Bible Belt missionaries set out on a 'war for souls' in Iraq

[kskiska]

American Christian missionaries have declared a "war for souls" in Iraq, telling supporters that the formal end of the US-led occupation next June will close an historic "window of opportunity".

Organising in secrecy, and emphasising their humanitarian aid work, Christian groups are pouring into the country, which is 97 per cent Muslim, bearing Arabic Bibles, videos and religious tracts designed to "save" Muslims from their "false" religion.

The International Mission Board, the missionary arm of the Southern Baptists, is one of those leading the charge.

John Brady, the IMB's head for the Middle East and North Africa, this month appealed to the 16 million members of his church, the largest Protestant denomination in America.

"Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close.

more…
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/12/27/wirq27.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/12/27/ixhome.html

[roguevalley]

1. This infuriates the crap out of me. I don't impose my religion on

anyone and evangelizing it to people of other faiths
is religious fascism. I wonder how many of those freaks
are going to come home in boxes? How many soldiers are
going to get killed going over to pull them out of a
riot?

This could be the fuse that lights to nuke that takes
us all out.

[Just Me]

68. Just another "power-feeding" for the power-hungry,...

,...need to deal with powerlessness. Same ole, same ole human weakness in facing the unknown and death. If only they/we would accept both (the unknown and death) as part of our existence. Then, no one could hold any power over us or divide us with fear. BUT,...this is our life,...still,...

[caledesi]

75. I feel the same way. The Iraqi culture and religion is very intertwined.

I don't believe in this "conversion" stuff. You know, give some starving people a can of spaghettios, then tell them how it came more Christ and then start w/ the videos and bibles. Makes me sick!

[mbperrin]

2. Funny, ain't it, how God would "close a door"

that they just got prayed open?

Why the hell doesn't God just talk directly to those folks if he's so damn interested in them?

Or......maybe he already has..........

[starroute]

3. The nice part is that it puts Bush on the spot

"The missionaries pose a dilemma for President George W Bush. He has reached out to Muslims since September 11, shrugging off criticism from evangelicals to describe Islam as 'peaceful'. But Christian conservatives are also a key Bush constituency: Franklin Graham delivered the invocation prayer at his presidential inauguration."

The less nice part is that some of these idiots are likely to find themselves in major trouble.

[pinto]

4. re: International Mission Board (So. Baptist)

"Medical outreach in Iraq may be key to permanent missions outreach"

http://mnn.gospelcom.net/article/5342

"What we look forward to is long term relationships where we can talk about Jesus Christ with these people."

http://mnn.gospelcom.net/article/5462

"God will have His way in Iraq, Brady said. Christian workers from South Korea, Brazil and many other lands are coming to Iraq to share the gospel. But he said, "I am jealous to see Southern Baptists be a part of God's plan for Iraq. I am praying Southern Baptists will respond to this opportunity, because they are about seeing God's Kingdom grow. I am jealous for Southern Baptists, not to be the only ones working, but not to be left out."


http://www.imb.org/urgent/articledetail.asp?urgentID=57

[TrogL]

22. "have his way"

wasn't that an old euphenism for rape?

[sendero]

32. "God will have his way"?

I'm sure he needs a bunch of fascist flunkies to carry out His will.

These folks are opening yet another hornet's nest and the rest I want to say is too inflammatory...

[JPace]

5. Maybe it was a Crusade....

under the guise of WMD's.

This is just too much, don't they
know they are not welcome over there
and besides that it is just too
dangerous.

They are targets....asking to be victims.

[TankLV]

48. So when, not if, these wackos get killed, we should feel sorry for them?

Not me!

This is just pure insanity. They should be BANNED from any such thing there until this so-called "war" is over - they are interfering with this so-called "war" effort!

I wonder if peace activists will be allowed to go, to?

But, then again, are we at all the least surprised by all this?

[TrogL]

58. Yes, feel sorry for them

They've been duped by people they trusted. They had no way of knowing differently because they live in an echo box.

