Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

NYT: Dean Vermont Energy Group Met in Private

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:39 PM
Original message
NYT: Dean Vermont Energy Group Met in Private
Edited on Sun Dec-28-03 06:51 PM by Rumpole
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Dean-Energy.html

It's actually an AP story.
Apparently, written by some kind of weasel, it attempts to equate Dean's actions in Vermont with Cheney's in Washington.

"Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean has demanded release of secret deliberations of Vice President Dick Cheney's energy task force. But as Vermont governor, Dean had an energy task force that met in secret and angered state lawmakers."

"The parallels between the Cheney and Dean task forces are many."

Apparently, many = three, and one of those three is dubious.

"Both declined to open their deliberations, even under pressure from legislators. Both received input from the energy industry in private meetings, and released the names of task force members publicly."

The article then goes on to contrast Dean's actions with those of Cheney for better than half of the (web) page, providing support to this statement, made early in the article:

"Dean said his group developed better policy, was bipartisan and sought advice not just from energy executives but environmentalists and low-income advocates. He said his task force was more open because it held one public hearing and divulged afterward the names of people it consulted even though the content of discussions with them was kept secret."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hey, I posted something like this a few days ago....
It got locked by the Mods as being too inflammatory.

Thanks, NY Times...this needs to be looked at.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=28851

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. This Dean supporter will say it
Edited on Sun Dec-28-03 07:09 PM by Don Claybrook
He needs to open the records of the energy company meetings, for better or for worse.

The Democratic nominee will need to be able to blast the Bush Administration on ALL of its lying, cheating, and fraud. It just can't be done effectively if a similar taint exists in one's own background.

It does sound as though the proceedings weren't for the sole purpose of enriching energy company executives, as appears to be the case with the Bush admin. Nevertheless, he needs to make the meeting minutes available to the public and to the press. I hope he comes to his senses on this point soon.

Edit: meant to reply to the root thread, but this will work just as well, I guess.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thank you...
finally someone who is willing to ask this guy to do the right thing.
Prepare to be flamed by your own fellow supporters, however.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I've always contended
that my guy isn't anywhere near perfect. No one else's candidate is, either. Kucinich probably comes closest, in my subjective opinion.

I want to like Howard Dean for the original reasons I liked him. I don't want to have to come up with rationales, with justifications for things he's done/said that I don't like. I don't want to have to "wrap my mind" around a concept I'm uncomfortable with. I'd rather just state that I think he's wrong when I think he's wrong. I think there is a certain percentage of each candidate's supporters who will extend beyond what they're ethically comfortable with in order to agree with something their candidate has said or done that they don't necessarily agree with.

Not me. Dean has screwed some stuff up, plain and simple. But he still comes out on top in my personal candidate calculations, and those are updated all the time. It's a 'support the ideology, not the person' sort of thing.

Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. "Right thing" ...oh, please.
Edited on Sun Dec-28-03 09:10 PM by mouse7
Let's look at what this group was again.

A Vermont state energy conservation guidance task force.

Looks as interesting to the man on the street as a Vermont State Paint-Drying Observation Task Force.

There a LOT of good reasoning that would suggest that absolutely nobody that wasn't assigned to attend would be remotely interested in ever participating or attending such an entity. It's very reasonable to say there was no reason to suggest anyone was anything but bored by the process. Therefore there is no reason to suggest that anyone knew anyone would be interested in the records of said entity, and their documentation basically got forgotten.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. Then no reason not to release the minutes, love.
Sorry, but Bush's secrecy is a huge issue and Dean does need to come clean on this stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Appreciate that
You're brave and honest, and I commend you.

:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. this Gephardt supporter says this article is B.S.
This paragraph downplays what the real key in the Cheney scandal was:

Dean's group volunteered the names of those it consulted with in its final report. While Cheney has refused to formally give a list to Congress to preserve the White House's right to private advice, known as executive privilege, his aides have divulged to reporters the names of many of those from whom the task force sought advice.

