Fewer pledge allegiance to the GOP

[RamboLiberal]

Source: LA Times

Public allegiance to the Republican Party has plunged during George W. Bush's presidency, as attitudes have edged away from some of the conservative values that fueled GOP political victories, a major survey has found.

The survey, by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, found a "dramatic shift" in political party identification since 2002, when Republicans and Democrats were at rough parity. Now, 50% of those surveyed identified with or leaned toward Democrats, whereas 35% aligned with Republicans.

What's more, the survey found, public attitudes are drifting toward Democrats' values: Support for government aid to the disadvantaged has grown since the mid-1990s, skepticism about the use of military force has increased and support for traditional family values has decreased.

The findings suggest that the challenges for the GOP reach beyond the unpopularity of the war in Iraq and Bush.


Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-shift23mar23,0,195804.story?coll=la-home-headlines

---

Hoorah! :kick: :bounce:

[Newsjock]

1. Change is in the air

The half-full perspective: Finally! There is hope after all.

The half-empty perspective: Will we ever be able to undo the damage in our lifetimes?

I feel both ways.

[anotherdrew]

2. well, this is nice news. there's still 10% more to peel off the rethugs I think

before it gets near impossible to wean any more away.

[ninkasi]

3. Bush destroys everything he touches

From going AWOL from the TANG, to his failed businesses, to bankrupting the country, starting an illegal war, he has now apparently succeeded in destroying his own party. Heck of a job, Chimp.

[tblue37]

7. The Midas Touch in reverse. Everything turns to caca. (eom)

[Tarheel_Dem]

4. happy to be the 4th.....

i hope this continues thru the end of this miserable administration. i have to admit, i underestimated the american public, but i'm happy to see these results.

[SnowGoose]

5. I don't think support has diminished for traditional family values

Rather, I think, people are beginning to take a broader view of what that phrase means. War, expanding poverty, and environmental destruction are not consistent with the values any healthy family would hold. But peace, justice, civil rights, and respect for nature are.).

[rodeodance]

6. Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007 check it out

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=312

Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007
Political Landscape More Favorable To Democrats

Released: March 22, 2007

Navigate this report
Summary of Findings
Topline Questionnaire Topline Questionnaire

Summary of Findings

View the complete report in pdf format

FigureIncreased public support for the social safety net, signs of growing public concern about income inequality, and a diminished appetite for assertive national security policies have improved the political landscape for the Democrats as the 2008 presidential campaign gets underway.

At the same time, many of the key trends that nurtured the Republican resurgence in the mid-1990s have moderated, according to Pew's longitudinal measures of the public's basic political, social and economic values. The proportion of Americans who support traditional social values has edged downward since 1994, while the proportion of Americans expressing strong personal religious commitment also has declined modestly.

Even more striking than the changes in some core political and social values is the dramatic shift in party identification that has occurred during the past five years. In 2002, the country was equally divided along partisan lines: 43% identified with the Republican Party or leaned to the GOP, while an identical proportion said they were Democrats. Today, half of the public (50%) either identifies as a Democrat or says they lean to the Democratic Party, compared with 35% who align with the GOP.

[Kolesar]

14. 2 B A Democrat is Kewl

The attitudes of social conservatism and gay-bashing are largely to be found in the oldest of voters. They are being replaced by the children of the baby boomers who taught their children to be openminded and respectful of people who are different.

The Age of Aquarius spawned some lovely children.

[Odin2005]

57. Yep, us Millenials are supposed to be the most tolerant and socially liberal generation in history.

:beer:

[Hekate]

8. I agree. I vote my values, & the party that best expresses them is Democratic

I think there are an awful lot of betrayed Republican "little people" in this country. If the average Democrat couldn't see this catastrophe coming 10 years ago, how could they? They voted their party -- what they thought their party stood for -- and they've been as betrayed as the rest of us.

I am glad to see signs of awakening.

Hekate

[salin]

11. It is ironic - the egotistical 'genious' whose goal was to create

a 'one-party' dominated government 'for the next generation' (or the 'next fifty years' iirc) - Mr. Rove - is at the very heart of destroying his party and likely brining an opposite reality. Maybe not a one-party domination for so many years - but a devastated party - that because of its continued arrogance of power (current actions) keeps making it likely that their party will lose big in an increasing number of future elections. About time.

[robinlynne]

9. then why are they still in power? why can't people rise up? at least against the war.

[GainesT1958]

10. Well, when Andrew Sullivan...

Says it may be the best thing for his party to lose the next presidential election, you get a pretty good idea just how far things have fallen for them.

He went on to add that he thought Rove was a disaster, and that Dub was as well. He could already see Rove's "divide and conquer" strategy coming back to bite his fellow Repubs on the butt--beginning with last year's losses.

The good news is that most of his conservative compatriots don't understand just what they're making themselves--and the "values" they espouse--look like in the eyes of the average voter. I guess the bad news is what they're busying themselves doing to us until "it's time for them to go".

Hmmm..."it's time for them to go"...wouldn't we love to hear that phrase uttered a few more times over the next year...by its creator!?:eyes:

B-)

[EFerrari]

12. Thank you! I was looking for this!

[City Lights]

13. This is fantastic news!

You've made my day with the first thread I clicked on!

:bounce: :party: :applause: Heck, I'll even :beer: though it's not yet 7:00 AM! :7

[AlCzervik]

15. Reversal of fortunes for GOP

Source: The sacramento bee

President Bush's dream of leaving a Republican majority as his political legacy is slipping from his grasp.

A new poll released Thursday confirms that the country's political landscape has turned sharply against Bush's party and toward the Democrats on such bellwether issues as the use of military force, religion, affirmative action and homosexuality.

"It's going in the other direction," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center, which released the survey. "The Republicans have really suffered a number of setbacks. It's not going toward a Democratic majority. But there's no more progress toward a Republican majority."

"But Democrats shouldn't start popping the champagne yet," said Steven Schier, a political scientist at Carleton College in Minnesota.

"This group that leans Democratic is still very much up for grabs, depending on candidates and events."

A durable political majority -- like the one Republicans had for decades after the Civil War or that Franklin D. Roosevelt built for the Democrats in the 1930s and 1940s -- might be a quaint notion in an era in which a third of voters refuse to align with either party for more than one election.

Today, 50 percent of Americans call themselves Democrats or lean that way, and 35 percent call themselves Republicans or lean that way.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/111/story/142603.html

---

Good news.

[saltpoint]

16. You'd think the nomination of Harriet Miers ALONE would be enough to

swell the GOP's ranks.

[bemildred]

17. This is what happens when you screw up "Big Time!" nt

[KansDem]

45. This is what happens when you put the loser in the White House

Future Supreme Court justices take note: never let party loyalty interfere with the people's voice.

[natrat]

18. woudnt count on it

people dislike other districts' republicans but vote for there own

[jody]

19. "group that leans Democratic is still very much up for grabs" and the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is

one of the critical, divisive issues.

We Dems should aggressively publicize our party platform that said in 2004, "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do."

See http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

Democratic political figures who want to ban handguns or all guns should not use their media gathering attention to mislead independent voters into believing the Democratic Party is a bunch of gun-grabbers.

We should also emphasize that prominent Republicans like Nixon, Reagan, Michael Bloomberg, Rudy Giuliani, and John McCain were/are gun-grabbers.

[Bandit]

22. Hogwash

Liberals are for a safe country for their children and themselves. When a country is swamped with guns it is hardly a safe place as is evidenced by the extremely high gun crime rate in this country. You prefer your assault weapons over our childrens safety it would appear. No one wants to take away your guns. We just want responsibility and a safe environment. I grew up a hunter and never once had a need for an assault weapon nor any cop killer bullets...

[DanWithAngel]

26. did you ever need a handgun?

do you support my right to defend myself with a handgun. no assault strawman needed here.

i am here because i have dealt with the deadliest human society has to throw my way. a person intent are doing harm to another does not care about arbitrary gun laws. they want their pound of flesh and they will use any means to get it.

[devilgrrl]

27. "i have dealt with the deadliest human society has to throw my way"

I'd hate to be you.

[DanWithAngel]

29. it will take time

i have hope that the better people in life will make this all go away and get back to normal. remembering what normal was is the hard part. there are real sick people out there.

[Bandit]

30. and a lot of those really sick people have guns

America is one sick country. We can look to Iraq to see how well an armed citizenry keeps one safe.. Look out code orange the terrorist are coming grab your guns....Let's kill something...

[DanWithAngel]

34. i have no real idea what you are hinting at

the only orange in my recent memory is the uniform i wore for six days
while the zealous DA and magistrate took their time sorting out the fact
that a madman shot at me through my front door before i stopped him from killing me.

there is nothing funny or joking about this trauma i am dealing with.

[Frank Cannon]

42. Strange that YOU should be the one to wear the uniform...

when it was supposedly "the deadliest human society has to throw (your) way" that allegedly attacked you. Maybe the court system did not take your basic human goodness into account.

Can you elaborate on your experience?

Welcome to DU, by the way, and enjoy your stay.

[DanWithAngel]

44. Here is a link to my situation

I hope to enjoy a stay among those that I can iscuss my Democratic and humanistic feelings among. Right now I need people I can trust and allow me to speak my mind.

http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=20441

[NickB79]

46. Try not to let some of the flak here get to you

There are a few other people here, myself included, that have had to use a gun in self-defense. The vast majority of people here at DU are well-intentioned, but some unintentionally hit nerves when they don't understand what it's like to have to use violence in defense of your own life. Hang in there, and welcome to DU :hi:

[DanWithAngel]

48. thanks

for one of the sincere welcomes here.

When her and I first me in 1980 I knew someday in our lives a Helen of Troy or other life changing moment would come. Ever since my departure from West Virginia many years ago to Vermont in search of work and my inevitable return home here last year my life has been very alive. The rest of the very long story will have to wait until I gather the pieces and write that book all my English teachers said I may need their help in writing.

thanks again.

[Frank Cannon]

49. Thanks for that, and I am sorry for your experience

I can't imagine what that must have been like.

I am an avid sportsman and a strong proponent of our nation's 2nd Amendment rights. You will find a lot of people here who feel the same way I do.

[mitchleary]

28. Huh?

Do you know what you are talking about? Would you tell me what a "cop killer' bullet is? I would think about any bullet would kill a cop, right? Do not give me the answer with handgun ammo in it. The speed/energy is what defeats body armor, not because it is a hollowpoint(which actually would penetrate less due to expansion.
Why do you want to punish responsible gun owners with your draconian laws. If someone is going to commit a crime, I hardly think they worry about the legality of the firearm they use.

Fully automatic weapons(what you call assault weapons)have been illegal for a long time for private citizens to own without a special ATF issued license.

Before you start condemning something you know very little about, why not do a little research or ask someone who knows. Either that or we will have to give you the Bill O'reilly research award. ;)

[MGKrebs]

33. By that logic we wouldn't have any laws at all.

I mean, if the criminal element is going to ignore the law anyway, why should we bother with any "punishment" for the rest of us? Who needs traffic laws, or why ban hand grenades?

As a matter of fact, we should remove all laws about who gets to vote. Anyone who wants to commit fraud will do it anyway. And you know what, it REALLY pisses me off that I can't destroy my neighbors bigass stereo because it plays too loud even though there is an ordinance. And you know what? The criminals keep breaking into the store down the street where I work. Why should that be illegal? It is such a huge hassle to actually have to pay for stuff, or for that matter, even use the door!

[mitchleary]

38. Now that is just ludicrous

I am glad to see you took the extreme position. Black and white. For or against. With that rational no one would have a driver's license as cars are too deadly. There are guns that are illegal and most people abide by those laws(fully automatic weapons, etc). When a person throws around terms like "cop-killer bullets" and "assault weapons" they have no idea what they are talking about or they are using those words the same way the Repukes use "death tax" or "clean skies". Which group are you in?
Blaming all the wrongful deaths on guns is like blaming it all on cars. Most people will use both responsibly but there is always a groups idiots who will joyride, drink and drive etc.

I do not know how target shooting would lead me to need a hand grenade.

[MGKrebs]

43. You are the one that is supporting your argument by saying

that since criminals ignore the law anyway, we might as well not make it illegal.
There may be reasons to not make things illegal, but that ain't one of them, in my opinion.

[jody]

35. Do you know the Democratic Platform says "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right

to own firearms, and we will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists by fighting gun crime, reauthorizing the assault weapons ban, and closing the gun show loophole, as President Bush proposed and failed to do."

See http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platform.pdf

Those who would ban handguns or all guns do not support the Democratic Party position.

[TommyO]

36. It's not a crime to hold an opinion differing from the 2004 platform

[jody]

55. I did not say it was a crime but it is a lie to represent your personal views as the views

of the Democratic Party.

[benEzra]

40. I would gently suggest to become informed on the issue a bit...

rather than simply repeating MSM talking points.

"Cop-killer bullets" were banned in 1986, by a law that gun owners were by and large OK with. Not an issue.

Your hunting rifle or shotgun may BE an "assault weapon":


preban Marlin Model 60 squirrel rifle, "assault weapon" under New Jersey law (5-year felony)



Benelli turkey hunting shotgun (12-gauge), "assault weapon" under H.R.1022 (current) and S.1431 (2004)



Ruger mini-14 Ranch Rifle, "assault weapon" under H.R.1022 and S.1431


In addition to the above, ANY shotgun that holds more than 3 or 5 shells, any rifle or pistol than holds more than 6 or 10 rounds, any self-loading rifle or shotgun with a handgrip that sticks out, or any shotgun that takes a detachable magazine, is an "assault weapon" to the repubs at the Brady Campaign.

[Tempest]

23. The right to keep and bear arms is not a critical or divisive issue

The fact is, it isn't even in the top ten list of issues when people are asked what is important to them.

Also, a majority of Americans support some form of gun control.

[Bandit]

31. It is no fair using reason and common sense

We need to be rabid about this....

[jody]

32. Gore and Clinton both say RKBA was a critical in Gore's loss. n/t

[Tempest]

37. Cite?

That's news to me and would like see direct quotes from them saying this.

[NickB79]

47. Here is an Alternet article

http://www.alternet.org/election04/19223/

"Last month, while promoting his new book on The Charlie Rose Show, Bill Clinton didn't mince words when explaining why Gore lost in the former president's home state: "I'll tell you exactly what happened in Arkansas... The NRA beat him in Arkansas. The NRA and Ralph Nader stand right behind the Supreme Court in their ability to claim that they could put Bush in the White House."

Guns played a major role in securing Bush victories in Arkansas, West Virginia, Tennessee, Florida and New Hampshire (whose license plates succinctly capture the libertarian streak in the gun rights' rank and file: "Live free or die"). West Virginia is historically a Democratic state. Before 2000, Democrats had carried the state in three consecutive presidential elections, five of the past six and eight of 10."

[Tempest]

50. The article doesn't say what the poster claimed

Clinton talked about losing Arkansas, which only has 5 electoral votes and most likely wouldn't have gone to Gore anyway.

And the rest is only supposition unsupported by data.

Gore lost Florida more because of voter fraud than from the gun issue.

[jody]

56. "From President Clinton's autobiography" at DU link below.

48. From President Clinton's autobiography:

Have a nice day. :hi:

[maxrandb]

20. Now I Understand

"50 percent of Americans call themselves Democrats or lean that way, and 35 percent call themselves Republicans or lean that way."

That must be why there's nothing but hate-wing Republic radio talk shows on the radio 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. The CEO's and share holders of our major radio conglomerates must be trying to appeal to the majority of Americans.

Pssst, don't tell Rush and Bush this...they still think they have a "Man-Date".

[gratuitous]

25. Yeah, and it's not trending toward a Democratic majority

So stop saying that!

[Sapere aude]

41. Dems cannot be the type of audience the right wingers are. Most of them need an authoritarian perso

to tell them what to think. The talk show host fills in for that person. We are not like that. We don't tune in to AAR to find out what our position on things should be. I don't here Dems repeating talking points they hear from some noise machine. Everything some right winger says to me about an issue I have already heard from some right wing media source. It's as if they can't even phrase an idea in their own words.

[On the Road]

21. And He Thought it Would Last for a Thousand Years

[Rydz777]

24. Which way the wind is blowing

You can tell which way the wind is blowing by reading the current issue of "National Review" (I don't subscribe; I read it at the library.) It's editor, Rich Lowry, does a devastating analysis of Bush's management style in an article titled "A Question of Competence."

Here a a few of the points:
- "...not reacting quickly enough when things began to go wrong."
- "...failed to create a sense of accountability."
- "...has seemed to have a much stronger sense of ends than means, and neglected the relation between the two."
- "...voters will be looking in 2008 for someone who doesn't run the government like George W. Bush."

When this bastion of conservatism deserts him, Bush - probably the worst President in U.S. history - is truly isolated.

[stanwyck]

39. But, but, but...Bill Kristol in last week's TIME magazine

said that Republicans were "sitting pretty".
And Kristol is never wrong, is he? Wait. He did cheerlead for the Iraq war, citing all those weapons of mass destruction. And he did claim Hussein was in cahoots with Al Queda, despite no proof. And he did believe we'd be greeted as liberators...and that the war was going, in Ann Coulter's words, "swimmingly".
Our poor little neocon. He helped blueprint this current mess for the Republicans, didn't he? Right down to the "we need our own Pearl Harbor" in order to get the country to bow down to our wishes. And he got it on 9-11. And then he got his invasion and hopes of colonization of the Mideast, just like the neocons wanted. But, then, the plan feel apart. And so is his party.
What an ass.

[Grandrose]

51. Well...isn't that special

and about time the American people wake up!!!!
:bounce: :thumbsup: :woohoo: :applause: :patriot: :kick:

[CJCRANE]

52. Um, this is a big indication of election fraud n/t

[Peace Patriot]

53. I pledge allegiance to George Bush, and to the United States of Corporate America,

...for which He stands, one holding company, under God, which art in Heaven, hallowed by thy name...oops!

You mean, Republicans are becoming Americans again?

"Public allegiance to the Republican Party has plunged during George W. Bush's presidency..."--LAT

Ah, just in time for the '08 elections.

The bullshit will be that we have to "return" to "true" conservative values. The reality is that "true" conservative values began their plunge into fascism under Reagan, with the looting of the Savings and Loan institutions, the re-write of the tax code--end of the progressive tax system--to favor the rich, the busting of the Air Traffic Controllers union, and the outrageously illegal war on Nicaragua in defiance of a law passed by Congress. These RADICAL policies became known as "conservatism"--although they couldn't be any less conservative, in any meaningful sense of the word. And they led straight to Bush, with a little corporate re-writing of the trade laws in between (Clintonism), that began the outsourcing of all our jobs, and the destruction of US manufacturing. Then came the fascist coup de gras--Bush/Cheney and the looting of the federal treasury, destruction of the US military for corporate resource wars, slaughtering of tens of thousands of people for their oil, torturing prisoners, ripping up of the Constitution, gouging Americans on everything from gas costs to medical care to credit card usury, and electronic voting owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations with not a peep of objection from the Democratic Party leadership on the destruction of our election system. All we manufacture now is war--a fascist wet dream.

Our democracy--transparent vote counting, will of the people, and all that--our strong middle class, our once topnotch educational system, our upwardly mobile poor, our decent social services, our topnotch government services such as emergency assistance during disasters, our once functioning and often excellent medical system, our relatively uncorrupt justice system, our principles of government accountability and responsible corporate citizenship, our environmental and consumer/worker safety regulatory system, our strong labor rights laws, and all the hallmarks of a good society are now under siege or destroyed--and the American people are now saddled with a $10 TRILLION deficit, by design, due to multiple tax cuts for the super-rich and war profiteering.

These so-called "conservatives" seem to have set out to destroy the USA. That is what their mind-bogglingly hypocritical "philosophy" has led to. Their blather about "small government" and "a free market" was never a political philosophy at all--it was a criminal plan, worthy of the "Mafia," for massive theft and bullying. Now they want us to forget all that, and vote for "real" conservatives. They want us to cut all social programs--to retain tax cuts for the rich--but keep the US military in the Middle East forevermore (and, in this, they are no different than their counterpart hypocrites, the "Blue Dog" Democrats--all of these types (s)elected by Diebold and ES&S secret vote counting machines, if the truth were known).

Ha-ha-ha! Well, if we can ever restore transparent vote counting, I think the American people will demonstrate just what they think of Corporate Rule in the guise of "conservatism." I think we're going to start with pulling the charters of some of these bad actor corporations and seizing their assets for the common good (why do you think Halliburton relocated to the UAE, and put themselves under the protection of the sheiks of Araby? ). Then we're going to remove profiteering from our medical system. Then we're going to restore the progressive tax system. Then we're going to build a truly free and competitive and SUSTAINABLE USA, on the model of the leftist (majorityist) democracies in South America and Europe--decent societies with good governments, that utilize the talents and creativity of all of its people, and that know what social justice is FOR. What they know--and what the Bushitters and their "pod people" in the media, and the corporate Democrats don't want the American people to know--is that you cannot have prosperity without social justice. All you have is looting. If you allow business consortiums and the super-rich to loot everything and everybody, soon there is nothing left to loot. Soon your society dies. And, in this case, you also lose the very planet we all live on.

True conservatism CONSERVES--the forests, the water, the fish, the birds, the people and their brain power, energy and loyalty, community strength, community health, the law, business and political ethics, gains in human rights and dignity, and all the things that promote the good life for this generation and for all future generations. The Republicans have shown themselves to be radical fascists and thieves. They are not conservatives, and their hypocritical "conservative" bleating--trumpeted by their corporate news monopolies--has served us very ill, indeed. And the Democrats who mimic them--and who tout that radical fascism by other names--are equally culpable. ALL "conservative" lies need to be rejected, in favor of good government and a good society, which I am confident that the American people will do, if

and when

we restore transparent vote counting.

[Peace Patriot]

54. Some facts for the L.A. Times to ponder in their framing of this article:

"The survey, by the nonpartisan Pew Research Center..., found a "dramatic shift" in political party identification since 2002, when Republicans and Democrats were at rough parity. Now, 50% of those surveyed identified with or leaned toward Democrats, whereas 35% aligned with Republicans." --LAT

This "dramatic shift" toward the Democrats surged in 2004, before the election, with the Democrats blowing the Republicans away in new voter registrations, nearly 60/40. This calls for an investigation of that elections, the most stinkeroo event in this country since Cheney's secret energy meetings--and that's saying something.

-----

"What's more, the survey found, public attitudes are drifting toward Democrats' values: Support for government aid to the disadvantaged has grown since the mid-1990s, skepticism about the use of military force has increased and support for traditional family values has decreased."--LAT

I just want to point out two stats (but there are many more to be found in a review of issue polls over the last several years):

56% of the American people OPPOSED the war on Iraq, before the invasion, and even before Colin Powell's 100% pack of lies to the UN were fully exposed. 56%! That would be a landslide in a presidential election (and probably was).

63% of the American people oppose torture "UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE." May '04. 63%! That is an overwhelmingly progressive view.

And the scumbags in our war profiteering corporate news monopolies would have us believe that these same people voted to keep Bush/Cheney in power. I don't believe it. And I think the evidence points to a Kerry/Edwards victory, and a victory for the people, in so far as we are able to determine, given the 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by rightwing Bushite corporations, that was fast-tracked into our election system, all over the country, between 2002 and 2004, with a $3.9 billion electronic voting boondoggle from the Anthrax Congress.

-----

Just a word about "traditional family values." Definitions are in order here. This is a phony fascist phrase that means intolerance and hatred for gays and for women. I don't know what they measured, or what they asked. But I would challenge any Republican claim to REAL family values, if the criteria are support for education, universal health care and especially support for medical care for babies and pregnant women and the elderly, decent paying jobs for all, family leave, worker safety protection and benefits, safe streets (gun control, prison rehab, hope for the poor), a clean healthy environment, drug and product safety, good homes for all children (including homes provided by gay adoption parents), and planning for the future (which a $10 TRILLION deficit--from war and tax cuts for the rich--makes a bit difficult). A few other REAL family values would be not looting the Savings and Loan institutions (bastions of the middle class), not gas gouging, not energy gouging and looting, not permitting usurious credit card policy, and not touting false "family values" (intolerance and hatred) in place of real ones (love, care, acceptance, tolerance, and protection of the weak).

Were REAL family values offered as a choice in this poll? I don't know if they were. But the framing of the article--that "support for traditional family values has decreased"--makes me suspect that they were not. For instance, I consider gay adoption parents to be exhibiting "traditional family values." Children adopted by gay parents will not spend their youths in orphanages and foster homes. They will be cared for. They will have a stable environment. They will have love and nurturing, and a better chance in life. How is that not "traditional"? The state caring for them ("Big Brother") is not traditional. Not caring for them at all--letting them be neglected, abused, or run wild in the streets--violates every traditional value of home and community. The focus on the sexuality of their adoptive parents is sick and obsessional, and ignores the OBVIOUS "family values" of the arrangement.

Would there have been a place in this survey for me to say that gay adoption IS a "traditional family value"? Or would I have had to answer "traditional family values," yes or no? Since I don't know the answer to this, I won't condemn the survey. But I would offer a caution about LAT framing, and radical fascist twisting of what are really OUR values--those of the progressive majority--into THEIR hatred and intolerance, and the exploitation, by war profiteers and corporate rulers, of values that they have no right to claim, and have never supported in action.