[caledesi]

76. I don't feel sorry for them one bit. They know the risks of going

to a Muslim country, so if they get killed...well, they martyred themselves for Jesus.

[TrogL]

90. The kids aren't told

Teenagers are told they are going somewhere to save souls, given a stack of Bibles and sent off "to do the Lord's work" without the slightest bit of training.

It's not their fault. Blame the parents not doing something about RRR preachers.

[saigon68]

6. SOMEONES GOING TO HAVE THEIR ASS KICKED

Blown away---whatever

LOL

This should be met with Flowers Thrown and Cheers?

[leftchick]

28. exactly what I am thinking....

may as well put targets on their backs..... :eyes:

[AntiCoup2K4]

93. The good news there is.....

...they won't be around to vote for Dipshit next year (somebody had to say it. )

[burrowowl]

7. The Iraqis

don't need another WAR!

[NickB79]

8. I give them 5 minutes, 10 tops

Before they're gunned down. Have these people not noticed that the Iraqis do not take kindly to foreign nationals invading their country, much less interfering with their religious beliefs? Someone who is so devoted to their religion that they are willing to sacrifice their own life in a suicide bombing will not take kindly to this assault on their belief system.

[reprobate]

33. Does Christianity really NEED more martyrs?

We just hope that no american soldiers are caught in the trap. These idiots must be responsible for their own blunders. Don't ask us to pull your fat out of the fire.

[chasqui]

41. Sure, why not?

Missionaries destroy local cultures. Their work is very damaging to local populations. If they get shot at, or get hassled in any way, they have it coming.

[TrogL]

66. Not all missionaries destroy culture

See post #65

[IndianaGreen]

71. Read the history of Hawaii

for starters, before you give such a blanket announcement. By its very definition, proselytizing contaminates local culture and traditions.

[aquart]

9. Penance for the flaming sword of Islam?

What goes around, comes around?

[number6]

10. Goofy Religious nuts ....

:crazy::crazy::crazy:

[TreasonousBastard]

11. A similar group...

tried this in Afghanistan and met with a particularly dreadful fate.

As have others who have tried this in Muslim countries where Christian missionary work is illegal.

Iraq had been fairly well secularized, so they may not have the problems they've had in other places, but they are not in for an easy time.

IIRC, the other group used health and education work as a cover for their real goal, and when the adults didn't listen to them, told the kids their parents were going to hell. Needless to say, this pissed off the parents.

Note that missionaries have been doing good work for centuries, and many, if not most, have balanced their ecumenical fervor with actually building schools and medical facilities. Their goal is to save lives, and souls will tend to take care of themselves.

It's this sneakiness that causes problems.

[WillyT]

12. But Hey, Remember, It's NOT A Crusade.. Nope, Not, Nada, No Way, Never !!!

:mad::nuke::grr:

[moondust]

13. Is the U.S. taxpayer paying for their protection?

We should not have to pay to protect these fools. They are not on government business.

[Malva Zebrina]

27. if they get faith based money we are eom

[PurityOfEssence]

14. You're either with us or against us

My big worry since before the invasion was about what would happen when some ill befalls some of the doe-eyed missionaries. If this galvanizes more and more into an interfaith struggle, one will have to side with the Christians in this country or be an enemy combatant.

Simplistic thinking and belief don't bode well for the future.

Once religion gets a toehold into government, too, it's hard to get it out.

So great, a bunch of bumbling ideologues have forced themselves into a truly complex situation. There's martyrdom a-plenty to be had there; the easiest way to coalesce anti-American hatred there is if our "mission" can be convincingly portrayed as one of blasphemous conquest.

Amazing.

[corporatewhore]

15. Just great give another reason for them to attack us

i think i would after enduring a psycopath like saddam (which we put into power and gave weapons to) twelve years of sanctions and another round of bombing an occupation and then on topof that having people stuff falwell and robertson down their throats i think i would have a break down

[jburton]

16. An awkward Missionary Position, for sure!

Thank you, you've been a great audience.

[NJCher]

17. next time you hear about this crowd will be...

in an e-mail, subject heading: Darwin Awards


Cher

[IndianaGreen]

18. May they go to their Heavenly reward!

and good riddance when they do!

Thank you for posting your Christian Crusade posters, which will recruit more people to the Resistance.

[uhhuh]

19. What a bunch of chickens!

If they need U.S/U.K guns backing them up to preach Christianity, they must not have much faith that God will protect them, or that he wants them there. So what if it might be harder to get into Iraq when the Iraqis are running the government? If you were really dedicated to reaching the Iraqi people, you wouldn't have to worry about how to get to see them. God would take care of that, right?

[cliss]

20. Man, are they ever multi-taskers.

They covered every angle when they decided to go to war, didn't they? It's like they called every contributor to the right on the phone and made a deal.

They gave every part of Iraq to them. They turned over the oil to Halliburton. Rebuilding contracts went to KB&R, Bucktel and others. Other reconstruction contracts have been promised to some coalition members.

And now, it seems that even the people of Iraq have been given to the religious evangelists. They have got to be rubbing their hands at the prospect.

Don't forget: Billy Graham appeared when Bush needed answers, and he converted George at his father's home some years ago. We know how Billy Graham feels about Islam. He has called it an "evil religion".

Like the bumper sticker says, "God, help me from your followers".

[TrogL]

21. The Last Crusade

we all knew this was coming. Other than the oil, it was one of the main purposes of the war in Iraq.

So World War III is going to be a religious war after all.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Horrible article.

They're swarming in to take advantage of the fact the new government isn't in place, and able to keep them out.

Their total lack of identification with these people as fellow human beings is astounding. They are simply "foreigners" to them, as strange to them as if they all were gigantic beetles.

Their sense of superiority, their view the others are low, unworthy, and evil just blows me away. This attitude has been around a long time, hasn't it? It's about time the world saw some change in human relationships.

All the changing has to be done by "the others." It's always "the others" who are completely F'd up, isn't it? We're all so lucky to be completely good, aren't we?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bonus quotes from Praise the Lord Club's Tammy Faye Bakker:

"I take Him shopping with me. I say, "OK, Jesus, help me find a bargain.""

"You don't have to be dowdy to be a Christian."

http://www.creativequotations.com/one/1360.htm


Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker, before the fall

[Judi Lynn]

24. Actually, good article, containing unpleasant news! Sorry. n/t

[0007]

25. Why isn't Ann Coulter in this photo?

"Kill off the all Islam leaders and convert the children to Christianity"

If Ann thought Joseph McCarthy was a great guy that was misunderstood, then I wonder what she'd say about Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker? I know the answer to that one!. They're the real saints of Christianity, and Mother Theresa was just a commie loving left winger.

[TankLV]

50. But at least Tammy has done a lot of good since.

NT

[Judi Lynn]

54. Probably deep, relentless shame has driven her

to TRY to atone for raping and pillaging their poor, uneducated followers, economically, and spiritually.

A week in stocks or a pillory would be about right!

[NNN0LHI]

26. Why do they hate us? n/t

[loudnclear]

29. Notice who always uses "war" talk.

The "army of God"

[Judi Lynn]

30. Yes, I've noticed that, too

No more than when I was visited by a tag-team of proselytizers. As they were walking to their car, after getting a "no sale," I discovered one of them had left her Bible behind.

I grabbed it, and raced out to stuff it into her Bible-waving mitts, knowing that they could have easily stopped right back by, and gone another round, claiming to be back for the Bible.

As soon as she saw the Bible coming toward her, she cried out, "my sword!"

Never heard a Bible called a "sword" before that day. Quite odd, after all, isn't it?

[Fovea]

31. IBM

I will never buy another thing from them, and during my career I advised a lot of clients to use them.

[babzilla]

40. IMB not IBM

The International Mission Board, the missionary arm of the Southern Baptists, is one of those leading the charge.

John Brady, the IMB's head for the Middle East and North Africa, this month appealed to the 16 million members of his church, the largest Protestant denomination in America.

[54anickel]

34. The Lord works in mysterious ways. Perhaps they will be the ones

changed to give up their "absolute truth" belief system.
One can always hope.

[cowpie]

35. They are free to go if they choose

but wow, at least let the bodies cool off before rushing there. Another reason I can't stand evangelicals.

[bvar22]

36. Fundie Xtians in for a surprise!

Students of the Koran will know more about the life of Jesus than the brain washed idiots who claim to have been born again.

[Blue Gardener]

37. So when they get their butts in a jam..

I suppose our troops will have to rescue them instead of looking out for their own behinds. If they cared about the soldiers over there they would stay the hell out of the way and let them do their jobs. Sad part is if any of these idiots get killed, it will be the Muslims fault, and they will be made into martyrs by their cohorts back home.

[leesa]

38. The arrogance of these fake christian control freaks is astounding

May they get their reward.

[Malva Zebrina]

39. why are they so hung up on "war"? Everything has to be a "war" on

something. Now we have supposedly religious people engaging in rhetoric that is violent and that uses violent imagery in order to preach "peace"

This is, to me, merely another "business" that is going to exploit the newly conquored and occupied country.

[joefree1]

42. Borg-agains?

"Resistance is futile."

[Judi Lynn]

52. Beautiful! Borg-agains. n/t

[goforit]

43. These demagods may be biting off more than they can chew.

I say let them see the other side.

Nothing like learning a good old fashion lesson in
"experience".

[ThoughtCriminal]

44. I am bothered that Fundamentalists

will be the only version of Chritianity that they will be exposed to. In my view, this gang is completely contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

[Malva Zebrina]

46. actually, Iraq does have a Catholic population

and had one under Saddam.

[oldcoot]

47. Iraq already has Christians

However, these missionaries may refuse to recognize many Iraqis as Christians because they are Catholics and these missionaries have a very narrow view of what is or is not a Christian. You may have caught that "wonderful" line in the article about "pseudo-Christian" groups flooding Iraq.

I am afraid that this is simply just another example of the United States shooting itself in the foot. Our government is so in love with the idea of faith-based-charities that it is not seeing the larger picture. The Iraqis already mistrust the United States and the presence of missionaries will only make the situation worse. Their presence will endanger coalition troops and Christian Iraqis. The soldiers have enough to worry about without these idiots showing up. Not only will the soldiers be expected to protect them but the soldiers will probably end up having to clean any messes they create. Terrorist groups will be able to use these missionaries to appeal to those Muslims who really believe that this war was a religious crusade.

I also fear for Iraq's Christian population. Under Hussein, Iraqi Christians were allowed some religious freedom. Unfortunately, their future is no longer certain. Iraqi Muslims may associate Iraqi Christians with the Southern Baptists and assume that Iraqi Christians are also interested in converting them. They may be less willing to tolerate Iraqi Christians in the future. Moreover, they may view any new religious converts with suspicion. Of course this will not effect these missionaries. After all, they will have returned to the safety of the United States where they will entertain their friends with stories about how they saved those "heathen" Iraqis.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

55. That's what fundie missionaries have done in Russia

Never mind that Russia has a literally thousand-year-old Christian tradition. It's not the right flavor.

Now the culturally sensitive thing for the fundies to do would have been to ask the Orthodox Church what it needed and then supply it. I'm sure the Orthodox would have appreciated funds to restore some of the historically and artistically significant churches that were trashed under Stalin.

But no, the fundies have to go and indulge in "sheep stealing," the practice of wooing people who are already Christians and convincing them that theirs is the wrong kind. Yes, the wrong kind with a distinguished millennium-long tradition of art, music, literature, and mysticism.

[IndianaGreen]

45. "The Muslim religion is an antichrist religion." Well, so is Judaism!

According to the fundamentalists' own theology, as quoted in the article:

He describes Islam as "false". He cited St John's Gospel, saying: "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist."

Mr Hanna concluded: "The Muslim religion is an antichrist religion."

The Telegraph

Well, Judaism also rejects the divinity of any man, including Jesus. According to these pukes, who once said that God did not listen to the prayers of Jews, we are also an antichrist religion.

I think we should send all of those missionary pukes to Iraq, and leave them there without any protection, their lives not worth one drop of our soldiers' blood. If God really loves them, He wouldn't let Iraqi bullets harm them in any way. What a better testament to their faith!

[TrogL]

60. So is every other religion that isn't "Bible based"

ie. strict literal reading of the bible with all its inconsistencies and errors in science.

Hence, they've got it in for:

• Roman Catholics
  
• the Anglican community (includes Episcopalean)
  
• the Christian Orthodox churches (as noted above) including Coptic
  

and a whole list of others (whom I fail to mention only because I don't want to get it wrong)

[Zhade]

49. These fools are signing their own death warrants.

If they do wind up dead...oh well. They shouldn't be doing this.

[jokerman93]

51. This is a political powder-keg

If these missionaries become the victims of violence in Iraq, the fundamentalist population in Amerikaland will have their first martyrs and saints of the Apocalypse. They want to have proof that Christians are being persecuted -- and the war against Islam is a just and holy war.

There will be a hell-cry for blood against the idolaters and more war is what the Neocons want. They gotta keep the fires burning -- even justify the draft against the horrible enemies of God we are confronting!

I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say these missionaries are literally lambs to the slaughter.

Toast.

[dawn]

53. This is awful. Missionaries are a plague on this earth.

It was eye-opening, traveling to Asia and seeing missionaries and Mormons travel all over Thailand, trying to convert "heathen" Buddhists to their religion.

I wish these kinds of Christians would just live and let live. Or learn from the Eastern faiths, which encourage you to find your own path and accept all religions with open arms.

I really don't know what can be done about this.

[karlschneider]

56. Bill Shakespeare said something about lawyers...

:eyes:

[TrogL]

64. Missionaries have done their fair share of good

and no, I'm not arguing both sides of the street.

There's a right way and wrong way of doing missionary work.

Basically it comes back down to "works" vs. "faith".

These people like to go over, destroy the existing social framework, leaving a vacuum (and a coupla dusty Bibles) in their wake leaving the door open for fascism.

[neverforget]

57. I hope thousands of missionaries go over

there and don't come back. They can stay there as far as I'm concerned.

[jamesarg]

59. God is moving in Iraq.

I am a Democrat and I gave my life to Jesus when I was 18, that is three years ago. Everyone needs to know Jesus as their savior, not just Republicans, but Democrats, Communists, Libertarians, Socialists, Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Born again Christians, Agnostics, Athiests, nothings. It doesn't matter what you say your religion is or political party is, you need Jesus to save you from your sins. I am helping to prep some of those young missionaries who will be going over there, and yes I am a Democrat because I believe in the party, even if leftists athiests in the party don't believe in me.

- James

[NickB79]

61. Allah is moving in the US

I am a Democrat and I gave my life to Mohammad when I was 18, that is three years ago. Everyone needs to know Mohammad as their savior, not just Republicans, but Democrats, Communists, Libertarians, Socialists, Jews, Catholics, Born again Christians, Agnostics, Athiests, nothings. It doesn't matter what you say your religion is or political party is, you need Mohammad to save you from your sins. I am helping to prep some of those young missionaries who will be coming over here, and yes I am a Democrat because I believe in the party, even if leftists athiests in the party don't believe in me.

It all sounds the same when it comes from fundamentalist sources, doesn't it?

[TrogL]

62. You are sending them to their deaths

and you're implying that only Republicans know Jesus as their saviour. (sarcasm on) How very Christian of you. (sarcasm off)

Have you even bothered to find out what happens to "missionaries" under Sharia law?

[Jazzgirl]

63. Sorry James that you are so misguided but

you can't go telling people who have a different culture and religion that your beliefs are superior to theirs. Besides being dangerous its...stupid!. All you're doing is helping a bunch of innocent kids go over and get themselves killed. The best thing you can do is try to talk those kids into staying out of a situation they don't even need to be in!

Jazzgirl

[oldcoot]

74. You need to think this out

TrogL and Jazzgirl are right to warn you about the dangers that you are exposing your missionaries to. Realize that Americans are not the most popular people in Iraq. Many Iraqis justifiably blame the United States for the poor conditions there such as high unemployment and a lack of basic services. Many have suffered greatly because of this invasion. They have lost their homes and their loved ones. They are also suspicious about the motives for the invasion. Members of this board have posted numerous articles about the fact that the Bush administration has not kept its promises to the Iraqi people. Now why should the Iraqis welcome a couple of spoiled American kids who think that they know what's best for them?

You should also think about the people you want to convert. Your missionaries will probably have some success converting some Muslims. However, anyone who chooses to convert to your brand of Christianity will be taking enormous risks. First, any Iraqi who regularly associates with Americans is risks being labeled a collaborator. Do you know what frequently happens to collaborators during a time of war? Their fellow countrymen view them as traitors and kill them. You also do not know how their families will react to having a Christian in the family.

[Blue Gardener]

82. Unbelievable Arrogance

These people already have their own religion, what they don't need right now is your proselytizing. And no, I don't need Jesus to save me from my sins. If that works for you, fine, but stop trying to tell me and everyone else what you think we need. Maybe you could try reading about other religions and cultures before reaching such a definite conclusion at such a young age.

[Bertha Venation]

94. jamesarg, all due respect...

...I was exactly like you for so many years, firm in my belief that Jesus was the only "way."

Time and experience taught me a lot. You're young. You'll be hurt desperately, and you'll learn.

I don't mean to sound condescending. I just wish to suggest that you look beyond what you are so very sure of this moment to realize that as a matter of fact, there is more. God is so much bigger than you think God is.

[sujan]

95. your arrogance will not help you in life

[TrogL]

65. I'm getting really tired of people lumping all missionaries together

Many churches send missioniaries abroad, mostly to under-developed countries. Most are attempting to do "good works". They:

• build schools
  
• build hospitals and clinics
  
• build infrastructure (roads, wells, sewage treatment)
  
• build housing
  
• teach agriculture
  
• teach modern medicine
  
• teach math, science and agricultural teachers (my parents did that for several years (not as missionaries))
  
• drive people to clinics and government offices
  

after the work is done, then they get the Bibles out. To borrow an AA phrase, it's by "attraction not advertisement".

A co-worker of mine (from a moderate fundie church) was looking forward to spending his vacation digging ditches. Even he understood the need to help first, preach second.

On the other hand, my partner has talked to many hard-core fundie kids about to go over to Africa on "missionary work". They have zero concept of the culture, the conditions or of any meaningful work that could be done over there. They'd hurt themselves with a hammer. They go on and on about how they're going to "save souls" with a stack of Bibles. Not a word about helping.

[IndianaGreen]

69. Proselytizing is wrong!

It was wrong to convert the African slaves to Christianity as it was to convert Hawaiians. I won't even go into the horrors of proselytizing by the Spaniards and Portuguese in the Americas.

On edit:

I highly recommend the following book. It is a terrific book. Read the part about "rice bowl" Christians.

[NNN0LHI]

70. This is not a case of people needing some religion

These people have their own well established religion. There are NGO's who are not affiliated with any religion and who do great work. I also agree that there are religious organizations such as Catholic Charities http://www.catholiccharities-md.org/ who do some really great work. There are many others too. But I really do not think that this is either the time or the place for any proselytizing at all. Even after the work gets done. I fear proselytizing will only lead to continued violence and mayhem in this part of the world, and I would discourage anyone attempting to do so. History is not one our side on this one.

Don

[Jazzgirl]

80. Agree on the helping TrogL.

Helping is fine. Its great! That to me should be a church's main function. Just leave the "converting" out of it. Helping is a great opportunity to learn about another culture. But I wouldn't even try to convince Iraqi's to switch religions. They have just as much right to believe what they believe as Christians do. Remember....we're making them free!!??!!

Jazzgirl

[Lydia Leftcoast]

84. During the colonial era

the missionaries provided the ONLY schooling available to indigenous people in the colonized areas. (The civic authorities would have preferred to keep 'em ignorant and working in the mines or plantations.) In doing so, they trained the generation of leaders who took over after independence.

They also provided the only modern medical care.

In the very earliest days, missionaries tended to limit their charitable work to people who had converted to Christianity. This led to the phenomenon of "rice Christians," people who would pretend to convert in order to get food aid or whatever else the missionaries were providing. The missionaries recognized that this was spiritually dangerous, so they began offering their services to everyone, regardless of religion.

Today, wherever there is famine or war, you will find Catholic Charities, Lutheran World Relief, the Friends Service Committee, and Episcopal Relief and Development helping people without any religious requirements.

However, Iraq is a different case entirely. It has an educated population and had modern medical care and infrastructure before the sanctions and the wars. Furthermore, Muslims are particularly resistant to conversion, since "apostasy" (renouncing one's religion) is considered one of the worst possible sins in Islam. Converts have been killed in Pakistan.

Sending in a bunch of clueless suburban megachurch brats with their Four Spiritual Laws and little or no knowledge of Arabic language or Iraqi culture is a recipe for disaster. I don't doubt their sincerity, just their smarts.

[TrogL]

87. Four Spiritual laws???

:wtf: is that?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

89. Campus Crusade used to go around with these pamphlets

on The Four Spiritual Laws in the 1970s, trying to scare people into joining them.

Let's see if I can remember what they were:

1. People are utterly sinful.

2. God is just, so everybody deserves to go to Hell (only they called it "eternal separation from God") if judged on their own merits.

3. However, God is also loving, so he sent Jesus to take the punishment for the sins of all humanity.

4. But #3 goes into effect only if you "accept Jesus" and join us. Otherwise, it's "eternal separation from God" for you, buddy.

Okay, I'm paraphrasing and being cynical, but that's the basic idea.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

92. God: "Punishment of an innocent is better than no punishment."

I won't touch such God with a 10-parsec pole.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

91. I have the utmost respect

for religious charities that don't proselitize. Catholics, for example, do that a lot. Now, evangelicals, on the other hand...

[noonwitch]

96. They are not just looking for converts

They believe that Armegedon will come once every person on earth has heard the gospel preached. So even if no one at all converts in Iraq (and some will undoubtedly in order to get fed), they are serving Jesus and helping to speed up his day of judgement and their day of delivery from this evil world that so persecutes them on a daily basis.

But remember, it's only islamic fundamentalists who are delusional and dangerous.

[Ellen Forradalom]

67. How to win friends and influence people

....NOT!

[Corgigal]

72. Hostage Video

I hope I'm wrong on this however I bet we get to watch one of these tapes on the local news soon. Then the USA will be forking over big bucks to save these people, if we can. Bush and friends didn't care at all when journalist were being killed until Daniel Pearl. All the Fundie Iraq's have to do is grab a pretty little whitebread American crying on tape about missing Mommy and Daddy and we're going to be running all over town trying to save them.

Should be some type of special high risk insurance for rescues before they are allowed over there, or in any war area.

[Grins]

85. Been Done!!!

"All the Fundie Iraq's have to do is grab a pretty little whitebread American..."

They did...sorta.

Remember the press going nutzy over that young, blonde, female, Christian "volunteer" that went to Afghanistan to spread the word of Jesus many months before 9/11? As I recall, she was already in custody by that time, and no word to her parents back in the bible belt. (Well,...they were praying for her.) She was there when the US went after the Taliban. She was finally locked up in a shipping container in the middle of nowhere before she was turned over to the American troops. (The power of prayer no doubt...and Special Forces.) She was released just before Christmas as I recall. (Parents gave the standard, "Praise Jesus" line.) When she got back to the US, the media did a Jessica Lynch on her. Damned idiot then said she wanted to go back! Please go. And good riddance.

[starroute]

73. Moslems have never been susceptible to conversion

As far as I know it's all been the other way -- Islam has expanded continuously, and has almost never retreated. The only area I can think of which was Moslem at one time and became Christian is Spain -- and that took the Spanish Inquisition to arrange.

Christianity has been able to pick off African animists and East Asian Buddhists because it offers certain things in the way of fervor and promises of salvation that those more laid-back religions do not. Evangelical Protestantism has made inroads among Catholics and Eastern Orthodox because it is more populist and seems more "modern."

But if there is a pecking order among religions, then Islam has to be at the very top. It is more streamlined, more theologically coherent, and more intertwined with ordinary society than any other. Moreover, Islam is able to "explain" the nature and meaning of the message of Jesus, whereas Christianity has no clue as to the nature and meaning of the message of Mohammed.

Those poor missionaries don't have a chance.

[opihimoimoi]

77. Their presence will bring about the Holy War the BushCo guys want.

If we get into the big dog fight, millions will die and most of them will be in the Middle East. What the Bush guys don't realize is we are going to have to kill them all. OOps, perhaps this is what they really want?

[Mari333]

78. The Crusade! idiots

I wondered when they would start yapping about their crusade...I KNEW they were waiting to go in there and bother people..
they get whapped, tough shite. Let the chips fall where they may. Morons.

[Rainbows]

79. Isn't this a War Crime ...

We just can't insult Iraqis enough through normal colonial aggression.

[bvar22]

81. WOW. Anthrax Coulter is dictating foreign policy for bush*.

The USA has:

1) Bombed their cities.

2) Killed (or removed) their leaders.

3) And now we are converting them to Xtianity. (attempting anyway)


This is Ann Coulter's plan for dealing with inferior cultures and religions.
It is comforting to know that educated, level headed, thoughtful, compassionate, adults are in charge of our foreign policy.

[The Animator]

83. The Inqusition.. What a Show.. the Inquisition..

We shouldn't be sending bible thumpers to Iraq... We should be sending the PEACE CORPS! The government funded organization founded by John F. Kenedy. The peace core could help big time over there, without expecting anything in return. I think they could provide the first positive impression of Americans to the Iraqi people. With almost every other American organization they've come into contact with, they could receive help, but there's always a catch. Peace Corps.. no catch. It shouldn't be too difficult to get volunteers who speak the language.

Many Americans do not realize this, but around the world, people can spot an American from a mile away. If you get people who have been abroad for awhile, they learn ways to dress and act, so they don't apear so overtly American. Blending in better makes for harder targets. I think it would be a good message to send... that not all Americans are out to take advantage of them.

[mmm]

86. excellent !

I like it.

[Demeter]

88. Just What We All Need

A comic diversion. Let them go and get blown up. So much the better for the sanity of the rest of the world.

[KansDem]

97. That's ALL Iraq needs...

Thousands of clean-cut American youths wearing white, short-sleeve shirts and black ties, riding bicycles and carrying Bibles throughout Iraq. Bet they'll ride in pairs!

Will they be passing out copies of "The Watchtower?"

[pnziii]

98. Is it only christians?

I lived in Saudi and no one ever pushed Islam on me.
I have known Jewish people and they never pushed their relion on me.
I have know Buddists and atheists and was never told I had to believe what they claim.

But I always have Christians telling me I'm going to hell if I don't convert.

Why such the push to believe their religion is the best?

[truthspeaker]

99. it's a successful strategy for gaining converts

[missile_bender]

100. Seems to me missionary work is sinful

At the very least, there are sins of pride involved. Beyond that, missionary work is generally racist, doesn't respect other cultures or individuals, and often uses bribes and blackmai (not to mention propaganda an brain-washing) to get what they want.