A Bid to Ease Chávez's Power Grip

[question everything]

Source: The Wall St. Journal

A Bid to Ease Chávez's Power Grip
Students Continue Protests in Venezuela; President Threatens Violence
By JOSÉ DE CÓRDOBA
June 8, 2007; Page A4

CARACAS, Venezuela -- A student movement that has swept across Venezuela is posing a strong challenge to President Hugo Chávez's drive to extinguish independent power centers in the universities and media. Although Mr. Chávez continues to have a firm grip on the government, the student protests have demonstrated a broad uneasiness with his efforts to dominate Venezuelan society.

Mr. Chávez's approval ratings have fallen and suspicion of his intentions has grown among Venezuelans. He also hasn't responded to the protests in a way that resonates with the public, many of whom view the students with sympathy. Instead, he has threatened to use violence to put down the demonstrations. In Venezuela, as in most Latin American countries, students have played an outsized political role, including in the country's transition to democracy in 1958.

(snip)

The student protests were sparked by the closure in late May of an opposition television station, Radió Caracas Television, or RCTV. The students seek to convince Mr. Chávez to give up plans to remake Venezuela's educational system. The closure of RCTV appeared to convince the students that Mr. Chávez meant business when he announced a plan to create a "revolution within the university." Students and professors fear that would mean an end to university autonomy and an imposition of Cuban-style socialist ideology.

(snip)

The number of Venezuelans who have a favorable opinion of the president has fallen 10 percentage points to 39% since November, according to Hinterlaces, a Caracas pollster. Skyrocketing crime, inflation and shortages of basic foods have contributed to Mr. Chávez's fall in popularity since he won re-election by a landslide in December. In the past, Mr. Chávez, who has spent billions of dollars on social-welfare programs aimed at the poor, has deftly manipulated Venezuela's sharp class divisions to portray his foes as U.S. manipulated "oligarchs." That tactic hasn't worked this time, as students come from all walks of life and many are poor or working class. "You see all kinds of students here. There are no 'oligarchs,'" says Pamela Lora, a 20-year-old public-health student at UCV. "This has nothing to do with President Bush or with any 'empire,'" she scoffs.

(snip)



Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118125886122628448.html (subscription)

[Tom Joad]

1. The rich are rising! The CIA to the rescue. Venezuela can enjoy the same

"relief" the US gave to Chile, that is decades of fascist rule await after they replace Chavez with ruler friendly to "US interests" and those of some allies.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. Source: The Wall St. Journal nt.

[question everything]

3. Did you even bother to read the story

Too bad there are freeper style DUers who just dismiss something without even bother to read it.

For your information, I will do it s-l-0-w-l-y:

The WSJ editorial board is as rabid as they come. However their news department is excellent and many of us have posted stories here from the WSJ.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Yes I read it. Source: The Wall St. Journal.

You really should try questioning everything.

[Tom Joad]

22. The WSJ won't be happy until the next Pinochet is installed in Venezuela

[Judi Lynn]

25. Fool Latin America once, shame on them, fool them twice, uh,uh, it means they can't get fooled again

http://content.answers.com.nyud.net:8090/main/content/wp/en/thumb/d/d0/400px-PinochetKissinger.jpg

Pinochet and the Great White Right-Wing Chilean Hope,
Augusto Pinochet,who taught "leftists" how to fly involuntarily.

The world remembers, and Kissinger is NOT as free to travel as he would like to be:
a man who has been caught meddling where he doesn't belong one too many times.

http://www-sul.stanford.edu.nyud.net:8090/depts/hasrg/german/exhibit/GDRposters/vjara.jpg

A light they extinguished, a voice they silenced, Victor Jara

[EFerrari]

28. Latin America must be really off of the reservation to warrant

these nonstop attacks by the BFEE and their cohorts.

Good!

[nick303]

59. Maybe you should try questioning anything

[question everything]

66. Yes, I question the groupthink on DU

and other bleeding heart people for whom everyone who hates Bush is good, every one who loves Bush is bad. Everyone who criticizes this country is good, everyone who is trying to say something good about this country is bad.

No looking at facts, no questioning, no details, just dittoing the orthodoxy.

Here is a hint: if this really were a fascist country, as so many love to claim, there would not be blogs like DU where individuals can criticize the government and not disappear from the face of the earth.

One more: Chavez is a dictator, plain and simple. He may have the "interest of the people" in his mind, or so he says, but he is a dictator who is in love with himself. Yes, he was democratically elected.. so was Hitler.

[EFerrari]

71. No looking at facts, no questioning, no details, just dittoing the orthodoxy.

"One more: Chavez is a dictator, plain and simple. He may have the "interest of the people" in his mind, or so he says, but he is a dictator who is in love with himself. Yes, he was democratically elected.. so was Hitler."

[Flanker]

82. You contradict yourself here

"Here is a hint: if this really were a fascist country, as so many love to claim, there would not be blogs like DU where individuals can criticize the government and not disappear from the face of the earth.

One more: Chavez is a dictator, plain and simple. He may have the "interest of the people" in his mind, or so he says, but he is a dictator who is in love with himself. Yes, he was democratically elected.. so was Hitler."

Shall I link to the DU (well really the freerepublic with steroids) of the Venezuelan opposition?

Plus Hitler was not elected, you just fall for the propaganda.

[TankLV]

106. explain how Chavez is a "dictator" as you spew - we're waiting on baited breath for your pearls of

"wisdom"...

[Tempest]

11. It's typical rightwing WSJ shoddy journalism

For example, the article states:

"Mr. Chávez's approval ratings have fallen and suspicion of his intentions has grown among Venezuelans"

And yet provides no evidence of this.

[Joe Chi Minh]

16. It's the endemic rabies. Can a bad tree bear good fruit?

Isn't good old Rupe trying to buy the WSJ? I wish Hugo would. Tee hee. Now that would be funny.

[Demeter]

29. What an Inspired Suggestion!

Although Hugo might do better buying the NY Times--better reputation to begin with makes transition to new management easier.

[Judi Lynn]

23. They only wish this had happened. Someone should notify them Latin America

is pulling away from those who mistakenly have imagined Latin America is only its "backyard," its source of remarkably cheap natural resources, and shockingly cheap labor, all arranged and delivered over the bodies of so many suffering people.

[NashVegas]

86. Hey Rupert - How Ya Doing, Man?

Bancroft family still giving you trouble?

[Joe Chi Minh]

15. Thing is, it's not news that being decried here, it's the hydrophobia.

I hope that wasn't enunciated to rapidly for you.

[Flanker]

36. Their news department has tons of holes

too many holes to be considered "excellent"

[nick303]

60. I'd like to see proof of that.

The WSJ has one of the best reputations out there for their news reporting. It's just laughable when some posters show up on these threads with an "article" from some ragtag website which they claim is better simply because it agrees with their biases.

[Flanker]

63. Fine with just what you quoted from the article

Lie #1

Instead, he has threatened to use violence to put down the demonstrations.

Reason: They have no quote, not even one out of context, and for good reason they made it up.

Lie #2

The student protests were sparked by the closure in late May of an opposition television station, Radió Caracas Television, or RCTV

Reason: As if it weren't obvious that it is a licence non-renewal, the station is not closed even today.

Lie #3... Well scratch that unfounded idiocy #1

the closure of RCTV appeared to convince the students that Mr. Chávez meant business when he announced a plan to create a "revolution within the university."

Reason: Yeah it is NOW that the protestors think the government means business...

Lie #4

as students come from all walks of life and many are poor or working class.

Reason: The poor don't even attend public universities proportionally, while I do not deny that poor people are protesting the government they represent but a very small portion of said protestors and not even close to the E+D strata proportionality of 60%+

[nick303]

64. Response

#1 I do not know if he has or has not, I do not have time at the moment to search around. It's pretty hard to prove conclusively that he hasn't. However, you might be correct on this point.

#2 It has been said that they could operate on satellite or cable, however the government seizure of all of their equipment and offices might make that difficult.

#3 That's largely your opinion. I think the closure of RCTV caused a lot of people in Venezuela and abroad to take notice and start questioning Chavez's actions. Then again, some people will swallow whatever he throws their way.

#4 You are trying to read more into this than is really there. They never said that "a majority are poor" or anything like that. The most you could hope for is to call this statement an exaggeration.

[Flanker]

65. rebuttal

#1 It is obvious that one cannot prove a negative therefore the onus was on them to prove so, however having listened to most of the media here for a while it is painfully evident that he has not threatened the protests with violence, however like all propaganda they probably had to base it on something The opposition has been trying to pin a statement he made about wanting the poor people to "come down" from the hillsides to match their protests, the hopelessly naive opposition interpreted that as a provacation for clashes.

