Obama says some have 'hijacked' faith

[jefferson_dem]

Source: AP



Obama says some have 'hijacked' faith
By STEPHEN SINGER
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

HARTFORD, Conn. -- Sen. Barack Obama told a church convention Saturday that some right-wing evangelical leaders have exploited and politicized religious beliefs in an effort to sow division.

"Somehow, somewhere along the way, faith stopped being used to bring us together and faith started being used to drive us apart," the Democratic presidential candidate said in a 30-minute speech before the national meeting of the United Church of Christ.

"Faith got hijacked, partly because of the so-called leaders of the Christian Right, all too eager to exploit what divides us," the Illinois senator said.

"At every opportunity, they've told evangelical Christians that Democrats disrespect their values and dislike their church, while suggesting to the rest of the country that religious Americans care only about issues like abortion and gay marriage, school prayer and intelligent design," according to an advance copy of his speech.

"There was even a time when the Christian Coalition determined that its number one legislative priority was tax cuts for the rich," Obama said. "I don't know what Bible they're reading, but it doesn't jibe with my version."

<SNIP>

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/23/AR2007062300739.html

---

Here's more, from another source --

Obama address in spotlight at UCC
09:53 AM CDT on Saturday, June 23, 2007
From Wire Reports

More than 3,000 people attended the United Church of Christ's General Synod in 2005 and witnessed the mainline denomination's historic endorsement of same-sex marriage.

Attendance at this year's five-day Synod, which started Friday in Hartford, Conn., was expected to more than double, said UCC general minister and president John Thomas.

While many are heralding the UCC's 50th anniversary, Mr. Thomas readily admits the buzz this year surrounds the Synod's star-studded lineup, which includes Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., a UCC member and a top presidential candidate.

"The momentum took off and the energy is building," Mr. Thomas said.

Joshua DuBois, the Obama campaign's director of religious affairs, said the senator's Synod speech today will be his first major address on faith and politics as a presidential candidate.

<SNIP>

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/religion/stories/DN-relUCC_23met.ART.South.Edition1.43dd8cb.html

[Kagemusha]

1. Yes. If he's going to have credibility on faith, let him use it like this.

It's high time the bullies got stood up to.

[zanne]

43. This is one of the things I really like about him.

He can talk about religion without insulting anybody.

[AzDar]

2. And they can KEEP it ! (a girl can dream, can't she?)

[Patchuli]

3. No they can't keep it; it does not belong to them...

I'm a Christian but none of those Coalition freaks speaks for me. I don't push my faith on anyone but I wish people realized that there are good Christians that are as distressed by this "hijacking" as non-Christians are by the use of 'faith.'

[jefferson_dem]

4. Really. Why cede "faith" to the hate-filled freaks...

who bastardize it's meaning in order to divide and bludgeon others?

I'm glad our candidates are starting to speak to how personal faith is not anti-thetical to progressive public policy.

And this...coming from one who would not necessarily fall into the "believer" category.

[Drunken Irishman]

6. That statement makes me laugh because of who's in your avatar.

I love FDR too, but he was very religious man who used the words of God and Christianity during most of his presidency. As a Catholic, I don't want to ever feel that I'm not welcome in the Democratic Party, because frankly I feel the Republican Party is the furthest thing from Jesus' words as you can get.

If you're atheist or agnostic, I'm fine with that, but most Democrats are in fact Christians and religious (to some extent), so you shouldn't be so quick to toss them aside, or you'd essentially throw away the entire party.

[AzDar]

19. Certainly no one has said that you aren't welcome in the Party.

I believe religion, ALL religion, should be checked at the door.
BTW, there are plenty of faiths beside Christianity represented within the Party...you seem a bit hung up.

[Pastiche423]

30. "...most Democrats are in fact Christians and religious..."

Do you have a cite for that claim?

In the five 1/2 years I have been at DU, every poll I've seen shows the majority of DUers are NOT religious.

It's strange that 100K members are not representative of "most" Democrats.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ButterflyBlood]

38. See primary support on DU vs. the nationwide polls

DU obviously is not an accurate representation of the party as a whole. Furthermore there is nothing scientific about DU polls or any online poll. Trusting online polls is one of the biggest follies you can do.

Simple mathematics could prove this. When roughly 80% of the country is Christian, in order for non-Christians to make up a majority of Democrats, the Democrats would have to have less than 40% of the vote, and that's only if every single non-Christian voter is a Democrat, which also obviously isn't true. Duh.

