Chicago Priests Revolt Against Vatican Anti-Gay Stand

[davidinalameda]

http://www.365gay.com/newscontent/122103priestRevolt.htm

[PackedForPerth]

1. Pity...

Pity we didn't see this level of revulsion about the pedophile issue. :eyes:

[Occulus]

2. It's the difference between

a dirty little secret and religion-inspired bigotry.

Dirty little secrets almost always get swept under the rug.

[Democrats unite]

3. Pity...

That we have either issue at all.

[xchrom]

4. the vatican, et al, is in a reactionary crises

the reaction that this pope directed toward ''liberation theology'' within the catholic church is having it's apex in it's relationship to gay people and sexuality.
it's trying to marry superstition and rationality into one clarifying ''moral document''.
can't be done.
the vatican wants to use normal sexuality as a way to re-exert extreme control over the lives of catholics.
the cat is out of the bag -- too many christians now know that all people are welcome at god's table. it's disheartening for fundies and practioners of a ''magic-based'' faith -- but it isn't going to change.
liberation theology isn't going away -- not in the episcopal church or the catholic church or any church that realizes all people are a reflection of the creator and deserving of the dignity that god intends for every one.

[Muddleoftheroad]

5. So which "superstition" are you citing here?

[xchrom]

6. that gay people are outside

of the christian faith in any way. whether in the sack or out.
gay people are not existing in more sin than any other person. we are entitled to marriage, the priesthood and full standing without regard to our sexuality. that one.
but i can guess you have some disagreement with that.

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. I don't agree with it, but why is it superstition

Isn't it a belief? What makes one belief superstition and another valid?

[xchrom]

8. it's basing the doctrine

on the literal. superstition based notions of purity.
much like the notion that women can't be priests.

[Muddleoftheroad]

9. But isn't that their right?

Making it an act of faith, not superstition.

[xchrom]

10. there it is

exactly what i was expecting -- faith is never an excuse for demonizing anyone. that's bigotry and hatred. it's bigotry and hatred wrapped in faith.
literalism in itself breaks one of the ten commandements for christians and turns the bible into an idol. a graven image.
the catholic church especially knows this -- but sees sex and sexuality as one of last holds on power over individuals it has.
this is an attempt to uphold a hierarchy -- an archaic and dead hierarchy at that.

[Muddleoftheroad]

11. So here it is

Basically, it's faith if YOU agree with their interpretation and superstition or wrong if YOU don't. Yeah, I got it.

[xchrom]

12. faith has nothing to do

with spreading bigotry -- something it looks like you belive in. that's what you have.

[Muddleoftheroad]

13. Again, despite your lame attempts at slamming me

I have said where I stand on this issue. However, it IS their right to disagree and believe in something else. You have not managed to delineate between the faith that they have and their position on this topic where we both disagree with them.

[xchrom]

15. muddle it is there right to be wrong

calling it faith is more than a serious disagreement -- faith like that gets gay folk killed.
that's where you stand on an issue like that.

[Muddleoftheroad]

16. Thanks for the lack of clarification

If someone is opposed to homesexuality because of their religion, even if I disagree (which I do), it is still their right to hold that belief.

Again, despite your protestations, you have no been able to differentiate one set of beliefs from another.

[xchrom]

17. only to the muddled

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. Wow, that was helpful...

lol

[xchrom]

19. your point of view can't be helped

it's right up there with people who didn't speak out against nazi atrocities.
that you can't see that is your problem. for all that you -- disagree with the doctrine{not faith} of the catholic church.
there's no viable defence for people who espouse points of view or faith or anything else that marginalizes and demonizes people and puts them at risk for their lives and or livelyhoods.

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. Viable defense

Many people have different beliefs. A huge number of religions believe homosexuality is wrong. THAT is their right. I choose to disagree, but I don't claim their belief is flawed. It is not my right to pick and choose the beliefs of others, especially religious beliefs.

[xchrom]

21. but enable them

[Gman]

14. Since the gay marriage issue seems to be primarily an American issue

I'm convinced that the American right wing has used its conservative contacts in the Vatican to bring the Vatican into this.

As a Catholic, I'd take what the Vatican says on this issue a bit more seriously if I saw the same rhetoric coming out of the Vatican on the death penalty or social justice. Lacking that, I can only conclude its political.