#2 The government has not seized anything of the sort, as a matter of fact they are still operating. Filming both soaps for the international market and the "news" show for its internal one, what the government seized was broadcasting equipment (ie antenas and repeaters) their satellite and cable equipment is still theirs for whenever they sign their contract with providers.

#3 You misunderstand, whatever political opinion these students share they did not develop overnight, the newsmedia is trying to pin this as some sort of awakening, when in reality these are just the same people that over the years have protested both violently and peacefully. Granted they are trying to create an impression that it is all student run since politicians are so woefully discredited.

#4 A massive exageration perhaps, most of the students are from PRIVATE universities, Even the few public ones are still upper strata dominated. Something like the poorest 60% only represent 6% of the studend body of the UCV which is the main public university. In case you are wondering why? if tuition is free? Few allotments means mostly kickbacks and corruption decide who gets in and who does not.

[Rageneau]

5. Your tax dollars at work.

[Judi Lynn]

6. You betcha! They payed good money for this crap, and they can't afford to let it die down

after only one week of mayhem.

It's not as if we haven't all seen it for decades. Really sad.

[Judi Lynn]

7. Who can forget the rock solid stories we used to get from main stream, dependable media?

Published on Friday, April 19, 2002 by CommonDreams.org
Latin America's Dilemma: Otto Reich's Propaganda is Reminiscent of the Third Reich
by Tom Turnipseed

The Bush administration is engaging in damage control for their questionable involvement in the failed 2 day coup against the democratically elected government of President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. Alarmingly, the ominous Otto Reich is emerging as a key player in the administration's role in the failed coup attempt to replace Chavez with an oligarchy of business, military and wealthy elites. Scrambling to distance themselves from the botched overthrow of the democratically elected Chavez government, the Bush administration admitted that Mr. Reich called the coup leader, Mr. Carmona, and asked him not to dissolve the National Assembly because it would be a "stupid thing to do". The next day the administration revised their story and said Reich only asked our ambassador to relay that message to Carmona.

The New York Times noted that the disclosure raised questions as to whether Mr. Reich and other administration officials were stage-managing the takeover by Mr. Carmona. Although the Bush administration admits their desire to replace the Chavez government because of its opposition to U.S. policies and friendship with countries like Cuba and Iran, they now insist that they were not involved in the armed coup. The administration also admits talking with various Venezuelan officials prior to the coup including General Lucas Romero Rincon, head of the Venezuelan military, who met with Pentagon official Rogelio Pardo-Maurer, a former close associate of the U. S. supported Contra forces in Nicaragua.
(snip)

Mitchell interrupted election night coverage on NBC to give the phony report. This resembles the Joseph Goebbel's fabrication that Polish troops had attacked German soldiers to give the Third Reich an excuse to launch the Nazi blitzkrieg into Poland to begin World War II in 1939. Other Reich prevarications given to media sources included: Nicaragua had been given chemical weapons by the Soviets, according to the Miami Herald; and leaders of the Sandinistas were involved in drug trafficking, according to Newsweek magazine.
(snip/...)

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0419-03.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We've never been without it, for ages.

[0rganism]

8. despite the wsj source and its blatant opinion statements, this article is on to something

Chavez's response to the student demonstrations could have been much smoother, and it's likely that the public, which has favored Chavez up to this point, will lose patience as he cracks down on the students -- whatever their economic backgrounds.

Chavez will not be El Presidente forever. Venezuela will enter another "transitional" period when he leaves office. If the Venezuelans are to preserve any of the gains from the Bolivarian revolution, it's crucial that Chavez leave in good standing, with the admiration and respect of a solid majority of the people. Also, Chavez has to start thinking about his ideological successor, someone who can carry on the process while moderating it to be a little less revolution and a little more maintenance. Granted that Chavez's party can still win at the polls against the well-funded but undemocratic "opposition", the next president will have a huge problem: how to carry on similar policy objectives without the leverage Chavez has from being, well, Hugo Chavez. The next guy isn't going to be riding in on a white horse to topple an imperialist puppet regime, he'll have to do it without a cult following, on the basis of sound policy alone.

That will be a much harder sell. Chavez won some key battles, but it will be his successor who has to win the war, so to speak.

[Joe Chi Minh]

17. An interestingly phantasmagorical discursion laid before us - all gratuitous

conjecture and, unsurprisingly, wholly implausible.

Strong Socialist leaders, genuine Socialists, leave a strong political infrastrusture behind. And, I might add, a massive adoring populace. And don't forget - in Hugo's case, the devotion has spread throughout the continent.

[knight_of_the_star]

119. Talk about painting with a broad brush

Not only did you not address what he said, but you countered with a broad brush statement that you provide no specific evidence to support that, "Strong Socialist leaders, genuine Socialists, leave a strong political infrastructure behind." So who are these strong socialist leaders you're talking about and which countries are you addressing, cause I'm pretty damn sure nearly none of your examples were democratically elected by the people.

[rayofreason]

21. "Chavez will not be El Presidente forever"....

...Not if Chavez has anything to say about it, I predict.

[0rganism]

31. I don't see any reason to believe he's immortal

Someone will be his successor, one way or another.

[rayofreason]

38. Indeed...

...mortality is the final arbiter for all, whether they wish to cede power or not.

[EFerrari]

33. Miss Cleo, is that you?

lol

[EFerrari]

34. I think in the long run, you make good points. It's easier to have

an outside enemy than inside contenders.

That's just politics.

But, it would be a mistake to look at this situation without understanding that our own government is doing everything in it's power to bring Chavez down because he's not playing ball. Because they can't buy him.

That is the larger frame.

It remains to be seen if Venezuela will be allowed their own process or if we send in the CIA again to try to manipulate their government to the benefit of multinationals controlled in the the US.

[Flanker]

35. There has been no crackdown of the students

The WSJ is just plain propaganda all around, The first few days there was violence and police used tear gas and rubber bullets consistently, but recently things have calmed down and such events are remote, now police and NG just carry shields.

The student protests are dying down as well, as a matter of fact they are more or less over. Classes resume on monday (not to mention summer vacation and they would NEVER miss that) and they did the most idiotic thing in a while: They asked to speak in Congress, they were told they would be given a chance to debate their peers, they mildly protested (they wanted no debate) but went nevertheless, BUT after their initial speech they heard only one rebuttal and left in the most spoiled manner possible, lets say it was a severe blow to their national credibility with rational people, and are now considered a joke.

[Larkspur]

9. See the Wall Street Journal is trying to cheerlead for the wealthy in Venezuela

The wealthy and the "white" folks in Venezuela over Chavez and his policies that have lifted up the poor.

[EFerrari]

27. We have to support the WSJ and the elite in Venezuela.

It's the American way. lol

[Larkspur]

10. Here's another source on the same story...

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=2320

[Judi Lynn]

12. Interesting, to say the least. Thanks. n/t

[northzax]

13. apparently Venezela Analysis

is trying to overthrow the revolution as well, in cahoots with the US government.

damn right wing conservatives! why every single article on that site is a paen to ultra conservative ideology, right?

[question everything]

68. Thank you. Yes, the same reports

will this, too, be trashed on DU?

Caracas, June 6, 2007 (venezuelanalysis.com)— University students continued to march in the Venezuelan capital this week against the government decision to not renew the broadcast license of the private television channel RCTV. Following a march on Sunday, Students marched again on Monday, to the Supreme Court building in central Caracas, to submit a formal document to this body. Today students marched from the Central University of Venezuela to office of the Attorney General to submit another list of demands.

Thousands of students from many different universities tossed carnations to police in the streets as they marched through the streets of Caracas on Monday. The march ended at the Supreme Court building where students presented written demands to Chief Justice Luisa Estela Morales demanding the court to uphold Venezuelans’ civil rights.

[Judi Lynn]

14. Here's the whole WSJ story, after being mangled by google translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.lanacion.com.ar/wsj/nota.asp%3Fnota_id%3D915571%26pid%3D2671339%26toi%3D5358&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522Pamela%2BLora%2522%2B%252B%2BVenezuela%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2004-37,GGLD:en

[Judi Lynn]

18. Found a reference to "Hinterlace," the polling reference used by the WSJ writer,

Jose de Cordoba:

Poll #2: Hinterlaces
Hinterlaces had inoculated itself from charges of bias earlier this summer, when its previous poll results showed Chavez leading Rosales 55% to 7%. But results released last week show Rosales’ popularity climbing dramatically to 30%, while Chavez’s support suspiciously falls below the 50% mark.


Like Penn & Schoen, the Hinterlaces team has close ties to the opposition. While in its most recent round of polling, the firm has refused to disclose its funding and methodology, in the past it has been underwritten by a consortium of Venezuelan business interests. Earlier this year Hinterlaces entered into a partnership with the hard-core opposition tabloid “Descifrado en la Calle” to publicize their results in opposition circles.
(snip)

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:JEu26DVP8aoJ:www.venezuelainenglish.com/blog/2006/09/+Hinterlaces+%2B+website+%2B+English&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Small look at another couple of polling firms widely quoted in U.S. corporate media:

Can you believe Venezuela's pollsters?

by Justin Delacour; Narconews Bulletin; February 06, 2003

Over the last year, several correspondents in Venezuela have repeatedly attempted to portray Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez as an unpopular leader. The most common basis for these statements has been the recitation of “polls” claiming that Chávez’s approval rating is down to around 30 percent.

The commercial media correspondents rarely cite the source of their polls. So this reporter contacted them, and most of the reporters offered only the names of two Venezuelan companies – Datanalisis and Keller and Associates.

An investigation into the operations of these two Venezuelan polling firms and their relationships with correspondents reveals that, by any fair measure, it is irresponsible for correspondents to cite the two firms’ polls without also mentioning that the two firms are headed by virulently anti-Chavez figures who frequently use polling samples that are unrepresentative of the overall Venezuelan population.

The first factor that calls the polls into question is the well-known political partisanship of the polling firms’ directors, Jose Antonio Gil Yepes of Datanalisis and Alfredo Keller of Keller and Associates.

In a recent e-mail interchange, The Los Angeles Times’ correspondent T. Christian Miller acknowledged that the two pollsters are “pretty anti-Chavez,” but he defends their credibility on grounds that "both do door to door polling, to get the poorest of poor represented in their surveys, and also balance for things like gender and region." Miller’s defense of Keller and Gil Yepes is very questionable in view of contrary evidence. However, before presenting this contrary evidence, we would like to point out the problems with the two pollsters’ political partisanship.

Datanalisis' Pollster: Chavez "has to be killed"

Gil Yepes and Keller are not merely “anti-Chavez”; they are openly and virulently anti-Chavez. In a July 8 article in the Los Angeles Times, Miller describes Gil Yepes as a man of “Venezuela’s elite” who “moves in circles of money, power and influence” and “was educated in top U.S. schools.”

It’s certainly shocking that the LA Times quoted Gil Yepes saying that Chavez “has to be killed.”
(snip/...)

http://www.zmag.org/content/print_article.cfm?itemID=2985

[bemildred]

19. Hey, they dredged up Galloway and the oil-for-food program again this week too.

Almost word for word the same stuff as was trotted out a couple years ago, just like this stuff. You suppose it's a coinkydink all these propaganda failures are being recycled again this week? Or do these guys just lack imagination? Or maybe they think we have bad memories?

[Judi Lynn]

20. Ha! They probably assume we're all like REPUBLICANS! Short attention spans.

That Galloway "news" was a real puzzler, wasn't it? Good grief.

Was it a stupid mistake by a new employee who was confused, or was it deliberate? It's hard to tell with these guys.

[Peace Patriot]

37. Thank you, Judi Lynn, for tracking down this pollster! Pollsters--namely,

Penn and Schoen, and, we now know, Hinterlace--have played a key roll in efforts to stir up violent opposition to the legitimate, elected government of Venezuela. The rightwing there cannot win elections honestly (as they cannot here), so they get up all kinds of dirty tricks, among them, the all rightwing/corporate controlled news media promulgating absolutely false polls, and then claiming that elections were stolen. Of course, the OAS, the Carter Center and EU election monitoring groups have all said otherwise, repeatedly--Venezuela's elections are honest and aboveboard. But that doesn't stop the fascist elite from trying to foment violence. In the last election, Dec. '06--which Chavez won with 63% of the vote--the latest coup scheme was to promulgate false polls "proving" that he had actually lost, stir up rightwing thugs for rioting the next day, and then involve the military once again in an attempt to suspend the Constitution and remove President Chavez by force. To his credit, Chavez's opponent in the election disavowed this plot and distanced himself from its organizers.

You see the problem for Venezuela's rightwing. They are on the outs, now, all over South America. And they need a new "narrative."

What OUR war profiteering corporate news monopolies write about Venezuela is sort of wishful thinking reporting. And in this they are as bad as the corporate-controlled fascist news media in Venezuela. They ignore the truth. They create an alternative reality. And they sometimes fabricate information to make that alternative seem true--or to prepare people, both here and there, to ACCEPT, say, another military coup, or a Chavez assassination, if and when the CIA can pull it off. This WSJ article seems to be preparing the ground, and it's interesting to follow the outline of the alternative reality. The fascist creeps like those who kidnapped Chavez in 2002, and the alternative reality created by the corporate media that Chavez supporters had fired on anti-Chavez protesters (the exact opposite of what really happened), and that Chavez had resigned (which he had not done) have been so discredited that a new tack has to be created: that students "from all classes" oppose Chavez. This is very likely no more true than that other, cruder alternative reality. But it is a bit more "sellable." And this is very likely an overarching narrative that is being underpinned by large chunks of Bushite/Corporate/local rightwing cash to students, and organization of "student groups" to speak the anti-Chavez lines, and make it seem more than it is. They are trying to make the rightwing opposition look "wholesome."

I suspect that this WSJ article is almost entirely fabricated to create the appearance of a "wholesome" opposition. It smells like an article that has been "designed" for that purpose--and may be following a CIA pre-written scenario. I'm sure there IS legit opposition to Chavez, and students who can be found to be the "spokespeople" for this "rising" student "movement." And the rightwing has always been able to find bodies to scream and yell at protests, and, if desired, throw rocks at the police and create "incidents" that look like repression. The followup demos--to the violent ones (in which about 150 people were arrested, with all but a couple of 35 year old non-students now released)--that is, these recent demos that seem to be about free speech and free assembly (not being able to protest outside the National Assembly building), described in the www.venezuelanalysis.com article, seem very scripted--and the spokespeople tutored--to utilize the measures taken for civil order in Caracas as some kind of clampdown. The end of the article reveals that the National Assembly agreed to permit the student leaders to speak to the National Assembly. Protesters speaking to the National Assembly! Wow that's real repressive! And a heavily Chavista National Assembly at that! (Imagine the U.S. Congress inviting Cindy Sheehan and other antiwar protesters to speak to Congress!)

And I suspect that's where this "rising student movement" will die. Because I don't think it's genuine. I think there is some genuine opposition, but I don't think there is any "rising student movement" defending RCTV's active support of a violent military coup, or denying their own right, as citizens, to regulate the public airwaves in the public interest, favoring diversity of opinion (instead of all-fascism all the time). I think this is a false "movement"--which WSJ has copied from a CIA playbook and then has gone down to Venezuela to find "evidence" for. The false poll is the giveaway. How can we trust a news article that would use such a poll? It's no different from the disinformation of RCTV and the coup plotters.

But that doesn't mean it is not a dangerous article. Why would they publish it--rather than, say, an article on the millions of poor people in Venezuela who can now read, who can now put dinner on the table, who can now send their children to school, and who now have some hope of upward mobility, as the result of Chavez government programs (the proper use of the oil revenues)? You don't see that in the WSJ. You see this--the expression of a minority view, from people supposedly supporting the corporate elite's most irresponsible TV station, people who NEVER march against poverty or injustice toward the poor. Always for the rich and their viewpoint.

The stakes are very high, indeed. The Chavez government is seriously challenging U.S. corporate rule in the Andes region and throughout South America. They are inspiring millions of people to reject U.S. interference, and to seek self-determination, social justice and regional cooperation. The Bolivians have elected a president--Evo Morales--who is closely aligned with Chavez. The Ecudorans have elected a president--Rafael Correa--who is closely aligned with Chavez. Argentina's Nester Kirchner is closely aligned with Chavez. Nicaragua's Daniel Ortega is closely aligned with Chavez. And there are leftist (majorityist) governments as well in Brazil, Chile and Uruguay--and big leftist movements in Peru and Paraguay (likely to win future elections--also in Mexico). Brazil and Chile have been playing some games with the Bushites, vis a vis, Chavez, but basically they oppose any U.S. interference in Venezuela. Even the rightwing governments of Colombia and Mexico have stated this principle.

The ideas of the Bolivarian revolution are inspiring and have caught on like wildfire. And there is surely many a scheme in corporate board rooms, rightwing "think tanks" and the Bush State Department to defeat this movement. Their darker schemes are being exposed in Colombia, by courageous prosecutors and judges (the slaughter of union organizers, peasants and leftists, and, among other things, assassinating Chavez and destabilizing the Andean democracies, for a rightwing military takeover of the region). This is not to say that more such schemes are not in the hopper. They may well be. But more likely--given the tenor of things in South America generally--wilier schemes are in progress, like using the students to try to create dislike of Chavez and to make inroads against his popularity and his ideas, then to build organizational strength (very needed by the rightwing faction in Venezuela--they are basically fools and clowns, when it comes to politics), to forge some alliances with the middle and professional classes, and then lard this alliance with money to give them an outsized advantage in the next elections. This is the sort of thing that Bush's USAID/NED has tried before, with no success. Venezuela's fascists are not liked. But our corporate predators never give up. They have endless resources to try and try again. They don't want legitimate government. They want government they can control. And if they can't get it one way, they will try another. If the student "movement" peters out, and can't be used as an excuse for another violent try, they have other efforts in train to manipulate elections, if they can.

There is one other factor in this "student movement" ploy. The Chavez government is builing new state universities, because the private universities and their rich supporters have been utterly neglectful of the education of the poor. I would suspect that the recruits for this phony "student movement" are from the private universities. The Catholic Church in particular--or rather its own rightwing--likely does not want any rival student populations who cannot be propagandized, and whose education is free. This would make the private schools fair hunting grounds for student protesters to defend the privileged elite and its control of all TV/radio media. I would also suspect that students in the private universities who were wearing red Chavista berets and out in the streets marching for the leftist government, or leftist causes (and there are groups to the left of Chavez in Venezuela--he is actually something of a moderate), these students might find themselves seriously disfavored, overlooked for prizes and scholarships, disciplined, or ostrasized, or even expelled. The rightwing faction of the Church is very vocally--and very nastily--anti-Chavez. Their rich supporters wouldn't like leftist activity on "their" campuses.

I have personal familiarity with how the rightwing faction of the Church manipulates Catholic colleges, and I am familiar with one of the worst of the fascist prelates in Venezuela, but I have no specific knowledge of conditions on Catholic campuses in Venezuela, and I would appreciate any information posters may have in that regard. Anyone know what schools these protesters are generally from, and what's going on at those schools?

[Judi Lynn]

42. You always introduce a lot of important points to consider. Here's an article which refers to some

of the things you discussed!

06/09/07
Wall Street Journal's Looking Glass World
Stephen Lendman

She's at it again on the Journal's editorial page in her June 4 article called "The Young and the Restless," subtitled "Is this the beginning of the end for Hugo Chavez?" The writer is self-styled Latin American expert Mary Anastasia O'Grady always getting top grades in vilification and disinformation but failing ones on regional knowledge and legitimate journalism.
(snip)

For starters, a moderately large protest march took place in Caracas May 28 after Radio Caracas Television's (RCTV) VHF Channel 2 went off the air at midnight May 27. A much larger crowd of supporters dwarfed the opposition, unmentioned in O'Grady's column....
(snip)

What Venezuela's National Assembly did allow is something unimaginable in the US where democracy is more illusion than fact. It invited students on both sides of RCTV's shuttering to debate it before a full session of congress. When they came June 7, it highlighted what's evident on the streets - the sharp class divide showing students from elitist families in the protests while the great majority of ordinary Venezuelans, benefitting from Bolivarianism, opposing them.

The National Assembly forum was held June 7. Each side showed up with a list of 20 speakers, but things didn't go as planned. Protesting student representatives came, then left after the first pro-government speech saying nothing after its leader's comment that protests would continue. It proved free expression isn't the issue at all as, given the chance to make their case to congress, student agitators chose not to do it.
(snip)

Peru's Alan Garcia serves the elite so his lawlessness was ignored when he pulled the operating licenses of two TV stations and three radio stations. The likely reason was their support for a strike Garcia opposes because, unlike Chavez, he's subservient to Washington and no democrat.

Summing up, what's playing out on Venezuela's streets is part of a made-in-Washington attempt weaken Hugo Chavez through a phony trumped up scheme denouncing him for opposing free expression, using RCTV's shuttering as the pretext. This writer even got one unconfirmed report elitist university professors ordered their students to the streets in protest or get failing grades in their courses if they refused. It's likely true, so many in the protest crowds weren't there for conviction, but fearing retribution in class if they demurred.
(snip)

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2007/06/09/wall_street_journal_s_looking_glass_worl

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll be keeping a watch for any view of who the students are, who organized this, etc. Thanks for mentioning it.

[Judi Lynn]

43. Finally found an article which names some of the schools from which the students came

who went to the National Assembly!

Students in Venezuela Expose Coup Attempts
By Felix Lopez

Venezuela witnessed Thursday an unprecedented episode in its history when the National Assembly opened its doors to give the floor to university students who favour and oppose the decision of not renewing the license of private TV broadcaster Radio Caracas Television (RCTV), property of the oligarchic group 1 Broadcasting Caracas (1BC).

Opposition groups have used the Venezuelan government’s decision to not renew RCTV’s license as an excuse to mount a new coup against the administration of Hugo Chavez, this time using CIA methods that were applied in former socialist countries in Eastern Europe.

With practically all the nation’s radio and TV stations broadcasting live from the National Assembly floor, ten students from both sides of the argument voiced their opinions in front of the legislative chamber regarding various issues of the country’s political reality, among them freedom of speech. However, Venezuelans were sorely disappointed when this unique opportunity was wasted by those same students who had been demonstrating on the streets against the government for more than a week.

Once the debate started, the first speaker was one of the leaders of the opposition protest, Douglas Barrios, a student from the Universidad Metropolitana in Caracas. Barrios read a pamphlet openly advocating for the right of the oligarchy to not recognize decisions made by the majority and to invoke “university autonomy,” to protect the interests of the wealthy to have the exclusive right of obtaining a university degree.

The second to take the floor was Adreina Terrazona, a student from the Universidad Central de Venezuela (UCV). She gave Barrios and his friends a class in ethics and history, of civility and courage, and told the country about how a group of students and their teachers had lent themselves to be used by the leaders of the opposition at the service of imperialist and corporate interests, who “are doing their best to rid themselves of Chavez,” this time using the CIA devised technique of “soft coup” and “peaceful resistance.”
(snip)

Previous to the debate, the opposition had repeatedly asked for the right to speak to the National Assembly. Responding to Goicochea’s decision to not address the assembly, Cilia Flores, president of the National Assembly, said:” We do not want to think that you have nothing else to say. How can we describe this attitude, when you have been granted this space in a very democratic fashion, when you have been allowed to express yourselves freely, and now withdraw? This behaviour leaves no doubt about the link between the demonstrations and the destabilization plan implemented by the fascist Venezuelan opposition.
(snip/...)

http://www.periodico26.cu/english/news_world/venez060807.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, you bet, we have been spared any actual information all the way through this latest hysterical free-for-all, haven't we? It's so SPOOKY when actual facts are offered.

[question everything]

69. This is a Cuban publication

Why should it be more reliable than the WSJ?

Cuba, after all, is another society under dictatorship rule. Does Cuba have any free publication? Of course anything published there will have the anti-American stamp and pro-communism, pro-Chavez stamps.

Does this publication contain a single word criticizing its stories or the government?

[Judi Lynn]

70. I take it that you are saying what is written in that article is nothing more than trickery.

I see!

Hardly worth the trouble making up all the names and creating bogus quotes, for sure.

This must mean you are staking your considerable reputation on the complete trustworthiness of the WSJ in it's sworn-on-a-stack-of-bibles coverage of everything.

Now we finally stop doing research and just read the Wall Street Journal from now on for any news we can't get from Fox Cable News.

Terrific! That's bound to save some time.

[IndianaGreen]

79. WSJ told you that Saddam had WMD, and that Gore lost Florida in 2000

and Kerry lost Ohio in 2004, and that it was fruitless to challenge the election results. Is that the source you are defending?

[EFerrari]

93. LOL

:thumbsup:

[Socal31]

116. And,...

you are one that doesnt believe ANYTHING that you dont agree with. Grow up, move on, and lets change things. You sound like a child. Kerry lost, Gore got f*cked by the Supreme Court. Jesus Christ.

[nick303]

62. Great tactic

If anything does not fit your worldview, then don't take it at face value. You must "suspect" that things are just the opposite and that it "seems" that instead something underhanded is going on.

[Rage for Order]

40. How is this information relevant?

The only part of your post relevant to the discussion is this:

"Like Penn & Schoen, the Hinterlaces team has close ties to the opposition. While in its most recent round of polling, the firm has refused to disclose its funding and methodology, in the past it has been underwritten by a consortium of Venezuelan business interests. Earlier this year Hinterlaces entered into a partnership with the hard-core opposition tabloid “Descifrado en la Calle” to publicize their results in opposition circles."

Datanalisis and Keller and Associates were not mentioned in the OP. Who do you think provides funding for pollsters? Poor people can't afford to invest in a polling company, nor can they afford to buy the data that is accumulated, so it stands to reason that businesses - oops, i'm sorry, oligarchs, the wealthy elite opposition, and CIA - would be the ones who provide money to the polling company.

I find it interesting that once your claim of bias against the WSJ article was refuted by the venezuelaanalysis link, you switched from attacking the WSJ to attacking the polling company mentioned in the article - which was a very minute portion of the overall article - instead of addressing the content of the article.

[Judi Lynn]

44. How is my information relevant? I must say I just don't seem to be able to get the hang of it.

Please be sure to show us how it's done. Can't wait to see your masterly example.

[Rage for Order]

48. Yes, that was the question

You initially questioned the objectivity of the WSJ article in an attempt to discredit the OP, but when a nearly identical article was posted from venezuelaanalysis.com corroborating the information in the WSJ atricle, you switched to attacking the polling company, claiming that perhaps they are biased instead. You have narrowed your focus to one sentence of the entire OP: "The number of Venezuelans who have a favorable opinion of the president has fallen 10 percentage points to 39% since November, according to Hinterlaces, a Caracas pollster." You then brought in information about 2 other polling companies that have nothing to do with the OP.

I am curious, though. Where do you think polling companies get money to perform polls? Certainly it is not the poor who invest in the companies, as they tend to not have the disposable income to support a polling company. Of course the funds will come from businesses who want access to the results of the polls conducted. The money has to come from either the gov't or businesses, or perhaps investors, who by definition have money. Let me ask you, do you believe the Bush poll numbers that show his approval rating around 30%? If so, why? Wouldn't the same principles apply to polling companies here in the states?

[Flanker]

50. Hinterlaces does not publish their methodology

If you can find it be my guest and post it, plus they were extremely off during the last election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_presidential_election%2C_2006#Polls

[Rage for Order]

52. That's not the point

Regardless of whether Hinterlaces publishes their methodology, that was not the focus of the article. It was one sentence in the article. The article's primary focus was the protests by university students, so the attempt to deflect the discussion towards polling companies and their techniques seems like a desperate attempt to draw attention away from the substance of the story.

[Flanker]

56. How are protests more relevant than scientific data?

Hinterlaces methodology could be shoddy. According to them they had a candidate that won by 64% with barely 50% approval a month before said election, still if you want to discuss the protests fine...

They are over, classes start on monday, the semester finishes in a month and they will NEVER skip summer vacation... That said they might keep some small (very small maybe 40) street presence with theater protests, first it was in the subway, on friday it was on intersections, in the end more art than politics.

Was it repressed? No and despite it being quite violent initially nobody died, nobody is gravely injured, and nobody is in jail nor do they have cases against them (9 non-students do still have to report periodically) Heck they got an opportunity to speak to the whole country and threw it away in a very spoiled manner.

[Warren Stupidity]

45. "businesses - oops, i'm sorry, oligarchs"

That is a classic example of snarkivity: a snark gone terribly wrong due to the naivity of the snarker. You really should catch up on your history of latin america before you snaif again.

You do understand that the CIA has sponsored two attempts at overthrowing the elected government of Venezuela since 2000, don't you?

[Rage for Order]

49. And how did Mr. Chavez initially come to power?

If memory serves me correctly, he assumed power through a coup of his own. What powers sponsored his successful coup to overthrow the gov't of Venezuela at the time? This reminds me of the quote (can't remember by whom) "He may be a son of a bitch, but he's OUR son of a bitch!"

[1932]

51. It's so funny that you don't know.

His attempted coup failed, he was jailed, pardoned, started a political party and won election democraticallly.

You know why that's funny? Because his party, MVR, is the first party in Venezuelan histroy that did NOT take power by coup. Every single party that had held power previous to Chavez's took the presidency for the first time through a coup. Even the president Chavez tried to oust participated in the coup that got his party the presidency in the '50s.

[Rage for Order]

53. Oh, I see...because his coup failed, it's ok

He was pardoned by a crony who garnered 30% of the national vote when he ran for president, analogous to a bush pardon of libby. I think it's great that Venezuela is stabilizing and leaders are being elected rather than installed, and I for one would like to see this continue. I do not think that consolidating power in the executive branch is the way to ensure a fair, democratic process, and apparently neither does Chavez's mentor, Luis Miquilena:

http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/174710

CARACAS–Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's political mentor – who once persuaded the fiery leader to seek power through elections after Chavez led a failed coup – now says the regime has "all the characteristics of a dictatorial government."

Luis Miquilena, who helped guide Chavez to his initial 1998 election win and later was his interior minister, spoke out this week, five years after he left Chavez's cabinet, while hundreds of government opponents held a separate protest over a congressional measure that would grant Chavez broad powers to pass laws by decree.

"This is a government with a hypocritical authoritarianism that tries to sell the world certain democratic appearances," said the 87-year-old Miquilena, who has maintained a low profile since resigning from Chavez's government in early 2002.

"The government is not abiding by any rule. It has all the characteristics of a dictatorial government," Miquilena told reporters during a ceremony at the newspaper El Nacional, which is highly critical of the government.

[1932]

54. His party is the only one to be democratically elected to the presidency in Ven.

the first time the party had the presidency (and if the US has it's way, this will still be true when the next president takes office). You really don't think that this is a significant and revealing fact about Venezuelan politics?



By the way, do you know who pardoned Chavez?

Do you know what party Miquilena belongs to? Do you know what is problem with Chavez really is? He's been hating Chavez since 2001. http://books.google.com/books?id=dibXGgdZJagC&pg=PA217&ots=r4e7lS5pbg&dq=Miquilena+richard+gott&sig=rj-LOFe3WmDZgkH_4SZz4QSNrFs

[Rage for Order]

55. My guess would be Rafael Cardera

And yes, i realize that Miquilena was a pioneer of Venezuela's labor movement, helped Chavez found the MVR, provided financial support to Chavez's family while Chavez was in prison, encouraged Chavez to run for the presidency, and served as his Interior Minister until 2002. His problem is that he doesn't agree with Chavez's "autocratic style", as he puts it.

[1932]

57. How in the world did you know that but not know how Chavez came to power?

???

And you do know that Luis is now a right-winger. This isn't an attack from the left. It's an attack from the right. Furthermore, he resigned in '01 after the first 49 decrees were passed to begin social reform. That was 6 years ago. It isn't until now that the authoritarian label has been stuck to Chavez...and it's based on things happening in the last year and not the first seven.

[Flanker]

58. Or maybe he was a bit corrupt for his briches

Frankly it is all speculation, in Venezuela there is little political middle ground for politicians either you are with the government or you think it is dictatorial, totalitarian, castro-communism bla bla bla.

[LynnTheDem]

24. Polling by Hinterlaces = polling by Faux Noise.

And as reliable.

[EFerrari]

26. The Onion is hilarious.

lol

[Judi Lynn]

30. Thanks for the reminder. I went there and found this stirring piece to share:

With All Due Respect, I Choose Not To Go Fuck Myself

http://www.theonion.com.nyud.net:8090/content/files/images/With-All.jpg

By Bruce Teichera
June 6, 2007 | Issue 43•23

Sir. Sir. Sir! Now that you have, I dare say, made your opinion on this matter more than abundantly clear, might I finally be afforded the opportunity to respond? Thank you. You have spoken eloquently, and I do appreciate your directness and candor. However, after due consideration of your most adamant proposal, I regret to inform you that I will neither be going nor fucking myself, not now and not in the foreseeable future.

I say this knowing full well the extent to which your proposal concerning the fucking of myself was emphasized, both with hand gestures and the raising of your voice beyond that of civil conversation, and despite the evident urgency which moved you to repeat the recommendation seven times in rapid succession.

As much as I, a gentleman, would like to accommodate you, I am nonetheless afraid that I must reject your suggestion out of hand. I find it flatly untenable. And though I appreciate the concern manifest in your statement regarding the use to which I might put my bottom, I do not consider the option of fucking myself—with a broomstick, sideways, as I believe you specified—to be a course of action worthy of my pursuit.

In fact, at the risk of sounding impolitic, your manner and phrasing have have caused me to doubt whether you have my best interests in mind. Indeed, sir, given the hostility and lack of propriety with which your suggestion was brought to my attention, I think that the case could easily be made that, conversely, you should be the one to go and fuck yourself.

More:
http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/with_all_due_respect_i_choose

[EFerrari]

32. LOL!

:hi:

[NeedleCast]

39. Students

Those foolish Neo-con university students! When will they realize that Chavez knows what's best for them? Re-education camps for all of them!

[Peace Patriot]

46. Oh, for Chrissake! They invited the students to debate the matter before the

National Assembly! Is THAT repression? Why do anti-Chavez posters bring up such irrelevant spectres as "re-education camps"? Where are the "re-education camps" in Venezuela? What are you talking about?

Posts like this always rely on boogymen and phantoms--fears, scary scenarios. With no evidence to back them up.

Why aren't you addressing the fascist butchery in Colombia, right next door? You're so worried about "free speech" in Venezuela, try Colombia where "free speech" gets you dumped into a mass grave with other union organizers, peasant farmers and leftists.

You think RCTV wanted "free speech" in Venezuela? Well, they actively supported suspending the Constitution, the National Assembly and the court system, kidnapping of the president (so much for HIS "free speech") and the rightwing thugs out in the streets who were shooting people dead. Some "free speech" for them, huh? RCTV wanted Colombia in Venezuela: rule by a fascist military junta, which would have made short bloody work of most people's "free speech."

[NeedleCast]

47. Debates is one thing, action is another

National Assembly! Is THAT repression? Why do anti-Chavez posters bring up such irrelevant spectres as "re-education camps"? Where are the "re-education camps" in Venezuela? What are you talking about?

It was more sarcasm directed to the pro-Chavez posters here who are so quick to condem ANYTHING anti-Chavez as being set up or support by wealthy right wing members of Venezuelan society or foreign backers. These protestors seem to be coming from pretty much every segment of society. With some of the organizations that are sending up warning signs about Chavez, I think anyone who's not skeptical of him is wearing blinders.

Why aren't you addressing the fascist butchery in Colombia, right next door? You're so worried about "free speech" in Venezuela, try Colombia where "free speech" gets you dumped into a mass grave with other union organizers, peasant farmers and leftists.

Because I'm not interested in addresing this straw-man of an argument. We're talking about Venezuela in this thread. Not Columbia, not Cuba, not the United States. I'll agree that there are major problems in Colombia and that many of them stem from their government and the fact that said government is being essentially held together by outside interests including the US. None of this changes the fact that I think you're blind to what Chavez is doing and that even if he walked into your house, removed your TV (in the name of the people, of course), stole your wallet and had sex with your spouse, that you'd still be waving your pom-poms for him.

You think RCTV wanted "free speech" in Venezuela? Well, they actively supported suspending the Constitution, the National Assembly and the court system, kidnapping of the president (so much for HIS "free speech") and the rightwing thugs out in the streets who were shooting people dead. Some "free speech" for them, huh? RCTV wanted Colombia in Venezuela: rule by a fascist military junta, which would have made short bloody work of most people's "free speech."

And yet it was one of the most popular TV stations in the country and people from, apparently, all walks of life are not happy to see it go. Why do you think that is? I'm also curious as to what happened to all of RCTV's broadcasting equipment, cameras, studio furniture, et. al. Seems to me that not only did RCTV have thier license "unrewned" but that all of their equipment was seized as well. Who owned that stuff previously? Since the new channel was, it seems, broadcasting within a very short time span, it looks like the Venezuelan Gov (read: Chavez) now considers that equipment to be government property. It's one thing to not have your license renewed. It's a whole different ballgame to me if you don't have your license renewed and the Gov grabs up all your shit too.

[ProudDad]

67. Why?

"It's a whole different ballgame to me if you don't have your license renewed and the Gov grabs up all your shit too."

Those fascist fucks who own RCTV don't need their transmitter anymore...

[EFerrari]

73. See my post below. It didn't happen.

[EFerrari]

72. Their equipment was not seized. I fact checked that.

They built their studio on state property and their deal with the government at the time was that all improvements would be state property. There was no "seizure". State property reverted to the state. This was a contract made long before Chavez was elected.

[Judi Lynn]

74. Thanks for the clarification. It makes absolutely perfect sense.

Sure glad you took the time to find out about this.:thumbsup:

[EFerrari]

76. (They're airing Greg Palast's piece on Chavez on LinkTv

right now. :hi: )

[Flanker]

83. Some was in state property but others were not

the temporary seizure of equipment on non-state property is the issue at hand.

[EFerrari]

84. Source?

[Flanker]

97. The entire country is not a national park

That might be the biggest tipoff ;)

[EFerrari]

103. That's simply nonsense. n/t

[Andrushka]

104. Cop-out

Come on, where's this evidence? Saw this just this morning:

Why were the media unaware that arrangements for the transfer of equipment included payment negotiated with the owners of RCTV? The price was not only just, but rather generous. Últimas Noticias disinterred from the archive a resolution from November 16, 1973, made during the first administration of Rafael Cadera, in which the Ministry of Agriculture and Animal Husbandry established that “any installations that RCTV is required to build, the lands, the towers and construction that are built at RCTV’s expense, will be understood as exclusive property of the Republic.”

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/10/1775/

[EFerrari]

108. What a crappy dictator Chavez turns out to be. lol

[EFerrari]

75. You know what is hilarious? Our media is suppressed!

John Pilger just made a new documentary called "The War on Democracy" and it's about US interference in Latin America. AND IT WILL NOT BE RELEASED IN THE UNITED STATES.

But it looks great. There's a blurb at his site:

http://www.johnpilger.com/

[Judi Lynn]

85. Sooner or later it'll be released on DVD, THEN we'll get it! There's a site

mentioned at the link you posted, "bullfrogfilms" which sells Pilger's documentaries.
http://www.johnpilger.com/page.asp?partid=146
You just enter "John Pilger" in the box there.

I'll bet if anyone checks it in 6 months, or a year, they'll have this film. It will be worth the wait.

[EFerrari]

88. Pilger was on Amy's show last week -- maybe on Thursday.

He was very impressive. He talked about Palestine and about Latin America. John Perkins (Economic Hitman) was also on describing the hit job on Chavez and Venezuela and over this weekend, Greg Palast's piece "Finding Bolivar's Heir" has also been on. There is a great deal of good information being put out there.

[Judi Lynn]

89. That's a powerful group of people. Can't get any better than that.

Just went to look for a way to stream that program, found there is some radio station right in my area, of which I've never heard, which carries it. Now this is great news.

Anyone can search for his/her area at this site. Look in the left column, below the search box:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/09/1526251

(Good luck, good health, long life to Amy Goodman. Hope she remembers to avoid small aircraft, and doesn't stand in front of open windows!) She has kept on moving, never dimming her lights, even after the pressure the _Bush administration, and the Congressional Republicans have put on public radio.)

[EFerrari]

91. LinkTv also offers podcasts: www.linktv . org n/t

[David__77]

41. Pamela Lora should inspect an Iraqi morgue.

Maybe when she sees the real death toll from US aggression she won't be so trite about Chavez's anti-imperialism

[conspirator]

61. Uni students?! Give them free booze, rock concerts and condoms and they...

will protest against anything you tell them. I was in uni I know how it works.

[BestCenter]

92. Why don't you ask the kids at Tiananmen square? (n/t)

[Judi Lynn]

96. Why not provide some links which will show us the simililarity? It would be helpful. n/t

[BestCenter]

112. It's a student protest.

When have the youth ever rallied for a wrong cause? They've got classes to study for, you know.

[conspirator]

122. Rich kids and most middle class kids in Uni are not worried about studying or finishing the degree.

Thats secondary. They are enjoying the last years of good life at their parents expense.

[Judi Lynn]

124. You never hear of college kids rallying for an odd "cause," for sure.

That's because they're all geniuses, isn't it? Where else are you going to find Young Republicans, anyway? They are well known for their race-baiting "cookie sales" around the country, and their race-mocking parties. I especially admire them for their activities like attending the Republican National Convention in New York where one of them knocked down a protesting Democrat, and started kicking her in front of a crowd, including someone who got his picture for posterity. What a noble young man.

But, as you so aptly point out, they are all God's gift to the world, except for the leftist ones among them.