But let's look at the exit poll of 2004: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

Kerry got:
40% of Protestants (54% of the population)
47% of Catholics (27% of the population)
74% of Jews (3% of the population)
74% of those classified under "Other" (7% of the population)
67% of those with no religion (10% of the population)

So by multiplying these figures we can see that:

21.6% of the population are Protestants that voted for Kerry
12.69% of the population are Catholics that voted for Kerry
2.22% of the population are Jews that voted for Kerry
5.18% of the population are people that fall under "Other" that voted for Kerry
6.17% of the population are people with no religion that voted for Kerry

That's 47.86% of the population total under Kerry voters, about close to to the actual results, and of that 47.86%, 34.29% are Christian, and 41.69% are religious. So out of Kerry voters, about 71.65% are Christian, and over 87% are religious. Both overwhelming majorities.

[Drunken Irishman]

41. Thanks for those. I provided exit polling data, but the poster ignored it.

So good luck on getting a reply, or even a reaction that accepts these numbers. I even posted a Gallup poll done this month that pretty much agrees with the exit polling (83% of Democrats say religion is very and fairly important http://www.galluppoll.com/content/Default.aspx?ci=27889&VERSION=p ).

[BigDDem]

48. Have much free time over the weekend?

[karlrschneider]

5. I don't trust him, or anybody else who thinks 'faith' is a rational approach to governance.

Fuck him and all the other 'faithful.'
(Yeah, I realize that mostly eliminates all the other Dem candidates. Tough shit for them.)

[Drunken Irishman]

7. What's your opinion of FDR, Lincoln and Kennedy?

Do you feel the need to say "fuck 'em," too?

[karlrschneider]

10. Actually I never felt the need until just now.

Thanks for the reminder.

[Drunken Irishman]

12. You're welcome, good to see where you stand.

You might be the only person, outside of the south, who hates Lincoln, Roosevelt and Kennedy. ;)

I'm just glad there aren't more people like you, or we probably would have not elected all three.

[karlrschneider]

17. I don't give a shit about obscure quotes from those 3 guys.

None of them ever made their supposed faith a political issue, let alone a campaign one. Well, JFK did defend his to a degree when he said he wouldn't let it interfere with governance...that comforted a lot of wingnuts and pissed off a lot of mackeral snappers but it worked to his benefit.

[Drunken Irishman]

18. How do you know they didn't?

Maybe that's why FDR was so inclined to support the poor, because he was a deeply religious man? What about the entire civil rights movement, which was essentially centered around faith? If you think religion begins and ends with abortion, gay marriage and stem cells, you're wrong. It goes beyond that and any true religious person would use their faith to support the issues of health care, poverty and social justice. Much like FDR, Kennedy (both John and Robert) and MLK did.

[karlrschneider]

21. I suspect he supported the poor because it is the sensible thing to do.

And more to the point, it is the RIGHT thing to do. No belief in imaginary deities is necessary for a person to know right from wrong...even "lower" animals understand the principle of the 'golden rule' which really should read "Don't fuck with others in a way you wouldn't want them fucking with you."

[Drunken Irishman]

22. Of course it isn't.

But if faith teaches us anything, until corrupted anyway, it's that we should help the poor. I'm just saying we can use the religious vote to our advantage by talking up other "moral" issues, like the environment, health care and poverty. This country -- rightfully or not -- is still a religious one and faith plays a large part in politics. I understand you're the type that would love to say "fuck 'em", but we can also use religion for the better. The Republicans have done a good job at making religion all about evolution, prayer in schools, abortion and gays, and I think the Democrats would be best served at turning the table. Talk faith, but use it to push OUR agenda, the real Christian agenda. You know, that one that asks you to help your fellow man.

Maybe I'm too idealistic, because I grew up in an Irish Catholic liberal household, but I know religion isn't all evil. My grandparents fought for their religion against the Protestants and they were very religious people. They were also staunchly Democratic and liberal up until their deaths. But they also understood religion was more than what Republicans used it as.

[karlrschneider]

26. Well, I'm just saying "faith" doesn't "teach" anybody anything

In MY opinion, religion IS evil. It accomplishes NOTHING positive for the human condition. When humans finally figure out they (we) have to deal with our own existence and imaginary deities are just that, imaginary, we just MIGHT secure a more extended future for the species. But of course that's only temporary in the ultimate eventuality when the universe either expands and goes cold or rebounds to a 'big crunch'. All those fancy tombstones will be past moribund.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. And that's your opinion...

Though I wouldn't go to extent as to say fuck you because of it.

[karlrschneider]

29. It will remain my opinion until someone produces evidence it isn't valid.

I'm not closed-minded, though. If you have any verifiable evidence of one or more deities, I'll be more than happy to take a look at it. (Actually, I would be VERY happy to be convinced...it would give some sense to our existence.)

[Drunken Irishman]

32. I'm not going to convince you because you know I can't produce absolute evidence.

It's faith, you either have it or you don't. It's all good though, because I'm never the type to enforce my beliefs on others.

[karlrschneider]

33. Fine, just don't attempt to have your beliefs incorporated into civil law.

As long as you don't do that, I don't give a rat's ass what you choose to believe. Deal?

[Drunken Irishman]

35. I'm not trying to and I don't think Obama is either.

I agree with you, it shouldn't be incorporated into civil law.

[knight_of_the_star]

40. They didn't wear their faith like a badge of honor

Or shoved it down people's throats by justifying their actions as the work of God.

[mitchum]

27. Actually, Lincoln was an atheist who playacted at piety for pragmatic reasons

[PassingFair]

45. "The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession."

A VERY interesting President!


http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/lincoln.htm

[mitchum]

46. Thank you for the link...

that is a wonderful resource

[PassingFair]

50. You're welcome!

Lincoln and Jefferson have always been
my favorites.

[AzDar]

8. I couldn't agree more. It has no place in politics, period.

Edited to add: ...Or science, or public education, or medical decisions...

[Drunken Irishman]

9. And yet you appear to be a supporter of FDR.

Do you not recall the D-Day Prayer?

My Fellow Americans:

Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our Allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far.

And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer:

Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity.

Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith.

They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph.

They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest -- until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war.

For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and goodwill among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home.

Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, Thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom.

And for us at home -- fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters, and brothers of brave men overseas, whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them -- help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice.

Many people have urged that I call the nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts.

Give us strength, too -- strength in our daily tasks, to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces.

And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be.

And, O Lord, give us faith. Give us faith in Thee; faith in our sons; faith in each other; faith in our united crusade. Let not the keeness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment -- let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose.

With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogances. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace -- a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all of men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil.

Thy will be done, Almighty God.

Amen.

http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/fdr-prayer.htm

[AzDar]

13. As I said in my previous post : a girl can dream, can't she?

Obviously, I have nothing but respect for those politicians you've mentioned, but I'd like them even MORE if they left their 'faith' out of their governance.
I also believe that these intelligent, educated men realized the value of paying 'lip service' to God, or more precisely, what would happen to their political careers if they failed to pander.

[Drunken Irishman]

16. It's hard to say...

I honestly don't think FDR or Kennedy were pandering when discussing God. They obviously were deeply spiritual and don't see why a candidate can't be open about that. Though today I do agree with you that it does seem to be getting out of hand and it appears they're only doing it for political gain. But we can't concede the religious vote and instead talk about the real moral issues, like health care, the economy, poverty and social justice. In my mind those are religious issues and any good Christian would be best served addressing them, instead of bitching and moaning about abortion or the "homosexual agenda".

[jefferson_dem]

25. Thanks. Beat me to this. One of the most historic statement ever by a president...

The audio is chilling.

[Hekate]

37. Thanks for that from FDR, and btw, welcome to DU!As to the OP...

As to the original post -- I am very glad that Senator Obama is speaking the truth about the hijacking (and perversion) of public discourse about faith, values, morality, and the rest. He is in very good company, as the Rev. Jim Wallis of Sojourners has been speaking and working on this very issue for years as well.

Because of the way the religious right wing has seized (or loudly claimed to seize) the moral high ground in politics and has made it the norm for candidates to speak about their religion publicly, Democratic candidates have finally had to make that part of their own political persona.

It makes a lot of us here feel uncomfortable because we are not sure how that will change the party we are members of. In the not too distant past religion was a private matter for most of the country -- Southerners were known to be effusive, but Easterners and Midwesterners pretty much kept their religious opinions to themselves except on Sundays. The elder Bush was from that school, and so for that matter was Hillary Clinton.

I know from Bill's first campaign for president that Hillary is in fact a religious person--one journalist wrote about her carrying a "well-thumbed Bible" on all her travels (she could occasionally be seen reading it on planes and busses), and that her youth minister had had a profound impact on her future activism for social justice. But she never talked extensively about her "faith" until quite recently. Her "faith" was to be evident in her deeds, not her words, and that used to be the norm.

You will note that while FDR called on God a number of times in that speech, he did not refer to Jesus Christ. That was because we used to have a kind of inclusive "civic religion" in America. Most Americans agreed there was a God, and that God was a He, but the details were left to the numerous sects to hammer out among themselves. In referring to God but not Jesus, a public speaker could skip over the Trinity, not to mention the Virgin Mary and the saints, and whether or not the audience included Jews, all without giving offence to anyone except possibly adamant atheists. Even the presence of members of other world religions could be accounted for by referencing only this generic God.