The GAO sued Cheney to get the names of the participants, and Cheney fought it bitterly. This article doesn't even mention the lawsuit, and somehow I doubt the claims about the names to the reporters. I don't remember that, and it doesn't fit how hard Cheney fought the case.

In order to compare Dean to Cheney, Solomon had to totally distort the matter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Don Claybrook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. And I agree with you, but
It's that old saw about perception being reality. Cheney's the real bad guy in this one, no doubt about it. But try telling that to the average NYT reader or cable news viewer. The news outlets are and will be creating the "appearance of impropriety" around any Democratic candidate they can get their claws into.

The Bush administration will get by with more than the Democrats do. They've already gotten by with murder and that's not going to be changing.

So I think Dean should release the minutes to this meeting, and I think he just might do it in the next few days. Here's hoping.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
29. This is what I needed to hear.
Thank you.

We can't ever let this stuff sit a minute without refutation and that goes for every one of our contenders. Dean is under attack because he is perceived as the frontrunner, if one of the others wins, the attacks WILL NOT CEASE.

They are out to destroy us. We can't lose our attention for a second (like I just did above).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. Yes, But What Dean Should Do Is
take the position towards the Bush administration "I'll open mine if you open yours. Let's both put our cards on the table."

THAT is the only way to turn the tables. Otherwise Dean will be the only open candidate and nobody will pay attention to Bush and Cheney's stonewalling.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. I hope that is the plan
if not we are in trouble. There is nothing Dean could have ever done that will compair to what is in W/Cheneys closet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
46. I agree
I lean for Dean but hes gotta do the right thing if we can take the BFEE to task for their crimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
48. I agree. However what worries me is the double standard Republicanized
Edited on Mon Dec-29-03 06:46 PM by shance
press,

which for every one Bushism, we get 10 D-merits or swats.

They get mercy, we get justice and the gavel. So if Dean does do open his records, we have to be prepared to bring out these unfair comparisons.

Its like Monica Lewinsky versus Iraq. How many troops are dead now? How justified is this invasion? But sex is ten times worse?

And Dean not going to Vietnam,(and he was also willing to go, and was also AGAINST the war) but what about Bush not going? Is that irrelevant too?

How many double standards could we come up with? This is what concerns me about taking actions.

Fair is fair. But its not fair when one group gets special treatment while the other gets microscopic scrutiny.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. How many "environmentalists and low-income advocates"...
were in Cheney's mtgs?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
3. Please explain
why this:

"Both declined to open their deliberations, even under pressure from legislators. Both received input from the energy industry in private meetings...the content of discussions with them was kept secret."

is not as objectionable as Cheney's "secret deliberations" with HIS Task Force?

Note, I do NOT compare Dean to Cheney in general, I merely act how or why this specific act is different/less objectionable than Cheney's, if that is what you are suggesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. I agree, Kenzee
Closed is closed is closed... no matter how you look at it.
Do I think Dean is as unscrupulous as Cheney? No.
Do I think it doesn't matter because the meeting was closed, so we can't find out? Yes.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Does Vermont have an "open meeting law"???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCDemo Donating Member (847 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. Cheney's energy task force info
Needs to be public because there are a lot of unsavory connections between him, Dubya, and Enron.

Not to mention that there is a lot of evidence that CA was screwed by Enron, etc., and Cheney, etc. blamed it on the state's problems rather than working to punish the energy scammers.



Dean doesn't have that taint, thus doens't need to release the info like Cheney does.

Not to mention, if it's supposed to be all-ok for Cheney to hide his meetings, then Dean can't be wrong.

Check out FR/Lucianne for lots of chatter on this one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Do you believe in open government?
Do you believe that energy companies should hide their true status from consumers?

I, btw, do not believe it was "all-ok" for Cheney to hold secret meetings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shanty Oilish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. They really don't like him, do they?
So Dean "received input from the energy industry in private meetings, and released the names of task force members publicly."

I was born and bred in an energy industry. Trust me on this. Nobody would be dumb enough to give him real input in public and lay themselves open to prosecution for self-incriminating input.

Dean wanted information, in order to craft sensible public policy. He offered confidentiality so he could get maximum good data.

This is the right way to do the thing. Every alternative leads only to faulty data and badly alloyed policy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scoopie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. And that's why
the average person doesn't trust big business - energy or otherwise.
Why are they doing thing that could lead to prosecution? Period.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flattop Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. dont forget..
...dean gave tax breaks to Enron. dont think THATS not gonna be brought up if he gets the nomination.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemDogs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Legitimate criticism
At the time about Dean's secret meetings and his description of it was too self-serving. Even the list of attendees was not made public, I believe. The people he now says were included have been complaining for some time about the access that utility companies and their campaign-cash-donating executives had to Dean, a fact he himself admitted was true.
<http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html>

The criticism of his close relationship with the utilities (and his willingness to leave consumers with the short end of the deal) lasted for over a decade. <http://www.clf.org/advocacy/vermont_yankee_ad.htm>

No matter what you think about Dean, you have to admit that it will be easier for just about every other candidate to complain about Cheney's conduct.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Wait--there is a discrepancy in what is said in two paragraphs
Among others, I'm sure...but here it says:
"Both ....released the names of task force members publicly."

The next graph says:
"Dean's group volunteered the names of those it consulted with in its final report. While Cheney has refused to formally give a list to Congress to preserve the White House's right to private advice, known as executive privilege, his aides have divulged to reporters the names of many of those from whom the task force sought advice." (emphasis added)

Not the same thing at all, at all!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. you are right Maeve
Thanks for posting that.

Julie
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. The reporter must have been drunk
LOL And post #7, just above you says:

" At the time about Dean's secret meetings and his description of it was too self-serving. Even the list of attendees was not made public, I believe."

The media doesn't even have to wait for the rumors to develop!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. They're forgetting
...the many other similarities between Cheney and Dean.

For example, they both have the same number of eyes, and exactly the same number of fingers. I find that damning.

...Although it should be noted that Cheney has a third nipple. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. the Cheney secrecy is another order of magnitude
this article doesn't even mention the GAO lawsuit, just to obtain the list of members Cheney met with. Compared to Dean, who this article says provided that info.

Through the whole scandal, Cheney constantly lied about the GAO lawsuit, saying that it was trying to get minutes from the meetings, when in fact it was not, it was just to get the names of participants.

This article tends to misrepresent the issue in the same way as Cheney did.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Cheney's meetings may also have hastened the invasion of Iraq and...
...Afghanistan, something that the NeoCons would definitely not want revealed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Looks like there is an "agenda" for this story to be told
The score on this story for Yahoo is 3.47. It's not real close to being very popular, but it's still in the popular list. Looks like it doesn't matter what people think. They are getting "told" the story anyway.

Dean's people better have the full details on this ready to be released Mon morn. It's got to look like there's full disclosure going on, and only reason full disclosure didn't happen was because nobody seriously considered the situation worthy of full disclosure, kinda like "full disclosure" of what you ate for dinner last week. You didn't think anyone was remotely interested.

This has to be gotten in front of and made to go away.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. Did Dean screw over millions of energy customers like Cheney did?
.. If so, there's a problem.

If not.. this isn't comparable to me.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. I say bring it on!!!!....Let them equate the negatives of Bush to Dean!!!
It sounds as if the Dem candidate has already been chosen.

Bring out the Cheney skeletons that have yet to be investigated.
This just shows the lack of action that has been taken under
this administration and Dean's backround still looks 1000 times
better than theirs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. Ahem--two wrongs don't make a right.
If Dean is wrong, Cheney is too. And if Dean is right, Cheney is, too. Eithter way, you lose.

rocknation


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jumptheshadow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 06:32 AM
Response to Original message
30. This is the end of the "rah rah" press cycle for Dean
Reporters are starting to take him seriously. They are doing some research into his gubernatorial record.

In other words, they are doing their job.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
31. But NYT doesn't care if leaders meet with energy groups in private
They have given Cheney a free pass on this all the way. Why bring it up now, as if I didn't know. What whores the NYT is composed of.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
32. The issue is not Cheney's secrecy...
although that is a related issue. His secrecy is important because there is a suspicion that he engineered public policy for the sole benefit of his friends, political supporters, and donors. There is not mention nor any hint of that where Mr. Dean is concerned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Dean Recieved Seed Money From His Campaign From Entergy
Further, the action's of Dean's Administration helped Entergy purchase a power plant below cost.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Also
One of the contributors to Deans campaign was also:

One co-chairman of Dean's task force, William Gilbert, was a Republican lawyer who had done work for state utilities. At the time, Gilbert also served on the board of Vermont Gas Systems, a subsidiary of Hydro Quebec.

http://www.primarymonitor.com/news/stories2003/dean_energy_2003.shtml



Dean was involved with both the Hydro-Quebec deal, as well as the sale of Vermont Yankee to Entergy/Koch INdustries (you remember the Koch Brothers, founders of the Ultraconservative Cato Institute)

Also Mr Gilbert was one of the founders of:

Meanwhile, a group of Republicans headed by William Gilbert of Burlington is expected to announce their support for Dean this week...

Gilbert was clearly breaking camp, however.

He said he started to organize the "Republicans for Dean" committee after learning that there were other Republicans who felt as he did...

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/gop_dean.html


Even Dean acknowledged that his fiscal policy was the common ground he shared with the nine men and two women at the table, most of whom admitted to voting for Dean in the last election.

The group, known as "Republicans for Dean" represents the first organized GOP endorsement for Dean in any of his five campaigns.

Gilbert, a former member of the late Gov. Richard Snelling's administration, said he took the initiative to form the group, which boasts a membership of more than 30 moderate Republicans from around the state who back Dean.

He said the committee would support Dean's candidacy by reaching out to other moderates in the party as well as helping Dean with fund-raising.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/repbackdean.html

Gilbert was a member of the Republican administration that precedded Dean. Was also an executive on the board of a Vermont Company that was given what it wanted in the Hydro Quebec Deal (He worked for a Hydro Quebec Subsidiary)


He assisted in the founding of "Republicans for Dean" and gave Dean considerable donations to his campign for the presidency after Dean arranged for the sale of Vermont Yakee to Entergy/Koch Industries. Dena refused to open the record of his cntacts while this deal was being made. Well before his record was sealed after he left upon leaving office as Governor:

CLF seeks details of Dean administration’s talks with utilities
March 11, 2002

(from the State section)
By SUSAN SMALLHEER Southern Vermont Bureau

MONTPELIER — The Conservation Law Foundation will file a freedom of information request with the Dean administration today to find out how many contacts it has had with Vermont utility executives over the pending sale of the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant.

Mark Sinclair, senior attorney with the environmental group, said Monday that recent news reports about the financial contributions made by Vermont utility executives or board members to Gov. Howard Dean’s presidential campaign political action committee were “too much of a coincidence.”

Sinclair said the new offer from Entergy Nuclear of Jackson, Miss., last week wasn’t substantially better than the original bid, and doesn’t really address the serious concerns raised by the state earlier this winter about local control and other economic issues.

“The department didn’t get anything,” he said.

Sinclair compared it to the negotiations with Vice President Dick Cheney by energy companies that are now subject to an investigation by the General Accounting Office

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/Archive/Articles/Article/43924

Dean touts himself as being the candidate who will makew a difference, but Dean, as Governor, exhibited absolutel no difference in the secrecy and back room deals he claims that exist among Washington Insiders. In fact, the records and decision making processes of the other cnadiudates serving in Congress have been and are far more transparant thatn Dean's own dealings as Governor.

It seems that perhap when thinking up excuses as to why he should keep his meeting with energy industry secret, Dick Cheney may have modeled his behavior after Howard Dean, as Deans secret meeting preceded those of the Voce Presidents.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. you both make very good cases
I'm now convinced that Howard Dean is as in bed with the energy industry as the Bush administration, thanks to all your research.

