Rep. Stark applauded for atheist outlook

[brooklynite]

WASHINGTON - The American Humanist Association applauded Rep. Pete Stark for publicly acknowledging he does not believe in a supreme being. The declaration, it said, makes him the highest-ranking elected official - and first congressman - to proclaim to be an atheist.

The organization took out an ad in Tuesday's Washington Post, congratulating the California Democrat for his stance.

"With Stark's courageous public announcement of his nontheism, it is our hope that he will become an inspiration for others who have hidden their conclusions for far too long," executive director Roy Speckhardt said in a statement.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17594581/

[wryter2000]

1. He's from Oaktown

My hometown rocks. :bounce:

[caligirl]

11. fremont? just moved away from there. Large mormon group there

I think the town was built by mormons. so many churches there. But Stark gets reelected.

[wryter2000]

68. He has part of Oakland, too, I'm pretty sure

I used to vote for him when I lived in Montclair. I'm in Barbara Lee territory now.

[Alexander]

2. Wasn't there a poll out recently suggesting most Americans wouldn't want an atheist prez?

This gives me hope.

[Smarmie Doofus]

32. Not to begrudge you your hope, but....

... do you think a majority of Americans can even successfully define the word "atheist"?

[carla]

40. Do you think the majority

even vote? Kudos to the rep.

[Alexander]

50. Based on the responses of some DUers...

I'm not even sure half of DU can successfully define the word "atheist".

[Zhade]

65. Hell, a number of DUers can't - or won't - even do that!

They wrongly assert that it's the belief that gods don't exist, which is absolutely flat-out false.

[denverbill]

3. It's about time.

My guess is that the concentration of atheists/agnostics in Congress is actually higher than in the general public, which means an awful lot of Congressfolks are lying about their beliefs, or at minimum, exagerating them.

It's hard to believe that our first black, first female, first Asian, first Native American, first Catholic, first Jewish, first Mormon, first Muslim, and first gay Congressperson all came before our first atheist.

The poor Christian right is constantly harping about how persecuted they are, yet it took over 200 years for a Congressperson to actually admit being an atheist.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

7. oh bull puckey.

search and alert are my friends.

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

5. He's One of Them Troublemaking Unitarians!

Gotta keep your eyes on 'em! Here's what Adlai Stevenson said about us UU's...

"I think that one of our most important tasks is to convince others that there's nothing to fear in difference; that difference, in fact, is one of the healthiest and most invigorating of human characteristics without which life would become meaningless...Here lies the power of the liberal way ...in helping ourselves and others to see some of the possibilities inherent in viewpoints other than one's own; in encouraging the free interchange of ideas; in welcoming fresh approaches to the problems of life; in urging the fullest,
most vigorous use of critical self-examination...Unitarians are the sort of people who do the advance thinking, who are, for the most part, rocking the boat, who are cutting the furrows, who are ahead of the procession in contemporary thought in our country about our great social and political problems, as well as our theological discussion...This is the active agent in the body politic that is most necessary."

-- pretty scary stuff, isn't it?

[denverbill]

6. It reminds me of something I read from John Stuart Mill way back in college.

"...a foreigner, 4 for the same reason, was denied justice against a thief. This refusal of redress took place in virtue of the legal doctrine, that no person can be allowed to give evidence in a court of justice, who does not profess belief in a God (any god is sufficient) and in a future state; which is equivalent to declaring such persons to be outlaws, excluded from the protection of the tribunals; who may not only be robbed or assaulted with impunity, if no one but themselves, or persons of similar opinions, be present, but any one else may be robbed or assaulted with impunity, if the proof of the fact depends on their evidence. The assumption on which this is grounded, is that the oath is worthless, of a person who does not believe in a future state; a proposition which betokens much ignorance of history in those who assent to it (since it is historically true that a large proportion of infidels in all ages have been persons of distinguished integrity and honor); and would be maintained by no one who had the smallest conception how many of the persons in greatest repute with the world, both for virtues and for attainments, are well known, at least to their intimates, to be unbelievers. The rule, besides, is suicidal, and cuts away its own foundation. Under pretence that atheists must be liars, it admits the testimony of all atheists who are willing to lie, and rejects only those who brave the obloquy of publicly confessing a detested creed rather than affirm a falsehood."

[Nevernose]

21. What do you get when you cross a UU with a dyslexic?

Every UU joke I know is old, but I collect them anyway. Here's a few for your amusement...

What do you get when you cross a UU with a dyslexic?
Someone who is not sure if (s)he believes in Dog.

How many Unitarians does it take to change a light bulb?
There is no fixed number but the committee must have a quorum.

Unitarians believe in, at most, one god.

How many Unitarian Universalists does it take to change a light bulb?

We choose not to make a statement either in favor of or against the light bulb. However, if you have found in your own journey that light bulbs work for you, that is fine. You are invited to write a poem or compose a modern dance about your personal relationship with your light bulb and present it next month at our annual light bulb Sunday service in which we will explore a number of light bulb traditions, including incandescent, fluorescent, three-way, long-life, and tinted, all of which are equally valid paths to luminescence.

[Lorien]

25. Lol!

Thanks, I had to pass those along to a few on my email list. :hi:

[Stuckinthebush]

36. Bwaahhhaaa!

I love the light bulb modern dance image! I have to pass this on to my UU minister.

[eppur_se_muova]

49. What do you get when a cross a Universalist Unitarian with a Jehovah's Witness?

Someone who goes around knocking on people's doors for no particular reason.

[Smarmie Doofus]

61. Now THAT is funny. nt

[ProudDad]

51. Don't piss of the Unitarians

or they'll come burn a question mark on your lawn.


There was a fellow who had a Unitarian mother and a Jehova's Witness father. He'd knock on your door and then couldn't think of anything to say.


Thanks to U. Utah Phillips, the Golden Voice of the Great Soutwest:

http://www.utahphillips.org/
http://www.google.com/musica?aid=T0aosXzAhcO&sa=X&oi=music&ct=result

A great mind, great performer, great activist and great friend!!!

He also wouldn't let me get away with posting our union sites:

www.iww.org
http://www.local1000.com/

[Cha]

47. They're the best..I've been to

that "church" in my town. All the members are really cool and believe in Peace and Democracy. If I were an "organization" person that's the one I would go to on Sunday mornings.

I also like the way the Native Americans looked at the Universe with the four commandments from The Great Spirit.

"1.Respect Mother Earth
2.Respect the Great Spirit
3.Respect our fellow man and woman
4.Respect for individual freedom"

Pete Stark is one of my favorite members of Congress! :patriot: :patriot:

[Pastiche423]

8. One reason I love Rep. Pete Stark!

Another is when he call El Mono AWOL on the House floor.

[Arugula Latte]

9. All right Pete Stark!!!

:toast:

Congratulations Rep. Stark for your reliance on reason and common sense!

[YankeyMCC]

10. Kick and R for Rep Stark

[DemKR]

12. Lovinnnn Pete Stark!!

[Vexatious Ape]

13. I shall adopt him immediately.

My Congressmen is Lyn Westmoreland-R Georgia. A true christian fascist.

[Lefty-Taylor]

14. I called Stark's office to thank him.

I said: "I'm sure you will be hearing a lot of negativity from the religious nutcases, but there are a lot of us atheists/agnostics out there and more of us need to come forward. Thank you!!"

[Vexatious Ape]

17. Good idea. I'll be doing the same.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

24. The one who couldn't remember the 10 commandments?

[Vexatious Ape]

63. That's the one. Good memory.

[Random_Australian]

15. Awesome. K&R!

[brentspeak]

16. Why would anyone be "proud" OR disappointed that Stark is an athiest?

What difference does it make? Just as it's stupid for people to vote for Bush because of his avowed religious beliefs, it's stupid to vote for someone because of their lack of religious beliefs.

[youngdem]

18. Because it is politically troublesome to admit his faith and that takes guts

and for secular humanists (like myself) who dislike greatly the role that religion plays in our politics and foreign affairs, it is encouraging to see someone stand up and say they are atheistic and they are no less an American or patriot because of it.

Also, not being wrapped up in whose invisible friend is the coolest might allow someone to think clearly on matters that have stumped politicians chosen from the participant religions. The potential for this too can invoke understandable pride in someone.

I don't think it is stupid at all to celebrate someone's freedom from silly, antiquated rules based on mythology. Maybe that's just me.

[Arugula Latte]

37. Well said! nt

[Trajan]

19. I prefer shared rejection of superstition ....

Than a shared acceptance of superstition ....

I dont find it 'stupid' at all ....

[0rganism]

23. the phenom is not that he's an atheist, but that he dares to admit it in public

Understand, please, that atheists are typically regarded as somewhat less electable than Satanists in presidential elections.

