?
I don't know where Vera City is but looking around here I see flag waving and a bunch of suckers that truly believe that taking over the world is a good thing since we can do a better job of things 'cuz we're Americans.
READ PNAC please!! They don't even hide their intention.

And as far as busting in, taking prisoners, looting...

Q:Tell me what is that reminiscent of?
A:Well good 'ol Nazi Germany of course.

just add concentration camps and presto!
The American way?--not my America

Poland was Hitler's debut. Iraq is ours. They have told us in PNAC. -You up for a little empire building?

They Nazi supporters thought they were doing the right thing too by eliminating terrorism!
Anything for love, right?

By the way the term propaganda is a publicity campaign supported by the govt for the govt=CNN FoX ABC CBS ...not independent exposure stories

gitin yer "veracity" on eh?
I'm practicing this disgusting practice(as you call it) because I have two eyes.
I could label your "practice" of dicrediting reality--
Any ideas what adjective that should be ? anyone?

[Razormill]

9. I have to agree with Blitz

that the "source" seems to be the only source of credibility. Like writing your own booksleeve on your first novel.

"What a wonderful author!Just riveting and the storyline? To die for!...if I may say so myself"

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Razormill]

16. As Gov Dean's favorite

philosopher,Lao-Tse, said "The longest journey begins with a single step."

Didn't you start at one post? I'm certain that was no measure of your integrity.

[Blitz]

19. And I'm sure that you know

that it is considered very, very bad form to attack a poster based on nothing more than their post count. Perhaps you forgot.

[qanda]

21. I didn't forget

And it wasn't an attack. It was sarcastic, in case you didn't notice.

[atreides1]

6. "Ah, of course. American GIs = Nazis"

That's not what was said, all that was mentioned was the Whermacht, the German Army.

What was unfair about the statement is that conquering armies throughout history have always looted from the conquered.

So now the US Army has just decided to go along with history.

Besides this isn't the first time that the theft of personal items
from Iraqi homes was reported.

I have already said this and I will say it again, the people here and in the country need to quit giving a free pass to the US military. As long as we all look the other way it will continue.

We promised the Iraqi people freedom and short of openly torturing, raping, and killing them, the treatment they are getting is just a
little better then what Saddam gave them.

People arrested for being "suspected" resistance fighters, women and children being treated like prisoners in their own country. Little or
no information about family members arrested and taken to prison.

Is this the "liberation" that the US has promised them. Granted this
isn't happening in all of Iraq, but if it's allowed to continue, the only safe haven for the Iraqi people will be in the south where the Brits are in control.

America home of the free(if you can afford to pay off politicians)

[Razormill]

11. It may not have been said

but it was certainly implied and to deny that is a little sophmoric.

[atreides1]

27. To You Maybe

You see I've studied WWII history and I didn't see any implication. It all depends on the people reading the post and what they assume. To me the German army of WWII does not automatically equate to Nazis,
they like the US soldiers actually thought they were doing the right thing.

They were told by their leaders that their way of life was under attack by outside forces, and that they were the greatest military force in the world. It was their duty to defend the Fatherland(Homeland) from all possible enemies. And that they had a right to launch pre-emptive attacks to keep Germany(America) safe.

Any of this sounding familiar to you, if not then maybe you better go back and research Bush's speeches.

By the way the US forces in Tikrit warned that if any pro-Saddam demonstrations take place the people involved will be arrested and put into jail.

Historically all conquering militaries have done the same thing, the Greeks, Romans, British, French, Russians, Spanish, and let's not forget the burning of crops and houses performed by the US military during the Civil War, and Vietnam.

Now tell me does this sound like the kind of things only the German army did during WWII, no it's been done throughout history. All that's
changed is the uniforms.

So you will forgive me if I thought the comparison to Nazis wasn't the only implication.

By the way name calling is a sign of little or no intelligence.

[NNN0LHI]

7. Hey Blitz. Lets wait for a reputable source like AP or NYT in 1933

http://216.26.163.62/2003/lev9_19.html

<snip>The advent of Hitler, on January 30, 1933, to the most absolute personal and ruthless power that the history of absolutism in post-Roman Europe had ever known, was the second most ominous event between the resurgence of absolutism in Russia and then in China. The news of the New York Times can be exemplified by this headline in the New York Times on the next day, January 31, p. 3: “HITLER PUTS ASIDE AIM TO BE DICTATOR.”

AP reported from Berlin, January 30:

“In a press conference, the Chancellor, through Interior Minister Frick, assured Germans and foreign correspondents that 'the new Government seeks to live in peace and friendship with all the world.'”

On March 24, page 2, the New York Times reported that according to a Frankfurter Zeitung editorial:

“Hermann Wilhelm Goering {at Nürnberg in 1946 found guilty of all charges and sentenced to death} has assured the Central Jewish Federation that all Jewish citizens loyal to the government could have the protection of law for person and property.”

On January 30, 1939, the sixth anniversary of the day he became chancellor, Hitler delivered in the Reichstag a marathon speech, which was just so much propaganda verbiage about how peaceful Germany was. Except for one threat. He declared that “if the international Jewish financiers” (read: Britain and France) “go to war with Germany, the result would be the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe.”

The New York Times discussed the speech in great detail. But it did not notice its only important sentence: Hitler's threat to annihilate the Jews in Europe.

[qanda]

4. Here's a link...

http://electroniciraq.net/news/1272.shtml

[loudnclear]

10. They will hate us not because of our freedoms but because of what we

are doing...and they will hate us for a long, long time. Our children and grandchilren will be paying in more than just money.

[Crunchy Frog]

12. Just trying to make new friends.

We have to keep on that hearts and minds thing.

[Aidoneus]

14. AHEM. "brave heroes"--check the memo.

"defending against terrorism". All this bad news is distracting from the great progress. For example, it's distracting from progress reports about that school that more of the best America has to offer are laying siege to. Tanks against stone-throwers--very original. This is probably all lies anyway--no way would these things ever be done by our heroic liberators.

C'mon, these memos are sent out for a reason, people..

[Malva Zebrina]

17. I would like to support these innocent troops who only wanted a

college education and were vaulted into this combat as pawns of the fascist Bush. But that picture does not look as though these troops are the younguns who are "innocent" peach fuzzed volunteers. Here is something I picked up today also. I am so sorry that we have turned into raving barbarians. It turns my stomach. But, apparently, because of Bush's ineptness and his inherent, gross, stupidity , we have become barbarians, and it looks as though, with all the PR advertisements, we actualluy enjoy that role. This is the Bush wet dream--kill, kill, kill and he , as the AWOL commander in chief, which gives him great pleasure to assume that title which he never earned eats it all up. Support these troops? How? How can I? They have turned.

__Insurgents or Protesters? 18 Are Killed in Clashes with US Troops

Robert Fisk writes, "While Washington and London were still congratulating themselves on the capture of Saddam Hussein, US troops have shot dead at least 18 Iraqis in the streets of three major cities in the country. Dramatic videotape from the city of Ramadi 75 miles west of Baghdad showed unarmed supporters of Saddam Hussein being gunned down in semi-darkness as they fled from Americans troops. Eleven of the 18 dead were killed by the Americans in Samarra to the north of Baghdad. All the killings came during demonstrations by Sunni Muslims against the American seizure of Saddam, protests that started near Samarra on Monday evening. The first demonstrators blocked roads north of Baghdad when armed men appeared alongside civilians who believed - initially - that US forces had arrested one of Saddam's doubles rather than the ex-dictator of Iraq. But their jubilation turned to fury when the Americans opened fire in Samarra a few hours later."

http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news1/fisk3.html

[mmm]

18. sadly, these tales of mayhem ring of the truth

[ThomC]

28. Even if you refuse to support the troops

You may want to examine the goals of the electric intifada that wrote this story. Their goal is not to provide unbiased and balanced reporting...their goal is to discredit Americans and Jews.

The electric intifada has only the palestinians interest in mind and maybe a few anti-American and anti-Jewish partners.

I can't believe the blind following of outrageous vanity sites like the electric intifada in this thread.

[lumpy]

24. Amazing that people

believe soldiers are so sacrosanct that they would not be tempted to do the inhumane acts that they do. And for God's sake turn your heads when a US soldier gets desert/jungle fever and behaves like an animal. It's the patriotic thing to do.

[ThomC]

29. Even more amazing is believing the electric intifada propaganda

The entire staff of EI does not even come close to the integrity and honesty of just one American soldier.