Then again, I'm a TOTAL MORON, who isn't aware that Bush ran an actual oil company, and that his entire cabinet is dripping in oil.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Ditto
I'm a moron like that too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
37. Even the slightest taint loses Dems the Cheney Meetings issue.
Dean now costs us the national security issue, AWOL, and the Cheney Energy Meetings issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. not true
that reporter had to resort to trickery to make the comparison. The comparison wasn't there without Solomon's trickery.

The question is, how easy will we make it for them to lie this time? Just because you like Clark, you're going to help the whores smear the dems?

My answer is, I've written to the A.P. to demand a retraction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. The first paragraph says it all.
That paragraph shows that Dean's energy meetings can be characterized as having been held in secret. He better do something fast, because this also undermines the Dems on the Secrecy issue.

And no. I am not helping the whores smear Dean. I expect them to smear him though, so IMO the sooner the better. Dean is a great guy, but not for 2004.

Clark is not smear-proof, but he's much better than Dean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. but that's not the issue with Cheney
this article fails utterly at characterizing what the Cheney scandal was about.

It was not that the meetings were held in secret. The GAO lawsuit was just to get the names of the participants. The GAO lawyer was pissed to no end that Cheney kept saying that the suit was to get the substance of the meetings, which was a lie.

This article basically advocates that phony Cheney characterization, not even mentioning the GAO suit.

I think Dean will do a good job in overcoming this false characterization, despite people who will let their preferences for another candidate cloud their thinking.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Judial Watch
Antother Organiation who us suing Cheney for the release of these records, is also suing Dean for the release of similar records as Governor. This is not the first time that Dean's secrecy with energy interests has been look at with suspicion as previously posted:

CLF seeks details of Dean administration’s talks with utilities
March 11, 2002

(from the State section)
By SUSAN SMALLHEER Southern Vermont Bureau

MONTPELIER — The Conservation Law Foundation will file a freedom of information request with the Dean administration today to find out how many contacts it has had with Vermont utility executives over the pending sale of the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant.

Mark Sinclair, senior attorney with the environmental group, said Monday that recent news reports about the financial contributions made by Vermont utility executives or board members to Gov. Howard Dean’s presidential campaign political action committee were “too much of a coincidence.”

Sinclair said the new offer from Entergy Nuclear of Jackson, Miss., last week wasn’t substantially better than the original bid, and doesn’t really address the serious concerns raised by the state earlier this winter about local control and other economic issues.

“The department didn’t get anything,” he said.

Sinclair compared it to the negotiations with Vice President Dick Cheney by energy companies that are now subject to an investigation by the General Accounting Office

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/Archive/Articles/Article/43924

Mark Sinclair was a Dean appointee to the Vermont Environmental Board, who along with four other people Dean appointed was purged from the board by Dean when they began to question his relations with big Energy and other environmentally unfriendly decisions Dena made that favored large energy utilities...

The Man from Vermont is Not Green (He's Not Even a Liberal)
by MICHAEL COLBY



Under Dean the Act 250 process (Vermont's primary development review law) and the Agency of Natural Resources (ANR) have lost their way," contends Kaplan. "Dean created the myth that environmental laws hurt the economy and set the tone to allow Act 250 and the ANR to simply be permit mills for developers."

Kaplan points to the "Environmental Board purge" in the mid-90s that allowed Dean to set the pro-development tone. In 1993, the Board issued an Act 250 permit to C&S Grocers in Brattleboro with conditions that restricted the diesel emissions from its heavy truck traffic. After C&S execs cried foul and threatened to move to New Hampshire, Dean broke gubernatorial precedent by publicly criticizing the Environmental Board for issuing what he called a "non-permit."

A year after receiving their public rebuke from Dean, four of the Environmental Board members ­ including the chair ­ were up for reappointment. With the not-so-subtle clues from Dean that he didn't approve of the Board's political direction, the Republican majority in the state senate shot down each and every one of their appointments, thus dramatically changing both the structure and climate of the Board.

"After the post-C&S purge," says Kaplan, "the burden of proof for Act 250 permits switched from being on the applicants -- where it's supposed to be -- to being on the environmentalists. That's why 98% of the permit requests are approved and only 20% ever have hearings."

http://www.counterpunch.org/colby02222003.html

Another one of the Dean appointees was actually a re-appointment of a board member originally appointed by Republican Richard Snelling.She tood was among the members Dean purged for questioning his suggestion to use coal fired plants to Generate electicity. While she praises Dean Champion Land Deal , she states that Dean left the state of Vermont far behind environmentally in a number of areas:

QUESTION: How about the flip side, areas where he could have done better?

COURTNEY: Well I think the area where in retrospect where we could have seen better performance is in water quality and the compliance with the Clean Water Act. The State of Vermont is ten years delinquent in meeting the requirements of the Clean Water Act to have basin watershed plans in place.

QUESTION: Is that unusual as you look across the nation?

COURTNEY: I think we are not a leader. We have high expectations in Vermont to be environmental leaders and in this case we are not even remotely getting close to being a leader in terms of complying with the Clean Water Act.

QUESTION: And does this have to do with Lake Champlain and the storm water runoff?

COURTNEY: Yes. It's the nonpoint source pollutants that are the concern. As far as point source goes we are adequately providing for wastewater treatment plants and cleaning up point source. But that next sort of horizon of issues to tackle in the Clean Water Act haven't been. It can't be laid entirely at the feet of the governor. It's largely an issue that the legislature hasn't funded the agency adequately to do the job. So it's a combination of leadership on the one hand and the funding on the other and it's disappointing to see that Vermont is as far behind as it is.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean0702/courtint.html

Dean replaced the purged environmetalists with ski resort area executives.

A Sierra Club Member and Activist has summed up Dean's Environmmental Record in this manner:

Although he developed a fairly strong record on land conservation, in spite of failing to support some key land programs, he made himself a dismal record on other environmental issues. He strongly supported everything the utilities and ski areas ever asked him to
do. He supported mega-purchase from Hydro Quebec, refusing to even consider any alternative or the adverse impacts on our state’s economy. (Both he and the utilities spent the next decade complaining about the high prices and trying to get out of the contracts, as though they were someone else’s evil doings.) During a major battle over stormwater/sprawl legislation, he claimed that water from those polluted streams was clean
enough to drink. I wouldn’t want this guy as my doctor, thank you. He did offer nominal, initial support to a renewables bill two years ago, but when push came to shove he refused to lift a finger in support. He repeatedly had his secretaries and commissioners run
various collaborative policy-making groups, only to have the facts emerge later that the “fix was in” from the start with his road-building, air polluting, power producing campaign donors. His record is one of opposing just about everything the environmental
lobby supported. He was always there with the lip service as long as there was actually nothing on the table. He has developed a reputation for saying what his audience wants to hear, then doing whatever suits him later.

http://www.thomasleavitt.org/personal/blog/index.php?p=311&c=1

Deans own relations with Hydro Quebec cost the taxpayers hundreds of millions (which they will be passsing on to generations to come for decades)...

Dean raises money from energy sources
February 27, 2002

By David Gram

ASSOCIATED PRESS

MONTPELIER — When Gov. Howard Dean wanted to raise money for a possible presidential bid, he followed the example of a former governor of Texas and called on his friends in the energy industry...

— After years of pushing for the companies to absorb the excess costs of their expensive contract with Hydro-Quebec, Dean’s Department of Public Service agreed to let ratepayers be billed for more than 90 percent of what those excess costs are expected to be in the coming years. The extra costs will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

— The department also agreed to allow the utilities to sell Vermont Yankee to a Pennsylvania company for a price that was expected to be $23.8 million by the time the deal closed. Shortly before the Public Service Board was to make a final decision on that sale, another company stepped in and offered more than seven times as much. That sale to Entergy Nuclear Corp. is currently before the board.

— After it became clear in the late 1990s that selling Vermont Yankee was a top goal of the utilities, the administration failed to heed warnings for more than two years that the money the nuclear plant was paying for emergency planning was much less than was needed. An administration official said there was concern about interfering with the sale.

“The Dean administration knew explicitly (about the worries about emergency preparedness) and deliberately didn’t do anything about it in order to help CV and GMP sell the plant,” said James Dumont, a lawyer for the New England Coalition On Nuclear Pollution. “They didn’t bite the hand that fed them.”

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html

A list of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers includes Green Mountain Power Corp.’s chairman, two company board members and a vice president, all of whom made donations to the Fund For A Healthy America. It also includes two longtime utility lobbyists.

"Over the years, the governor has sided with the utilities on many of the most pressing issues, including the push for deregulation of the electric industry, and later backing away from that as a goal.

Among other major decisions:

— After years of pushing for the companies to absorb the excess costs of their expensive contract with Hydro-Quebec, Dean’s Department of Public Service agreed to let ratepayers be billed for more than 90 percent of what those excess costs are expected to be in the coming years. The extra costs will be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

— The department also agreed to allow the utilities to sell Vermont Yankee to a Pennsylvania company for a price that was expected to be $23.8 million by the time the deal closed. Shortly before the Public Service Board was to make a final decision on that sale, another company stepped in and offered more than seven times as much. That sale to Entergy Nuclear Corp. is currently before the board.

— After it became clear in the late 1990s that selling Vermont Yankee was a top goal of the utilities, the administration failed to heed warnings for more than two years that the money the nuclear plant was paying for emergency planning was much less than was needed. An administration official said there was concern about interfering with the sale."(98)

http://home.san.rr.com/crocuta/The_Dean_Dossier.htm



At virtually every turn, everytime the utilities and energy corporations wanted something done they turned to Howard Dean. They always got everything they wanted. Regardless of how much more it would cost the state and the taxpayers over time.

And always for corporations that were headed by Deans top campaign contributors.

Which is exactly how Enron gots its foot in the White House door, privately meeting with the executive department of the U.S. Government and advising it on its policies.

There is essentially no difference between what Dean did as Governor. allowing those who gave big to his campaign's as Governor and starting his presidentail fundraising benefited finacially from those contributions.

The fact that Dean does not own an oil business is irrelevant. He is doctor, and while he was a doctor, he took considerable sums from the pharmaceutical industry, in one case, vetoing legislation they wanted killed within days of his receiving a nice big check for his re-election campaign fund as Governor in the mid 90's. IN other cases actively blocking other legislation that the pharmeceutical and health care industries wanted killed.

Dean claims to not be engaging in politics as usual, but he is the candidate with the most obscured and least transparant relations with large corporate interests. Money changed hands. Dean did what they wanted. With more than the energy industry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. I'm sorry, but ....
How much did Kerry mortgage his home for again??? Easy to take low blows when your ship is sinking! How the heck did Dean get reelected time and time again while being such and insufferable bast**d???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. National Security is the most important of all of these for 2004
The entire 2004 election will be about National Security, and Dean does not shine on that front.

Dean would make a great president, some other time. In 2004, we need someone who people think is strong and brave and will protect them from whatever Bush is scaring them with.

Clark and Kerry are the best possibilities and Kerry has already annoyed me too much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
40. The media is going to sink to new lows in 2004
Until the left gets their own widely distributed and watched mainstream media, we are screwed.

The AP, Reuters, every network, and most newspapers are all going to be working overtime for Bush in 2004.

The presidency probably isn't where we should be putting out biggest effort, the media is. The entire future of the U.S. depends on getting some balance back in the media.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
koopie57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-29-03 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
50. Is this reporter saying
that they both did the same thing and Dean was wrong. Well, what about Cheney then? How do these people function? Don't they think before they write this stuff? Ahhh, I get it. Thought is no longer necessary. Just do as you are told.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Dec 26th 2024, 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC