MSNBC: Intelligence: Bin Laden behind new terror threat

[kysrsoze]

New intelligence information indicates that al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and his top deputy personally approved the suspected terrorist attack plan that led the government to raise the nation's terror threat assessment this week, U.S. officials told NBC News on Tuesday.

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The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said U.S. intelligence agencies had gathered detailed information about the plan, in which they said al-Qaida operatives would hijack foreign airliners and fly them into targets in the United States. In some instances, the intelligence is so detailed as to include specific flight numbers, they said.

The Defense Department said Tuesday that it was broadening air patrols throughout the country. Security forces have put several U.S. airports under intense scrutiny, the U.S. officials told NBC's Jim Miklaszewski, specifically naming Newark International Airport in New Jersey.



The U.S. officials said the new intelligence indicated that bin Laden himself had approved the most recent plan for major attacks, along with Ayman al-Zawahiri, his deputy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3775771/

[grytpype]

1. But... but I thought....

Oh, forget it.

[VolcanoJen]

2. US intelligence is claiming it has *specific flight numbers*??

Whaaaa....?

If the intelligence is so detailed as to have specific flight numbers, then how can Ridge claim that there is no specific target, and how can major U.S. cities like NY, LA, DC, Las Vegas (heard that one today) claim that they have no specific threat information that their cities would be affected?

:shrug:

[VolcanoJen]

4. For example, did anyone ring up the sherriff of Tappahannock, Virginia?

From the article:

U.S. officials and terrorism experts said that while some of the potential targets might seem unusual, there was a method to al-Qaida’s plot.

For example, the officials said, al-Qaida seems particularly interested in Tappahannock, Va., a tiny town of 2,016 people with no military base or major infrastructure. Such an attack would be intended to generate widespread fear that no one was safe, even in small rural towns, they said.

Now, why in hell would al-Qaida be interested in a non-spectacular attack that could hardly cause many civilian casualties? What are they trying to sell us here?

[peekaloo]

5. maybe

“Just remember that al-Qaida is not just looking to kill as many Americans as possible. They’re looking to seriously hurt our nation’s economy,” terrorism specialist Roger Cressey, former chief of staff of the President's Critical Infrastructure Protection Board, said in an interview.
------------------
hmmmmmmm........what could blow a hole (so to speak) in this so called "economic recovery" other than another terra attack.

[The Zanti Regent]

31. What could blow a hole in the economy?

Well, what if...

1) foreigners stop buying treasury notes

AND

2) OPEC abandons the dollar for the Euro!

[kurtyboy]

32. Blowing a hole in the economy...

Lessee now....

CNN reported today that

every week

we are in ORANGE alert, one billion additional dollars are spent by governments across the nation---almost all of them local dollars. Where does the money come from? Not the Fed, which this year authorized only TWO billion for such circumstances, nationwide--and even that has yet to be fully (or even half?) disbursed to nearly-broke local agencies.

This current threat, they say, may last into February (at least five weeks), and it is the fourth such threat in about a year.

If I were in a cave in Pakistan, I think I might hear the following conversation...

"No, no. Let's wait until the American's holiday season to ramp up the chatter. Don't actually make any plans to operate--just ramp up the chatter. Include a few key cities, some nonsense, but make sure to throw in the word 'AIRLINER'. Allah be praised, they just go nuts when they translate that one. We'll have our investments in Euro's doubled in no time! Allah wills it..."

For the cost of a few long-distance phone calls and some simple internet emails, they can make us spend billions--and never hijack a single vehicle. Hell, while we worried about someone spending billions to get a nuke, they kicked our ass with a few thousand dollars worth of flight school and some $2.00 boxcutters.

That's all I'll say for now--I'm fucking tired.

Kurt

[kalian]

8. This is an Orwellian tactic....

and again...it would be a dumb-ass target for terrorists short
on cash IMHO.
Makes now sense whatsoever...

[VolcanoJen]

11. I agree, kalian

Honestly... I find it hard to believe that al-Qaida is interested in an attack that has a very low likelihood of being captured on videotape and shown over and over again to a terrified world.

I am starting to think that the threat is a little more "real" than usual, but I also know that intelligence can be very, very wrong about things.

Everyone, please have a safe and happy holiday. No matter what it is, it will pass...

[radwriter0555]

38. Couldn't agree more. They're trotting out the corpse of bin laden AGAIN

to monger fear amongst the people.

Fear = control of the masses, just like religion.

[DS1]

13. for what it's worth, my Psych professor roommate

Dr, no less, suggested that very same tactic would be most effective. Hit somewhere in Iowa and you have the whole damn country scared shitless, because there's nowhere safe.

[RainDog]

35. maybe that's where our "shadow govt"

has its hidey-hole...

[SadEagle]

19. And why would they reveal that they know that?

That seems like it could give away the level of infiltration, etc...

[loudnclear]

25. Like the "specific names" of the 9/11 highjackers who turned up alive

in other parts of the world.

[Cha]

3. But sadam is in custody!

The terror of Baghdad is no longer a menace! Isn't that why we killed all those innocent People so we could get rid of the #1 behind 9/11? :nuke: Or so people thought.

[economic justice]

6. Actually pretty scary

I am under no delusions that the threat is not real or that the current threat is something that should be the butt of jokes.

I am wondering if there is thought to canceling the State of the Union speech or handling it in a very different manner than putting the entire US government (minus a token cabinet member) under one roof? These days, if the threat is as real as they say, it would seem irresponsible to proceed with that prescription for disaster. Has anyone else given this any thought?

[kalian]

9. Its not at ALL scary....

what is scary is what is occupying the WH. What is scary the level
of lies that we're being told.

[Shadder]

41. No

Not for a single moment. They have already proven that they have read Tom Clancy once, no need to pull that one out again.

[VolcanoJen]

7. Aaaaarrrrrgghhh!!! See, this is what I find so disturbing.

Fun quotes:

U.S. Officials speaking to NBC reporter under condition of anonymity: "U.S. intelligence agencies have gathered detailed information about the plan, in which they said al-Qaida operatives would hijack foreign airliners and fly them into targets in the United States."

Tom Ridge: “If you’ve got travel plans, travel!*”

Ummm... who's on first? Who the hell is in charge here?

Absolutely infuriated,
Jennifer

* unless your travel plans include flying to the United States from a foreign land?

[economic justice]

10. Good point! Who's on first is a good analogy.....<eom>

[DS1]

12. OK, so umm, cancel a couple flights, problem solved

:eyes:

[VolcanoJen]

14. What?! And disrupt the flow of commerce? Give people the shivers?

Scoff!!

;-)

[economic justice]

16. Curious

In all sincerity....is it your position that there are NOT radical Islamic extremists who have carried out and still planning large-scale terrorist attacks on the USA?

I think the mixed messages as outlined above by Jen are true. But, I am not sure about being so cavalier about the threat itself. I am not flaming, I am actually trying to figure out the position of so many here. Do you believe there IS NO threat? If there IS, isn't it a damned if you and damned if you don't kind of thing?

[VolcanoJen]

20. Your question is a good one

I'm sure many Americans are weighing that right now. I consider myself to be an informed individual, but I'm beyond skeptical when it comes to this administration.

I'll honestly say that I'm more worried than usual that something is about to happen, just because the officials are appearing a little panicky and the press is a little breathless. I think something is up...

At the same time, I could also understand that the administration would take advantage of the fear such alerts cause. The lucid argument is the one that says we are no safer for having overthrown Iraq, but it would take a little more for most Americans to see that.

Since the recent intelligence about the attacks in Saudi and just before Turkey was pretty accurate, I'm definitely more concerned about this threat than the previous ones we've endured.

What really upsets me is that I should have to doubt the intentions of the highest office in the land, when it comes to my personal safety, and the safety of Americans everywhere. I won't feel one bit safer before Chimpy's out of office, that's for certain.

Regardless of what happens.

Just my nickle, economic justice!
- Jennifer

[lostnfound]

39. You are right -- but is "doubt" even the right word..

"What really upsets me is that I should have to doubt the intentions of the highest office.."
You said it exactly right. Yesterday I was fuming to a friend about Daschle appointing another PNAC insider to the 9-11 'cover-up' commission and my friend was saying, "I told you it was all a phony society" (he's lived through wars and did not 'grow up in a greenhouse' like I did) and started talking about how there's corruption everywhere from Wall Street to our local politicians.

He's right, of course, but I fumed back: I should at least be able to expect our president and top politicians wouldn't try to cover up the murder of 3000 Americans (well mostly Americans).
"What really upsets me is that I should have to doubt the intentions of the highest office.."

[kalian]

21. That's my belief....

there has NEVER been any "radical" muslim group behind ANY of this
bs.

But that's just me... :tinfoilhat:

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. The radical groups behind these threats

are not Muslims, they are more likely Americans.

Check out the rat's nest that I found today:

Code Orange: Is it based on an Internet Hoax?

[kalian]

27. Umm....ahem....

:wow:

Is this for real...? :wow: :wow:

[Old and In the Way]

29. Until we can have a full and open investigation on the events of 9/11

How do we really know anything about the root cause of terror? The official story has way too many holes and incongruities. The investigation is being slow walked and underfunded. Condi doesn't want to appear under oath to answer questions.

As far as I know, no one was reprimanded or fired for their inability to put 2+2 together. And this same group is still in charge...what's changed?

What I find interesting is why wasn't there this high level of threats happening before/during the invasion? Why is it as soon as Saddam is captured, we have these threats? And just what is this body of evidence and who is doing the analysis of the threat assessment? Check this thread out-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=953199&mesg_id=953199

[VolcanoJen]

30. Excellent, excellent post

I will say that for my money, Daleel Almojahid is a fictional government character, though.

Your point is absolutely excellent, though. Who are they to say the threat is as great now as it was on 9/11, when they ignored the threats that preceded 9/11? Have they not lost most of their credibility on the "threat assessment" skill?

:shrug:

[RainDog]

34. Yes, I think terrorists want to attack the U.S.

although some people on this board seem to discount any idea of an attack as part of a Bush deal.

I don't dismiss this one.

On the other hand, as someone said, OBL could simply use psy-ops on Americans.

And there is the issue of where the information is coming from...as we've seen before, the Bush administration has relied on dubious sources of information to justify a war, for instance.

nevertheless, terrorists, both foreign and domestic have attacked people in this nation in the past, and no doubt would like to do so again.

I do think that the Bush administration has handled the threat of terror in a way that makes the situation worse, not better, for the American psyche.

I also think that they have used terror threats in the past to advance their political goals.

I also know that they have tried to do everything they can to stymie an honest investigation into 9-11...so, as others have said, there are reasons to question whether anything which comes from this administration has any relation to the truth.

I also find it sickening to hear Ridge refer to America as "the homeland." It truly conjures images of der vaterland.

It's a shame that we have a govt which has proven itself so cynical and corrupt and unneccessarily and undemocratically secretive that they not worthy of the trust of the American people.

[BlueEyedSon]

15. Maybe if we had spent $87 Billion looking for UBL....?

[davekriss]

28. I wish people would stop saying $87b...

Bush already procured $79b for his war; the $87b is his second time at the till.

The total spent on Iraq instead of securing us from the real dangers of Al Qaeda is $166 billion (79+87).

[parasim]

17. All they need to do...

... is fake a hijacking and thwart it. Of course, all according to script.

Then the public at large will be grateful that they stopped a "terrorist attack" and *'ll gain a few percentage points in the polls. Keep doing this now and again until November and...

Or, if nothing, else it'll continue to distract the masses so they don't notice that * just opened up 300, 000 acres of Alaskan land for logging (as he did on Tuesday) or any number of other diabolical things they seem to be able to pull off on a regular basis.

Why else would they say "You bet your life" a potential attack is hanging above our heads and then at the same time tell us to "keep our travel plans" and go about our normal business?

[kalian]

22. That's a VERY big possibility.....

a "savior tactic" so to speak.

Unfortunately, this could become a reality quite soon and then
shrub and co. will be "gods" for the repukes and the sheeple...
:eyes: Oh man...what a nightmare scenario....

[Bronco69]

18. Looks like bush's* plan is working...

Keep em scared and keep em guessing.

[madrchsod]

23. dam i just got back from

shopping and dam!i should have stopped at the local farm store and got a shit shovel and boots. why the hell are they telling everyone? just stop the fuckers this time. but that doesn`t fit the plain

[Rainbows]

26. They must protect sources for 911 but ...

suddenly they can give detailed information from intel sources about this threat. If they know the flt. numbers why not intercept them in route from Europe? Even if the threat is real, why is it handled like a side show. More of the same plastic turkey just another day.

If you were OBL and you wanted to strike at the heart of America, would you allow all this intelligence chatter right before the show, or would you handle it all through ground couriers? They have those you know.

If I were the demented OBL the only reason for all the chatter would be a diversion while I set of a dirty bomb in the heart of D.C. just close enough to the capitol and White House to insure all were affected. The heart of the enemies government in total disarray for how long? Or how 'bout contaminating Wall Street on a busy day?

There are too many ways to effectively cause more damage both physical and psychological without using airplanes afer telling your foe how and approximatly when you are coming. Unless they fake something, it's a Christmas plastic turkey during seasonal prime time for maximum memory and effect.

[bluedeminredstate]

33. My head is about to explode!!

I don't want the fear of the Boogeyman running my life, but I also want to believe that government wouldn't use a psy ops on the public and that there is a need for this warning.

However, saying that, I don't believe Goddamn word that comes from any agent or member of this administration which has used September 11th so effectively as a political tool of war, bullying and repression of speech in this country.

I've lost my faith in my country and I am so immensely sad about that because it makes me instinctively doubt the government I aways thought was there to protect me.

:cry:

[grasswire]

36. hmmmmm

"I also want to believe that government wouldn't use a psy ops on the public..."

Try researching "Project Mockingbird" and "MK-Ultra."

[lostnfound]

40. Cheer up

:grouphug: It is maddening isn't it?
I keep telling myself there's some grand teleological reason for all of this, like we are spirits that must learn important lessons like standing on our own feet and thinking for ourselves; or recognizing that the only way forward in life is ...what?: truth & light? Bury greed? Trade comfort for integrity?:shrug:

When that doesn't work there's an evening glass of brandy and some good poetry. :beer:

Actually, if people in general began to doubt their government more and get involved, that in itself is a step towards real democracy; and a step towards ridding our nation of the darkest evils that it possesses. Keep turning on those lights.

[xchrom]

37. osama and bush still working together

that's what this all sounds like to me.
neither one has to cause any actual injury to get what they want.
a big bonus if they do.
6 o' one half a dozen of the other.

[leesa]

42. Oh right. Just like the first time right Georgie?

Did your buddies the bin Ladens tell you that?

[2cents]

43. recycling o'slammy?

they're really scraping the bottom of the fear barrel on this one.

distraction overkill, imho.

lol, maybe the BFEE's idea of having holiday fun is seeing how high they can make us jump.