Effects of chickenpox vaccine fade over time

[TechBear_Seattle]

Effects of chickenpox vaccine fade over time

BOSTON (Reuters) - Merck's chickenpox vaccine Varivax not only loses its effectiveness after a while, but it has also changed the profile of the disease in the population, U.S. researchers reported on Wednesday.

The study confirmed what doctors widely knew -- that the vaccine's protection does not last long.

And with fewer natural cases of the disease going around, unvaccinated children or children in whom the first dose of the vaccine fails to work have been catching the highly contagious disease later in life, when the risk of severe complications is greater, they said.

"If you're unvaccinated and you get it later in life, there's a 20-times greater risk of dying compared to a child, and a 10 to 15 times greater chance of getting hospitalized," said Jane Seward of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, who worked on the study.

The full article can be read at http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070315/hl_nm/chickenpox_vaccine_dc

[Quakerfriend]

1. That is precisely why this has NEVER been a good vaccine.

The only thing it was ever good for was saving working parents a week of lost work time.

[hlthe2b]

6. Yup.... I had a big argument about this with other public health

folks at the time ACIP decided to recommend it. Sadly, my concerns have been realized.

[mzmolly]

27. And people are so inclined to believe what they're sold about vaccination

"questioning" is akin to blasphemy.

[antigop]

54. Keep questioning, mzmolly! n/t

[latebloomer]

70. Yes, and when I worked in a hospital in the early 90s

and the pharma reps came to sell it (and give us sumptuous lunches), they admitted that was one of the main reasons for the vaccine-- keeping parents from missing work!

None of this is news-- it has been known from the beginning that the vaccine doesn't last long and that getting chicken pox as an adult is FAR more dangerous.

[crim son]

90. Our pediatrician told us the same thing when I was forced

to vaccinate my youngest son to keep him in school.

[wuushew]

2. can someone explain the mechanism for increased danger later in life?

Children are not always more robust fighting disease vis a vis the adult population. I have always wondered with great curiosity why the difference is so pronounced with chicken pox.

[raccoon]

3. I heard that about mumps, too, in the days when people got mumps. nt

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. Measles and mumps, too

I believe the problem is that a fully mature immune system fights too hard. Instead of attacking just the virus, the immune system attacks infected tissue as well and ends up causing as much damage as the infection. Younger, less developped immune systems do not go to such extremes.

[politicat]

56. In chicken pox and mumps specifically, the younger the child, the milder

the case (in general.) And actually, for most so called childhood diseases, children have much tougher immune systems than adults do. Measles kills adults; it rarely kills children. For that matter, any endemic disease hits children a lot softer (historical epidemiology shows that, if a population is going to get a disease and survive, it's going to be the young'uns, not the adults. The plague is a great case in point -- most of the survivors were children and teenagers.)

What a lot of people forget is that ALL vaccines are not permanent. It's the herd immunity that having 95% of the population covered by vaccine that protects us. My GP has me get an MMR, hep series, tetanus and diptheria every ten years, and once I get approved for my smallpox vaccine, I'll need to get it again every decade or so.

I am one of those kids who would have benefited from a varicella vaccine (even if I did need to get it every decade, like a tetanus shot and the smallpox vaccination. The latter is not lifetime, either!) My little sister brought CP home when she was 10... and I was 16. The vaccine was not yet available (still in trials). I got the pox. Had I been able to get vaccinated and get later refreshers, I would have saved myself a lot of pain, my parents a lot of money and worry, and the State of Arizona (my dad was a state employee at the time) a F&*! of a lot of money.

I was in critical condition for almost a week, and ICU for three days. I spent three days on a ventilator because the pox went down my trachea. I also spent four weeks on a liquid diet because I had pox down my esophagus. I was on enough morphine to stock Pain and Wastings for three or four days. (Fortunately, I remember very little of that horrible week in the hospital.)

My husband and his father are excellent examples of mumps -- DH had mumps at 6, and spent a couple weeks uncomfortable, with his lymph nodes swollen, but with no orchitis at all. His dad spent three months recovering, and lost a testicle. DH brought it home to his dad 30 years ago.

I've got a friend who picked up whooping cough at age 58 ... somewhere. He took most of a year to recover. So...

[susanna]

78. I was vaccinated for whooping cough in the late 60s/ early 70s.

No one ever mentioned to me that I might need boosters.

So, fast forward: got whooping cough as an adult two years ago, 36 years old. The problem seems to be that whooping cough immunity is actually better guaranteed by vaccination. I guess what I mean is, if you "suffer through it" on your own, your immunity isn't that great; the shots are better for WC. I can vouch for that.

I have lived through at least one really serious infectious disease and lived. (For those who care, I survived Eastern Equine Encephalitis. I lost 20+ lbs in a matter of a week, no food, no water, no nothing...there is NO vaccine for it.)

Problem is with WC is that they want you symptom-free before delivering the boosters that no one ever told you about. Two years later, and I'm not symptom-free. My scans and x-rays are clear, but I still cough in the whooping cough model - not symptom-free - no booster!

Seriously - I have coughed so much over the last two years that I broke a left-side rib...TWICE. I kid you not. Whooping cough is terrible. :-(

[harun]

94. It depends on the virus, some hit strong immune systems

harder some hit weak immune systems harder. For example if a virus you are infected with triggers an immune response so strong the actual response kills you, then it will hurt young people more and older people with weaker immune systems will be affected less. If the actual virus is what is doing all the damage then it might not hurt young people as bad, as their bodies can heal faster and are healthier.

[ShortnFiery]

5. I just had my preteen's Chicken Pox Vaccine boosted last friday.

I followed guidelines and had my child vaccinated before the age of 2 for Chicken Pox. Yes, it does worry me and I did some research. Many medical professionals recommend having this vaccine boosted during the child's middle school years.

Who knows for sure? - this new Chicken Pox vaccine might mirror the duration effectiveness of the Tetanus vaccine: BOTH may need to be boosted every 10 years. :shrug:

Still, since I suffered greatly from Chicken Pox at the age of 6 (there was NOT an area more than an half inch diameter that was not infected on my body - it was hell!), I did not want my daughter to experience this horrid illness.

But I will also not forget to remind her to keep this vaccine boosted lest it was all for nothing.

[AtLiberty]

7. I nearly died of chicken pox as a child, so...

I had my kids vaccinated when then were tots, but I purposely allowed it to wear off. When they did get chicken pox about eight years later, they had mild/average cases.

I, too, do a lot of research, as I did prior to any vaccinations for my children...even insisting that they not receive vaccines from certain lots. When I discussed the chicken pox vaccine with my pediatrician, she said that she had just spent the weekend at the hospital dealing with a near-fatal case of chicken pox, so...

I understand it's a difficult decision, but please don't make sweeping judgments.

[ShortnFiery]

9. Well put. Many of these medical decisions are for the family and the individual to decide.

I was only hospitalized for a brief time, but did not face death from Chicken Pox ... but I still remember the bad experience. :(

No, in few, but very notable cases, even having Chicken Pox at a young age can be deadly. It's not quite just "a week's lost time" from day care or elementary school in SOME cases.

You're right that we should refrain from stereotyping. Yet, it is a common human habit to make better sense of the world ... shouldn't over do. Understood. :-)

Isn't it the case, from Family Planning (The Freedom of Choice) to Assisted Suicide (Grace in Death), that in truly FREE and DEMOCRATIC Societies, the Government give guidelines and then lets the individual decide for him/her self?

It is not "the government's" business whether I choose to get my daughter a booster or, as you did, allow her to experience Chicken Pox later.

MEDICAL decisions are *family* and *individual* rights for Citizens.

Governor Perry and the rest of the State and National Governments need to advise and then butt out! :thumbsup: ;)

[mzmolly]

28. Most cases of chicken pox are mild, but I'm certain your experience

played a role in your decision. I agree on the sweeping judgments, I fully respect your choice to vaccinate your wee ones. :hi:

[Liberal Veteran]

8. So....basically, we just need to have booster shots.

Like we do with tetanus and diphtheria vaccines.

We like to think of chickenpox as a relatively benign childhood illness, but about one in ten people who had the childhood disease experience chickenpox's encore later in life, shingles.

And shingles can be extremely painful. While most people will experience only temporary discomfort, a percentage of people with shingles will develop postherpetic neuralgia that is characterized by chronic, and often excruciating pain for months and even years after an outbreak of shingles.

[depakid]

32. That's basically the case

I know someone who had shingles- and it's definitely something no one here wants to get.

Retroviri are real bastards, it makes good sense to avoid them.

[John Q. Citizen]

47. I heard they now have a shingles vaccine.

[keithjx]

10. So NOW what do I do???

I'm 31 and never had chickenpox. I had the vaccine shortly after it came out. At this point, I think I just keep getting a booster and hope for the best. Grrr....
KJ

[ShortnFiery]

11. It's not a bad idea ...

My daughter didn't even have a sore arm ... in fact she won all three of her fight club bouts in this past weekend's tournament, i.e., only two days after she was vaccinated those punches still landed solid. :wow: However, we all are different, but the safety profile and history of the Chicken Pox Vaccine is sound.

IMO the most painful and side effect ridden vaccine is the one for typhoid, i.e. fervor, body aches and sore arm for days on end. :(

*On Edit: It's IMO best to get in contact with your local health department and/or do some further research online.

[OhioChick]

16. You're not the only one......

I never had the chickenpox, either. The kids had them years ago, I thought that I'd surely come down with it then. Never had a shot, either. Immune, maybe? :shrug:

[gravity]

36. I think thats the best

Maybe the young shouldn't get the shots, but in your case, just get a booster every so often. You don't want to take chances of possibly catching it.

[robcon]

12. I had chicken pox when I was 29

Although I didn't need to be hospitalized, the fever, sweats and aches were more severe, IMO, than what is experienced by children with chicken pox.

[TheManInTheMac]

95. Not just in your opinion;

it's a fact. Childhood diseases are almost always worse in adulthood. And this post just confirms my belief that "chicken pox parties" are probably a good idea, as opposed to a less effective vaccine.
You should look into how to prevent shingles; I've heard that they are horrible.

[hedgehog]

13. Here's what I'm wondering - previously, EVERYONE caught

chickenpox before the age of 10. We know that the virus never leaves the body. We know that in some older people, the virus can reactivate as shingles. Shingles is very serious;excruciatingly painful to say the least and it can cause damage to the corneas. Here's the question: what adult illnesses are also associated with this version of the herpes virus that we don't recognize simply because the virus is so ubiquitous? Could some forms of mental illness be triggered by this virus? That's not so far fetched when you consider that some cases of OCD are caused by strep infection. I'd be all for vaccinating the little ones and keeping up with the boosters unless you are anticipating the fall of civilization any time soon.

[ShortnFiery]

14. Excellent Questions!

We need to research the efforts of medical specialists and physiologists. Yes, these are very complex issues that warrant further study. :thumbsup: :hi:

[hedgehog]

15. My mother has always maintained that herpes zoster is a trigger

for schizophrenia. I don't think we've seen a drop in schizophrenia yet, but the first cohort of kids to have received the vaccine won't be entering the critical stage for another few years. (Schizophrenia often hits at about age 18-24; a lot of people have their first break at college) As far as I know, the first kids to receive the chickenpox vaccines are just about 12-14.


BTW - in doing research on vaccines, I found out that at least 6% of the kids exposed in utero to wild German measles virus (ie their mothers caught German measles while pregnant) went on to develop autism. That is a clear case of a virus triggering genetic potential.

[ShortnFiery]

17. Just one correction.

It is recommended that children receive their FIRST vaccination before the age of 2 years old. That is what I did with my daughter ... she received her first Chicken Pox Vaccine at one year eleven months of age. Evidently the shot "took" (provided immunity) because up until the age of five she was placed in Child Day Care while I commuted to work at the Pentagon.

Because she had not had "a hint" of being infected with chicken pox at the age of 12 y.o., I talked with her school nurse and our base's Immunization Clinic. We decided that it would be "wise" to get her a booster shot now while she's in 7th Grade.

Each parent has to handle it their own way. My personal view is with yours: If the child can avoid getting this virus, it's worth the follow up booster shots. If only to avoid shingles or the "theory" of perhaps succumbing to Schizophrenia as a young adult. :shrug:

On edit: Since the shot's only been out since 95 and given at the age of 2 y.o., you're correct in estimating that the "front end" age of Children Immunized against Chicken Pox are 14 years old at this point in time. Yes, time will tell if Schizophrenia rates subside.

[NashVegas]

19. I Never Got Chicken Pox Until the End of 10th Grade

Spent the first two weeks of summer vacation out of commission. Pain. In. The. Ass. And everywhere else.

[leftchick]

31. The vaccine has been used in Japan for a decade longer

<snip>

But now that practically every child in the United States has been given a dose of chickenpox vaccine, neither kids nor adults will have the opportunity for re-exposure. The initial hope that the vaccine would help prevent shingles (because immunized people are less likely to develop shingles than people who have had the natural infection) may unravel, both for the large number of people who had chickenpox before the vaccine was introduced and for the children who are now being immunized. It is too soon to tell, but we may well need to routinely re-immunize children and perhaps even adults to prevent recurrent chickenpox and shingles—a far more costly proposition than we originally bargained for.

Perhaps we should have seen this coming. Though a few vaccines (measles and yellow fever are good examples) seem to give lifelong protection after a single dose, most need to be repeated at regular intervals to maintain their effectiveness. Tetanus boosters are given every 10 years (when did you last have one?). That was also the recommended interval for the smallpox vaccine, back in the days when we used to give it. I keep wondering if our early-on enthusiasm for the new chickenpox vaccine might have led us to ignore our past experience.

Now what? To ensure an uninterrupted supply of vaccines, the government has set up an extraordinary mechanism to protect manufacturers from the threat of lawsuits. Every dose of each vaccine is taxed and the proceeds are set aside to compensate any vaccine recipient who is harmed by immunization. Manufacturers cannot be sued—an unusual benefit. Maybe the manufacturers should have to offer something in return for this special gift in the event that a new vaccine turns out to cost much more than anticipated: lower profits. There is a limited amount of money available in the United States for children's health care in general and for vaccines in particular. If society is expected to simply swallow the extra cost of multiple doses of the chickenpox vaccine, there is a serious risk that in the future we won't be able to afford more immunizations like it.

http://www.slate.com/id/2114797/

[mzmolly]

34. "Perhaps we should have seen this coming."

Some of us did. Also the measles vaccine (among others) also has waning immunity...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10025471&dopt=Abstract

[hedgehog]

39. Given the nature of vaccine manufacturing (dealing with living organisms),

it appears to be inevitable that there will be side effects. Consider that in a vial of killed virus polio vaccine, a single living virus can wreak havoc. Can anyone absolutely positively guarantee that every single virus in every single vial is killed? With old style pertussis vaccine, there was the potential that traces of the pertussis toxin would cause reactions. Since as a society, we were all trading a large chance of getting the disease for a small chance of reacting to the vaccine, it makes sense for a government fund to pay off the losers in the vaccine lottery. BUT, with the liability protection the drug companies should also accept rigid manufacturing regulations and frequent inspections to ensure that the odds on the vaccine lottery are as low as possible. There should also be more research on devising new methods of manufacturing vaccines. Newer techniques use molecules that model the outer shell of the virus or bacterium to train the body's immune system rather than a the actual virus or bacteria.

[mzmolly]

60. "There should also be more research on devising new methods of manufacturing vaccines."

Agreed.

[mzmolly]

30. Yep, saw that measles data, and it might explain why the vaccine may also play a role?

I also read recently that the flu virus can play a role in schizophrenia if a mother contracts it while she's expecting?

EEK!

[harpboy_ak]

97. Rubella is most likely to cause Down's syndrome

A rubella infection in the first trimester often causes Down's syndrome; it's been a well known cause for a long time, since I first learned that 45 years ago when a friend of my mother had German measles (rubella) when she was 6 months pregnant, and her daughter was a profoundly disabled Down's child.

I had chicken pox, and missed a week of summer vacation, one of the several times when I had a high fever for long enough to worry my parents. In my early 40s I went back to college while working full time, overworked, overstressed, not eating, exercising, or resting well, and got shingles, horrible never ending pain on both sides of my waist and my lower back, and at the beginning of final exam week. Pain killers only changed it from excruciating to highly irritating.

Once exams were over and I had a chance to catch up on sleep and relax, the shingles pain gradually faded away. I never want to go through it again.

[mzmolly]

29. Keep in mind the questions you raise can pertain to the vaccine as well.

It's an immune response that is thought to be linked to OCD/Tourette Syndrome etc. Vaccines also stimulate the immune system so? I wonder which would have a greater impact? Does age make a difference?

Excellent questions.

[Barrett808]

42. With Genomics, it's becoming clear that viruses are central to evolution and life itself

If humans are one of the most successful species in history, chicken pox is perhaps the most successful virus in history.

For mind-blowing re-evaluations of the importance of viruses to evolution and life, see:

Villarreal, Luis P., Viruses And The Evolution Of Life
http://www.amazon.com/Viruses-Evolution-Life-Luis-Villarreal/dp/1555813097/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-2828277-1154429?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174073859&sr=8-1

Also:

More about gene transfer — A team from California and Tennessee observe in Nature that bacteria often swap much larger blocks of DNA than previously thought. And in PNAS two biologists at Berkeley conservatively survey the unobscured evidence for horizontal gene transfer in all domains.
Ian Lo et al., "Strain-resolved community proteomics reveals recombining genomes of acidophilic bacteria" , 10.1038/nature05624, Nature, online 7 Mar 2007.
In-Geol Choi and Sung-Hou Kim, "Global extent of horizontal gene transfer" (abstract | 7-page PDF), 10.1073/pnas.0611557104, p 4489-4494 v 104, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, 13 Mar (online 7 Mar) 2007

The emerging picture of microbes as gene-swapping collectives demands a revision of such concepts as organism, species and evolution itself. — Nigel Goldenfeld and Carl Woese
Nigel Goldenfeld and Carl Woese, "Biology's next revolution" (text), 10.1038/445369a, p 369 v 445, Nature, 25 Jan 2007.

http://www.panspermia.org/whatsnew.htm

[mzmolly]

63. Can you recap the contents of the book for those who haven't read it?

Thanky. :hi:

[Barrett808]

85. Here's a nice summary of "Biology's next revolution"

Biology's next revolution
Nigel Goldenfeld1 and Carl Woese2
Nature 445, 369 (25 January 2007) | doi:10.1038/445369a; Published online 24 January 2007 Connections
http://www.wanderings.net/notebook/Main/BiologyNextRevolution

1. Nigel Goldenfeld is in the Department of Physics and Institute for Genomic Biology, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 1110 West Green Street, Urbana, Illinois 61801, USA. 2. Carl Woese is in the Department of Microbiology and Institute for Genomic Biology, 601 South Goodwin Avenue, Urbana, Illinois 61801, USA.

Abstract

The emerging picture of microbes as gene-swapping collectives demands a revision of such concepts as organism, species and evolution itself.

One of the most fundamental patterns of scientific discovery is the revolution in thought that accompanies a new body of data. Satellite-based astronomy has, during the past decade, overthrown our most cherished ideas of cosmology, especially those relating to the size, dynamics and composition of the Universe.

Similarly, the convergence of fresh theoretical ideas in evolution and the coming avalanche of genomic data will profoundly alter our understanding of the biosphere — and is likely to lead to revision of concepts such as species, organism and evolution. Here we explain why we foresee such a dramatic transformation, and why we believe the molecular reductionism that dominated twentieth-century biology will be superseded by an interdisciplinary approach that embraces collective phenomena.

The place to start is horizontal gene transfer (HGT), the non-genealogical transfer of genetic material from one organism to another — such as from one bacterium to another or from viruses to bacteria. Among microbes, HGT is pervasive and powerful — for example, in accelerating the spread of antibiotic resistance. Owing to HGT, it is not a good approximation to regard microbes as organisms dominated by individual characteristics. In fact, their communications by genetic or quorum-sensing channels indicate that microbial behaviour must be understood as predominantly cooperative.

In the wild, microbes form communities, invade biochemical niches and partake in biogeochemical cycles. The available studies strongly indicate that microbes absorb and discard genes as needed, in response to their environment. Rather than discrete genomes, we see a continuum of genomic possibilities, which casts doubt on the validity of the concept of a 'species' when extended into the microbial realm. The uselessness of the species concept is inherent in the recent forays into metagenomics — the study of genomes recovered from natural samples as opposed to clonal cultures. For example, studies of the spatial distribution of rhodopsin genes in marine microbes suggest such genes are 'cosmopolitan', wandering among bacteria (or archaea) as environmental pressures dictate.

EDITED DUE TO COPYRIGHT RULES

Further reading
Frigaard, N., Martinez, A., Mincer, T. & DeLong, E. Nature 439, 847–850 (2006).
Sullivan, M. et al. PLoS Biol. 4, e234 (2006).
Pedulla, M. et al. Cell 113, 171–182 (2003).
Vetsigian, K., Woese, C. & Goldenfeld, N. Proc. Natl Acad. Sci. USA 103, 10696–10701 (2006).

[mzmolly]

86. Very interesting to see scientific exploration of how "all things are related."

Thanks for the summary. :hi:

[Barrett808]

92. My pleasure. It's fascinating stuff. n/t

[Ilsa]

48. I read last year or earlier that there is a vax for the shingles now.

I might get it, if the recent history for it looks good. I had chicken pox as a ten year old.

My kids had the vax, and my oldest son got a mild case a couple of years ago anyway the year after getting the vax.

[CountAllVotes]

18. well I had the chicken pox

so I'm immune. All of this vaccine sh*t is driving me crazy! :eyes:

:kick:

[ShortnFiery]

20. IF or WHEN you become a parent, it will be sure to rear it's ugly head again.

;) :hi:

[OhioChick]

21. On the topic of vaccines.....

I'd love to hear thoughts on Meningococcal vaccines. Good/Bad. They're not mandatory here, but recommended. Not sure which way to go.

[hedgehog]

24. My kids all got/ will get theirs before leaving for college

I don't want to be the parent getting the call that the "flu" my kid had turned out to be something a little more deadly.

BTW - my kids always get their flu shots. More than one has watched their friends miss one or two weeks of classes because of catching the flu.

[OhioChick]

44. Thanks for the advice.

It's much appreciated. I'm leaning toward getting the shot for the reasons that you cited.

[Ilsa]

49. I also think it is a good idea, as well as taking

the flu shot each season when you can. Staying well can help your GPA.

[antigop]

22. So, uh, is anyone questioning the timing of the release of this info? n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

46. Apparently, no.

Although it is an interesting coincidence.

[antigop]

50. A coincidence? Oh, really? n/t

[kestrel91316]

23. IMHO, childhood diseases are with us for a biological reason,

which we are only now beginning to understand.

[hedgehog]

25. Yeah - the biological reason is that we are tempting hosts for

viruses and bacteria. A lot of kids used to succumb to drinking contaminated water (and still do in the third world). I imagine the survivors were pretty resistant to intestinal organisms, but I still want clean water!

[kestrel91316]

38. The reason I say this is, it's become clear that eliminating our

old friends, the GI parasites, appears to have greatly increased the incidence of autoimmune GI disease (Crohn's/IBD/ulcerative colitis). There is clear evidence that experimental infection with the porcine whipworm leads to near-miraculous remission of Crohn's disease in most test subjects.

Viral infections probably provide some similar benefit. We don't know it all by a long shot.

[mzmolly]

65. I agree.

Also, human vaccines are linked with auto-immune issues as well.

[depakid]

33. Population control is on the top of my list....

Culling the herd, so to speak so it doesn't overshoot, destroy its habitat and starve.

[mzmolly]

26. Gosh, this what all the so called "anti-vaccine" people said all along.

People were concerned that this vaccine could do more harm than good in the long run. I wonder if they'll come up with a new name for chicken pox in older persons now? Might help them out statistically?

"If you're unvaccinated and you get it later in life, there's a 20-times greater risk of dying compared to a child, and a 10 to 15 times greater chance of getting hospitalized,"

Info from the NVIC on Chicken Pox:

http://www.909shot.com/Diseases/chickenpox%20facts.htm

How Effective is Chickenpox Vaccine?

All vaccines only provide temporary immunity. Only recovery from natural chickenpox disease will provide lifelong immunity.] When the chickenpox vaccine was licensed for public use in 1995, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) estimated that it was 70 to 90 percent effective in preventing disease. A recent Centers for Disease Control (CDC) study (Dec. 2002) reported that "the effectiveness of the vaccine was 44 percent against disease of any severity and 86 percent against moderate or severe disease." Some are suggesting a second dose of chickenpox vaccine may be needed. Another study in 2002 confirmed that adults exposed to natural chickenpox disease were protected from developing shingles and that there is concern that mass vaccination against chickenpox may cause a future epidemic of shingles, affecting more than 50 percent of Americans aged 10 to 44 years.

Can Chickenpox Vaccine Cause Injury and Death?

Yes. Between March 1995 and July 1998, the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) received 6, 574 reports of health problems after chickenpox vaccination. That translates into 67.5 adverse events per 100,000 doses of vaccine or one in 1,481 vaccinations. About four percent of cases (about 1 in 33,000 doses) were serious including shock, encephalitis, thrombocytopenia (blood disorder) and 14 deaths. The VAERS data has led to the addition of 17 adverse events to the manufacturer's product label since the vaccine was licensed in 1995, including secondary bacterial infections (cellulitis), secondary transmission of vaccine virus infection to close contacts, transverse myelitis and Guillain Barre syndrome (brain disorders) and herpes zoster (shingles). There have been documented cases of transmission of vaccine virus from a vaccinated child to household contacts, including a pregnant woman. A study in 2002 confirmed that adults exposed to natural chickenpox disease were protected from developing shingles and that there is concern that mass vaccination against chickenpox may cause a future epidemic of shingles, affecting more than 50 percent of Americans aged 10 to 44 years.

Should Chickenpox Vaccine Be Mandated?

No. The majority of children who recover from chickenpox disease do not suffer complications and they are left with lifelong immunity to the disease. The chickenpox vaccine only gives temporary immunity and leaves children vulnerable to disease later in life when complications from chickenpox can be much more serious. Vaccine reaction reports suggest that the vaccine is more reactive than it was thought to be before licensure and there are too many outstanding questions about the true adverse event profile of this live virus vaccine. Parents should have a choice about whether or not to vaccinate their children with the chickenpox vaccine.

Here's the CDC sales pitch: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/diseases/varicella/

Printable version. Many adults think that varicella (chickenpox) is a mild illness and one that does not need to be prevented through vaccination. But chickenpox can be dangerous and even deadly...

The CDC also equates the harm for children and adults by insinuating that death is an equal risk in both groups:
5. Can a healthy person with varicella die from the disease?

Yes, many of the deaths and complications from chickenpox occur in previously healthy children and adults, healthy people and those ill.

From 1990 to 1994, before there was a vaccine available, there were about 50 chickenpox deaths in children and 50 chickenpox deaths in adults every year; most of these persons were healthy or did not have a medical illness (such as cancer) that placed them at higher risk of getting severe chickenpox.

The CDC, full of shit, once again.

[gravity]

35. It still doesn't mean the vaccine is bad

If fewer people in the population have the disease to begin with, then it is less likely to spread to the adults anyways. It still could be doing more good than harm overall.

Maybe they should just vaccinate those who are over a certain age, so the youth can build immunity the natural way, but that could make it more prevalent and more likely to spread to the adults, so I don't really know whats best to do.

I still jokingly resent the kids who don't have experience chicken pox growing up anymore. Back in the day, we purposely contracted chicken pox because it was good for us. Kids today have have it so easy. :evilgrin:

[depakid]

37. With single payer healthcare, this wouldn't be even be a problem

Regularly scheduled checkups with your GP -and regular boosters and such. Just like the screenings and other things that so many Americans now neglect and people in other countries do as a matter of course (and take for granted).

Like so many public health matters, the trouble lies with the dysfunctional American "system" and not with the vaccines.

[mzmolly]

58. Chicken pox isn't much of a "problem" for most.

The vaccine was a sham from the beginning.

[WindRavenX]

40. So are people suggesting we stop vaccinating people against this?

Seems to me it's just like a hepatitis shot where you need a booster shot X number of years after your initial shot.

[ebayfool]

57. An excellent source for questions like this (imho) ...

or just to get a good general education on vaccines is:

National Network for Immunization Information (NNii)

They have a searchable site, so there's a lot to research there.

(NNii) Vaccine Information


I've seen a lot of this stuff getting linked to lately:
(NNii) Vaccine Misinformation

(NNii) Characteristics of Anti-vaccination Web Sites

(NNii) Evaluating Information on the Web
http://www.immunizationinfo.org/parents/evaluatingWeb.cfm

-------------------
Some basic info from their site:

(NNii) Our Mission

The National Network for Immunization Information (NNii) is an affiliation of the Infectious Diseases Society of America, the Pediatric Infectious Diseases Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Nurses Association, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the National Association of Pediatric Nurse Practitioners, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the University of Texas Medical Branch, the Society for Adolescent medicine and the American Medical Association.


NNii Funding

Donations
Neither NNii nor its sponsoring corporation, I4PH, receive funding from either vaccine manufacturing companies or the Federal Government. You can help NNii deliver up-to-date, science-based information to everyone who needs it.

Donations to NNii are tax deductible because the Internal Revenue Service has determined that I4PH is exempt from federal income tax under section 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code as an organization described in section 501(c)(3). For more information please call [phone].

NNii Editorial Board

All the information on NNii's Web site is reviewed to ensure that it is scientifically accurate and up-to-date. Several immunization experts serve as an editorial board for NNii.

Martin G. Myers, MD, Editor
Professor of Pediatrics and Preventive Medicine and Community Health, University of Texas Medical Branch

Walter A. Orenstein, MD
Associate Director, Emory Vaccine Center
Director, Emory Program for Vaccine Policy and Development

Carol J. Baker, MD
Professor of Pediatrics, Molecular Virology & Immunology, Baylor College of Medicine
Texas Children's Hospital Foundation Chair in Pediatric Infectious Diseases

John D. Shanley, MD
Professor of Medicine, University of Connecticut Health Center
Director, Division of Infectious Diseases UCHC

Richard D. Clover, MD
Dean, School of Public Health and Information Sciences, University of Louisville

José Ignacio Santos, MD
Director General, Hospital Infantil de México, Mexico City
Professor of Pediatrics, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Patsy Stinchfield, RN, MS, CNP
Director, Infectious Disease/Infection Control, The Children's Immunization Project, Children's Hospitals and Clinics, Minnesota

Diego Pineda, MS
Science Writer, Immunizations for Public Health


NNii Steering Committee
The plans and activities of the National Network for Immunization Information are conducted under the direction of a national steering committee. Members of the NNii Steering Committee are:

Samuel L. Katz, MD
Professor and Chairman Emeritus of Pediatrics, Duke University (Co-Chair)

Louis W. Sullivan, MD
President Emeritus, Morehouse School of Medicine (Co-chair)

Louis Z. Cooper, MD
Professor Emeritus of Pediatrics, Columbia University

Martin G. Myers, MD
Professor of Pediatrics and Preventive Medicine and Community Health, Associate Director for Public Health Policy and Education, Sealy Center for Vaccine Development, University of Texas Medical Branch (Executive Director)

Lawrence R. Stanberry, MD, PhD
Professor and Chairman of Pediatrics and Director of the Sealy Center for Vaccine Development, University of Texas Medical Branch

Bruce B. Dan, MD
Adjunct Associate Professor, Department of Preventive Medicine at the Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, and Adjunct Professor and Clinical Associate Professor at the School of Public Health & Health Sciences, University of Massachusetts Amherst

Stanley A. Gall, MD
American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

Alan Kohrt, MD
American Academy of Pediatrics

Richard Clover, MD, FAAFP
American Academy of Family Physicians

Edgar K. Marcuse, MD, MPH
Professor of Pediatrics, Children's Hospital and Medical Center, Seattle

Dennis L. Murray, MD, FAAP
Pediatric Infectious Diseases Society

Georges Peter, MD
Professor of Pediatrics, Brown Medical School

Gregory A. Poland, MD
Director, Mayo Vaccine Research Group, Mayo Clinic and Foundation

William Schaffner, MD
Professor and Chair, Department of Preventive Medicine, Vanderbilt University Medical Center

Thomas E. Stenvig, RN, MS, MPH, CNAA
Associate Professor, College of Nursing, South Dakota State University

Patricia Stinchfield, RN, MS, CPNP
National Association of Pediatric Nurse Practicioners

Patricia N. Whitley-Williams, MD
Associate Professor of Pediatrics, University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School

Jessica Kahn, MD, MPH
Associate Professor of Pediatrics and Director of Research Training in the Division of Adolescent Medicine at Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center

Litjen (L.J) Tan, MS, PhD
Director, Infectious Disease, Immunology, and Molecular Medicine, American Medical Association

[mzmolly]

62. Well can you show me where NVI notes the concerns about Chicken Pox in the OP?

Here is what your first "source" said about the varicella jab:

http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccineInfo/vaccine_detail.cfv?id=11

No mention of the legitimate concerns noted in the OP? Goodness, that's odd. :sarcasm:

However, let's contrast the info from the NVI, with info from the NVIC:

Should Chickenpox Vaccine Be Mandated?

No. The majority of children who recover from chickenpox disease do not suffer complications and they are left with lifelong immunity to the disease. The chickenpox vaccine only gives temporary immunity and leaves children vulnerable to disease later in life when complications from chickenpox can be much more serious. Vaccine reaction reports suggest that the vaccine is more reactive than it was thought to be before licensure and there are too many outstanding questions about the true adverse event profile of this live virus vaccine. Parents should have a choice about whether or not to vaccinate their children with the chickenpox vaccine.

The NVIC was correct, the source you note, on the other hand .....

[ebayfool]

66. It's there, you refuse to see it - Goodness, that's odd.

Hmmmm,

The NVIC
vs.
The NVI ... who is affliated with:

The Infectious Diseases Society of America
The Pediatric Infectious Diseases Society
The American Academy of Pediatrics
The American Nurses Association
The American Academy of Family Physicians
The National Association of Pediatric Nurse Practitioners
The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
The University of Texas Medical Branch
The Society for Adolescent medicine
The American Medical Association

Yeah ... your source sooooo trumps all these guys.:crazy: :silly:
They must ALL be in on the Big Pharma Conspiracy! :tinfoilhat: :freak:
Quick - everybody ... be verrah, verrah skeered! :rofl:

Pfffffft!


Chickenpox Vaccine Loses Effectiveness in Study

Varivax Search

Varicella Vaccine Information

Understanding the Disease
A number of studies have demonstrated that varicella-containing vaccines are effective in preventing disease in large populations of students. However, when chickenpox exposure occurs, breakthrough chickenpox (that is chickenpox lesions in an immunized person) can occur. Most children who are immunized but later develop chickenpox have mild disease, although some may have more typical illness with fever and many lesions. Breakthrough varicella can be contagious. As a consequence, in June 2006, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended a second dose of varicella-containing vaccine for all children.

However, breakthrough infection (i.e., cases of chickenpox after vaccination) can occur in some who have been immunized. Although breakthrough varicella usually results in mild rather than severe illness, some school outbreaks have resulted in some children with more lesions and them also being contagious. For this reason, a second dose of a varicella-containing vaccine is recommended.

Varicella (Chickenpox) Vaccine (9 Articles)

Decline in Chickenpox Deaths
This study shows that the decline in the number of deaths due to chickenpox coincided with the increased use of chickenpox vaccine in the United States.

Chickenpox Immunization and Hospitalization Rates
This study shows that hospitalizations for chickenpox and its complications in the United States have declined significantly as have hospitals costs since the introduction of chickenpox vaccine in 1996.

Contagiousness of Chickenpox in Vaccinated Cases
Persons vaccinated against chickenpox could contract a mild form of the disease if exposed to it, which is known as breakthrough varicella. This study looked at how contagious these breakthrough varicella cases are.

Policy Implications of Breakthrough Chickenpox
This study investigated a chickenpox outbreak that occurred in a Minnesota elementary school where many children were vaccinated.

Impact of a Varicella Vaccination Program
A chickenpox vaccination program implemented in 1995 at the Kaiser Permanente Northwest (KPNW) HMO in Portland, Oregon, significantly reduced the incidence of chickenpox among all children attending the clinic.

Are two doses of varicella vaccine more effective?
A new study showed that children who received two injections of chickenpox vaccine were three times at less risk of developing varicella during the 10-year observation period than those who received one injection.

How effective is varicella vaccine?
A new study shows that varicella (chickenpox) vaccine was effective in preventing disease in a large population of students in Oregon. However, long time since vaccination increased the risk of breakthrough varicella.

Effectiveness over time of varicella vaccine
How effective is varicella (chickenpox) vaccine over time? Researchers have found that although the vaccine’s effectiveness to protect against all chickenpox symptoms decreases after the first year, it is still protective after 8 years.

Chickenpox and life-threatening infections
Children with chickenpox are more likely to have invasive group A streptococcal (IGAS) infections, which can be fatal. A new study suggests that the chickenpox vaccine has reduced the number of IGAS hospitalizations.


The findings
A total of 60 children who received 1 injection and 17 who received 2 injections of vaccine had a breakthrough case of varicella (usually mild chickenpox in vaccinated persons). Among the children who developed a breakthrough case of varicella, the majority had mild disease (less than 50 lesions).

In both groups most breakthrough cases occurred between Years 2 and 5 after vaccination. There were no breakthrough cases of varicella in Years 7 to 10 in the recipients of two injections, but cases continued to occur in recipients of one injection during those years.

Both the one and two dose regimens protected all children from having more than 300 lesions and fever of 102°F or more.

Children who received two injections were three times at less risk of developing varicella during the 10-year observation period than those who received one injection. Antibodies to the varicella virus and protection against varicella persisted for 9 years in all children.

[mzmolly]

68. Sorry, perhaps you can note the pertinent portion for me.

You know where they note the concerns of the disease being spread into the adult population where it is more deadly? All you've done is show me a sales pitch.

On edit the NYT contradicts the "vaccinated kids get a lesser case" mumbo jumbo you posted above: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/health/15pox.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

And when vaccinated children were infected, they tended to be sicker, probably because they were older. “Children between the ages of 8 and 12 years who had been vaccinated five years or more previously were two times as likely to have moderate-to-severe breakthrough disease as were those who had been vaccinated less than five years previously,” the researchers wrote.

And here's what the CDC is saying just before pushing for boosters:

“If you’re unvaccinated - unprotected and you get it later in life, there’s a 20-times greater risk of dying compared to a child, and a 10- to 15-times greater chance of getting hospitalized,” said Dr. Jane Seward of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, who worked on the study.

Gosh the CDC sounds just like the NVIC did years ago?

Perhaps they should have just let Chicken Pox be? But there's not much money in that huh?

Over 90% of adults had LASTING immunity to chicken pox due to exposure as children prior to this vaccine recommendation. Now we are ever dependent on getting boosters, and adults are not as compliant in this regard as children. The end result of mandating this vaccine is counter productive to the goal of saving lives, and I have NO qualms about saying that.

[ebayfool]

72. I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink!

What YOU call a sales pitch/mumbo-jumbo, most people would call listing the creds of their sources. I listed them so that the people that read this, can see & decide for themselves whether they feel the sources are credible ... sorry you have a problem with that. I offered a site for the poster to be able to look for information, I wasn't offering an opinion on the OP's article - nice try at a bait & switch, though! The site I referenced is credible, even though it doesn't link to your fav reference cite - the NVIC & VAERS. NVIC's fav data is gathered from VAERS ... you know, the one that took a claim saying they had a vaccine reaction that turned him into The Incredible Hulk!

The Incredible Hulk!
The chief problem with the VAERS data is that reports can be entered by anyone and are not routinely verified. To demonstrate this, a few years ago I entered a report that an influenza vaccine had turned me into The Hulk. The report was accepted and entered into the database.

Because the reported adverse event was so… unusual, a representative of VAERS contacted me. After a discussion of the VAERS database and its limitations, they asked for my permission to delete the record, which I granted. If I had not agreed, the record would be there still, showing that any claim can become part of the database, no matter how outrageous or improbable.



Don't want one? Don't wanna line the evildoer's pockets? Then don't get one! But that isn't enough for the anti-vaccine crowd. Gotta spread that fear, whoop up that frenzy, stoke the uninformed!


Feel Free To Help Yourself
If that doesn't scratch your itch, feel free to search w/other criteria. I'm not offering this to convert those that don't want to be converted ... just trying to give some useful info to those with still open minds & a genuine need to be armed w/more than just fear sites. Your mileage may (I'm sure!) vary.

But you have a great day, y'hear?

[mzmolly]

73. Agreed we need a better tracking system than VAERS, wonder why the CDC

doesn't improve huh? However, talk about a bait and switch? I didn't realize we were discussing VAERS data.

So you don't consider websites that SCARE people about Chicken Pox "fear sites?" Hmmmmm.

Thanks for giving me an opportunity to prove the dishonesty of vaccine pushers though. Well looky here at what the NVI claimed about the pox vaccine?


NNii’s Comment

This study is reassuring in that protection against chickenpox appears to be long lasting; children who were immunized but who later developed chickenpox had very mild episodes.

Now if that doesn't contradict what's actually happening in the real world huh?

I have a clue I'd like to provide. The organizations you noted as affiliated with the "NVI" all have a financial stake in maintaining high vaccination rates. And, the more the merrier!

[ebayfool]

74. Uh-huh.

Noted - your clue is taken, you consider all of the following as part of your Big Pharma Conspiracy. Oookkkkaaay ... like I said, I'm not trying to convert you. I'm citing reputable links ... which I was certain that we WERE discussing - you chose to label them as something else, have at it. Anyone can read all of it & reach their own conclusions, without ego getting involved. Any other attempts to have an honest dialog w/you would obviously be pointless - I put the links up for others to be able to see.

Keep pumping up the volume ... somebody will hear it.
Maybe even The Incredible Hulk! :scared:


The Infectious Diseases Society of America
The Pediatric Infectious Diseases Society
The American Academy of Pediatrics
The American Nurses Association
The American Academy of Family Physicians
The National Association of Pediatric Nurse Practitioners
The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
The University of Texas Medical Branch
The Society for Adolescent medicine
The American Medical Association

[mzmolly]

75. "I'm citing reputable links"

Reputable is as reputable does. I'd say that "reputable links" claim is a bit iffy under the circumstances?

[mzmolly]

59. Some suggested we never begin knowing this problem would occur and the vaccine

could lead to more deaths.

[LizW]

41. Didn't we know this already?

I know my pediatrician said when the vaccine came out that it was projected to only last about 10 years. My kids were toddlers then. He advised not getting the vaccine and seeing if the kids got chicken pox while in preschool. They didn't, and we got the vaccine when they started kindergarten. I just took my 13 year old for a check up and he had to have the vaccine again.

I really don't mind getting the vaccine. I remember the misery of chicken pox when I was four. It was awful, and if the vaccine keeps kids from having to go through that, then good enough.

[BreweryYardRat]

43. Shit, I've had the chickenpox vaccine.

When I was about nine (I'm eighteen, almost nineteen now). Guess I'd better get re-vaccinated.

[hedgehog]

45. So, get the vaccine every ten years when you get you DTP booster.

Or is it TpD or Tpd or .Dp +T .. Damn scientists, always changing things to improve them.

[pnwmom]

52. We don't know the protection lasts even that long.

Post #7 says that the poster had her children vaccinated "as tots," then 8 years later they developed the disease. How do we know when anyone is vulnerable? Get their antibodies tested every year? Except I've heard that that's not a good measure, either, at least in the case of the Hep B vaccine.

[mzmolly]

69. I wish they'd have left well enough alone. Adults are far less likely

to comply with vaccine recommendations and are far more likely to perish from chicken pox. :(

Here's another story from the NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/health/15pox.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[lynne]

51. Makes me thankful I refused the vaccine for my children -

- they all had the pox - they had fun connecting their dots with calamine lotion - and quickly recovered. No problems then and no concerns about catching it as an adult later or constantly updating shots.

HOWEVER, when I had the pox my adult cousin caught them from me. He was sick as a dog for quite some time.

[pnwmom]

53. You were lucky. My oldest had several hundred blisters on her face alone.

Probably a thousand on her body. So when the vaccine became available for my youngest, I was happy. Now I'm worried that someday he could end up with a worse case than either of the other two -- or he could have a pregnant wife who could catch it.

[antigop]

55. So how long has Merck known this? n/t

[mzmolly]

61. How long has the CDC known this? And, why didn't they know if they claim ignorance?

The NVIC has known about the potential for this issue for quite some time.

[mzmolly]

64. From the New York Times. "VACCINATED CHILDREN SICKER"

In 2004, there were fewer cases — 420 — but 60 percent were in vaccinated children. While 73 percent of the youngsters who became ill in 1995 were under age 7, the rate dropped to 30 percent by 2004 because the children who got chickenpox were older.

And when vaccinated children were infected, they tended to be sicker, probably because they were older. “Children between the ages of 8 and 12 years who had been vaccinated five years or more previously were two times as likely to have moderate-to-severe breakthrough disease as were those who had been vaccinated less than five years previously,” the researchers wrote.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/15/health/15pox.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

My guess is we've got a series of booster recommendations coming? :eyes:

An RN I know sent me the following/and poses a few questions:

In a Minnesota school outbreak, the chickenpox vaccine was found not to be effective in about 44% of the vaccinated children (56% effective with one dose). A vaccinated child brought it to school.

...

Will the chickenpox vaccine immunity also fail after the second dose? Will there be an increase in chickenpox infection in adults with a "20-times greater risk of dying compared to a child, and a 10- to 15-times greater chance of getting hospitalized"?

Before the chickenpox vaccine was licensed in 1995, more then 90% of adults were immune to chickenpox naturally. But now they are hoping for 90% - 95% with 2 doses of an expensive vaccine?

*sigh*

[antigop]

67. Well, color me surprised! Merck has a booster for adults -- approved last May! n/t

[latebloomer]

71. What's really frustrating

is that you can't even find a kid with chickenpox these days to have a "party" with.

You're left hoping your unvaccinated kids will not contract it as adults.

[trudyco]

76. Your best bet is to find a homeschool group - they often

avoid vaccines and they'll pass the info on for a chickenpox party.

[lovuian]

77. I just had my chickenpox titer and Measles Mumps titer drawn

for work... My chickenpox was fine since I had it as a child but I had to have a Rubella because my measles titer was not high enough

It was mandatory

I also got infected with Whooping cough or pertussis

You don't want to see a baby with pertussis its quite scary
I was on heavy duty antibiotics for weeks and coughed for weeks

it sucked

I work in the healthcare industry

Also I will mention shingles is another terribly painful disease thats connected with chickenpox

You can ask your doctor for a titer to see if you need a immunization
I suggest that as a possiblity for some people

[Ms. Toad]

88. Shingles may also be connected with the vaccination,

Based on the research I did when we explored vaccination for my daughter, and my spouse developed shingles (not related to each other - the two incidents were a couple of years apart).

The vaccination uses live virus - which means the virus is introduced into the body and may hang around later and, at this point, no one knows if it can reappear as shingles since the vaccination is too new. The viral shedding from someone newly immunized can also trigger shingles in individuals who had previously had chicken pox and can trigger full blown chicken pox in individuals with compromised immune systems who do not have immunity (one of the warnings given with the vaccination is to avoid exposing elderly or individuals with compromised immune systems because of the risk of triggering shingles and/or full blown chicken pox).

I'm not suggesting anyone should get - or not get - the chicken pox vaccination. BUT, this reinforces my own thoughts - which is that vaccines are not inherently harmless. They need to be tested for an extended period of time to determine the long term consequences (both personal and societal) and that people should carefully review the risks associated with any vaccination v. the disease the vaccination is designed to prevent and make an informed decision - not just concede to the the current all vaccines are inherently good mantra.

[silverojo]

79. Important thing to remember

If you ever have chicken pox in your life, it can resurface as agonizing shingles in later years, if your body is under stress. My aunt got shingles back in 1999, and it was awful for her. (IIRC, David Letterman got shingles, too.)

So that's another reason to help prevent your kids from getting chicken pox.

(I'm not normally a big fan of vaccines, but in this case....)

[mzmolly]

84. It is said that shingles can also occur following vaccination.

Varicella vaccine is a live virus vaccine, and may result in a latent infection, similar to that caused by wild varicella virus. Consequently, zoster caused by the vaccine virus has been reported, mostly among vaccinated children.

The above quote is from the CDC.

[Ms. Toad]

89. It is too early to tell

what will happen with respect to shingles (at least according to the research I did). I suspected that might be the case (that it might create shingles), which is why I was doing the research in the first place when the vaccination was recommended for my daughter.

Fortunately, she contracted the chicken pox on her own (a very mild case) which creates lifelong immunity. Either way, at this point, she would have had the risk of shingles as an adult - I figure one exposure may do less harm than repeated exposure (in the form of booster shots). For me, the possibility of creating a natural immunity tipped the scale against vaccination. Had she been older (making the disease itself more dangerous), the scale might have tipped the other direction.

[mzmolly]

93. I agree with your thinking on this.

:hi:

[KitSileya]

80. A natural immunity can weaken with time too.

A colleague of mine ended up getting the chicken pox again at the age of 54 a few weeks ago - she had had it as a child, and still showed signs of some immunity when tested. We waited with bated breath, but she only had a mild version. We were afraid of shingles and extensive spotting (the mom of a friend had spots on the inside of her lungs when she got it at age 31.)

In Norway, it's traditional to send you kids home to a family that has it, so that they might catch it while still children. We don't get vaccinated against it unless we haven't had it as children.

But then, in Norway, parents have the right to a certain number of days off with pay caring for sick children. And we have health care for all, so a sick child isn't ruinous.

[mzmolly]

83. Very interesting.

Thanks for sharing.

[NuttyFluffers]

81. *yawn*, vaccines need to be updated in time, who's surprised by that?

i never got chicken pox as a child, and i've been heavily exposed to infected people. i've been exposed in my teens and adult life as well. but now that i'm older chicken pox is far more dangerous. so at age 25 i got the chicken pox vaccine. it'll fade in quite a few years, so i'll get an update before then, big deal, life goes on, spares me more pain and suffering.

could it be an issue, possibly a pandemic, if a population gets a vaccination, then they all forget to update? yeah. duh. that's how vaccines work. oh my, what ever should i do? well, do whatever the hell you want, but i'm just going to get my update. could it fail? uh, so much of life can fail already there really is no point bothering with that. should companies be more judicious and careful in their creation? well, shit yeah, they should be more careful and judicious in making my omelet, let alone my vaccine. how the hell is this different than any other regulated product. is it bad it's not always so in USA? uh, yeah, and it's sad that health and food safety standards have become lax under bad politics, but the conceptual preventative method of vaccines is not the problem. if people educated themselves on what to expect, like 'don't expect everlasting miracles,' reports like this would be a yawner.

i guess it's good information for those who don't know. i know i take such things for granted. but then i had a really excellent health education. everything from sex ed to diet, and some from religious private schools, if you can believe that.

[mzmolly]

82. Prior to this vaccine adults had a 90-95% lasting immunity,

so why the need for a costly vaccine to attempt the same?

[hedgehog]

87. Can anyone stand an update?

One of the little girls in my religious ed class had a mild case of chicken pox last week despite being immunized as a baby. Apparently it wore off or never took. Mild as her case was, the little girl she was so distressed that her mother is taking the other kids in for a booster right away.

[noonwitch]

91. I'm glad that I had a bad case of it when I was 8

I had the bumps everywhere, and I mean, everywhere. Up my nose, in my mouth and ears, hundreds on the bottoms of my feet, and in all the unmentionable places.

I will never get them again.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

96. Not

:scared: