Haditha Marine Says He'd Do It Again (charged with killing 18 civilians)

[sabra]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/15/60minutes/main2574973.shtml

Haditha Marine Says He'd Do It Again
Frank Wuterich tells 60 Minutes He's Sorry Iraqi Civilians Were Killed, But Insists He Made Right Decision

(CBS) He's sorry that civilians, including women and children, died when he and his men reacted to an attack that killed a comrade in Haditha, but Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich says today he would make the same decision that caused their deaths.

Wuterich is charged with killing 18 civilians. He led four other Marines also charged with murder. His interview with Scott Pelley, the first time any of them has spoken publicly about that day, is part of a report to be broadcast on 60 Minutes Sunday, March 18 at 7 p.m. ET.

"There is nothing that I can possibly say to make up or make well the deaths of those women and children, and I am absolutely sorry it happened that day," says Wuterich. Despite the outcome, Wuterich insists it was the right decision. "What I did that day, the decision that I made, I would make those decisions again today," he tells Pelley. "Those are decisions that I made in a combat situation, and I believe I had to make those decisions."

One of those decisions, which Wuterich admits to in the interview, was shooting five unarmed Iraqi men in the back. Wuterich says the men were running from a car that had appeared on the scene at about the same time their comrade was killed by a roadside bomb.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. You realize this is his only way

to stay sane--to try and justify his actions. Wonder if he relives that scene again and again in his dreams?

[indepat]

2. Sadly this is what you get when troops are thrown into permanent combat situations in a pre-emptive

war.

[Crayson]

3. That's total war for you.

All those stories of honor and bravery...

When you're in the middle of it you shot at everything that threatens you.
Why? Even the slightest doubt can kill you.

Is that woman a poor innocent woman?
Or has she already lost two sons to the war and wants revenge?
And those children? Are the innocent? Or have they lost their father and taken up his gun and want to settle the debt?

There is NO VISIBLE LINE!

The rules are, when a guy wears the enemy uniform, kill him.
But what about those who don't wear it?
What if the enemy is no army at all?

You end up shooting everything that moves.
That's asymmetrical wars for you.
And the more civilians get killed, the more sons and daughters pick up weapons or suicide bombs.

[Kagemusha]

4. Like Mr. Miyagi from The Karate Kid said...

The best defense is to not be there.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Considering that KSM has officially confessed to everything

It would seem that the military activity in Iraq is being done for sport.

[acmavm]

6. And the leader of Tiger Force and Lt. William Calley probably

thought the same as this guy.

And they were wrong.

[slampoet]

7. If he says he will do it again

...that qualifies him for the Death penalty like nothing else.

[arewenotdemo]

11. Absolutely

And I hope he receives it.

[saigon68]

13. There are lots more like him --- Like Charles Whitman

They will be waiting to exact revenge

1987 — The movie Full Metal Jacket contained a scene in which a USMC drill instructor tells his recruits that Whitman's phenomenal accuracy was a result of his training as a rifleman in the Marines.

Charles Whitman ==

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

Whitman joined the Marines, against his father's wishes, on July 6, 1959. He explained to Fr. Leduc that he had come home drunk several weeks before and his father had hit him repeatedly and pushed him into the family's swimming pool. While Whitman was aboard a train headed towards Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island, his father telephoned "some branch of Federal Government" to have his son's enlistment cancelled, but was rebuffed.<5>

After enlisting, Whitman was accepted into the University of Texas' mechanical engineering program on September 15, 1961 through a USMC scholarship. At the University, Whitman was involved in a "teenage prank" that saw him shooting a deer, dragging it to his dormitory and skinning it in his shower.<6>

[Briar]

8. Let's hope he doesn't have the chance to do it again

unlike the British soldiers who killed an Iraqi hotel receptionist and were "cleared" of the crime. Indeed the officer in charge was promoted and is now training troops being sent to Iraq!

[MasonJar]

9. I am sorry, but he shot women and children and he shot 5 men in the

back because their car arrived on the scene? Maybe they were totally innocent. Why would they drive up after they had detonated a bomb? I am sorry, but I have no sympathy for such behavior. What has happened to us in the US? We were outraged when we found out about Mai Lai (sp), but condone the murder of innocents in a country that we attacked for no reason except greed.

