Blair wants to monitor all children for signs of criminality

[Dover]

Source: The New Zealand Herald

Blair wants to monitor all children for signs of criminality
Thursday March 29, 2007
By Nigel Morris

LONDON - Tony Blair faced charges of taking a further step towards turning Britain into a "surveillance state" as he set out plans to monitor all children for signs of criminality, to allow police to collect more DNA samples and to expand the use of CCTV cameras.

He also announced proposals to restrict the activities of career criminals after they are released from prison and to review the operation of the police service.

Critics of the wide-ranging plan said it amounted to a further erosion of civil liberties under the cover of fighting crime.

Most controversial was a proposal to "establish universal checks throughout a child's development" to help "identify those at most at risk of offending"...>


Read more: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10431416

[pepperbear]

1. OMG! Does this mean.....

that if Trevor and Nigel fight in the school yard (as kids often do) they'll be hauled in for psychiatric evaluation BY THE STATE???? Man, I am getting scared of the UK these days. Anyone living over there get a sense as to how this is playing?

:wow:

[Dover]

6. As I recall, Bush wanted something similar (re: psychiatric testing/DNA)

THEY, of course, are the criminals and need the testing...

But there is a big movement toward institutionalizing Big Brother programs, and Britain seems to be surprisingly the worst case I've seen with the U.S. close behind. It seems we have become the evil we, at one time, purportedly fought against (communism, nazis, fascism, dictartorships, in countries like the U.S.S.R., China, etc.)

[The2ndWheel]

21. Why did we fight against them though?

It wasn't because of things like this. It was because they were expanding centers of power that were in competition with our expanding center of power. This type of control is what every center of power competes for. As this type of control is acquired, the center expands. Now that there are no real competing centers of power left(the world is becoming more integrated and identical), all that remains is to increase this type of control within that identical framework.

[WindRavenX]

2. good lord the UK is insane in some areas

NT

[Dover]

37. It's about 'control'.....whether emotions, social behavior, etc.

That is a British 'thing'. Too much personal expression is often considered at odds with social mores and acceptibility. Must keep the dreaded chaos at bay.

[piedmont]

3. They pay too much for their whistle. nt

[aquart]

4. Weren't they getting rid of him?

[Cobalt-60]

5. All they need to do

Is take note of who's cruel to animals.
people who blast a frog with fire crackers for example.
They inevitably graduate to crime against humans.

[Dover]

9. Yeah, they'll probably cull the worst offenders and groom them for government or corporate positions

The sickest of the sick run our country and others. This must be some sort of recruiting program.
:sarcasm:

[jeff30997]

7. George Orwell was a visionary.

Blair is a scumbag.

[Dover]

8. They probably used Orwell's book as a reference guide...n/t

[OKthatsIT]

12. The Nobles are behind all of this. And their bankers.

[Theduckno2]

13. Those children most "at risk" could redeem themselves...

...by informing on those persons most responsible for their criminality, their parents.

Gotta love Orwell.

[Matilda]

10. Oh yes, get them while they're young.

Otherwise they might grow up to be politicians.

[Vidar]

11. Having nothing else left, he tries to out-jerk Bush,

[mtnester]

20. I think it is quite apparent who won the "who jerked on who" contest there

:)

[AJ9000]

14. Better still would be to monitor all politicians for signs of criminality. nm

[BayCityProgressive]

15. how was tony blair ever considered

left wing? He is worse than Lieberman...

[ProudDad]

16. Blair was NEVER considered "left wing"

He's from the DLC wing of the Labor Party...

[bobthedrummer]

33. Of course not-Blair et al. is "New Labour" n/t

[Megahurtz]

36. EXACTLY!!!

:bounce:

[mc jazz]

17. he's doing it all under the cover of 'britishness'

very sneaky,
hey guys, the latest is he's creating new ministries of justice and security?
How Orwellian. I believe he's afraid the people don't share his vision of the world,
one without the death penalty but plenty of wars... no sale Tony, Labour isn't working Maggie was right 30 years too late, lol

[w4rma]

18. New Labor = British New Democrats/British DLC. (nt)

[Nihil]

19. Wonder if it would have caught ...

... Euan's incipient criminality as a result of his career-minded parents ...?

:evilgrin:

[Javaman]

22. Son, today is a big day!! you get bar-coded!!!

Is this some sort of race between nations as to who can closely resemble 1984 first?

Sigh.

There should be an international kicking in the nuts day for the male world leaders by the people of the world.

It would solve so many problems and release so much tension.

[TrogL]

23. and then what?

Is he offering free counselling/treatment/whatever?

He can start with my son. He's a budding con artist.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. We already have that...it's called school

What, did you think you were warehoused all day in an institutional setting so that you could merely learn?

Part and parcel of the modern (which is to say, post 1800) education system is to identify student tendencies, discipline student activity, and classify students according to capacities.

[AnneD]

25. Before we think of doing that here....

we need to remember many of our ancestors were branded as criminals because of their independent thought. What is a crime and who defines a crime. Two kids fight on a playground. One becomes a soldier or policeman or a criminal, the other becomes a diplomat, labour negotiater, a lawyer, or a card carrying member of the NRA. That's as bad as labeling a 16yo boy as a child sex offender because he got caught in the car with his 15 yo girl friend. And I know THAT has happened here already.
This is totally unacceptable. What next Mark of the Beast.

[bemildred]

26. Monitoring stupid politicians seems more likely to be useful. nt

[Nihil]

27. Now *that's* a job for life - guaranteed! (n/t)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

28. When I was in London in 1967, it was a very safe place

We were on a day trip out of London, and due to some minor mix-ups, we weren't going to be back at our B&B (near Clapham Junction) until after midnight. When we phoned the B&B, the landlady said that it was fine; she never locked her doors anyway.:wow:

What happened in between time and now, where London is still safer than the average American city but much more dangerous than it was in 1967, was Thatcherism. According to that ideology, the unions had "too much power" and businesses were "overstaffed." Massive layoffs, factory shutdowns, outsourcing, privatization of as much as possible, raising of university fees, etc. followed. Tony Blair has not only not undone these moves but has continued in the same direction.

An English friend of mine who is about the same age said that the UK used to be a low-wage, low-price country. (The B&B referred to above was 14 shillings or $1.96 per person per night--a bargain price from the U.S. point of view even in 1967.) Now for the working class, it's a low-wage, high-price country.

This means that the poor of today are poorer than the poor of times past, relatively speaking. Prices shut poor and working class youth out of more things than their parents and grandparents were shut out of. The rich still live very well, of course, so this creates resentment and hopelessness.

So the UK, formerly a very safe country, sees rising crime rates. So, sadly, does Japan, although it's still much safer than anywhere in the West. Not so coincidentally, crime rates began to rise when Japan succumbed to international pressure to adopt Western business models: low wages, easily disposable employees, outsourcing, bean counting, and all those facets of American business that we know and hate. When I lived there in the 1970s, the unemployment rate was 2%, supposedly the lowest it is possible to go, and the evening news broadcasts were remarkably free of crime reports. Now unemployment is at American levels, and crime is going up. Hmm.

[Solon]

31. It seems so obvious, yet most politicians seem to ignore it...

Economic security and social policy both have a direct effect on crime rates, far more of an impact than incarceration rates or even criminal law. When the working class can have secure jobs, a good social safety net, and enough leisure time to be with their families, the crime rate goes down. But when jobs aren't secure, the social safety net disappears or is ineffective, and they work longer and longer hours just to make ends meet, then crime rates go up. Its even worse for minorities, for not only are they economically "disenfranchised" but also politically and socially, so they could be considered the "canaries in the coal mine" for social stability.

When you find yourself standing on quicksand, you will try to grab any branch to get you out of that trap, even branches that you wouldn't even consider if you were standing of firm ground.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. Unemployment produces stress in families, and may lead to abuse and/or

neglect of children, which creates a generation that grows up hobbled by lack of support at home.

