Lieberman Talks Up Religion as Democrats Poke, Jostle, Warn and Joke

[Rose Siding]

Lieberman Talks Up Religion as Democrats Poke, Jostle, Warn and Joke

PORTSMOUTH, N.H., Dec. 23 — Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut called on Tuesday for strengthening the role of religion in public life and took a veiled swipe at Howard Dean, who has run a steadfastly secular campaign.

"I know that some people believe that faith has no place in the so-called public square," said Mr. Lieberman, an observant Jew. "They forget that the constitutional separation of church and state, which I strongly support, promises freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Some people forget that faith was central to our founding and remains central to our national purpose and our individual lives."

The comment came on a day of pushing and pulling for the soul of the Democratic Party. Dr. Dean, the former governor of Vermont, said he needed the support of conservatives, while Senator John Edwards of North Carolina scolded his rivals for bickering. Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio unveiled an advertising campaign, and Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts wrapped up a 24-hour, 645-mile trip across Iowa.

Mr. Lieberman, who spoke to reporters after helping serve lunch to homeless people at a church here, has been trying to paint himself as a centrist more in step with the political mainstream than Dr. Dean. In emphasizing the need to connect with voters though the language of values and faith, Mr. Lieberman is trying to yoke himself to the legacy of Bill Clinton and the centrist Democratic Leadership Council, Mr. Clinton's springboard to the presidency.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/24/politics/campaigns/24TRAI.html

[Union Thug]

1. Lieberman Republican LITE?

Geezus.. LITE? Lieberman is Republican, pure and simple. Strengthening the role of religion in public life?

This atheist leaning agnostic doesn't like the sound of this. I don't mean to offend anyone, but please, can we just drop this fairy tale crap and live in reality...? I mean, spirituality is one thing, but the word religion carries a much more robust and oppressive set of baggage with it.

Blah.. bluster... hrmph..

[Born Free]

4. sign of desperation...

Some people tend to turn to god when all else fails. Lieberman is so desperate he needs to pull a rabit out of his hat, unfortunately he keeps coming up empty handed. He knows he can't get democrats so he is hoping to get right wing nut republicans, using their favorite lines. However, the right wing nuts have their man in control and are not going to risk giving that up for someone like Lieberman that occassionally thinks about what he is doing, they prefer an idiot that only follows the myths. Lieberman would do better adapting his message to get the Greens.

[trogdor]

22. So he's going after the Republican vote in open-primary states.

Real smart. Not.

Anyway, it won't work. Nobody likes Lieberman very much, not even conservatives.

[dolstein]

31. So those who are openly religious MUST be Republican?

If that's true, our party is in deep trouble.

[IndianaGreen]

2. What a lying, ignorant puke!

We can now add ignorance to the list of Lieberman's less-endearing attributes!

Religion has always been in the public square! The public square is any public space used for dissemination of ideas. Religion has never been barred from a role in the public square.

The restriction has always been in the public sector. In Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, Jefferson spoke of a wall separating church from state. James Madison warned about the corruption of liberties that any entanglement of religion and state would lead to. Public schools were always protected from such an entanglement.

Social conservatives such as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Bill Bennett, Pat Buchanan, to Billy Graham's racist son Franklin Graham, are on a crusade to turn America into their version of a Christian theocracy. They want to turn America into a Christian Taliban republic!

Joe Lieberman is joined at the hips of these intolerant and antidemocratic fascist cabal.

Lieberman is as much a threat to our freedoms as John Ashcroft!

[Khephra]

5. Don't forget the Jefferson Bible

In which Jefferson took out the "miraculous" events and turned Jesus's life into one more palatable to Deists.

[tbeatty]

24. freedom of religion?

I always thought the idea was that the state had no business establishing religion either in the public square or forum. Freedom of religion or from religion is no difference, the state shouldn't establish it nor should it squelch it. Keep it out of the lawbooks, the policeman and the courts. Everywhere else it's an individual preference.

But public schools are an interesting forum. How many public schools were there when Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists? It is my understanding that education was left mainly to the churches and happened in the local church. I thought most of what we consider "public schools" happened during FDR. What FDR did was a great thing and brought high school education to practically everyone in the country. But before that, education was the pervue of the church. I would be inclined to think, but don't know, that Jefferson would consider public, secular education an infringement on the separation of church and state.

[Terwilliger]

29. so, because education used to be left to the church...

it's now violating the separation of church and state to offer people an alternative?

[regnaD kciN]

3. "Freedom of religion, not freedom from religion"...

...is one of the standard buzzphrases of the Religious Right, right up there with "Evolution is just a theory" and "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!"

Now, I'm not saying Lieberman is a Religious Right stooge, and I'm not saying that Lieberman is not a Religious Right stooge. The fact remains, though, that if a politician were to use a buzzphrase of the KKK, such as "mud people" or "preserving our white heritage," he or she could easily be seen as part and parcel of their group.

:puke:

[mumon]

17. Yeah- VERY offensive line!

You CAN'T have "freedom of" without "freedom from!"

If there is no "freedom from" religion, you can't freely choose ANOTHER religion, or none at all!

Liberman's really repugnant to religious freedom, and should apologize for this outburst of bigotry.

[Terwilliger]

30. what you just said and your avatar made me think of this picture

from August when I was in Seattle for the Hemp festival there:

[BiggJawn]

6. I'm speechless! Which is just as well....

...in order to keep this thread out of the Cesspool.

"Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion" is indeed one of the battle-cries of the Taliborn-again.

Give it up, Joe. How many Democrats you willing to lose in order to atract ReTHUG "cross-over" votes?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

7. Somebody should ask him if he agrees...

...with that infamous Bush I quote about atheists.