[bananas]

30. He's not the first - Bob Matsui, Mazie Hirono, Hank Johnson all preceded him

[Unvanguard]

28. Because it's a stand against the prejudice directed against atheists

particularly atheists in political positions.

[ProudDad]

52. Because it's so God Damn Refreshing

in this cryto-christian environment to find ones own beliefs OR LACK OF SAME reflected in the halls of power and the public attention.

I've always had the highest respect for Pete Stark and it's gone up a couple of notches with this announcement...

[sandyd921]

20. Pete Stark rocks!

:yourock:

K & R

[ChaoticSilly]

22. Good for him

In my state (Tennessee) and a few others, this would make him ineligible to hold any public office. In Arkansas, unless the laws have changed recently, he wouldn't be able to even serve as a witness in court. And yet we wonder why the rest of the world thinks we're religious fanatics.

[B3Nut]

34. Technically true, but

state constitutions are subject to overrule by the US Constitution, which states that no religious test shall be a basis for any office or service in the United States, even at the state level. It's explicitly spelled out. These obsolete statutes definitely need to be retired, although the religious conservatives in those regions would doubtless raise a hue and cry, ignorant as they are of what church-state separation is, or why it is vitally important *to them* as much as to a secularist. They swallow the lie from Dobson et al that church-state separation is a myth, not realizing the myriad ways in which a theocracy could end up biting *them* in the ass at some point.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[slowry]

26. Ummm I don't get it... so he's admitting he's immoral and doesn't value life or country, etc.?

:hi: :sarcasm: :hi:

[PassingFair]

27. Hip Hip ...

Hoo Ray!

MANY have expressed their doubts.

He is to be commended for expressing his "conclusions" STARKLY!

Long live Pete Stark.

[6000eliot]

29. Yea for Pete Stark!

[AnOhioan]

31. K&R

[sarcasmo]

33. This Atheist is proud of MR Stark. Long live the Spaghetti Monster.

[JNelson6563]

35. Another reason to love him IMO

Ah the beloved Pete Stark. You should've seen him a couple of years ago or so when he went on CNBC and really let loose. Those reich-wing supply siders were beside themselves....he called Bush a fascist for one thing. When asked about the "economic recovery" Stark replied "Aw you're dreamin'!" with a dismissive hand gesture. He was the most plain spoken and refreshing voice I've heard. Just for that I called his office to tell them I thought he was fabulous.

Looks like I'll be calling again. :-)

Julie

[goodhue]

38. Technically he is a nontheist, and not an atheist as generally understood

While sometimes lumped in with atheism, nontheism should not be confused with strong atheism which denies existence of God. Nontheists do not consider question of God to be relevant to them.

Buddha was nontheist, and so are most Buddhists, and many Quakers and Unitarians.

Stark identified himself as a Unitarian who is nontheist, which is different from commonplace understanding of both atheism and agnosticism. He is most certainly not the first nontheist in Congress, but is apparently the first to acknowledge so to the press. I would suggest that the two Buddhists presently in Congress are probably nontheists as well, at least if they have thought of it.



Here are some definitions . . .

Atheist

The meaning of the label "atheist" is dependent upon the context. Strong atheists, for certain definitions of God at least, maintain that God is non-existent. In contrast, weak atheists are without a belief in God - they maintain that the burden of proof is on the theist to provide supporting evidence for God's existence. Atheists are encouraged to qualify their position when seeking to minimize confusion.

Strong Atheist

A person who maintains that it is impossible and improbable that a god or gods exists.

Weak Atheist

A person who concedes the possibility that a god or gods may exist, but maintains that such is improbable.

Agnostic

A person who considers the existence of god or gods to be unknown or unknowable.

Nontheist

A nontheist does not consider the question of God as it is totally irrelevant to them.

http://www.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/web/group-faq

[ProudDad]

53. Thanks for that

I was always uncomfortable with Atheist because it seems to indicate that I give a shit about whether Dog exists or not.


I really don't!!


I'M A NONTHEIST! Hip, Hip, Hooooorayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!



:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[undeterred]

39. As a Christian I think

its kinda cool. But kinda sad we have an environment where it is difficult to be an atheist in public office, which I agree that we do.

[DemGa]

41. Really I find faith in nothingness hard to celebrate

but to each his own.