[IndianaGreen]

23. Because of the surge, we now have troops going back for a third tour

and they well be getting ready for a fifth combat tour by the time the next President takes office on January 20, 2009.

This guy got caught. How many ticking time bombs like him are loose out there in Iraq, or walking among us here?

[ShortnFiery]

10. Lock him up and throw away the key ... for he's as dangerous as any pedophile murderer that

many here get all haughty over JUSTICE. Justice is served when this man is removed from society, permanently! :thumbsup:

[ProudDad]

29. So, I guess you don't think this kid is

redeemable.

What's it like to live in a world without mercy?

[superconnected]

12. I guess it comes down to, did the army make this man a murderer

or would he have been a murderer anyway because of his personality?

I bet most of the troops would regret killing civilians - especially children.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. Translation: "I'm sorry I got caught."

:eyes:

He's not expressing real remorse. Real remorse would be, "I should have died rather than killed all those innocent people."

I've actually heard someone say that through sobs.

[YankmeCrankme]

15. correct

"I should have died rather than killed all those innocent people."

You Lydia, have expressed what should have been drilled into every soldier sent to Iraq. The whole purpose of protecting people is that your life should be forfeit before those you are protecting. If our soldiers aren't willing to die protecting Iraqis they shouldn't be there. Nothing burns me more than those that choice the noble professions of protecting people, i.e. law enforcement and soldiers, those lest able to protect themselves, who place their own self preservation over the ones they are supposed to be protecting whether they're their own citizens or not.

I don't buy the "I'm just protecting my squad and trying to keep them alive" argument. If you can't evaluate the threat without resorting to indiscriminate shooting into crowds of people you have no reason to be armed. What if firefighters or rescue workers thought like that, "I know there are children in the building, but I'm just going to keep my crew here...one of them could get hurt trying to save them."

[genie_weenie]

16. I could not disagree with you more.

The military is not designed to help people. the military's job is to kill. This is why we should not have a standing military, to easy for the Plutocratic Ruling class to send it aboard for nefarious purposes, coated in jingoistic patriotism, of course. We, the people, have allowed ourselves to grow lazy and have been frightened enough into having a huge Machine of Death control us.

Our soldiers shouldn't be willing to die for the Iraqis. No way. The phrase most often used is "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6", but it goes deeper. War is not glorious, war does not make boys into men, war does not create heroes. This man was placed in a horrible situation. Possibly, the most horrible. And things happen. Dark things, tragic things, gut-wrenchingly terrible things. And he has been judged for his actions.

What this marine did in Haditha that day was commit murder. He is going to placed in prison for his actions. You can bet no one higher than SSgt will share his fate. And remember the leaders of the Federal Government, Our Betters and Rulers won't spend one second in peril.

But, he is not a Master of War...

[YankmeCrankme]

17. Can't say I disagree with you completely

The military doesn't exist to be a killing machine. That's where the US has gone wrong. We wrap ourselves in violence, death and destruction and enjoy it. Our military was created to protect us and our constitution and when we send it to other countries to protect other people it should be as if they were defending us.

This idea that it's okay to fire weapons indiscriminately into crowds of people, to blow up buildings because you think there might be a "bad guy" there without regard for who else is present is a sick, preverted view of warfare. How I hate to read about 12 "suspected" insurgents killed in raid story. So, it is okay to kill suspected civilians. No proof needed. We don't even bother to find out if they were or not. How great for us.

As for your phrase, the ones that commit these acts seldom actually face 12, who are just as unlikely to give out true justice to those that kill innocents during law enforcement activities or wartime. Then you have the victums of injustice with no recourse beyond a bitter disposition towards those that committed the injustice such that it isn't surprising they eventually decide to have little regard or respect for law, society or those in power



Good weapons are instruments of fear; all creatures hate them.
Therefore followers of Tao never use them.
The wise man prefers the left.
The man of war prefers the right.

Weapons are instruments of fear; they are not a wise man's tools.
He uses them only when he has no choice.
Peace and quiet are dear to his heart,
And victory no cause for rejoicing.
If you rejoice in victory, then you delight in killing;
If you delight in killing, you cannot fulfill yourself.

On happy occasions precedence is given to the left,
On sad occasions to the right.
In the army the general stands on the left,
The commander-in-chief on the right.
This means that war is conducted like a funeral.
When many people are being killed,
They should be mourned in heartfelt sorrow,
That is why a victory must be observed like a funeral.

Lao Tzu

[ProudDad]

30. Nice try

You won't hear that poem in basic training.

You will hear a lot about 'kill, kill, kill' though.

Military training is designed to take young (preferably) boys, strip them of their personality and build them back up into order taking killing machines. Then they send them to combat. Then they drop them back into our streets.

How fucked up is that???


On Edit: Face it, the American war machine is in the business of occupying any country that the U.S. feels is within its "sphere of influence", that is, any area of the world where the resources to feed the capitalist consumption machine lay. "Protecting the Constitution" ain't got shit to do with their mission...

[kiwilover]

24. What Do You Say?

Can anybody say crimes against humanity. I have no sympathy for him or others like him---may he rot in jail until he dies of natural causes. I find it harder and harder to support the troops and this type of mindset which is so prevelant in the U.S. military1111111111111111111

[IndianaGreen]

25. Our Founding Fathers saw a large standing army as a threat to freedom

which is why they wrote the Second Amendment which not only refers to the right of the people to bear arms, but the right of the states to form a well regulated militia.

Rather than dismantling the military colossus we build to defeat the Axis Powers, a series of American Presidents have expanded the national security apparatus on the pretext of protecting us from a variety of evil empires, but in reality, to line the pockets of the military industrial complex.

[genie_weenie]

26. Exactly.

And on the floor of the Congress you can hear, the admiration of that power. The gleeful joy gained at taking trillions of dollars in the last 60 years and funneling it into the pockets of those who sell death.

That is why the following steps must be implemented:
1) Dismantling of the Imperial Military
2) Withdrawl from overseas military bases
3) Increased National Guard, with the caveat that the President or Congress not be able to control it.


Here's an interesting idea I thought about trying to float. The creation of massive and multiple US bases throughout the world and the requirements to maintain them with tax dollars is a violation of the Bill of Rights.

Since military forces live and utilize those bases, they are being quartered and I am forced to pay for it, it is a violation of the 3rd Amendment.

[TankLV]

21. Don't forget this is the mindset they carry when too many of them return to join our local police

forces...

and we wonder why we have the problems we do with the police...

[LiberalFighter]

18. Wuterich used poor judgement being interviewed

Watching the interview right now

[Gin]

19. One interesting thing I heard was....he "volunteered" to go to Iraq.....to experience

war....wonder if he regrets that decision.

[alarimer]

22. Well that makes him kind of sick to begin with

Who wants to "experience" war? Most sane people work to avoid it; they do what they have to do when asked but anything else is jus sick. But then our whole society glorifies war and violence all the time. Anyone who backs down from a fight is a "wuss".

[LiberalFighter]

27. Based on his interview... it doesn't appear that he regretted decisions he made

[w4rma]

20. I agree with his actions at the scene. He shouldn't have been put in that situation at all.

The politicians who defend this war or defend war supporters are to blame for those deaths. He only reacted in the only way he could to have the highest chance of survival.

This happens every single day in Iraq, right now. It just so happens that this guy was caught and his superiors couldn't cover it up.

[ProudDad]

31. I don't agree

that "he reacted the only way he could".

He could have just mounted up and gotten the hell out of there...

[ProudDad]

28. This is the kind of sick person the military

is wonderfully suited to turn out. He's the logical end product of military training. A telling statement when asked what he felt after seeing the dead corporal who drove the blown up vehicle, "I stuffed my emotions and my military training took over."

War is sick, training for war is sick.

There's nothing unusual about this kid, he's exactly what they create...

I felt sick about what he'd done and I felt sick about what had been done to him...