Saddam was held by Kurdish forces, drugged and left for US troops

[missingthebigdog]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031221/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_saddam_britain&cid=1514&ncid=1480

Hmmm. . . .

[grytpype]

1. Here's a little more detail. Could this possibly be true?

LONDON, (AFP) - Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was captured by US troops only after he had been taken prisoner by Kurdish forces, drugged and abandoned ready for American soldiers to recover him, a British Sunday newspaper said.

Saddam came into the hands of the Kurdish Patriotic Front after being betrayed to the group by a member of the al-Jabour tribe, whose daughter had been raped by Saddam's son Uday, leading to a blood feud, reported the Sunday Express, which quoted an unnamed senior British military intelligence officer.

The newspaper said the full story of events leading up to the ousted Iraqi president's capture on December 13 near his hometown of Tikrit in northern Iraq (news - web sites), "exposes the version peddled by American spin doctors as incomplete".

[htuttle]

5. Ehem......

Like I said before, the day after he was caught.....


Tinfoil, shminfoil. Common sense is what tells you the world is flat.

[mourningdove92]

2. HAHAHAHAHAHA

Thats the greatest thing I have read in a long time. I sure do hope its true, and that this gets out to the sheeple, oops, I mean, the American public.
:nuke:

[mouse7]

110. Ooooooops!

Me thinks a few Washington State GlOPs are going to be served a lovely Sunday Brunch hosted by Rep. McDermott featuring healthy portions of crow this morning, huh?

[alittlelark]

189. possibly the reason for our CODE ORANGE

Be scared....watch television news (but don't forget to SHOP) because our Christmas season is lookin' a bit gloomy....

[tom_paine]

201. It WILL NEVER be disseminated on the airwaves of Corporate TV Pravda

Such things are VERBOTEN for discussion in Imperial Amerika...

[grasswire]

3. and when did these Kurds capture him?

And how long was he held before the US decided to bring him out?

This is going to unravel, pals. Big time.

[PartyPooper]

16. Don't hold your breath. How many times before have we said that?

When it "unravels" I will finally believe it. Until then I will continue to be amazed at the Amerikan media whores and their lack of objective coverage.

[hlthe2b]

4. Good... the US papers are going to have to pick this up from the Herald...

Be sure and rank it on yahoo to keep it up there.

Not exactly something WE all did not already know/suspect. More lies from the administration that can't tell the truth for its life.

[havocmom]

6. looks like Rove goes back to the drawing board

again.
Be sure and rate this one high to keep it on page one at Yahoo.

[montana_hazeleyes]

36. As of now

it's rated 4.33 with 135 votes!

[Tinoire]

48. Have you read the comments?

Same discussion as DU's. We're not the only ones pounding this administration. Yahoo comments will cheer your heart up when the Conservatives here try to convince people that DU is "Fringe Left Conspiracy Land".

[DuctapeFatwa]

7. The first reports of the "capture" came from KurdSAT

;)

[grytpype]

9. Holy shit on a shingle, there might be something to this...

That is a very important fact.

Link to a video of the KurdSAT announcement:

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:JaoypmY6X1IJ:www.kameraone.com/home.jsp%3Fn_rows%3D10%26category_id%3D79+kurdsat+saddam&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[tlcandie]

12. I must be doing something wrong as it shows not available

:shrug:

[Tinoire]

13. Here's the text

<snip>

By early Sunday – way before Saddam’s capture was being reported by the mainstream Western press – the Kurdish media ran the following news wire:

“Saddam Hussein, the former President of the Iraqi regime, was captured by the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. A special intelligence unit led by Qusrat Rasul Ali, a high-ranking member of the PUK, found Saddam Hussein in the city of Tikrit, his birthplace. Qusrat’s team was accompanied by a group of US soldiers. Further details of the capture will emerge during the day; but the global Kurdish party is about to begin!”

By the time Western press agencies were running the same story, the emphasis had changed, and the ousted Iraqi president had been “captured in a raid by US forces backed by Kurdish fighters.”

<snip>
http://www.sundayherald.com/38816

[tlcandie]

19. Thanks Tinoire you always come through!!!

:loveya:

[Tinoire]

25. Lol- I'd just found that article...

I hope it's the text to the same video mentioned ;)

Peace :hi:

[Zhade]

92. That's because she rules!

</fan>

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. I was up real early last Sunday

hanging out here at DU. The first reports that started coming in where out of Iran. Then CNN finally started to pick it up. Folks here knew something was weird because for hours after the news broke here, FAUX still didn't have a clue. We knew that if this was a US controlled operation, the news would not be coming out of Iran and FAUX would have been given the scoop.

Once again W & CO prove they are the biggest liars in the world. It is to the point of being a pathological disorder.

[Tinoire]

27. Excellent Point...

I knew the story was bogus from the start (I have a pathological inability to believe anything coming from this adminstration!) and hadn't even thought of that.

Good catch... They certainly would have had the scoop- just as for that Thanksgiving charade!

[Zhade]

93. You sure did...

...and I seem to remember some insisting that you "had no proof" that the capture happened any way other than the Bushies described it going down.

This should shut them up, eh? No need for tinfoil with Tinoire - she knows the scoop! :D

[Tinoire]

96. Lol, thanks for your vote of confidence

:hi:

</blush>

[DoYouEverWonder]

138. Here's what I posted last Sunday about Saddam's capture

Sunday Dec 14 2003


http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_846934.html

Iran Reports Saddam captured

Reports are coming in that Saddam Hussein has been captured in Iraq.

The reports, from the Iran News Agency and an Iraqi Kurdish leader, claim he's been arrested in Tikrit.

There has been no confirmation from the US Defence Department or the Ministry of Defence.


Something is odd here? I don't think this went down the way Bu$hCo planned. If they had been in total control of this situation, Saddam would be dead and the news would have come from the Pentagon. Instead, Iran, a charter member of the axis of evil, got the scoop? For those of us who were up early today, it was also apparent that FAUX News didn't have a clue, which for Bu$hCo's staged events they are always the first to know.

Also, W would have been ready. It is quite apparent that W was not prepared for this today. That is why he cancelled church and might make a statement later?

So now they're stuck with Saddam alive. Of course, they will be all over themselves about how great this is and what a major victory this is for the US (and it is). But when things settle down, I think it will be the Iraqis who got the better of Bu$h, now that they've stuck him with a living, breathing Saddam to deal with.


(I didn't think it would take less than a week for the WH story to fall apart, then again I know I shouldn't be surprised.)

[Tinoire]

162. Yes! I remember your post- Remember quoting you even

because I loved this sentence:
So now they're stuck with Saddam alive. <snip> got the better of Bu$h, now that they've stuck him with a living, breathing Saddam to deal with.

Saddaam alive is the last thing Bush wanted. You had some excellent posts that day- as always! :hi:

[leetrisck]

100. First reports were out of Iran - I saw it too and

I called C-Span that AM and mentioned it - also pointed out that Faux & MSNBC did not report for long time after CNN -

[calimary]

159. Yep - that's a signal right there - that POX News did NOT have it.

[screembloodymurder]

121. First report came from the Pentagram

on Dec. 2, 2003.

[54anickel]

127. Yep, and some of the first reports matched this one

[qanda]

8. CNN picked up on a conversation of a commander

Telling his troops right after they came back from their "raid" to get Saddam that, "He was found in a hole like a rat." Then he went on to tell them not to ever mention this to anyone. CNN played the tape of this the other day and I found it very strange that he would need to remind them of how he was found, if they had just found him.

[tlcandie]

10. I most definitely believe it is true...

There have been at least two articles that stated the Kurds PUK group found him not US.

Many have stated he was drugged.

DEBKA stated he was held prisoner and many speculated as it didn't add up.

I don't have all the articles at my fingertips, but if you search within DU you will find them all and I imagine Tinoire or someone here will provide everyone with those awesome links.

I believe this is the jist of it and lookie here...from the above linked article:

<snip>
A former Iraqi intelligence officer, whom the Express did not name, told the paper that Saddam was held prisoner by a leader of the Kurdish Patriotic Front, which fought alongside US forces during the Iraq war, until he negotiated a deal.


The deal apparently involved the group gaining political advantage in the region.
<snip>


Which group was just advanced in the new Iraqi council...three Kurdish members.


Yet another STAGED US production to gain * popularity via the public.

THANKS for posting this!

[Zhade]

94. "Which group was just advanced in the new Iraqi council...

...three Kurdish members."

DING DING DING! We have a winner! Great catch, tlcandie!

[Tinoire]

11. More info: Article: Revealed: who really found Saddam?

Sorry, didn't see this or I wouldn't have posted this article in a different thread. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=279095)


Revealed: who really found Saddam?

Saddam’s capture was the best present George Bush could have hoped for, and then Gaddafi handed a propaganda gift to Blair. But nothing’s ever that simple
By Foreign Editor David Pratt

<snip>

For 249 days there was no shortage of US expertise devoted to the hunt. But the Pentagon has always remained tight-lipped about those individuals and groups involved, such as Task Force 20, said to be America’s most elite covert unit, or another super-secret team known as Greyfox, which specialises in radio and telephone surveillance.

Saddam, of course, was never likely to use the phone, and the best chance of locating him would always be as a result of informers or home-grown Iraqi intelligence. On this and their collaboration with anti-Saddam groups the Americans have also remained reticent.

Enter one Qusrat Rasul Ali, otherwise known as the lion of Kurdistan. A leader of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), Rasul Ali was once tortured by Saddam’s henchmen, but today is chief of a special forces unit dedicated to hunting down former Ba’athist regime leaders.

<snip>
Armed with the information, Talabani made a beeline for US administration offices in Baghdad, where deputy defence secretary Paul Wolfowitz was based for a week’s stay in Iraq at the time.

The Kurdish leader and US military chiefs conferred and decided that PUK intelligence would go ahead and secretly surround the Zeidan villa and install sensors and eavesdropping devices. The Kurdish agents were instructed to prepare the site for the US special forces operation to storm the building on July 22.

<snip>

http://www.sundayherald.com/38816

[UTUSN]

14. This Is Both Totally Believeable AND Amazing n/t

[Cooley Hurd]

15. His daughter was correct...

He was drugged. And kudos to the DUers who speculated that he was held captive long before he was found by American troops. You all hit the nail on the head!

[qanda]

17. Yeah, hats off to all the conspiracy NUTS!

We took a beating last week, even around DU, but it's all good...

[meisje]

23. This is one conspiracy that could be true

[Tinoire]

31. I rather enjoyed that beating. You should book-mark those threads

because the same people who beat us up are the same people who beat DUers up over LIHOP, PNAC, the DLC, the entire fraud of these wars, and Yugoslavia. Bookmarks come in extremely handy ;) Save them in your IE favorites so you can specify who/what and retrieve them easily. Works wonders.

[tlcandie]

22. Thanks!! Yet another Conspiracy THeory bites the dust only to

become the truth....
:+

[Imajika]

30. Huh?

"Thanks!! Yet another Conspiracy THeory bites the dust only to become the truth...."

Excuse me, but how do you know this report is correct?

"Saddam Hussein was captured by US troops only after he had been taken prisoner by Kurdish forces, drugged and abandoned ready for American soldiers to recover him, a British Sunday newspaper said."

A British newspaper? Do we even know which British newspaper is reporting this?

You can't go around saying that the conpiracy theories were correct before you know the veracity of this single report. This British newspaper report could be utter garbage. Quite a number of UK tabloids print an awful lot of pure nonsense, so it just might be a good idea to wait a couple days and see if this story pans out.

Imajika

[Tinoire]

32. Sunday Herald... Same paper that revealed the PNAC last year

as Grasswire was astute enough to point out in a related thread tonight.

http://www.sundayherald.com/38816

Of course you could always wait for Alan Colmes to bring it up on Fox in about a year or two :shrug:

Special Forces operation hahahaha US Intel hahahah Thanksgiving Turkey for the troops hahaha The Bushista boys are a laugh a minute!

[bushedout]

89. Uhh, PNAC wasn't "revealed" last year

Or any other year. It was published for all to see.

[w13rd0]

95. Yes, but no one paid any attention...

...or was really aware of its existance.

[R Hickey]

124. Hey bushedout - did YOU know about the PNAC before the S.H. article?

I have a copy of the Sunday Harald PNAC article right here. It is dated September 15, 2002. Written by Neil Mackay. If you knew all about this PNAC plot to conquer the world before that time, tell me how? Why didn't you break the story yourself? Were you one of the PNAC signitories?

[Tinoire]

128. LMAO! I refrained from even asking

Dead men don't tell tales you know ;) Bushedout has got such a lovely profile- the moniker finally fits!

[tlcandie]

33. Ahhh k Imajika .. you are right as always.. yup!

Too many sources prove it and point to the same common threads... please give it up already. Just because most who whop us (purported CTs) over the head all the time because we do NOT conform to the standard MO of believing ONLY what the US and reputable (formerly) news agencies say is correct/truth doesn't mean it is wrong. This constant hitting over the head for NOT staying within whoever's boundaries you all set is getting old.

Some of us just have more of a knack(sp?) of being able to hold all info within our heads allowing the common threads or unusual points to bring the truth to the surface. The other way is disallowing ALL but the facts (purported) given ONLY by reputable (formerly) US news agencies.

Have a great day!!! :hi:

EDIT: Neither means of coming to the truth of the matter is wrong, but putting others down because they do not conform to a set rule of thumb is far from okay.

[Imajika]

37. tlcandie

I'm sorry, but I just read this story and from what I can tell they are relying on DEBKA as a source this. Further, they are not saying that the Kurds got Saddam first, rather they are saying the possiblility exists that this is what happened.

"According to Debka.com, there is a possibility that Saddam was held for up to three weeks in al-Dwar by a Kurdish splinter group while they negotiated a handover to the Americans in return for the $25m reward. This, the writers say would explain his dishevelled and disorientated appearance."

DEBKA has proven utterly unreliable in virtually everything they have ever reported. DEBKA is mocked as a horrible source right here on DU quite often, and has become something of a joke on political websites.

What I am suggesting is that before people start celebrating a conspiracy theory they believe has been shown to be true, it might be a good idea to have a confirming source better than a Sunday Herald report relying on DEBKA.

"Some of us just have more of a knack(sp?) of being able to hold all info within our heads allowing the common threads or unusual points to bring the truth to the surface."

No, I don't buy that. I believe "some of us" have a knack for believing every dopey conspiracy theory that comes down the pike if it fits their own personal worldview.

Imajika

[tlcandie]

40. Pray tell what is YOUR personal world view?

Oh no wait...I'm sure those who aren't CTs are totally objective. Look we disagree. Let's be mature. You go your way and I go mine and not hijack this thread as it is important!

Thanks again and have a great holiday! :hi:

[Tinoire]

44. You need to re-read that article. They are not relying on Devka

Their entire premise is based on Middle Easter News specifically that of the Kurds who made the find and the initial announcement waaaay before the US ever broke the story. Devka is only brought up towards the end of the article as and presented as a theory that had existed. They're not relying on it at all.

Now to your conspiracy theorist bashing this type of accusation is getting old. I take it that, unlike the conspiracy theorists, you weren't aware that for days rumors of Saddaam having been captured were making the rounds? That a US politician had all but confirmed it? That bizarre, ludicrous stories were being planted in the media that Saddaam was telephoning him weekly and that she was demanding more despite the hundreds of millions in cash he had given her (all this to imply that the greedy witch helped in his capture).

Yes Devka is derided at DU because they have in the past funnelled disinformation for the Mossad expecially anything that will make the Arabs look bad at critical times but a good percentage of their stuff is accurate and their analyses are usually correct. Once you know where Devka's nationalistic loyalties lie you can usually separate the wheat from the chaff. And another thing people who know anything about how intelligence works will tell you is that you can't blame the analyst when the source is wrong and Devka'a analyst are top notch.

You should just conduct your own experiment and read a few times a week for a few months. You'd be surprised

Here's the relevant part of that article and it's way towards the end of the article:

Of the numerous and more exotic theories surrounding events leading to Saddam’s arrest, one originates on a website many believe edited by former Israeli intelligence agents, but which often turns up inside information about the Middle East that proves to be accurate.

According to Debka.com, there is a possibility that Saddam was held for up to three weeks in al-Dwar by a Kurdish splinter group while they negotiated a handover to the Americans in return for the $25m reward. This, the writers say would explain his dishevelled and disorientated appearance.

But perhaps the mother of all conspiracy theories, is the one about the pictures distributed by the Americans showing the hideout with a palm tree behind the soldier who uncov ered the hole where Saddam was hiding. The palm carried a cluster of pre-ripened yellow dates, which might suggest that Saddam was arrested at least three months earlier, because dates ripen in the summer when they turn into their black or brown colour.

[aquart]

111. Debka was reporting a US buildup on Iraq's border

When most of the US was going along with Bush's lie about war being a last resort.

[DoYouEverWonder]

147. They also reported the US base in Northern Iraq

that we set up the summer before the invasion. Remember the one down the road from that supposed al Qaeda training camp and chem factory. Wonder whatever happened to that?

[0rganism]

85. Now who's the conspiracy theorist?

It's LIES! All LIES I tell you! The international press is SAAAAATAAAAAN!

[nolabels]

38. I hate when that happens

:-)

[IndianaGreen]

26. Damn, I believe you (and Saddam's daughter) are right!

Bush took credit for what the Kurds did!

Is there ever any shame!

[bushedout]

42. How would his daughter know anything?

[Tinoire]

49. I think she knows her father and doesn't fall for that crap

about him being delirious and happy to surrender to US troops. I don't even know the guy and I didn't believe this charade for a minute.

The Bushistas- no finesse whatsoever. They so beleive their own lies that they don't even take the care to go over their hollywood scripts to plug the holes.

[bushedout]

88. Again, give me something other than what she thought from

hundreds of miles away

[lumpy]

99. In this instant 2+2=4

I'm sure I am not the only person in the world that believed in the particular theory that Saddam was being held by his truest enemies who had the most legitimate reason (known as revenge) to capture him. His condition and the circumstances in which he was found indicated
that he had been captive for quite some time.

[lumpy]

101. I would venture to say

that Saddams daughter has better access to information than any of us here. We are free to believe any reports that make sense and these reports make sense.

[thissideup]

166. How does it make sense?

Plus many reports may "make sense" and yet contradict each other. Whether something makes sense to you or not is not a valid measure of what is news.

[IndianaGreen]

168. The only reports that contradict each other are...

the ones that come out of the Pentagon and the White House.

Where are the WMDs?

[mouse7]

116. The Answer is: long enough to grow three inches

How long did the Kurds hold Saddam and leave him in a some cespool unable to shave his beard before they handed Saddam to US forces?

CORRECT!

Saddam never had a beard his whole life and immediately shaved it when he had the first opportunity.

[Timefortruth]

161. That may not hold up, just because if he was out and about he may

have grown a beard to hide his identity. That said, I think the Kurds had him for some time before the US got him.

[alittlelark]

191. Thanks! But some viewed me as a'tin-foil-hat'

Had to figure out the jargon. Logic is not 'conspiracy theory'.

[Manix]

18. ..kudos to Jim McDermott!!

nt

[Cocoa]

20. so Operations Red Dawn was kind of overkill

they could have just sent a taxi to pick him up where the Kurds left him.

[aquart]

106. Can you say, "Jessica Lynch"?

[Catherine Vincent]

24. I knew it!

I knew something was fishy about this capture.

[madrchsod]

28. what will the kurds

want from the us for this? independent kurdish area in iraq? complete control of the oilfields?what will turkey do about the growing power of the iraqi kurds? there will be a huge problem with the kurds in turkey and iran...will we back the kurds or the turks? there`s a new pandora`s box being opened in iraq.....

[tlcandie]

35. They've already gotten it ....

three spots w/in the new governing council of Iraq just announced today I believe. Sorry I guess I need to get these links marked like Tinoire says :+

[Minstrel Boy]

29. remember to rate it high at Yahoo

Let's nip in the bud the mythmaking of "Operation Red Dawn."

[ParticipatoryDem]

34. I knew it!

This capture had forgery written all over it. So we had him on ice for weeks or months and pulled him out when we needed him the most. What stories were unreported while we were looking for lice in his rug?

[maggrwaggr]

45. Dean on the cover of Newsweek, Halliburton stealing 61 million

those were the two big ones of the moment when Saddam suddenly appeared.

[tlcandie]

47. The worst was the stealthing acceptance/vote/implementation

of Patriot Act part deux :cry:

[qanda]

39. Didn't they say that there were only American troops on this raid?

Someone please answer.

[bushedout]

41. Ridiculous

If the Kurds had caught Saddam there wouldn't be enough left of him to put in a small envelope.

Some of the British press is whacked

[tlcandie]

43. Really? Then why didn't they kill all the other leaders they turned

over for $$$? They could just have easily killed them all rather than turn them over. It was a HUGE boost plus an Iranian news interview to be seen as a hero for capturing Saddam. Even Iran doesn't want the death penalty for Saddam.

[bushedout]

50. More unnamed sources that will dissolve into thin air as usual

We know where the sympathies of some of the British press lie.

[Zhade]

193. It's okay.

This will be shown to be true, as the Official Story unravels - as they all do eventually.

Don't worry, though - I for one promise not to tell you, "I told you so", when your efforts to cling to the OS are thwarted by reality.

(Don't even care if this gets deleted. I stand by my words - the facts will back us up.)

[Nihil]

195. Re-read the articles quoted already for some names of the "unnamed"

> We know where the sympathies of some of the British press lie.

And we also know where the sympathies of certain posters to this
forum lie.

If you'd bothered to read the articles (or even just the Sunday Herald
one) you'd have found that the "unnamed sources" included Qusrat Rasul
Ali (PUK leader), Adil Murad (PUK political bureau) and Ahmed Chalabi
(Iraqi National Congress leader).

You, on the other hand, insist on countering everything with a
"have faith in the President" shovelful.

Here you go Ol' Faithful: "By their deeds shall ye know them ..."

Nihil

[bushisanidiot]

198. Speaking of the $$ The 'Murkan Troops Supposedly Found W/Saddam

in his "hidey hole", I'm guessing that money on the videotape was the payoff the kurds got from AWOL for producing Saddam.. if we actually have him that is..

[maggrwaggr]

46. are you kidding? The Kurds knew they had a major negotiating tool

Sure they'd want to kill him but they also, more than anything, want recognition and sovereignty.

[Tinoire]

51. Yepper- Autonomous state and $25 million

Kind of makes you wonder just what Bush was really doing in Iraq for Thanksgiving and what he discussed with Chalabi.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

55. Actually, Tinoire supports Kucinich

As to your UFO comment, I am baffled by it. There are UFOs all around. After all, a UFO is an unindentified flying object. It doesn't necessarily follow that a UFO is a spacecraft from another planet.

Your Dean comment is quite a stretch! Perhaps you count yourself among those that don't believe in anything unless they hear it first on Faux News or on from Rush. Or perhaps you are among those millions of Americans that demand proof whenever any story comes out that reflects badly on Bush or his bloody war in Iraq, yet they are the same people that readily embrace suspension of disbelief whenever there is a pronouncement from the Bush regime.

[madfloridian]

56. Ditto ditto ditto to IG

Well said. Oops that makes me a dittohead. :silly:

[bushedout]

57. No

When someone uses the word UFO it is commonly accepted as a euphamism for "extraterrestrial". No one who hears it thinks one is speaking of an airplane, weather balloon or swamp gas.

As far as what I believe in; I believe that Dean is a disgrace and will take the Party down badly.

[madfloridian]

58. This thread is NOT about Dean. Shame on you.

That is just ridiculous. Oops, I capitalized.

[ClintonTyree]

78. That's OK..............

just don't do it "excessively". :hi:

[IndianaGreen]

59. Your views on Dean are irrelevant to this thread

and your comment about Tinoire being a Dean supporter and a believer in UFOs, within the context of a thread about the Kurds capturing Saddam weeks before the US claimed that it had "captured" him, leaves me perplexed and confused.

[madfloridian]

61. If you are bushed out, you need to retire for the evening.

Good night.

[Tinoire]

74. Hehe - I love you guys. All of you!

:hi:

Thanks

[madfloridian]

77. Hugs.

:pals:

[Dirk39]

103. We love you, too...

I'm just flying above your head in sunny California in a kind of unidentified extraterrestrial flying object.
I can even see IndianaGreen, now...
Damn, there's something wrong with the remote,

I hear you,
Dirk

[Tinoire]

107. LMAO! Beam me up Dirk! Beam us all up! Rapture us away from

evil Republicans. They frighten me :scared:

They smell like death and blood and destruction... evil :scared:


:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

Whoops! But not yet! First we have to get our country back! ;)

:loveya:

[screembloodymurder]

125. Hey Tinoire

have you ever seen a UFO? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Tinoire]

129. Well... I once

drove past a DLC convention. All sorts of things were floating around... They called them "Rising Stars". One was even called the USS Homeless for Gavin Newsom. So yeah, I guess you could say so ;)

Oh and then there was the time I drove past the White House...

[Tinoire]

75. Your concern for the party is... touching. n/t

[caledesi]

82. Dean? Talk about getting off the subject! We don't fall for

distractions here. Only the repug crowd does.

[lumpy]

102. Who do you really want to win in 2004?

Dean, Clark, Kerry, or......Bush?

[Tinoire]

72. That was great! I love your comment!

that readily embrace suspension of disbelief whenever there is a pronouncement from the Bush regime

Very well put! Suspension of disbelief...

[0007]

152. I'm tired of three things. Religious nuts -UFO billshit and Faux watchers

[Tinoire]

71. What color is you parachute?

I support Dean but he's not my primary candidate not that it's really any of your business or the appropriate place. My primary candidate fights mind control :evilgrin:

And UFOs? No... what I saw was something a lot more vile




I SEE REPUBLICANS :(

[tlcandie]

53. Agree Tinoire...

Knowing his attitude he wanted to kick him in the nutz for old times sake and to let him know who's boss :eyes:

[caledesi]

83. I think it's a shame that we have to get REAl news from foreign press.

We only have TASS and Pravda.

[JanMichael]

151. Sorry but the creation of a Kurdish state is more important to people...

...than an easy slitting of the throat.

The Kurds have been fucked by everyone involved...Except for Iran....Saddam is just a bargaining chip, although a biggun, but only a tool once he was deposed.

I expect that they have a harder edge in dealing with these things that your average American or European.

While we'd be over his bloody dead body, screaming to high heaven, they'd just drug him and call Bremer to cut a deal for a Kurdish State.

[paulthompson]

54. What about the dates? And KSM's "capture"?

Check out this paragraph from the Sunday Herald article:

"But perhaps the mother of all conspiracy theories, is the one about the pictures distributed by the Americans showing the hideout with a palm tree behind the soldier who uncovered the hole where Saddam was hiding. The palm carried a cluster of pre-ripened yellow dates, which might suggest that Saddam was arrested at least three months earlier, because dates ripen in the summer when they turn into their black or brown colour."

There was a thread about this already, with a picture of the dates in question. Hopefully someone can repost that here. Could one of the conspiracy theory debunking types please explain the dates in the picture, when they are ripe like that in July, August at the latest? At the very least it casts doubt on that particular picture.

Interestingly, the article also talks about a flurry of activity around late July, including the killing of Saddam's two sons. Was he really taken then, held, and then perhaps replanted in Tikrit to be publically captured when the time was right?

Then you have Janet Reno making the comment that she wondered if bin Laden isn't captured already and Bush just waiting for the right moment to pull him out.

Debka is hardly a reputable source, but there's enough fishy business here to make a reasonable observer wonder what's really going on, especially given the Bush administration's past record of lying, manipulating the news, and timing events for political gain. For instance, that Republican Congressman's comment weeks earlier that he had inside knowledge Hussein's capture was imminent.

I'd like to point out as one example, the extremely dubious story of the capture of al-Qaeda leader Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. Then, as now, the details just didn't add up. For a few days the press smelled something funny and even Fox News commentators were speculating that Mohammed was already dead or captured long before. But then everyone forgot all the curious details and accepted the official story as fact.

I wrote a long essay about Mohammed's capture, which I think is worth a read in light of this latest capture:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayksmcapture.html

After I finished that, there was a bogus press conference and video that cast even more doubt on the official events:

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20030311_109.html

The fake Mohammed capture shows how easy it is to fake such a story, because the fawning Western media will not contradict the official story even if there are a dozen or more blatant inconsistencies in the official line.

Look at the remote drone killing of an al-Qaeda leader in Yemen literally a day before the 2002 midterm US elections when it turned out they had the guy in their sights for weeks. That reminder of Bush getting tough on terrorists probably was the difference in some races - it was headline news the day everyone went to the polls. Look at Press Secretary Ari Fleischer's admission that terror alerts were issued in May 2002 to distract the media, and even congresspeople noting the frequently suspicious timing of terror alerts that later turned out to be bogus alerts. Look at the timing of Ashcroft's initial announcement that Jose Padilla had been captured and the whole dirty bomb plot (which later completely dissolved into him merely thinking about doing it), right when Congress was about to vote for the Homeland Security bill. It turns out he was arrested a month before and secretly held, and even the stodgy London Times pointed out that it was "beyond dispute" that the timing of the arrest announcement was "politically inspired."

I could go on and on. It's the same old Rovian trick again and again. The timing of events and revelation of events are manipulated for maximum political exposure.

One last observation: if there in fact was some tricky business surrounding Hussein's capture, then we know for sure he will never be allowed to speak freely or he's cut a deal, because how could they stop from saying, hey I was captured three months earlier or whatever the truth really is?

[paulthompson]

67. Repost

Here's a repost of a couple relevant articles:

McDermott in Hot Water for Saddam Quip

By MATTHEW DALY
Associated Press Writer

December 15, 2003, 9:07 PM EST

WASHINGTON -- Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., who earned headlines across the globe last year for criticizing President Bush while in Baghdad, is enmeshed in a new controversy over remarks he made about the capture of Saddam Hussein.

In an interview Monday with a Seattle radio station, McDermott said the U.S. military could have found the former Iraqi dictator "a long time ago if they wanted."

Asked if he thought the weekend capture was timed to help Bush, McDermott chuckled and said, "Yeah. Oh, yeah."

McDermott went on to say, "There's too much by happenstance for it to be just a coincidental thing."

snip

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-saddam-mcdermott,0,2235697,print.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines



Tuesday, December 2, 2003
LaHood: Hussein's capture imminent

Pantagraph Staff

BLOOMINGTON -- U.S. Rep. Ray LaHood held his thumb and forefinger slightly apart and said, "We're this close" to catching Saddam Hussein.

Once that's accomplished, Iraqi resistance will fall apart, said the five-term Republican congressman from Peoria who serves on the House Intelligence Committee.

A member of The Pantagraph editorial board -- not really expecting an answer -- asked LaHood for more details, saying, "Do you know something we don't?"

"Yes I do," replied LaHood.

http://www.pantagraph.com/stories/120203/new_20031202014.shtml

[madfloridian]

76. I remember the pics, it looked more like summer.

"But perhaps the mother of all conspiracy theories, is the one about the pictures distributed by the Americans showing the hideout with a palm tree behind the soldier who uncovered the hole where Saddam was hiding. The palm carried a cluster of pre-ripened yellow dates, which might suggest that Saddam was arrested at least three months earlier, because dates ripen in the summer when they turn into their black or brown colour."

How weird it did not sink in.

[windansea]

181. see post 180 n/t

[paulthompson]

87. picture of the yellow dates here

Scoll down. Maybe someone can post the pic in this thread.

http://hammorabi.blogspot.com/2003_12_01_hammorabi_archive.html

[lumpy]

105. Thanks for the post

The unripe dates
The no-escape pit where Saddam was found
His curious question, like- are we going to negotiate now?
His hair and beard groweth and overall physical & mental condition
No means of communication (phone)
The fact that Kurds were in the area at that time
More to come?

[Tinoire]

109. Well- something about hot-dogs in his cabin too I heard

but not sure where. HOT DOGS??!! Is that for real?! Jeez Bush, pay top dollar- get a better script writer!

[aquart]

118. Pork?

[Tinoire]

130. I kid you not! ... I even just googled it to confirm

to make sure I wasn't repeating nonesense and sadly, sadly...

Candy bars, hot dogs littered Saddam's hideaway

ADWAR, Iraq (AP) - The yard was a mess, the laundry wasn't done, the pantry was bare and the only art on the wall was a poster of Noah's Ark.

<snip>

In the makeshift kitchen, a small fridge contained a few Bounty candy bars, some hot dogs and a can of 7-UP. There was old bread on a counter, leftover rice in a pot and dirty dishes in the sink.

On a shelf above the gas stove, there was soap, a canister of coffee, mouthwash, a mirror and .

<snip>

http://www.iht.com/articles/121557.html (complete article)
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2003/12/15/287993-ap.html (partial)

I guess Saddaam had PX privileges :shrug:

[paulthompson]

123. Hot dogs?

I wasn't familiar with that detail either, but it wouldn't surprise me. Does anyone remember when Panama's General Noreiga had his home raided by US troops? Supposedly they found a copy of Mein Kampf, bags of cocaine, and just about everything else you could think of to demonize him except for a giant arrow sign saying "evil" pointing at his head. Of course, a tiny article buried in the back of the newspaper weeks later mentioned that all of this turned out to be untrue.

Probably the same psyops guys are still working, doing the same job on Hussein. I mean sure Hussein's one evil guy, but the hot dogs (Muslims can't eat pork) is just so over the top.

[Tinoire]

131. Lol- I'd forgotten the cooked up details for Noriega

Thanks for the reminder. Maybe they'll retract this story in a few weeks or say they were "chicken-dogs" :shrug:

Bush Bush baby, you really need better script writers!

[Military Brat]

145. LOL - "a giant arrow sign saying 'evil' pointing at his head"

Bush should pose for a photo-op with Saddam, who will be wearing a T-shirt with the slogan "I'm With Stupid"

[DoYouEverWonder]

148. Oh come on,

they were probably All Beef Ballparks. Or maybe Oscar Meyer Weiners?

[lolly]

156. Kosher Dogs?

Is it Manishevitz that makes those Kosher Hot Dogs--you know, the ones that "answer to a higher authority?"

[IndianaGreen]

154. Excellent point about the hot dogs! Were they beef hot dogs?

Neither Jews nor Muslims will eat regular hot dogs because they are made of pork.

[screembloodymurder]

126. Unripe dates

I understand there are some date trees which produce this time of year.

[alfredo]

200. No, they appear ripe. The date harvest is in Aug and Sept.

[Tinoire]

112. Thanks- wasn't familiar with this detail until tonight! Oh and hint

Here's how you post the picture in a thread- right-click on the picture and copy the properties (the entire url) by pressing Control + C (for copy) and paste that in your thread. You can preview to make sure it works the first time. Piece of cake ;)

Thanks a million!

[windansea]

182. here ya go

http://www.snapbanner.co.uk/images/hammourabi/unripe_1.jp
sorry doesn't work

[blockhead]

135. Albright, not Reno

eom

[alittlelark]

192. Kudos - you are sooo on top of things

I have those stories in my biological database... I need to start saving onto hard drive!

[imhotep]

60. everyone should vote on yahoo

to keep it high.

[madfloridian]

62. Yes, vote, rating is going down.

:hi:

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

63. can't wait for this to break big in the mainstream U.S. media

Hopefully enough people will email local and national news org's and insist they at least cover this one.

[0rganism]

86. That'll be sometime after the end of Michael Jackson's trial, no doubt

I wouldn't be holding my breath...

[caledesi]

64. Like I said, this latest "stunt" will backfire. Now for some heavy-duty

scoop on this story.

On Randi Rhodes the other day this topic was brought up. Randi went on a rampage (having been in the military), that there was NO way he was in that hole for the time they said. She also said that when soldiers are sent to holes, or find them, the first thing they do is throw a hand grenade into the hole.

There was also talk that Bush*'s little impromptu visit to Baghdad (can't spell tonight) was because they already had SH and * wanted to go there himself to see him. (He tried to kill his daddy, you know).

Also, how the hell did they get the DNA so fast? Kinda reminds you of the pics of the hijackers from 9/11 on the TV. How did they know so fast that these were the hijackers?

Also, also, the pics of the US soldiers near the hole were in front of a ripened date trees. Well, the dates are harvested in the summer, not now. Can we say FAKE!

This will backfire just like the Top Gun fiasco,Jessica Lynch, and the Thanksgiving dinner fiasco. Rove is no genius.

I knew it, I knew it, I knew it!

Pass the rubber drumstick please.

edit: forgot about the date tree story

[ParticipatoryDem]

65. Why an unnamed source? Who could it be?

An unnamed Western intelligence source in the Middle East told the Express: "Saddam was not captured as a result of any American or British intelligence."

[caledesi]

66. More scoop on the "capture" of SH.

Rand Rhodes the other day was talking on this topic. She said there was no way he was hiding on his own volition in a hole. She was in the military and said the first thing a soldier does when s/he comes across a hole is to throw a hand grenade in.

Also, supposedly Bush*'s little foray to Iraq for Thanksgiving was bec SH was there and * wanted to see him. (he tried to kill his daddy, you know).

DNA for SH in a day? Yeah, right. Most people know that DNA tests cannot be done in ONE day.

This "stunt" is going to backfire, just like the other ones (Top Gun, Jessica Lynch etc). Karl Rove is NO genius.

I knew it! I knew it! I knew it!

Pass the rubber drumstick, please.

[bushedout]

68. But that is Saddam right?

And he would not be in custody if the US had not invaded right?

[madfloridian]

69. Go to bed now.

.

[bushedout]

80. Go to....

:)

[bushedout]

81. You disagree?

[Occulus]

157. Yes, yes,

and we know how much better off the Iraqi people are, and we know Bush if after those terra-ists and he'll do a great job, because he's already done so.

Hey- I haven't forgotten 9/11, after all. We had to go after Saddam because of 9/11.

/SARCASM in a BIG way.

I don't think anyone here really believes it's NOT Saddam by now. That's not the point. The point is, he was already captured and news of the same was held back until the "timing was right".

After all, you don't roll out a new product in August.

[Tinoire]

117. Oh it's in bed for a nice long nap as we speak ;)

Your solicitude was just too much for it ;) The kindness killed it lol :)

[lumpy]

108. Sure

And ten of thousands of Iraqis would still be alive
And thousands of Iraqis would not be suffering from tramatic injuries
And the schools, water, electicity, livelihoods, etc. would still be in working order
The US might still have some honour left in the world
And the United Nations would prove to be a viable means for world peace and order
And the world would be less in fear of a WW3
And the US might not be suffering economicaly, living in fear, afraid of losing their Constitutional rights and despondent over worldwide upheaval

[DoYouEverWonder]

149. The soldier who was at the top of the hole

was getting ready to throw a grenade in when Saddam popped out his head and surrendered in front of 100's of people, many of whom were Iraqis and Kurds. At that point, it was a little difficult to kill him, which is what we would have done in an instant except the Iraqis had outsmarted us.

They had Saddam and then made sure there was a big audience for his capture. The Kurds gave us Saddam on a silver platter, unfortunately they made sure we got stuck with him alive. That is why the WH is in such a state of confusion over this. Remember how unconfused (I know that's not a word) they were right after 9-11. The Patriot Act was already written and their plans for war in Afghanistan and Iraq were in the bag. Remember how prepared W was when he was in London and the British Embassy had just been blown up. His speech fit perfectly with that days turn of events. Now contrast that to how unprepared W was on the morning of the Columbia accident or when the Chinook helicopter got shot down last month. Last weekend it was very apparent that the WH was not in control of the news on this and that they were totally unprepared to be stuck with Saddam alive. Otherwise, they would have had it all figured out already where and when he would be tried. Nay, this has doublecross written all over it and I am sure there are bunch of Kurds laughing their butts off about the whole thing.

[Tinoire]

163. Ah but happy, happy Kurds!

Out-smarting chimp-boy like that for all the world to see. I'd be laughing by butt off too if there weren't so much human suffering involved... The suffering puts a real damper on the comedic level of this whole thing :( Take away the suffering and this is high comedy.

[caledesi]

70. OMG! Go to Freeperville immediately. Check out what a liberal

posted before it gets killed.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1044309/posts


To: quidnunc
Stupid Republican bastards. Hussein is an innocent made out to be a monster all created by the Bush family and you stupid bastards all support Bush wanting to get revenge for President Hussein trying to stop robot Bush number one. "Oh, he tried to have my daddy killed! So now I must get revenge!" Yeah, real nice, and now our US guys are dying for it. Stupid punks.
HILLARY IN 2004!

BRING BACK A STRONG USA THAT DOESN`T EXPEND US LIVES FOR THE RICH !!! CLINTONS ARE THE BEST THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO THE USA!!! REPUBLICANS HATE HILLARY BECAUSE THEY HATE WOMEN!!! HILLARY IN 2004!!!! PRESIDENT CLINTON AGAIN!!!!

edit: decided to include the post before it got killed.

[ParticipatoryDem]

73. What liberal would claim "Hussein is an innocent"?

No liberal with a clear mind.

[madfloridian]

79. Welcome to DU.

Who said he was innocent? I missed that.

[Robb]

133. We call that

"fakin it" where I come from. Someone is so desperate to say "look what the liberals think".... it would be like me posting on DU that Reagan kept the (insert epithet here) in line, or something, so I could talk about how moronic the repubs are.

...Fortunately, we don't need that kind of help. They sufficiently embarrass themselves. :)

[Rex]

84. Yup, and their responses are typical for non-thinking dittoheads

"BS, if the Kurds woulda captured Saddam he would be dead."

"A Kurd would be wearing Saddams testicles around his neck."

"He would have been torn into a thousand little pieces."

etc etc etc

It never occurs to the unthinker that maybe there are some CIVILIZED Kurds who know the ins & outs of political maneuvering.

These Freeps act as if Kurds are nothing more than barbaric savages. It is reflective in their postings.

[Must_B_Free]

90. CHeckmate! I told you

the Kurds were using their head. They knew a live Saddam was way more of a problem for their occupier than a dead Saddam.

[PsychoDad]

97. barbaric savages

"These Freeps act as if Kurds are nothing more than barbaric savages. It is reflective in their postings."

Isn't that the american attitude to all things non-american?

[w13rd0]

98. Funny...

...we've seen the same kind of comments here.

[lumpy]

114. The quote sounds like a

freeper just having fun, doesn't sound like a DUer to me.

[IndianaGreen]

167. Precisely, it sounds like a Freeper being sarcastic

the giveaway is the "Hillary in 2004"!

[aquart]

119. "Hussein is an innocent"?????????????

Okay, that's going way overboard.

[ima_sinnic]

91. here is the picture in question . . .

from this source, cited in a post above:
http://hammorabi.blogspot.com/2003_12_01_hammorabi_archive.html

[Tinoire]

113. Astounding. n/t

[daleo]

170. Two soldiers to pick up a piece of styrafoam

That also seems a little odd.

[htuttle]

174. I hadn't noticed that before

You're right, though. In fact, by the position of the soldier's feet, and the position of their hips, it appears that they are bearing more weight than a styrofoam block would cause. In fact, it looks like they are lifting a concrete block.

What's the difference? If it were concrete, then Saddam would find it a bit more difficult to get himself out of the hole from the inside.

[aquart]

104. This explains the December 2 story.

Somebody help me out. I read it in DU. An official in BushCo? The Pentagon? He was bragging about knowing "something" about Saddam on December 2.

Arghh. I don't have a link. HELP ME!

I really like the idea of the Kurds taking him first. They have a legitimate right to hunt Saddam. We only have the right to give him a pension for loyal service.

[Tinoire]

115. Here you go / Post # 6

The guy's name is Ray LaHood. There were more detailed posts but you should be able to do a search if you need more

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=270956

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=914651

Peace

[aquart]

120. That's it. Thanks.

BTW, should that looselips be on an intelligence committee? I mean, it's useful for now, but I'm thinking of the future.

[Tinoire]

122. The same thought crossed my mind

His cockiness was... striking. I sure would not want him on our side!

[robbedvoter]

132. Rate this ! Freepers already trying to hide it - panned it

Very important story - spread it around!

[R Hickey]

134. Sadamm spent more time in captivity than Cheney's 70 dead game birds.

Vice President Dick Cheney just shot seventy phesants at a gamefarm last week. The birds were raised from incubated eggs, released from cages and immediatly shot. This is apparently considered quite sporting for rich republican white men with pace-makers.

It looks likes Sadamm's capture was done the same controled way. If it turns out that Saddamm has been in Kirdish captivity since his beard started to grow, then he may have actually spent more time in a cage than those phesants that Vice President Cheney shot last week.

[Nlighten1]

136. JAPO strikes again

Just Another Photo Op

[RetroLounge]

137. and heres another link from Bloomberg

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aUBP42FLX880&refer=us

[catmandu57]

142. Everything these idiots do is exposed

later. From the staged photo ops to the eco numbers that have to be revised later every damn thing they do is phony. This story stank like a week old fish from day one, to quote bob you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

[ParticipatoryDem]

139. I just heard this was from a tabloid paper

Are we following tabloid stories now? Are we being set up for another let down?

[DoYouEverWonder]

141. Which paper are you referring to, the Sunday Herald?

The Sunday Herald is not a tabloid, it is a respectable publication out of Scotland. Neither is Yahoo or Bloomberg who have also picked up this story.

[caledesi]

146. Sunday Herald is not a tab. And oh, BTW, the tabs in general

have a kernel of truth ala Rush Limbaugh. I remember when the Freepers did the "tabloid" thing. They just keep trashing every media that has the truth and rely on Fox only.

I think it a shame we have to get the REAL news from a foreign newspaper, not from one of our own.

[Sorcerer3]

140. They ain't so smart...

If this story is true it just goes to show that the kurds ain't so smart. I would have at least claimed the $25 million reward instead.

[Occulus]

160. Hmmmm.

$25 million versus an ethnic state and three seats on the governing council.

I'll take him alive with a side of photo op, please.

The Kurds are killing two birds with one stone here. I'm sure they were promised something for keeping quiet about having him in the first place- that would be the three seats on the council. The thing the US didn't count on was the Kurds making damn sure he was alive when they turned him over.

I bet the Kurds were laughing up their sleeves at the US the entire time. Oh, sure, they'll cooperate, but at the same time, they probably would like the US to leave Iraq sooner, rather than later. I'm willing to bet that they also noticed the dates on the tree in the photo, and decided to keep quiet, as the date manipulation (wow- double pun) will look bad for * and thus help get him out of power. Bush out of office means they get to try their own power grab- a Kurdish state inside Iraq- that much sooner.

Their holding him for so long does show that they are perfectly capable of covert ops of their own. It proves they have tight lips, and can handle their own security. It also proves, if my hypothesis is correct, that they're just as politically astute as any of us.

This is their proverbial Big Chance for a Kurdish state. I'm thinking they're stepping up to the plate and giving it a shot.

[DemonFighterLives]

185. I hate to think this

If I was a Kurd, I would have trouble cutting a deal with Bush or Bremer. The details may look good at the outset, but accidents happen and the greed they have leaves a double cross a very real possibility. :shrug:

[Tinoire]

164. They've claimed it also- read the other LBN articles in their entirety

and as Kgfnally pointed out, they get their state and seats on the governing counsel. I look forward to reading your future posts.

On edit: Lol! DU admin definitely very smart and quick on the trigger! :toast:

[GRClarkesq]

143. This story could pan out

if the British press or any press follow up with the Kurds individually involved in the capture. I think they would be willing to dine out on this story and tell the details, after all they had a press release.

I read the AFP story linked above which referenced the a Sunday Express story. I did not see a link to the story on the Express website. The AFP telling relies on three unamed sources, "British military intelligence", "former Iraqi intelligence officer", and an "unamed western intelligence source."

On to the Sunday Herald story. I don't know anything about British tabloids. Are the Express and Herald related? Is the Herald story separate from what is being described in the AFP story? The Herald story did quote some Kurdish sources.

I think it is certainly possible the Kurds gift wrapped Saddam for US forces and they cut a deal where the US gets the spin and the Kurds gain domestic political advantage.

I could also see the Kurds exaggerating their role in order to gain that very same political advantage or for their domestic consumption.

Now that the story is out I hope someone interviews the Kurds involved. Wait and see.

[grasswire]

155. the Sunday Herald has been on the money

They first broke the PNAC story. Many investigative pieces have originated with that paper.

[BlueEyedSon]

144. The payoff to the Kurds?

Kurds demand federal Iraq without waiting for constitutional convention

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=278611

[Logansquare]

169. Remember how Blabbermouth LaHood (R-IL) spilled this on 12/2?

These neocons are like little boys, I swear:
http://www.pantagraph.com/stories/121503/new_20031215035.shtml

[colorado_ufo]

150. From the first time I saw it

I had the feeling that the "hidey hole - spider hole" was not a hideout but a prison.

Also - was it ever recorded anywhere whether or not the pistol, etc. that Hussein had with him actually had ammunition?

There were doctors, obviously, examining him after his official capture. Did they take blood/urine tests? Did they find drugs?

[Blue_Roses]

153. wow--what a difference a week makes

to think this time last Sunday ...


This story makes better sense. Saddam's appearance said it all. For a man to be such a "clean freak" and then to come out of "hiding" looking like he did, reeked of something amiss.

Hope this story grows some loooooong legs!

[grasswire]

158. it's true that PNAC was published before SMH broke the story open

The publications of PNAC were available for anyone to see. It was SMH that brought the scheme to our national conversation.

When I read the story in SMH, I immediately wrote to the president of the WH Correspondents Association, the editor of Editor and Publisher magazine, the Columbia Journalism Review, and assorted reporters and asked them why this had not been covered in the American press.

Two of them told me the story probably was inaccurate -- foreign, you know. The others didn't bother to answer.

[Philostopher]

165. I admit I wondered about this at the time.

I ordinarily don't jump at conspiracy theories at the outset -- more because I'm a skeptic than anything else. At the same time, I'm willing to allow that a) anything is possible, and b) there is no longer any behavior or motivation I'd put past this bunch.

Just wait until they trot out the pics of the BOGUS POTUS 'interrogating' SH, taken during the rubber turkey trip. Only half kidding -- the possibility hovers at the back of my brain, I confess. How could they have resisted, since they had no choice but accept Hussein alive?

[Imalittleteapot]

171. Kick. Go rate story. n/t

[imax2268]

172. rated it a 5...

I admit...I didn't think of a conspiracy theory at first...but with this administrations past bumbles...I'm starting to wonder now...

Where is the American press on this..?


(on edit:spelling)

[barbaraann]

173. The Yahoo story has had a rating of 3.63 all day, even though

several hundred additional votes have been cast since I first looked at it today.

I think they froze it exactly where it would never show up in the Top Stories no matter how many positive-rating votes are cast.

This is quite a battle we are in.

[imax2268]

175. Don't know if this one is posted yet...

but here's another link...

Kurds say they got Saddam first...

[windansea]

176. inside red dawn

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3770218/

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[DoNotRefill]

177. I kind of doubt this report....

If the Kurds had him, I think we'd have only gotten the body, not him alive.

[Junkdrawer]

178. They wanted the $25 Million...

A corpse may not have gotten them the money, but threatening to turn a live Saddam over to, oh say, France... :evilgrin:

[windansea]

179. not to sure France

wants a live Saddam either :evilgrin:

[DoNotRefill]

196. Correct me if I'm wrong here...

but the reward was for Saddam dead or alive. The reward was paid for Saddam's sons, and they were both dead. Given the level of antipathy the Kurds hold for Saddam, there's no way they'd have turned him over alive.

[windansea]

180. re the unripe dates

"Regarding the rumours raised about the unripe dates seen at the site of the arrest of Saddam (please see my article; The Unripe Dates, 17 Dec 2002), some reporters have visited Al Door area and met the farmers. Asharq Al Awsat newspaper tried to enter the site where Saddam was arrested but prevented from going inside by an American patrol. They then went to the neighbouring farms. The farmers affirmed that plenty of yellow dates exist now and will remain so until the end of March. They explained that the lack of fertilisation hampered the process of ripening by which the dates converted from hard yellow to a brown soft. The unfertilised dates called (Shees) or unripe dates. It will remain yellow for long time until the end of March. This was the case in the tree near Saddam's hiding place. It was like many other trees ignored (not been fertilised) due to the war. The usual process of fertilisation in Iraq carried out manually by taking the seeds dust from the males and put it in the flowers of the females. This process carried out individually from one tree to another by one person or more. The farmers added that the members of the previous regime ignored their farms due to the war so remained unfertilised.

Posted by: Sam / 12/21/2003 05:27:11 AM

[Myra]

183. Right now it's ranked 3.63 on yahoo, out of 5. Vote please...

Kick

[Myra]

184. I still don't understand why the US took him (from the Kurds...?) alive

Was it so he'll be a nice five year long distraction?
Humiliate the Iraqis?
...?

[pinto]

186. the question remains: Why did we go to Iraq? Democrats! let's keep

our eyes on the prize.

I know, I'm caught up in this also, Kurds?, photo-op?, another illusion?

Point is to keep the fire on the Administration, without getting side tracked by their (possible) manipulation. Why did we go into Iraq and what have we gained? What has it cost and how much will it cost? How long will we occupy Iraq? Where is a clear cost accounting in taxpayer dollars? Lives and money are the most important questions. Not who said what where and when. They will run around those issues from here to kingdom come. But the questions of our nation's lives and money are much harder to dodge.

[lebkuchen]

187. But...Bremer said Saddam was "defiant."

Is Bremer on Oxycontin, too?

[barbaraann]

188. Still 3.63 on Yahoo with hundreds more votes.

Unbelievable. They don't even try to pretend any more.

[PennyLane]

190. Somehow.......

.....I just knew this story would crumble. Bush hasn't done anything
right, yet. Why should he start now? The sad part is that they keep insulting our intelligence. :dunce:

[TheWebHead]

194. All of the other news organizations point to the Sunday Express...

as a source, so you shouldn't take the crediblity of those papers as a reference, just the Sunday Express, which is a UK tabloid.

I'd put more faith in the Sunday Herald though...

[DoYouEverWonder]

197. No, they all point to reports from a Kurdish language wire service

The Sydney Morning Herald (another reliable source/not a tabloid) is reporting more on this story this morning. Has I said, in a previous post, the news of Saddam's capture came out of Iran via the Kurds. A week later it seems that the originial reports from Iran are still closer to the truth than anything that the Pentagon has cared to admit to. Too bad, the American media is doing everything they can to ignore the white elephant in the room and are all in a flutter about the lastest politically motivated raising of the terror alert.



http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/21/1071941612613.html

<snip>

However, in the early hours of Sunday, a Kurdish language wire service reported explicitly: "Saddam Hussein was captured by the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan. A special intelligence unit led by Qusrat Rasul Ali, a high-ranking member of the PUK, found Saddam Hussein in the city of Tikrit, his birthplace.

"Qusrat's team was accompanied by a group of US soldiers. Further details of the capture will emerge during the day; but the global Kurdish party is about to begin!"

<snip>

There has been no American response to the Kurdish claims.

An intriguing question is why Kurdish forces were allowed to join what the US desperately needed to present as an American intelligence success - unless the Kurds had something vital to contribute to the operation so far south of their usual area of activity.

[farmbo]

199. Kick

:kick:

[TheWebHead]

202. full Sunday Express article

someone posted it off lexis nexis
http://mlcastle.net/piracy/express.txt