6 states defy law requiring ID cards

[LiberalFighter]

Source: USA Today

Six state legislatures are defying a federal law requiring new driver's licenses that aim to prevent identity theft, fraud and terrorism.

The federal law requires everyone to renew licenses by 2013 with documents showing their Social Security number and home address, and that they are in the USA legally. State Sen. Larry Martin, a Republican from South Carolina, said the law will overwhelm states by requiring agencies to verify documents such as birth certificates.

The defiance by six states could force Congress to reconsider the law, said Barry Steinhardt of the American Civil Liberties Union. "You can't have a national ID card if the residents of six states won't have one," Steinhardt said.


Caption: New Haven, Conn., mayor John DeStafano wants residents to require a city ID card, like this one. A national ID card is being opposed by six states due to cost and privacy concerns.

Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-18-id-cards_N.htm?csp=34

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Someone needs to rip his vital parts out for suggesting a city ID card.

[depakid]

1. when they learn they'll be barred from boarding airplanes...

Just let the Feds TRY to enforce that....

[Tesha]

44. Lawmakers in Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Washington

> Lawmakers in Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, Oklahoma
> South Carolina and Washington...

The list of "NO!" votes on ReaID is getting pretty long.

Tesha

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. The law is completely boneheaded

I don't want my SS number on my DL. Having on the DL can assist fraud and identity thieves if it's lost or stolen. And unless they're going to mandate every individual has a driver's license with the "required" documents pre-checked (not to mention a fake ID), what's the point?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Arkansas just changed

from using SS numbers for driver's licenses to another number just because of identity theft.

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. That makes much more sense. Good for them! n/t

[Buns_of_Fire]

23. Virginia gives you the option

I chose to have them generate a random number for my license. I've become a strong proponent of "If you have no legal need for my SS number, you don't get it."

[DemSoccerMom]

8. I agree completely.

That was actually my first reaction to this post. A few years ago New Jersey (I think it was New Jersey. Maybe it was New York or Maryland or something) DL's used the SS number as the DL number. Well, that was changed BECAUSE of identity theft and it being just a little TOO easy w/ the number on the DL.

OK. So maybe I'm missing something, but would this not have the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS?! Fuckheads . . .

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. Yup. NJ.

There were bartenders and liquor store workers grabbing SSNs when checking IDs, as well as other scams associated with the SSN being on the front of the license. So NJ did something rarely seen: caught a clue and got rid of them on the license.

[Socal31]

30. Already is in CA.....

Thats how the ID-swipe machines can tell how old you are when you are purchasing Alcohol or Tobacco. Its not on the actual card, just on the magnetic strip.

[Thor_MN]

33. Umm, don't you think it might be a tad bit easier to read the birth date

off the mag strip instead of an SSN which would then require a lookup against a SS database to which the liqour stores do not have access?

I don't understand why people are so scared of their SSN. As long as it is only used as your "user ID", not your "password" there is no more danger in the SSN than your address or phone number. If any company says "and to confirm your identity, please give me the last four digits of your SSN" rip them a new one. Do NOT allow a company to use your SSN or part of it to confirm your ID. If they want to use it as your user number, no problems.

[Socal31]

43. Actually, your SSN tells your age

simply by using some of the numbers in it. Some websites now are verifying age by putting in the first and last 2 digits of your SSN, or some combination, I dont remember.

Also, the reason it is an SSN and not birthdate, is because the police have a scanner in thier car too for when you get pulled over. It brings up driving/criminal history with one swipe. It would be hard to do that with just a birthdate.

[Thor_MN]

45. Not true in the slightest. The SSN is not related to your age.

Go here http://www.ssa.gov/history/ssn/geocard.html to refresh that memory. The first three digits are assigned to states. The rest is basically sequential (the middle two go odds first then evens). Knowing the first 5 numbers can get you roughly the year(s) the SSN was assigned, but it's only been in recent years that one needed an SSN at birth. I didn't get mine until I started working (paper route), so mine would indicate 1975 or so, roughly 12 years after I was born.

Did you actually think there is only one piece of information coded in the mag stripe? Every bit of info, minus the picture and signature, of course, is coded in the mag stripe. If you are reading the mag stripe, why would you bother to use the SSN, translating through a messy database lookup which can only tell you when the card was assigned, when the birthdate is right there?

The SSN is not magic, you can tell a person that they got their SSN on the east coast if the first three are low digits, mid west in the middle and west coast on the high side, but that's about it.

[gratuitous]

3. Sounds like citizens are issuing their own signing statements

I wonder if Congress will put up with being ignored by the voters as well as by Chimpy? What measures will they take against us for flouting their duly-enacted laws that they don't impose on the imperial president?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I plan to bring in my family tree

all 1065 pages of it, with citations, if I'm asked for proof of citizenship.

[kestrel91316]

14. Sounds about like mine. I've got a couple dozen Revolutionary

War veterans sprinkled in there, too. That'd REALLY get their panties in a wad.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. Hi, cuz!

I do too--mostly in the Massachusetts line, but one on my father's side from Virginia. I could look at the clerk and ask, "And how many of YOUR relatives were with mine on Bunker Hill?"

[kestrel91316]

20. I've got a major New England 1600s-1700s thing going on on both sides

of my family.........my lifetime genealogy goal is simply to trace back all my lines to my original immigrant ancestors. I'm 50. I'd better hustle.

:hi:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

21. I've been doing it since 1978

and have gotten to a few dead ends, even in New England. Good luck with your search--and I bet we are cousins. When I taught genealogy to a class here in Arkansas, I wound up being cousin to three of my students! All of us had ancestors from New England.

[momzno1]

36. found out a few years ago

that a great, great, great, etc. Grandfather is John Alden and a great, great, great etc, Uncle is George Washington. I just read the book "Mayflower" and now know that John Alden has millions of descendants - can't remember the exact number - so I don't feel quite as "special" but i do think it's great fun to know these details.
I also have some nasty Confederate rascists in my history.... don't like to think about that...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

47. If it makes you feel better

a good friend of mine who is white but who is following the Lakota spiritual path found out he's related to Andrew Jackson! He's not too proud of that.

[Coventina]

38. My grandmother is doing this as well. She's at least temporarily

stalled at 1720 in Virginia. The son of that man fought in the Revolution.

[kestrel91316]

41. My assistant is my 7th cousin......compliments of our common

early Mormon heritage going back to NC and SC. My mom and dad were 10th cousins, lol.

[northofdenali]

32. Wait till the first Inupiat Eskimo whose ancestors arrived about,

oh, say, 10,000 years ago - insists on his/her oral history being a family tree (it is), and then asks the questioner for THEIR proof of "citizenship". Could be interesting.........

[TechBear_Seattle]

6. Resistance is futile

How did the feds enforce a 55 mile an hour speed limit? By excluding states without a 55 mile an hour speed limit from access to federal highway funds. Same with the national drinking age. I believe there is a similar runaround the 10th Amendment with regards to federal drug laws.

All it will take (if the law is not already in place) is for Congress to refuse access to federal highway funds to any state whose drivers licenses do not meet federal standards. The states will grumble and moan and one or two may make a token protest for a few months or maybe even a full year, but as with the speed limit and drinking age, every state will comply before too long.

[napi21]

10. I understand your concern about ID theft and the use of SS #'s,

but are youjust as concerned that your SS # is used on all health insurance forms, tax forms both Fed, State, & Local, all your employment documents, your Cr. Card apps...just about everything you do EXCEPT your DL?

Doesn't it make more sense to improve the SS data base so that ID theft is caught immediately and severly punished?

[LiberalFighter]

12. SS# no longer on insurance cards -- I pushed to have it changed at employment

I don't do credit card apps... I destroy the apps themselves when they have name on it.
Not concerned about SS# on tax returns. No reason to.
Past practice of posting SS# at work has been long discontinued years ago.


Improve the SS database? How? With the federal govt? The govt has not shown competence when it comes to the use of databases and computers. The only way guilty are caught is if the employers do their job and they don't try to opt out to avoid the law.

[Hobarticus]

15. But, I don't carry ANY of those docs in my wallet, like I do my driver's license.

Most of those docs are either locked up in a doctor's office, my employer's office, at the IRS or my tax preparer's office...my wallet, I carry around, and could lose or have stolen, much easier than ANY of these documents.

How are these comparable to my driver's license?

:shrug:

[Hestia]

27. Only give out the last 4 digits of your SSN to anyone - there

is absolutely no need for health, utilites, etc., to have access to the entire number. I've been doing it the last year or so for anyone that asks for my or DH's SSN. I write down the last 4 digits and have not been hassled about it at all. "They" know that the name & last 4 match up when they do any type of check.

[riverdale]

29. any time someone does a credit check on you

they insist on SSN. If you don't give it then you can't get an insurance quote, for instance.

[Thor_MN]

34. You are EXACTLY wrong. Refuse to use your SSN or part of it as your password

If they want to use the SSN as your ID, fine. If they want to use it as PROOF of your ID, that is, your password - not only no, but HELL NO.

By using your SSN or part of it as proof of your ID, you open yourself up to the only way that someone obtaining your SSN can use it for identity theft. A SSN is no more distinguishing or useful than your name, address, phone number, etc, unless your allow it to be used as proof of ID.

In your example, if I obtain your SSN, I only have to remember your name and the last four digits of you SSN to steal your identity - you made it easier for me.

[KamaAina]

11. Also, the HI Legislature passed a resolution opposing this tripe

it does not, alas, carry the force of law. Maybe once that nasty repuke governor goes away next year(term limits)...

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/sessioncurrent/Bills/SCR31_SD1_.htm

WHEREAS, the Real ID Act of 2005 prohibits federal agencies and federally-regulated commercial aircrafts from accepting a driver's license or identification card issued by a state that has not fully complied with the Act; and

WHEREAS, the Real ID Act of 2005 creates a costly unfunded mandate for the states, currently estimated to cost in excess of $11,000,000,000 to implement; and

WHEREAS, the Real ID Act requires the creation of a fifty state distributed public sector database containing information on every American that is accessible to motor vehicle employees and law enforcement officers nationwide and that can be used to gather and manage information on citizens, which is not the responsibility or business of the government; and

WHEREAS, the Real ID Act of 2005 enables the creation of additional massive private sector databases, combining both transactional information and driver's license information gained from scanning the machine-readable information to be contained on every driver's license; and

WHEREAS, it is likely that these public and private databases will contain numerous errors and false information, creating significant hardships on Americans attempting to verify their identities in order to fly, open bank accounts, or perform many other functions required to live in the United States today; and

WHEREAS, the Federal Trade Commission estimates that ten million Americans are victims of identity theft each year, and, because identity thieves are increasingly targeting motor vehicle departments, the Real ID Act of 2005 will further enable the crime of identity theft by making personal information of all Americans more accessible from more locations; and

WHEREAS, the Real ID Act of 2005 contains onerous record verification and retention provisions that place unreasonable burdens on the motor vehicle divisions and on third parties required to verify records; and

WHEREAS, the Real ID Act of 2005 will place enormous burdens on consumers seeking new drivers' licenses, including waiting in longer lines, higher costs, increased document requests, and longer waiting periods; and

WHEREAS, the Real ID Act of 2005 will place motor vehicle division staff on the front lines of immigration enforcement by forcing public employees to determine federal citizenship and immigration status; and...

We, too, just got through removing SSNs from our licenses and IDs because of ID theft. What are these morans thinking?!

[kestrel91316]

13. That city of residence card is just plain creepy.......reminds me way too

much of the Soviet Union.

"Show us your papers."

[customerserviceguy]

16. Maybe I'm reading this differently

...but when I see The federal law requires everyone to renew licenses by 2013 with documents showing their Social Security number... I'm thinking that you have to present a valid document with a Social Security number to verify yourself when renewing a license. The record of that number (if any, it doesn't specifically say that it is kept, but it's probably a good idea) would be locked up in the State's records, and inaccessable to unauthorized users. Putting it on the driver's license is indeed a bad idea, but my reading of this doesn't require it.