Regrettably, what the religious right did was re-define Christianity in this country, especially public Christianity. We've had many threads here over the years about the rise of a pernicious theocratic movement and how deeply GW Bush is beholden to them. (If you are interested sometime, google Dominionism and Christian Reconstructionism, then cross reference various members of this administration.)

The perniciousness is not because these people are Christians, but because their definition of Christianity is so narrow, angry, and hate-filled, AND worst of all has to all intents and purposes overturned a key Constitutional provision: namely, that "there shall be no religious test" for being elected, hired, or appointed to any public office.

In this, these "Christians" have excluded everyone else -- not just atheists, but liberal Christians, Jews, Unitarians, Buddhists, Pagans, Moslems, Hindus, Humanists — pretty much me and all my friends and relatives. And all the while they dominate the public square and claim they are Christians and that the only acceptable definition of morality is theirs. If sometimes DUers get reactive, that’s why.

I’ve been incredibly grateful that Rev. Jim Wallis, an evangelical, has been working hard at taking back his religion from the extremists. And while the "faith" forum the Democratic candidates agreed to made me sad that they had to do it at all, I understand why, and I thought they all did very well articulating their spiritual beliefs in terms the so-called values voters hopefully could understand. Now Barack Obama has taken it to the next, very important, step by fearlessly calling out the truth about the extremists who have hijacked public discourse about what it means to be a Christian.

If we frame our situation as the old Christian theological argument over whether faith or good works was more important for salvation, Democrats would have come down solidly on the side of good works. Thomas Jefferson and others of the founding fathers made it explicit that they were designing a body of laws that were concerned with people’s public behavior and not their private beliefs. Public behavior = works, and you don’t have to be a Christian to get behind that.

Hekate

[Drunken Irishman]

11. Ok, I see you edited it.

And I agree with you on those stances, since using one's faith to dictate policy in that realm infringes on the rights of others. I do not have a problem with a candidate talking about his or her faith however.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AzDar]

15. I refer you to Matthew 6:5. Sums it up nicely for me.

[KingFlorez]

31. He didn't say that faith was an approach to governance

He's just discussing faith in general, there is nothing wrong with that.

[karlrschneider]

36. He comes way too close to personalizing it. I don't like that.

I would absolutely vote for him were he to get the nomination (fat chance) but I'm just fucking sick and tired of hearing all this religious shit incorporated into the campaign.

[madrchsod]

20. he`s incorrect

it`s the fundamentalists in all the religions of abraham that have done these things.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

24. And it's been dividing people for centuries...

though it hasn't been such a vocal presence in US Government before. :(

[ozone_man]

23. What a crock.

"Somehow, somewhere along the way, faith stopped being used to bring us together and faith started being used to drive us apart,"

Faith has never brought anyone together except perhaps those of the same faith. All religions divide. Keep your faith to yourself Obama, it has no place in politics.

[Mark Twain Girl]

42. Yeah -- jeez, I just got done reading the same-sex civil rights thread, and now this

A crock indeed -- when someone's superstitions get in the way of civil rights issues like GLBT civil rights, how is that supposed to bring us together? When does religion bring people together, except those with the same religious beliefs in their little circles? For every ecumenical moment, there are a thousand religious clashes.

If someone's First Amendment is being violated, I am right there at his/her side, with my voice and my hands and my strength. But beyond that, I want religion out out ouuuuuuut of any aspect of public life. I don't want a kinder, gentler version of theocracy. I want separation of church and state, and everyone can go home and do their own private little ritual chants in their private lives. I'm at the end of my rope on this one.

[ozone_man]

44. By emphasizing faith, atheists and agnostics are left out.

And in the Democratic party, there are a lot more agnostics and atheists, than the country as a whole. Faith is a dividing force. I would be more lenient here, but I know that this faith and politics campaign (Sojourners headed by Jim Wallis) is a Democratic Party strategy to pull in the Evangelist vote by competing with Republicans on faith. I think Democrats should win on principles, which are all secular in nature. We have no shortage of real issues without stooping to play the religion card. That is a Republican tactic. Let's take the high ground and leave religion out of politics.

[JerseygirlCT]

39. He's right and I'm glad to hear him say this. nt

[Jaundice James]

47. So, when does Seperation of Church and State get to become a Democratic value?

-JJ

[Politicub]

49. "Faith" hasn't been hijacked

It's difficult to hold something like faith to the light of reason because at their core, faith and religion are based on perpetuating mass delusion.