Here are some examples of well intentioned "rallying" plucked from the first google grab which loomed into view in a quick search:

Students Riot in Response to Alcohol Crackdown; Alcohol and Drug Arrests Rise on College Campuses ALCOHOL
May-June 1998

On several campuses near the end of the Spring semester, large groups of students have clashed with police in protests over student alcohol policies and enforcement practices ("Student Rioters Demand the `Right to Party,'" Chronicle of Higher Education, May 15, 1998; Leo Reisberg, "Some Experts Say Colleges Share the Responsibility for the Recent Riots," Chronicle of Higher Education, May 15, 1998; Rene Sanchez, "Campus Alcohol Crackdowns Bring Mix of Rage and Relief," Washington Post, May 10, 1998, p. A3).

Alcohol-related deaths on campuses nationwide in recent years, and great concern about liability and drug and alcohol behavior, have prompted colleges to crack down on underage and irresponsible drinking. However, some students have responded by protesting for the right to drink in familiar areas and during traditional party weekends. "The situations we're dealing with on alcohol keep getting more serious," said Peter McPherson, president of Michigan State University. "No campus can escape this issue."

At Michigan State University in Lansing on May 1, about 2,000 students rioted after administrators announced a ban on alcohol at Munn Field, a popular spot for tailgate parties before football games. Police barred students from entering the field. Students threw bottles and rocks at police standing along a fence surrounding the field, and then toppled the fence. Students began chanting and marched toward the university president's house, but protestors left after discovering he was not home. Protestors eventually poured into city streets, rioting and lighting fires. Police in riot gear confronted the protestors, and several people were treated for tear gas-related injuries (Kit Lively, "At Michigan State, A Protest Escalates Into A Night of Fires, Tear Gas, and Arrests," Chronicle of Higher Education, May 15, 1998; Kathy Barks Hoffman, "Students protest at Michigan State," Daily Gazette (Schenectady, NY), May 3, 1998, p. A3).

At the University of Connecticut at Storrs, hundreds of students rioted in response to new drinking rules established for "University Weekend," the last weekend before final exams. Campus and state police said students threw rocks and bottles at them during parties on Friday and Saturday nights. On Saturday night, April 25, police responded with dogs and pepper spray to break up a party when a bonfire threatened to burn down an apartment unit. The following day, police responded similarly after students placed a burning couch on top of a car. Eighty-seven people were arrested, and thousands of dollars in damage to university property resulted from the melee. "University Weekend" in 1997 was also marred by riots and arrests. "You combine the 21-year-old drinking law and the fact that students don't consider a party a success unless it has alcohol, and you've got a real recipe for problems," said Mark A. Emmert, chancellor of the University of Connecticut (Ben Gose, "At Connecticut's Party Weekend, Days of Music Replaced By Nights of Vandalism," Chronicle of Higher Education, May 15, 1998; "Police and UConn Students Trade Charges After Weekend Melee," New York Times, April 28, 1998, p. A18).
(snip)

http://www.ndsn.org/mayjun98/alcohol.html

[Matilda]

77. A point by point description from someone on the ground in Caracas,

not someone writing from a nice office in Wall Street, gives quite a
different slant to the events. He sets out, event by event, the ties
between the anti-Chavez students and the opposition.

"Step One: Don't Be Seen

"Firstly, opposition parties made a clear decision to stay out of the spotlight, emphasizing the "independent" and "spontaneous" nature of the student protests. Beyond anything else, this gesture proves the degree to which the opposition has been discredited, garnering a reverse Midas touch through years of poor decisionmaking and supporting coups. From the beginning, the government was arguing that opposition politicians were behind the student mobilizations, and so when government-run channel 8 covered one of the early student demonstrations in Plaza Brion in Chacaito, the headline read "opposition demonstration disguised as a student demonstration."


(snip)

Step Two: Construct "the Students"

"The second element of the opposition's strategy is to present the students as a unified mass. This is not as difficult as it may seem: Venezuela's university system is notoriously exclusionary, and this applies both to private universities like the Andrés Bello Catholic University (UCAB) and selective public universities like the Central (UCV). In most of these bodies, which represent the wealthy historical cream of Venezuelan society, the opposition has significant strength, controlling most of the official student unions and political bodies."

(snip)

"A Scripted Performance in the Assembly

The efforts of the students to appear peaceful and democratic ultimately led them down a blind alley. This alley ended in the National Assembly, and revealed with absolute clarity the falseness of the "unity" of the student movement. Perhaps not expecting a positive response, the opposition students demanded first to be received at the Assembly, and later to be given the opportunity to address the national parliament in an emergency session. Unfortunately for them, Assembly President Cilia Flores accepted."

(snip)

"When it came to be his turn to speak, Chavista student leader Héctor Rodríguez of the UCV stepped up to the podium with a sheet of paper that he promptly held up in front of the gathered deputies. It was the last page of the opposition's scripted performance in the Assembly, which laid-out the text of the speech and the exact moment at which Barrios was to remove his red shirt. And the script was signed by ARS Publicity, a company owned by none other than the Globovisión media empire. Together with Globovisión (as well as all other private media outlets), ARS was directly implicated in the planning and execution of the 2002 media coup against the constitutional order.

"Let's go over this again, slowly: the students' withdrawal from the National Assembly was scripted. This isn't all that surprising. But that it was scripted by an organization owned by the opposition press is quite revealing. It makes transparent not merely the political nature of the opposition students and the fact that they don't represent the totality of Venezuelan students, but more importantly it reveals the fact that the opposition media has played an active role in planning and structuring this wave of student protests that they themselves have painted as a "spontaneous" rebellion."

The full article by George Ciccariello-Maher, a PhD student in political
theory at Berkeley who is currently living in Caracas, is well worth
reading - for anyone interested in the truth.

http://www.counterpunch.org/maher06092007.html

[EFerrari]

78. LOL! Thanks, Matilda.

These people never learn. When they tried to install that dictator during the coup, they had him announce that Chavez was out and then everyone in the tv studio chanted "Democracy! Democracy!" -- because foisting dictators on people is so very democratic. :)

[Judi Lynn]

80. What a WONDERFUL bit of reading you've posted. So cool to get it just now, too.

Really glad the author took the time to get his observations down to share with those of us who can't see for ourselves, and would otherwise have to depend on propaganda for our information diet!

From the article, really priceless stuff:

~snip~
.....From the beginning, the government was arguing that opposition politicians were behind the student mobilizations, and so when government-run channel 8 covered one of the early student demonstrations in Plaza Brion in Chacaito, the headline read "opposition demonstration disguised as a student demonstration."

This claim was perhaps justified by the appearance at the demonstration of Leopoldo López, mayor of opposition stronghold Chacao, formerly of far-right party Primero Justicia, which he more recently abandoned in favor of Manuel Rosales' nominally social democratic Un Nuevo Tiempo. Opposition news channel Globovisión countered with the thoroughly unconvincing claim that López, 36 years old and an established politician, was a "youth leader." López himself wouldn't help the situation when at a press conference he "accidentally" called for the students to employ "non-peaceful" tactics (he later claimed that he had meant to call for "non-violent" forms of protest.)
(snip)

Photo of Leopoldo López, the opposition mayor of Chacao...

http://www.notitarde.com.nyud.net:8090/portadas/ediciones/aniver/aniver2003/imganiver/leopoldolopez.jpg

[EFerrari]

87. This sounds *exactly* like the hamfisted, staged demonstrations

they put on during the coup. These people need all that money because they're too stupid to live.

[Judi Lynn]

81. Corp Media Outraged: Venezuela Expands Free Speech

Corporate media outraged: Venezuela expands free speech

Green Left Weekly
Stuart Munckton
31 May 2007
Venezuela has been facing the most sustained campaign of destabilisation, including a barrage of media lies internationally and violent riots inside Venezuela, since the last serious attempt to overthrow the left-wing government of Hugo Chavez in 2004.

On May 27, the 20-year concession to broadcast over the state-owned Channel 2 airwave, which had been granted to multi-millionaire Marcel Granier’s RCTV, expired. The Chavez government made the decision, in accordance with laws established by a pre-Chavez government, not to renew RCTV’s concession, but instead to use the channel to establish a new public TV station, Venezuelan Social Television (TVes).

The new channel, which began broadcasting just after midnight on May 27, has been set up via a loan from a state-run bank. However it will quickly be required to become self-funded. The government will have no say over the content of the new station, which will purchase programs made by independent producers.

RCTV will be able to continue broadcasting via satellite or cable, and station heads have indicated they intend to do so. In case the station uses the non-renewal of its concession as an excuse to lay off workers, the Venezuelan government has guaranteed all of RCTV’s work force jobs at the newly created station.

The government has explained that its decision is a direct result of RCTV’s repeated violations of the law. RCTV has been responsible for more than 600 violations of Venezuela’s broadcasting law, including regularly broadcasting pornography, and has refused to pay fines for such infractions. It has also been accused of non-payment of taxes. The station has been strongly criticised for rarely allowing on air Venezuelans of indigenous or African heritage, even though they are the majority of Venezuela’s population.

More:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0706/S00112.htm

[Judi Lynn]

90. Venezuela clashes also about race and class

Venezuela clashes also about race and class
by Richard Gott
June 10, 2007

The Guardian

(June 7) After 10 days of rival protests in the streets of Caracas, memories have been revived of earlier attempts to overthrow the Bolivarian revolution of Hugo Chávez, now in its ninth year. Street demonstrations, culminating in an attempted coup in 2002 and a prolonged lock-out at the national oil industry, once seemed the last resort of an opposition unable to make headway at the polls. Yet the current unrest is a feeble echo of those tumultuous events, and the political struggle takes place on a smaller canvas. Today's battle is for the hearts and minds of a younger generation confused by the upheavals of an uncharted revolutionary process.

University students from privileged backgrounds have been pitched against newly enfranchised young people from the impoverished shantytowns, beneficiaries of the increased oil royalties spent on higher education projects for the poor. These separate groups never meet, but both sides occupy their familiar battleground within the city, one in the leafy squares of eastern Caracas, the other in the narrow and teeming streets in the west. This symbolic battle will become ever more familiar in Latin America in the years ahead: rich against poor, white against brown and black, immigrant settlers against indigenous peoples, privileged minorities against the great mass of the population. History may have come to an end in other parts of the world, but in this continent historical processes are in full flood.

Ostensibly the argument is about the media, and the government's decision not to renew the broadcasting licence of a prominent station, Radio Caracas Television (RCTV), and to hand its frequencies to a newly established state channel. What are the rights of commercial television channels? What are the responsibilities of those funded by the state? Where should the balance between them lie? Academic questions in Europe and the US, the debate in Latin America is loud and impassioned. Here there is little tradition of public broadcasting, and commercial stations often received their licence in the days of military rule.

The debate in Venezuela has less to do with the alleged absence of freedom of expression than with a perennially tricky issue locally referred to as "exclusion", a shorthand term for "race" and "racism". RCTV was not just a politically reactionary organisation which supported the 2002 coup attempt against a democratically elected government - it was also a white supremacist channel. Its staff and presenters, in a country largely of black and indigenous descent, were uniformly white, as were the protagonists of its soap operas and the advertisements it carried. It was "colonial" television, reflecting the desires and ambitions of an external power.

More:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=13037

[ProudDad]

94. Isn't if funny that when the facts are posted

the anti-Chavistas go scurrying back into the wainscoting?

:shrug:



Thanks Judi Lynn for your good work...

[Judi Lynn]

98. They ALWAYS completely ignore them altogether, as if they had never happened.

They let the info. flow by them, then show up again yammering the same nonsensical, baseless, disconnected remarks, making hallucinatory comparisons, assertions, drawing impossible similarities. It's all done to assure you they know not one bit more than before, and that's the way they intend to keep it. They travel light!

I ALWAYS look forward to your reality based posts, and respect the fact you very well know whereof you speak, so very much more completely than all of them, having learned it in person, while they only have propaganda to advise them. Thank you for taking the time to add life-sustaining reality!

[TankLV]

109. The. Silence. Is. Deafening.

Silence says a LOT!...

[EFerrari]

110. Well, neighbor, I guess there's something about 'I don't know"

and "I'll have to look it up" that is intimidating. :shrug:

And Judi Lynn, :yourock:

[conspirator]

95. Yes. The same rigid class hierarchy exists in Brazil. If you are born poor you die poor. nt

[Judi Lynn]

99. We've all been kept completely ignorant about Latin America, but what's different about DU'ers is

that they start sensing this, and start looking for the missing information!

Right-wingers merely try to reinforce the density of the ignorance they already enjoy.

Were you shocked when the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES asked an official from Brazil if Brazil has black people living there? Astonishing, isn't it?

Sure hope Brazil will be able to arise from the situation you describe.

[yurbud]

100. I noticed this with Mexican TV--mostly white people while most of the Mexicans who live in SoCal

are mestizo.

[Flanker]

102. Yup when they were doing their cryfest the last day

It was shocking how all the on air personalities were white, it was rare to see even a black cameraman.

[yurbud]

107. could you see the shackle chaining him to the camera?

[yurbud]

101. Chavez probably has a higher approval rating in US than Bush & Cheney combined

but the DLC fartknockers keep trying to make him a boogie man.

[TankLV]

105. Let's see - the WSJ - same as the moonie times...

real "unbiased" reporting there...

[Psephos]

111. No, the WSJ news division is superb

The op-ed division is a different story.

You might check on some of the journalism blogs (Romanesko, for example) - you'll find that there's a well-known firewall between news and opinion at WSJ, and that the reporters pride themselves on staying free of intrusions.

I'm not saying WSJ news is devoid of a point of view, but they do a damned good job of reporting the news without proselytizing - a rarity on both sides of the political spectrum these days.

[EFerrari]

113. That sure isn't my reading experience. n/t

[Psephos]

117. I tear out the op-ed page and pitch it before I read the rest of the paper

Then life is good. :-)

Haven't crossed paths with you in a while here, sfexpat...your opinions are always worth consideration. Take care.

[EFerrari]

118. You, too.

:)

[IndianaGreen]

114. In Venezuela, Reality TV

Published on Sunday, June 10, 2007 by TruthDig.com

In Venezuela, Reality TV

by Rosa Miriam Elizalde

In ancient Greece, when a crime was committed, punishment was meted out by the sword. Today we understand the difference between the means of punishment and the end result. In Venezuela, as Eleazar Díaz Rangel, director of the newspaper Últimas Noticias, advised, this distinction remains perfectly clear. From now on, he affirmed in his Sunday column, “The owners of RCTV can no longer use Channel 2 to inform and misinform according to their political or commercial interests. In this sense, the decision affects them, but the possibility of working through other means-television, radio, business interests-is not denied them.” In the game of manipulation, Marcel Granier, the owner of the network, has come out as a strong candidate for canonization by major international media, which paint him as a victim. No one now remembers RCTV’s suicidal rallying calls in support of the coup of April 2002, or its obstinate refusal to broadcast information about the popular protests that made possible Chavez’s return to Miraflores.

With Granier as the hero of the bonfire of political vanities, a new villain has appeared-the businessman Gustavo Cisneros. A new and unexpected kindling feeds the fires of the opposition demonstrations in eastern Caracas: copies of the best-seller “Cisneros: Un Empresario Global,” the biography of the owner of television station Venevisión, whose license was renewed on May 28.

Venevisión participated with RCTV and other private television stations in the coup against President Chávez in April 2002. The memories of journalists, television executives and coup plotters congratulating each other for their close collaboration in the coup are still fresh in the minds of Venezuelans.

In 2003, Cisneros met with Chávez and with ex-President Jimmy Carter. Since then, he has changed his violently anti-Chavista rhetoric and his calls for civil disobedience, while maintaining his criticism of the Venezuelan government. Shortly afterwards, another VHF national television station, Televen, followed suit.

Venevisión and Televen are proof positive that the end of RCTV´s license to transmit is not the nationalization of the mass media in Venezuela. In this country, more than others in Latin America, there is a plethora of media: privately owned commercial media (80 percent), state-owned media, public service media (TVES) and community media.

Why ignore this reality? Why do so few now remember that Venevisión and Televen are still there, opponents of Chávez, but yet with their licenses extended?

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/10/1775/

[Matilda]

115. One thing this article doesn't mention,

is the personal ties between Granier and Cisneros.

RCTV is owned by the Phelps family - Granier is married to Dorothy Phelps, while Cisneros is married to Patricia Phelps, her sister.

I just hope Chavez is using a long spoon when he sups with Cisneros.

[Bo]

120. btw...Chavez has NO intention of ever leaving power

In order for the Delusional Dictators wealth redistribution to work, he knows he must be in power for at least another 20 years. Chavez has no plans to leave office EVER.

[EFerrari]

121. Thanks for the tip!:

:wtf:

[conspirator]

123. So be it. I am sure he is competent, better than any puppet. nt