[Renew Deal]

17. Don't we already have ID cards?

Drivers licenses, State ID's on request, etc. This seems redundant besides the privacy issues.

[Blaze Diem]

18. Posted Same Earlier Today..but

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3325849&mesg_id=3325849
---------------------------

but thumbs up to New Hampshire for stating the obvious.

The people of New Hampshire are adamantly opposed to any kind of 'papers-please' society reminiscent of Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia," said Neal Kurk, a Republican state representative from New Hampshire. "This is another effort of the federal government to keep track of all its citizens."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Isn't that law illegal?

Legally, Social Security numbers can only be used for Social Security and nothing else.

[pinkpops]

24. One of my lawer friends informed me that the original law was changed.

If you are like me and have an old,old ss card, it says not to be used for ID purposes. Im not sure if they still say that, but, as I said, my friend says the law has been changed to allow it.

[burrowowl]

25. K&R

Go to Downsizer, there is a petition:

http://www.DownsizeDC.org

Subject: The Zombie Immigration Bill and Real ID

[Rosemary2205]

26. I believe you are all mistaken (except laptoprepairguy )

or is it me who's mistaken???

I don't think the federal law requires all states put you SSN right on your driver's license itself. I am pretty sure the requirement is that you bring documents proving you have a valid SSN confirmed at the address you are claiming is yours in order to renew your driver's license.

if I correct this change is totally meaningless in Georgia. The Dept of Motor Vehicles in GA already has my SSN and my fingerprint. It just means I have to haul my ass off to one of the few renewal centers and stand (or in my case sit) in line for 10-14 hours with a bunch of paperwork instead of renewing online.

[Thor_MN]

35. Your state allowed you to renew your driver's license online?

How do they check your eye sight, take your picture, know that it is you? We can get license tabs by mail or online but to renew your driver's license, you have to show up in person.

[mantis49]

42. My husband has been able to renew his by mail for several years.

In IL. Due to being ticket free. He hasn't renewed in person for over ten years. I, on the other hand, have to go in. Lead foot several years ago. And revoked license after a DUI in 1987.

[Thor_MN]

46. Is there no picture on your state's driver's licenses?

MN requires you to pass a vision test each time you renew (6 years?). They changed the style of the licenses just after I last renewed so mine now looks different than the majority of Minnesotan's.

This December, I have to renew and join the rest. What stinks is that now they give you a new number each time, so I have to say goodbye to my driver's license number of 27 years.

[Alexander]

28. DeStefano ran for CT governor last year against Rell.

Yeah, fuck that guy.

[pampango]

31. Plays into the immigration debate, where many propose a "super" national ID

to prevent the employment of illegal workers.

While I understand where they are coming from, I am in the wing of the party that is extremely skeptical of such an ID. For privacy and security reasons I do not support city, state, or national ID's beyond what we have now.

[Solo_in_MD]

37. I use my passport

Its actually cheaper and the D/L or State ID in some states.

[0007]

39. If you thought Hitler was crazy, the book hasn't been written

about junior yet......a few stinking states won't stop this madman.

[kelvinyany]

40. There are already 16 States passed laws rejecting the Real ID Act

And more to come.

Tennessee Becomes 16th State to Adopt Anti-Real ID Measure
A bipartisan Resolution passed by the Tennessee Legislature (SJR0248), which cleared the House floor June 11 by a vote of 88-0, resolves that Real ID "not be implemented by the State of Tennessee."

http://www.realnightmare.org/news/16/

http://www.realnightmare.org/news/105/

[goclark]

48. Medicare Cards have SS #'s on them

How in the world could they do that and require you to keep it with you at all times?

Medicare office says there are so exceptions!

Then a memo was received from the Medical Insurance that said their card will be the number that covers the SS number and to keep your card in a safe place at home.


:mad: