Episcopal Bishops Reject Ultimatum: Bring church to brink of expulsion from Anglican Communion

[DeepModem Mom]

Source: Associated Press

Episcopal Bishops Reject Ultimatum
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: March 21, 2007

NEW YORK (AP) -- Episcopal bishops meeting privately in Texas have rejected demands from the world's Anglicans that they provide an alternate leader for conservatives who oppose ordaining gays -- a move that brings the church to the brink of expulsion from the Anglican Communion.

In the strongest and most direct language yet defending their support for gay relationships, the bishops said that accepting a second leader for traditionalists would violate Episcopal church law and the founding principles of the church.

''We cannot accept what would be injurious to the church and could well lead to its permanent division,'' the bishops said in the resolution.

Last month, Anglican leaders emerged from a meeting in Tanzania with an ultimatum for the U.S. denomination. They gave Episcopalians until Sept. 30 to unequivocally pledge not to consecrate another partnered gay bishop or authorize official prayers for same-sex couples. Otherwise, they said, the church risked a much-reduced role in the 77 million-member Anglican Communion.

As part of the plan, the Episcopalians were told to accept a ''primatial vicar'' for conservatives who said they could not accept U.S. Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori because of her acceptance of gay relationships and liberal theology....

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Episcopalians-Gays.html

[ceile]

1. wow.

Way to show some backbone.

[Wanet]

2. I'm so proud of my church

We don't need to be a part of the Anglican Communion anymore. A lot of these conservatives have never accepted female clergy, and also don't like the fact that the new Presiding Bishop is a woman.

[xxqqqzme]

3. my RW mother, dad, sisters & brother

will be having fits - guess my mom will leave the church (again). She stopped going in the early...mid 60's because of the Episcopal Church's support of civil rights (when I say RW, I mean RW).

[saigon68]

8. Yes have to keep those

Dark skinned people out of there

</sarcasm>

[TygrBright]

4. Good on you, 'pickscopalians! Proving yourselves to be...

...a Church for ALL God's people. Someday a more civilized world will look back and point to this and say, "Here. Here's where they took the risk. Here's where it started."

Religion is capable of doing so much good, for so many people. It has not lived up to that potential but progress was made, steadily, until the mid-20th Century, when the retreat from modernism and the fear of progress drove so many faiths and sects into bitter regression. This small but important gesture may help turn the tide and restart the march of progress.

Maybe someday we'll achieve religion as it should be:

Totally voluntary, welcoming converts but not condemning those who choose other paths --rather, working constructively and cooperatively with them to build a better world.

Providing a matrix for those who are so inclined to search out responses to the unanswerable questions of existence.

Promoting humanity's march toward enlightenment, tolerance, respect for creation, affirmation of each other's humanity, and respect for our individual moral choices.

If so-- if we can finally get there-- this action by the Episcopal Church of America will be remembered as one of the first steps on the road.

appreciatively,
Bright

[xchrom]

7. kicking your reply.

[JerseygirlCT]

16. I do believe we may be called to be leaders in this, Bright

I think it will bring many difficulties, but I agree with you, history will show us to have been the far-seers here.

[knitter4democracy]

5. Oh, great. Now some of them will come into our church.

The last time the Episcopalians had a fight, we got an influx into the Eastern Orthodox Church. We don't need another. I've run into enough homophobes, thank you very much. It just makes things harder for us already here trying to nudge the leadership into loving all of God's people, regardless of language, ethnicity, or sexuality. *sigh*

[JerseygirlCT]

17. You and the RCC for those on the "catholic" side of the

equation. All the "non-denominational" protestant churches for those on the other side.

I have this mental picture of Benedict rubbing his hands together in glee.

He's welcome to them.

[knitter4democracy]

26. He can have them, as far as I'm concerned.

If they come into our church because they want liturgy and the Mysterion, etc., then fine. If they're here out of homophobia or whatever, then they're free to find a new church home.

[JerseygirlCT]

29. I hope whatever home they settle in, they eventually learn

to see their fear-based bigotry for what it is, and understand we're all God's children, every single one of us.

[knitter4democracy]

33. Amen to that.

And it is fear. Don't they know that love casts out fear? It's really all about love, when you boil the faith down to its most basic elements.

[phantom power]

6. Schism! I knew it! Go schism! Go schism!

[TrogL]

12. Damn, you beat me to the punch

A schism has been long overdue.

It's time to throw out the Freepers.

[hedgehog]

9. It's really nothing to joke about, and is as sad as could be.

A lot of parishes are going to be split on this ant there will be a lot of hard feelings. It's scary as hell to me as a Catholic because I can see the same tensions developing between an all male, celibate hierarchal clergy with a small group of supporters and the rest of the Church. Oddly enough, the sisters tend to be the most "liberal" members of them all!

I hate the terms liberal and Conservative. It seems more a split between those who believe in a punitive God obsessed with sexual sins and those who believe in a loving God.

[northzax]

10. wait until the Anglican Communion and Vatican

decide to issue their joint statement later this year. that'll really be fun.

[northzax]

11. uh huh, so who's uh, going to pay the bills then?

although small, the Episcopalian church is insanely wealthy and funds a lot of a activities of the Anglican Communion. it's also only a matter of time, frankly, before the English Anglican Church signs onto the 'homosexual agenda' then we'll have Anglicans without any Anglos. Should be amusing.

[JoDog]

13. Yep,

The American church donates a lot of money to Anglican churches in poorer countries. Story from yesterday's NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/us/20episcopal.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Not only that, but there is the possibility of lawsuits between dioceses and individual parishes. In the Episcopalian church, the diocese usually owns the property a church sits and the building, while the parish owns everything in the building. If a diocese goes one way while a parish goes another, they may end up in court to decide who owns what. Especially in the cases of older and more affluent parishes that have amassed valuable antiques and expensive service gear.

[kwassa]

14. They did the right thing.

I had no confidence that the new Presiding Bishop would handle it right after Tanzania. Let's see what she does now.

[JerseygirlCT]

15. Thank God.

Truly.

The bishops have decided to follow the path of love and inclusion, regardless of the human constructs that might take apart.

If the AC ever becomes more important than the people in the church, it has ceased to have any meaning anyway.

Now it may be up to Rowan Williams... will he actually pull the trigger? Or find more ways to side-step and conciliate with the African Primates while hoping not to piss TEC off too much?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

19. Gosh, you're SO Liberal.

To a fault....

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

21. Gosh, I'm not surprised.

Enjoy your stay.

[MnFats]

22. proud of my church, too. we episcopalians will be fine....the alternative was..

...to kick out our wonderful associate pastor, a lesbian in a committed relationship who was, incidentally, incredibly helpful when a nephew came out to the family. We ain't going there.
....Plus, she's riotously funny.

[MasonJar]

23. That is my church and I am so proud of it. I am actually surprised

that the Anglican Church is taking this stand. It seems they are being led by African bishops.

[gratuitous]

24. Strange, isn't it?

When the conservatives had things all their own way, liberals were told to suck it up -- you're opposing God's annointed. When liberals hold sway, conservatives demand their own leadership, even if nobody's qualified, been called, or anything. And it's not just the Anglicans where this happens, either.

But I’ll face the judgment of the Eternal on the Last Day, and if by some chance God damns me to everlasting punishment for not sufficiently hating creation, I’ll be comfortable with that, and wonder why a story like the woman caught in adultery was included in the Gospel of John, or chapter 13 made it into 1 Corinthians, or that whole fourth chapter of 1 John was included in the canon. Or that niggling little story about the man who asked his two sons to go work in the vineyard. You’d think an almighty and highly judgmental God would have kept those troublesome passages out of the Bible.

[NashVegas]

25. Funny Thing About the Episcopalians

When I was a kid in Catholic school, they showed us a diagram in catechism class.

It was a series of concentric circles, kind of like an archery target, to show how close or far people of each religion were to/from God.

Pagans & atheists were completely outside of the circles.

In the outermost ring were Jews.

In the next ring were Protestants

The next ring in had Episcopalians.

Catholics were, of course, in the bulls eye.


Recently, there was talk of the RC church and the Anglicans reconciling. I'm pretty sure this will put the ixnay on that, at least among the American Episcopals.

[JerseygirlCT]

32. Via media

The middle way.

Or, as some have put it, Catholic lite.

All the liturgy, less of the guilt.

No, I don't see much happening by way of reuniting the RCC and TEC, or even the Anglican Communion. For one thing, the deal seems to revolve around recognizing the pope as supreme leader of the church. That's an authoritarian model we broke away from the church over!

[knitter4democracy]

27. Amen and amen to that!

Couldn't have said it better. Thank you.

[JerseygirlCT]

30. I've often pictured those righteous bigots as the older son

Smug and sure they were doing everything right -- not out of love, but because they just knew that following all the rules would get them what they want.

And horrified and angry when they discover that everyone, yes everyone, will be welcomed and loved by God. No exceptions.

[VegasWolf]

28. Sorry, but as an atheist I am completely missing the picture. What is so awful

about recognizing homosexual relationships? If one believes in an all perfect, all loving God then one would have to agree that the all perfect God made the homosexuals the way they are and the all loving God loves them. I simply don't see the issue.

[JerseygirlCT]

31. It's tough to wrap your brain around, isn't it?

It's using a particular interpretation of scripture (faulty at that) or selective passages from the OT to defend one's innate fear of something one doesn't understand.

I guess the whole idea of homosexuality is so totally foreign to some people it creates this visceral feeling of fear and anger. That then gets covered up in righteous belief. (Said with plenty of sarcasm, of course).

It's truly sad. I even feel badly for the people caught in such unjustified hate.

But I think I feel worse for the people on the receiving end of it.

[VegasWolf]

34. Exactly, Levictus also condemns people who eat lobster but you don't see a church

breaking up over that. This is why we atheists marvel at the twisted logic of some adult people.