[FiveGoodMen]

42. I think it's the honesty that's being celebrated.

[DemGa]

43. I see your point

People should not have to hide their faith, or non-faith. I applaud his honesty.

[goodhue]

44. Stark is a Unitarian

http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/uufaq.html#god

What do UUs believe about God?

Some Unitarian Universalists are nontheists and do not find language about God useful. The faith of other Unitarian Universalists in God may be profound, though among these, too, talk of God may be restrained. Why?

The word God is much abused. Far too often, the word seems to refer to a kind of granddaddy in the sky or a super magician. To avoid confusion, many Unitarian Universalists are more apt to speak of "reverence for life" (in the words of Albert Schweitzer, a Unitarian), the spirit of love or truth, the holy, or the gracious. Many also prefer such language because it is inclusive; it is used with integrity by theist and nontheist members.

Whatever our theological persuasion, Unitarian Universalists generally agree that the fruits of religious belief matter more than beliefs about religion-even about God. So we usually speak more of the fruits: gratitude for blessings, worthy aspirations, the renewal of hope, and service on behalf of justice.

[Critters2]

55. When I was invited to preach at a UU church, I was asked not to use the word "God"

I pointed out that they had invited a Christian to their pulpit, that my own tradition guarantees freedom of the pulpit, and that I would make use of that freedom, even in a UU pulpit. The minister's response was "Okay, but don't say I didn't warn you." So, I preached. And got lots of compliments on how surprisingly open-minded I was....for a Christian. One person, though, summed up the attitude of most there: "You seem way too bright to be a Christian".

Which is why I'm not a UU.

[churchofreality]

45. I find faith in imaginary nonsense hard to celebrate

call me crazy.

[Gelliebeans]

46. You Crazy!

hee hee ;) j/k

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Do you get upset...

when blacks, women, gays, or other people make similar accomplishments?

I'm guessing that yes, yes you do. But I wanted to make sure.

[DemGa]

59. What does being black, gay, or female have to do with

having faith in eternal nothingness?

Seriously though; no, no I don't. In fact, just the opposite.

[mondo joe]

60. Where did you get a faith in "nothingness"?

I'm pretty sure he accepts there are plenty of things.

[underpants]

48. Thank God!

O8)

[PurityOfEssence]

54. His speech against the IWR says it all:

"The bottom line is I don't trust this president and his advisors."

[Vinca]

56. It's about time people realize atheists don't sacrifice goats in the kitchen

and draw pentacles on the living room floor. Booga, booga, booga!!:evilgrin:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

57. Of course not, silly! It's the other way around!

Baphomet DEMANDS his pentacles on the KITCHEN floor, and always did!

[Synnical]

62. Thank you Rep. Stark

Love ya so much I just sent you a campaign re-election contribution and a note of thanks.

:bounce:

[Zhade]

64. It's so nice to see it acknowledged as a lack of belief in gods!

Finally, they get it right.

[Pastiche423]

66. Speaking of Pete Stark...

Does anyone remember that night back in '03, when the repugs got pissed when all of the Dems (except Stark) walked off the House floor? IIRC, the repugs had brought a new bill to the floor that NO ONE had read and wanted to vote on it right then and there.

The Dems had left Pete there all alone to exercise his prerogative to have the bill read line-by-line. (90 pages) Pete's request (and the fact all of the other Dems had left) pissed off the repugs so much, that they called the Capitol police.

(Found an article or two)...

"Meanwhile, the rump committee hearing had itself erupted. As Congressman Bill Thomas repeatedly asked for unanimous consent to dispense with reading the bill line-by-line, Stark continually objected and the reading continued. Stark, a longtime liberal congressman from the San Francisco Bay Area, made a sarcastic reference to Thomas’s “intellect,” only to be told to “shut up” by Scott McInnis, a Republican from Colorado. Stark angrily denounced McInnis, calling him several names and daring him to fight. (Stark is 71, McInnis is a 50-year-old ex-policeman)."

What Pete actually said was: "You think you are big enough to make me, you little wimp? Come on. Come over here and make me. I dare you...you little fruitcake. You little fruitcake. I said you are a fruitcake!"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Man, that was a very good night!

P.S. The Capitol police said, it ain't our role or authority to intervene.

[pettypace]

67. per his bio

Gradutate of MIT and Berkley - same as one Peter Miguel Camejo (graduate part notwithstanding).

Now here's a Dem you can show around the town.