[enki23]

8. joe, you f**king idiot

you can't *have* freedom of religion without freedom from religion

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leesa]

10. Would that be the religion of Bombing Muslims Everywhere

What a bunch of phonies most religious people are...just a cloak for their various hates, fears and bigotries.

[Lucille]

11. Shorter NYT: Dems are a bunch of silly kindergarteners

except for Joe Lieberman, who's a prim, sanctimonious Sunday School teacher.

[edzontar]

12. Three more GIs dead in Iraq today...

Happy holidays from Pres. Bush and his ardent supporter.

[fjc]

13. A steadfastly "secular" campaign?

Maybe he'd like Dean to cop a contact with God, like the governor of Connecticut. This is so transparently expoitative of religion for political purposes that it raises a direct question as just how religious Lieberman actually is. I think now his religion extends only as far as his political ambitions.

[wakfs]

15. He's very religious...

...for a Jewish public figure that is.

He's also very wrong about a lot of things. Put the yarmulke away, Joe. Do us all a favor. (No offense intended against my Hebrew brethren, CT non-practicing Jew here).

[fjc]

20. Yeah, well,

to me at least part of being religious, perhaps the most important part, is that you don't subjugate it to politics.

[Malva Zebrina]

14. I think Lieberman had just better leave

He is a little off base. If he thinks this country was "founded" on religion, he had better do a little more studying of American history. The Puritans did not "found" this country.

I applaud Dr. Dean for sticking to a strict secular campaign. That is a relief for me. It was quite sickening in the last campaign. If Dean does get the nomination, let's see if George will play the born again religion card. I don't see Clark, like Dean, playing that card either. Looks to me like only Lieberman is willing to play that card. If George does play the religion card, you can bet he will find a more than worthy opponent to challenge him on all his actions as president, re his born again religious beliefs -- one smarter , quicker and superior in intelligence--any one of the nine, excluding Lieberman, let's say eight, is up to it.

[wryter2000]

16. Dammit

We do not have a religious government. When, oh when, is the moron going to go away?

[robcon]

18. Way to go, Joe!

Joe is the only candidate who proudly carries the mantle of the Clinton presidency. He is fearless, loyal and wise.

Joe has a great chance of beating *, but, unfortunately, has little chance of winning the nomination.

[lumpy]

19. Lieberman ,

leave my faith, my values, my morals alone, as well as my body. These things have nothing to do with the job of President of the US.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[Kolesar]

28. You live in Connecticut. You write a LTTE to a local paper!

Excuse me for ordering you around :), but this sleazeball needs to be kicked down when he gets out of control. If you want help, pm me.

[stickdog]

25. RW Christian nuts to Lieberman, "Nice try, Joe, but you still killed

Jesus."

[Bandit]

26. And what would Jesus say I wonder ~ "Give unto Rome etc."

It seems even their beloved Jesus wanted religion and government kept seperate.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dolstein]

32. So you agree that Dean is too secular to win in the South

Doesn't that mean that Lieberman is doing the Democratic Party a favor by exposing Dean's weakness? C'mon -- do you honestly think the Republicans won't make an issue of this in the general election if Dean gets the nomination? Sounds to me like someone's gotta stop Dean.

[trapper914]

33. Let me get this straight...

...if someone wears their religion on his sleeve, he should be admired. If he doesn't, it's a political liability. Now, tell me, which looks worse politically...keeping one's personal, religious views to himself, or exploiting those religious beliefs in an effort to win votes. WWJD?

[Kolesar]

36. Being "secular" is a liability for Dean, and Joe is doing the Gop's work

Being "secular" is a liability for Dean, and Joe is doing the Gop's work

One More Time:

Because Dean does not do all that phoney "invoking of God", Dean will have a hard enough time selling himself in the south and in my part of the country too (shudder). There was an article on this in www.slate.com a week or so ago. Someone's gotta stop <candidate> Joe.

Now an answer to your question, Dolstein. According to the slate article and some news political analyst I saw on Cspan a week ago, Dean will not connect with some voters. My opinion is that Dean does not have an impossible task.

According to the slate article, all this "religious stuff" started with Jimmy Carter when he was running for president. Thanks a lot Jimmy.

And whether Joe is doing the party a "favor" by gleaning Dean from the candidates because he has a glaring weakness: my opinion is that Lieberman is a shameless opportunist. He has about zero charisma and his speeches do not at all connect with any of the electorate he has faced. The only poll numbers he has is a result of name recognition from when Gore mistakenly put him on the ticket. He is sowing trouble in the Democratic party. Whether Joe is doing the party a "favor" is just a little too dry and a little too convoluted to think of it as long term planning.

Joe's manipulation of the Cuban american issue was shameless. He is a tool of the Connecticut insurance industry from what I have been told. I was glad that I was out of the country when he made his bullshit religious comments at the 2000 convention. I hope that he is fleshed out of the politics forever in the process of losing the nomination. I hope Connecticut can get a Democratic Senator to replace him.

[sleipnir]

34. Lieberman needs to crawl back under the rock he came from.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[Eric J in MN]

37. Americans United for Separation of Church and State

Americans United for Separation of Church and State might disagree with Lieberman's implication that the government should promote religon.

Check them out:

http://www.au.org/

[pinto]

38. Hey Joe, let's get to the point, I support freedom from religion, so what?

and this from an Irish Roman Catholic who gets daily walking papers from the Pope himself. Ugh, to the x squared.

[Larkspur]

39. Since Lieberman is my senator, I have this to say

And right now I plan on voting for Lilith in 2006 for senator.

Can purchase the bumpersticker above at www.Azuregreen.biz