GM Shifts Engineers to Speed Creation of Electric Car

[gravity]

Source: Bloomberg.com

By Jeff Green

June 15 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. is reassigning 500 engineers to speed up the creation of the Chevrolet Volt, an electric car designed to close the automaker's technology gap with Toyota Motor Corp.

The engineers will transfer from research and development to production engineering and other areas aimed at preparing the Volt for sale, said Larry Burns, vice president of R&D at the Detroit automaker. The Volt and its fuel-cell powerplant are moving from ``theory'' to ``reality,'' he said in an interview.

...

``This would leapfrog the current hybrid technology,'' said Kim Hill, an associate director at the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan. ``Right now, you still have to go to a gas station to drive your hybrid. With the Volt, you can avoid that.''

GM's initial goal of selling 1,000 Volts by the end of the decade hinges on developing a reliable, long-lasting battery. If that target is met, the largest U.S. automaker expects to sell 1 million within five years to make the model profitable.

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abR.mR3rTSuQ&refer=home

[Buzz Clik]

1. "Creation" of electric cars? They're a bit late.

As usual, GM will be playing catch up.

[underpants]

Hey what's a century really mean anyway?

as the movie "Who killed the electric car?" points out-at the turn of the LAST century most cars were electric. As you can imagine their was some trepidation about sitting on top of thousands of gas fueled explosions so they went with the safe way-electric.

[susanna]

16. GM has produced an electric car before.

GM has a lot more talent than you might think.

It's the management that blows, just for the record. Their engineers are some of the best in the world.

[Sherman A1]

2. Didn't they already create an electric car

then kill it?

:argh: :freak:

[Star]

6. Yes, you're right

They already created an electric car, they were leased and on the road, people loved them, then they recalled all of them with no explanation and crushed them. Over many objections.

See the video "Who Killed the Electric Car".

[IndianaGreen]

15. Who Killed the Electric Car?

Who Killed the Electric Car? is a 2006 documentary film that explores the birth, limited commercialization, and subsequent death of the battery electric vehicle in the United States, specifically the General Motors EV1 of the 1990s. The film explores the roles of automobile manufacturers, the oil industry, the US government, batteries, hydrogen vehicles, and consumers in limiting the development and adoption of this technology.

It was released on DVD to the home video market on November 14, 2006 by Sony Pictures Home Entertainment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

[KansDem]

22. My family and I saw this documentary last weekend. If you want you blood pressure to rise...

...see this movie!

GM designed and produced a fleet of electric cars that were very efficient and economical to operate. Moreover, they were stylishly designed (something you don't see too often with "experimental cars.") I would have liked to have owned one. There was a waiting list of customers for these cars, but GM pulled them all out of service and destroyed them.

Made no sense whatsoever!

[fortyfeetunder]

32. definitely see this movie

Though the outcome (politics trumps technology) is obvious, the movie gives more of a consumer point of view of the modern electric car's birth and demise.

In the end, the Big 3 and the Japanese motor companies will have no choice but to evolve to a mostly-hybrid fleet.

[susanna]

18. Just to keep things in perspective,

Toyota ALSO had an electric car that they deemed unprofitable; they killed theirs, too. So it isn't just GM who pulled the plug originally. The auto manufacturers aren't talking out of their rear ends when they say a technology needs to be stable, reliable and repeatable. Too many consumers think these corporations are bluffing when they are not; the stability of these technologies are absolutely crucial to creating a mass-market vehicle.

[jaksavage]

13. Must be smoking dope

Cause they forgot what happened in the 80's.

[gravity]

17. The volt is a plug in hybrid car

You use the electric engine for short daily commutes, and a supplemental gas engine for longer trips.

It's a different beast which accounts for the drawbacks of having an electric only vehicle.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

3. from the article:

"The engineers will transfer from research and development to production engineering and other areas aimed at preparing the Volt for sale,..."

Right. It's not enough to have an electric car or design an electric car. GM is in business to make money. It has to produce and sell an electric car. That's the important part. If they can't make money producing and selling them, all those electric cars sitting unsold in parking lots won't do them a bit of good.

Edited to add: I have seen one EV-1, several years ago. It was parked in a lot in front of the CompUSA in Alexandria VA; it had Michigan plates. I went inside hoping to meet the owner. I had him paged, but I never did find him.

Also, I just checked out the library's copy of "Who Killed the Electric Car," for which I have been waiting a few weeks. They were supposed to call me when it came back in.

[underpants]

5. "Who killed" had more theatrics in it than I expected - there is a demand for an e car

just like there is a demand for hybrids.

The movie is very good. It all came down to one man's vote in the Ca. board and somehow he suddenly flipped his vote.

You will love the movie.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

7. a friend who just saw it

wrote me an email saying that it was infuriating.

[underpants]

8. I wasn't as mad from at as I was envious

I WANT ONE BAD

That thing would be absolutely perfect for me. A friend of ours (not of our political stripe mostly though he did vote for Webb) brought it up in conversation a few weeks ago. This surprised me because I didn't expect him to bring up anything political but he was literally salivating for one and this is Joe Nascarfan.

You could tell from the people in this movie that they really LOVED this car.

The infuriating part was how the vote on the board was so openly coerced. Also there was the part about how the marketing for this great idea was clearly purposely hamfisted so as to actually NOT create demand.

[MindPilot]

46. I believe that man was San Diego's own Ron Roberts

The same guy who doesn't like Cali's medical marijuana law so he sued the DEA to force them to shut down the county's dispensaries. Real piece of right wing shit.

[Kolesar]

4. That article "jumps around" between fuel-cell and battery descriptions

If a reader had not been following the technology carefully, the reader might thing that pluggable hybrid automobiles use a fuel cell.

[Efilroft Sul]

9. Here's the electric car of my dreams.

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php

Yeah, I need $98,000 for it. But, damn, Tesla rocks.

[susanna]

25. ...as an auto industry insider,

I adore Tesla. I hope they do well.

I want one too. :-)

[valerief]

10. Create? I didn't know 'create' was a synonym for 'restore.' nt

[wtmusic]

11. There already is a reliable long-lasting battery.

Actually, several flavors. Another smokescreen from GM.

I'm going to miss them when they're gone. :P

[greenman3610]

12. Gm has gotten religion on this

I think they get it that their survival now depends on
getting there first.
The Volt is a very promising vehicle if it
delivers what is promised.
CEO Rich Waggoner now says that killing the
EV-1 was their worst mistake ever.

[skids]

20. What they get...

...is that the Cobasys patent they've been relying on to keep such products off the market doesn't cover Li-ion batteries or ultracapacitors, the former of which is quite able to handle the task and the latter of which is showing signs of rapid development.

[gravity]

24. The Volt is more about image than it is about the direct profits

GM hopes that it will give the company a more environmentally friendly image, like Toyota today, which encourage folks to buy their other vehicles.

[Kittycat]

14. They might want to start by redesigning their onboard computers

We have a buick that's not even 3yo, and is on it's 3rd battery. It's had the computer system reprogrammed, and certain radio buttons removed from use to try and control the mysterious power draw. It's a common flaw in their system, and now that we're 15miles over our warranty, we're royally screwed. This is one area that I don't support buying american. That car also had a purchase price of over $43K, today it's worth $14,400 as a resell.

I'm buying a honda next.

[pokercat999]

29. Good move Kittycat, I'm on my 4th Honda. The other three

I gave to my son after over 100,000 miles of trouble free use. My current Oddessy van was fully loaded and cost about 27K. I can carry seven people or remove the seats and load a 4 X 8 foot sheet of plywood in the back. My ONLY complaint about this vehicle is that Honda made the middle seats removeable and the rear seat fold down into the floor. Just the opposite of what it should have been. Otherwise it's near perfect as were my other 3 Hondas. I've now have over 65K on this 2005 model and have never had a repair outside of regular routine maintenance, typical of all my Hondas.

Honda #1, 1990 Civic over 400K miles, died in a crash
Honda #2, 1996 Civic over 300K miles, sold or given away to a friend of my son
Honda #3, 2004 Element over 100K still in service as a daily driver
Honda #4, 2005 Oddessy over 65K and going on a 2000 mile round trip next week

3 and 4 have never had a repair outside of routine maintenance tires and oil changes, both vehicles are still on their original brake pads!

[Hekate]

44. Just got our first Honda, after three Toyotas. Great reviews from Consumer Reports.

As I've said here before, I feel badly for the American auto worker, but I can't lay out that kind of cash for something that's the product of 30 or more years of bad management decisions.

We got rid of our Tercel at age 24, and our Camry wagon just turned 17. The Honda Accord is new this summer, and based on CR's ratings I expect the same kind of longevity from it.

I'm really sorry about your Buick.

Hekate

[Orsino]

19. Just another "we still don't have an electric car yet" PR piece.

They've shown us pictures of the car they would have if they had the batteries. The batteries they still haven't developed.

They're calling it an electric car, but it's clear from this story that what they're aiming for is a plug-in hybrid.

[ShortnFiery]

21. GM needs to consult with - buy into "Electrovaya" technology!

http://www.electrovaya.com/innovation/zev_tech.html

Introducing The Maya - 100
Electrovaya’s Breakthrough Zero-Emission Transportation
• Powered by the award-winning lithium ion SuperPolymer® battery
• Up to 230 mile / 360 km range
• Lightweight, with excellent handling and acceleration
• Proprietary lithium battery,-five times the energy density of lead acid batteries at less than one-third of the weight.
• Unique battery design allows for hill climbing, and cold weather operation.
• Top speed (regulated) of 140 kph / 80 mph
• The pure battery ZEV features very low maintenance costs and operating costs at less than cent per kilometer.

Absolutely Zero-Emission …
Typical automotive exhaust pollutants include: unburned hydrocarbons (potential carcinogens), nitrogen oxides (contribute to acid rain), carbon monoxide (deadly gas), and carbon dioxide (greenhouse gas). In contrast to hybrid EVs (which still require gasoline) and fuel cell EVs, the MAYA-100 is a true zero-emission vehicle with over 90% efficiency in use of electrical power

[gravity]

23. Lithium batteries are too expensive to be commercially feasible

It would be great if the price went down, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.=

[Scout1071]

26. Bullshit. They are so far behind Tesla, it's not even funny.

Tesla, Toyota and others are forcing them to do it. GM now sees how freakin' awesome the Lithium battery based cars are performing and how much they are in demand and they are - as usual - trying to play catch-up.

[susanna]

27. Tesla probably studied GM technology

when designing their car. There is no way some little upstart, minor capital company just had the R&D in place to create an electric car, Lithium battery or no. They had help or used pre-existing technologies. I'd bet on it.

[Psephos]

31. Thanks for the informed posts. Lots of peeps on this thread wanna see GM fail.

I don't understand why, given that UAW jobs, benefits for dependents and retirees, and tax payments to cities in which plants are located are all on the line. Seems like a progressive win to me.

It would be nice to see an even mildly supportive GM/Ford thread on DU sometime.

Meanwhile, tell us a little more about your industry experience, susanna. You have valuable info.

[susanna]

40. Thanks, Psephos.

I completely agree with you. I feel beat up with all the threads bashing the domestics. I too would like to see even some semi-support, considering all benefits auto jobs have meant to so many states and cities, and to the Democratic party through the UAW's fund-raising efforts.

As for background, I started in the automotive industry during college, 20 or so years ago. I was one of those idealistic "change the corporation from the inside" folks. I continue trying to this day. I have worked at all of of the olden-days domestic "Big 3," and have been offered jobs at most of the Asian companies over the years. I'm now a consultant. My experience is varied; I have done stints in product testing, powertrain, electronics/electro-mechanical engineering, mechanical engineering, IT systems, marketing, manufacturing, finance, logistics and program management. I guess you could say I've seen the mountain, and it's way bigger than I ever dreamed. I'm thankful I was able to see so much of the industry through my varied assignments. It gave me a "big picture" most don't get to see, especially if they work at an automotive OEM in only one capacity.

I also happen to be one of those strange people who feel an innate need to truly understand the industry I work in, so I keep track of most everything automotive I can. It doesn't hurt that my husband is a rather talented automotive engineer. We talk shop all the time. He helps me understand complex engineering concepts where needed, and I keep him abreast of what he calls the "soft side" of the business (marketing, finance, program management, IT systems). It works out well.

I do always to listen to critics, and I do take that information back to the companies I work with. Most are avidly interested in all the criticism I hear on this board. So I'm not sticking my head in the sand; the domestics can improve, and I hope to help them.

Sorry if you got more than you bargained for, Psephos, but I realized in writing this post my background had more ins-and-outs than I thought. Forgive me if I elaborated too much. :-)

[IDemo]

34. Tesla had plenty of help, but from GM, no

The AC-150 drivetrain: including motor controller, battery charging circuit, and bi-directional (vehicle to grid) interface all came from AC Propulsion. The chassis was designed by Tesla using "key technology" from Lotus.

[susanna]

36. That's interesting info.

I am certainly not dissing Tesla. Hell, I want one. But I don't think that any electric car is developed in a vacuum. Every previous generation of EVs contributes to those that come after, and I don't think Tesla is an exception to rule; that's all I'm saying.

[IDemo]

39. Turns out there is some common lineage between Tesla and the EV-1

Alan Cocconi, the "AC" in AC Propulsion, designed the drive and solar tracking systems for the GM SunRaycer which won the 1987 World Solar Challenge. He later (about 1990) designed and built the controller for the original GM Impact, which became the EV-1.

[susanna]

42. Wow - thanks for that info!

I have generally assumed (I know, I know) that the EV world is pretty small, which is why I posted what I did earlier. I usually figure on a generational model, especially with EVs - they are so unique.

For the record, I meant what I said in my previous post: I absolutely LOVE the Tesla, and want one. :-)

[gravity]

41. The telsa isn't commercially feasible

unless you consider a $100k electric car a success. Toyota isn't doing much to bring an electric car to the market either, and is focusing on hybrids for the time being.

If GM pulls this off, it would be ahead of the competition in developing an electric vehicle with the capabilities of a gas powered car.

It's one thing to come up with an electric car, which they have been around for over 100 years, it's another thing to make it a commercial success. In order for this to happen, the car has to be reasonably priced with similar capabilities as a conventional car. GM is one of the few, if not only, company who is realistically trying to pull this off.

[IDemo]

45. The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (from CEO Elon Musk)

As you know, the initial product of Tesla Motors is a high performance electric sports car called the Tesla Roadster. However, some readers may not be aware of the fact that our long term plan is to build a wide range of models, including affordably priced family cars.

<snip>

Without giving away too much, I can say that the second model will be a sporty four door family car at roughly half the $89k price point of the Tesla Roadster and the third model will be even more affordable. In keeping with a fast growing technology company, all free cash flow is plowed back into R&D to drive down the costs and bring the follow on products to market as fast as possible. When someone buys the Tesla Roadster sports car, they are actually helping pay for development of the low cost family car.

more -> http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/index.php?p=8&

[nebula]

28. Damn, the specs on the Tesla are unbelievable

138 MPG, 0-60 in 4 seconds, looks like a Ferrari, etc.

How in the world is that possible?

The Tesla has to be the most PERFECT automobile ever built. It seems to defy the conventional logic that says there must always be a trade off between performance and efficiency.

But I can hardly believe a 100% electric can pull all of that off.
There has to be some kind of catch? (Besides the price, which isn't unreasonable for a seemingly revolutionary product like this which just came out).

[midnight armadillo]

30. Don't buy all the hype

Do a lot of 4 sec 0-60 runs and you will have a 20 mile range. There's nothing magical here. Acceleration is very costly in terms of energy use. Same with a gas car - in my Saab wagon I can get 32 mpg highway but at wide open throttle the computer says it gets about 9 mpg.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love an electric car since my 25 mile commute easily fits in the range of one. However, the Tesla fervor has made it out to seem like some sort of sci-fi machine. The reality will be a little more down to earth.

Actually, I'd really prefer an EV from someplace like GM than a little startup boutique car maker, the engineering and manufacturing resources at GM naturally dwarf those of Tesla.

[susanna]

47. One thing I would be most interested in...

...is how Teslas will perform in crash testing. I should explain that many people are not aware of the sheer volume of engineering talent that goes into the "everyday" mass-market vehicles most of us drive. They are built to withstand amazing things, and most small companies do not have the R&D background to ensure their compliance with these advanced safety aspects.

A quick glimpse into just what I'm talking about happened just a couple days ago - a small Chinese auto company, Brilliance, wanting to bring their first car (BS-6) to market, failed a crash test in what can only be described as spectacular fashion. The passenger compartment imploded, essentially. In contrast, one thing both the domestics and most Japanese top-runners have in common is decades of incremental (and very stable) crash protection technology - and that is a very, very good thing.

In summation, I hope Tesla has borrowed from the best in that sort of safety engineering.

[dkofos]

33. Hope they put as much effort in the Volt as they did kiiling the EV1!!

[Lorien]

37. Amen to that!

Headline should read "to create ANOTHER electric car".

[hatrack]

35. Blahblahblah car of tomorrow blahblahblah cutting-edge technology blahblahblah American know-how . .

Blahblahblah reinventing the automobile blahblahblah revolutionary design principles blahblahblah hope to bring it to market within the next 15 years blahblahblah

I think that about covers it . . .

[johnnyrocket]

38. Wow, pat on the back, GM's getting rid of the horseless buggies.

...just in time! Welcome to the 90's, General Motors.

Thanks for nothing.

[Hekate]

43. When pigs fly.I'll believe their sincerity when I see half a million of them on the road...

...because so far all it's been is a shell game from these yokels. We've had electric car technology for what? a century?

Hekate