It's so obvious, and yet when you suggest that maybe living wage jobs would help alleviate poverty, you're called a "bleeding heart liberal."

[Solon]

35. Its a quality of life issue, period.

Have local living wages be enforced, publicly funded child care for single parent families, true universal health care for all citizens, along with publicly funded job training and/or job placement programs, and you could cut the violent crime rate in half within a decade. This would break the cycle of abject poverty, include "reurbanization" programs and more help for entrepreneurs and you not only would increase quality of life for the poor, but for ALL citizens.

[saigon68]

38. But you can't spend billions on blowing up some non christians

or dark skinned peoples

[Solon]

40. True...

Personally, I would like to see the Pentagon budget cut by about 75%, most of its pork projects that shouldn't be funded in the first place. I would increase pay to soldiers, but at the same time reduce recruitment, and pull back our forces to be within U.S. territory. I feel we should abandon our position as a lone Superpower in the world, and only use our military for defense of U.S. TERRITORY, not "interests" which seem to be just interests of U.S. corporations. Soldiers bleed so that stocks and profits can increase, that's just wrong.

A smaller, defensive force, would be more efficient and we could increase funding for the National Guard, to respond to DOMESTIC disaster, promptly and efficiently. This will free up a large amount of money that can be used for domestic social programs to deal with our domestic problems, and we can begin to repair our diplomatic relations with the world that was damaged by Bush. We should deal with the problems of the world with an olive branch rather than a barrel of a gun. Besides, we simply can't afford the military we have now, we WILL collapse under the weight of our military, I would prefer we do it on our terms rather than randomly.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. I have been in favor of that for years

The U.S. spends more on its military than the rest of the world (including China and Russia) combined. We could turn our country into a shining example for the world if we took that money and spent it on human needs.

[Nevernose]

43. And don't forget "over"employment.

An awful lot of people are single parents with multiple jobs. For instance, I'm a teacher twice a day: once at my regular job, and then again when I work for an after-school tutoring company. I do take my kid to the tutoring gig, though, even if it's against the rules. They can't find anyone willing to teach at the schools I work in or with the kids I work with anyway, so what are they gonna do? Fire me?

The COLA's gone up so much recently that I know people who are married, no children, college degrees, who STILL have to take on extra jobs to live a typical, middle-class lifestyle (and pay off the student loan debt, house debt, credit card debt, medical debt, and godonlyknows-what-else-kind of debt).

There's also other considerations: the value we place on education and our sense of commercialism run rampant, for instance.

[Odin2005]

29. My God, Tony is trying to turn Britain into a police state.

Surprisingly, the Conservative Party (AKA the Tories), who IIRC used to be somewhat authoritarian back in the day, have become more of a right-libertarian party recently as a result of Blair's authoritarian tendencies.

[Altean Wanderer]

42. Watch the movie...

Children of Men for what a fascist Britian (or America for that matter) might realistically look like - though without the premise of the movie that it was caused by people losing the abililty to reproduce.

See how illegal immigrants are treated in the movie. That's coming to our country, and probably soon. First they'll come for the illegal immigrants, then they'll come for...

[WorldResident]

44. Britain always was a police state

n/t

[Yavin4]

30. I Agree With Blair On This

If there were such a monitor years ago, we would have picked up two kids who would grow up, become national leaders, and take their respective countries to war on falsified intelligence. Those two kids would have been taken aside and given massive counseling.

[benEzra]

32. Sounds like a cross between George Orwell and Samuel Youd...

with a dash of Half Life 2 thrown in...



"Welcome to City 17. It's safer here."

[depakid]

39. Here are the referenced documents from the Home Office

In case anyone's interested in reviewing the material "from the horse's mouth."

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/security-crime-justice/Building-on-progress-1?view=Binary

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/security-crime-justice/building-on-progress-2?view=Binary

[knight_of_the_star]

45. That's not right

V for Vendetta was supposed to be political satire not prophecy!