Baby Jesus Found ok....but with a sun tan!!!!

[Copperred]

Thief returns icon of baby Jesus, says prank proves point

By DAVID YONKE
THE TOLEDO BLADE

A figure of baby Jesus stolen from a Maumee church is back in his manger, wearing a new coat - of paint, that is.

During his two-week absence, Jesus’ white skin was covered with dark brown paint, said the Rev. Roger Miller, pastor of St. Paul’s Evangelical Lutheran Church on East Wayne Street.

"Sorry I took your baby Jesus. It was a childish prank," the perpetrator said in a handwritten note. "As far as his new color, I thought I would point out that Jesus was not an Aryan but actually a man of color. Although you probably knew this but would rather not be reminded."

The thief added that the paint job was "not some sort of racial thing ... actually I’m white. But I know what color Jesus was."

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031230/NEWS10/112300066

[A HERETIC I AM]

1. too funny...

"It was nice the way it was," he said. "I don’t know, we’ll just pray about it and see."



Translation; "we'll wait a few weeks, quietly buy another white doll and hope this dies away. EVERYBODY knows Jesus was a white guy"!

The idea that this prankster was NOT SPOT ON strikes me as hilarious. Of course, the notion that "Jesus of Nazareth who is the Christ" is little more than a completely mythical figure is not mentioned.

(this is sure to get me a reprimand)

Hey Blue_Chill?...you out there? come on.....take the bait!

Happy Winter Solstice, folks

[Syrinx]

3. there is little doubt that Jesus was a real person

To question his divinity is one thing, but to question his existence is something else indeed.

[A HERETIC I AM]

4. Since you made the statement, I'll respond

Where is your proof?

What proof of the existence of Jesus The Christ is there that holds up to independent scientific scrutiny?

The fact is, there is none. All of the evidence for the life of Christ being historical is spurious WITHOUT EXCEPTION. This is not my claim. This is the claim of many, many biblical researchers and historians. Every time some evidence is proffered to secure Jesus place in the Levant at the supposed time of his advent it is always shown to be either false or simply made up. The "Evidence" offered is almost always sectarian in origin and defended from the same point of view. "Of course Jesus was a real person! How can you doubt that the creator god of all the known universe manifested himself in the way we are presenting it to you? How dare you question the authority of the church?"

Well, i CAN question and i do, and i am not alone. Thankfully, folks like me cant be burned at the stake anymore, just for asking or suggesting that we are being handed a line of bullshit.

Prove that Jesus existed.

And while you are at it, you will prove that Apollo, Horus, Mithra and several dozen other saviour god-men known from the last 3000 years will also have existed because they all have almost exact life stories.

Conclusion?

The "son of god" is not a unique manifestation to the middle east or the christian religion.

It is also purely allegorical.

If you cant recognize a play or a fable then you are not alone.

But you should at least try.

[myuu]

6. Hrm, interesting idea.

Never thought of bringing up Roman and Greek mythology and equating it to Christian mythology in a debate before. Nice counter to the common arguement that the bible was right by a bunch of different people, since previous mythology was too.

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. Welcome to DU!!

:hi: and thanks for the compliment.

The idea that all the other gods and all of their fantastic stories are myth and false but MY GOD and all HIS fantastic stories are real........ well...to me, that just sounds silly.

And it is silly.
Rational, progressive thinkers tend to recognize this.

[Syrinx]

7. your hostility towards religion is disturbing

And I'm not even religious.

[A HERETIC I AM]

9. You confuse hostility with skepticism.

and i USED to be religious.

I am not hostile to religion.

I am hostile to myth being presented as historical fact.

If you dont like that, TOUGH!

[Syrinx]

10. the Bible is made up of three parts

History, allegory, and propaganda.

I think Jesus probably lived, but I really can't prove it to you. Whether he was the "son of God," more than any of us are, I will leave that to others. I'm skeptical of it myself.

I think Mohammed and Confucius were real people too.

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. Then you are more rational than your previous post alluded.

but don't lose your skepticism. Religion always has something to sell. Always.

BTW, having an understanding of what it is to be essentially human does not require a religion to spell it out for you. All that is required is patience, tolerance and research.

[aquart]

14. Read any Robert Eisler? Truly, you should.

<http://jesus.com.au/library/documents/josephus.php>

And then there's this:

<http://www.shroud.com/comments.htm>

What Did Jesus Really Look Like?

Most everyone is familiar with the blond-haired, blue-eyed, fair-skinned Jesus that adorns millions of people's fireplaces and bedrooms, as well as thousands of churches. However the Jewish historian, Flavius Josephus, who lived circa 34 A.D., gives an historical account that looks quite different from that beautiful man on the wall:

"Both his nature and his form were human: for he was a man of simple appearance, mature age, short growth, three cubits tall , with scanty hair, but having a line in the middle of the head after the fashion of the Naziraeans, eyebrows meeting above the nose so that the spectators could take fright, with a long face, a long nose, and with an undeveloped beard, dark skin, and hunchbacked." (The Messiah Jesus and John the Baptist According to Flavius Josephus, Robert Eisler, Ph.D.; The Dial Press, New York; pp. 425-429)

Keep in mind that Jesus was a Jew, not a Caucasian, and his skin would have been burnt even darker by his constant exposure to the sun during his constant travels. He would have looked like a Bedouin to us. Also keep in mind that archaeological excavations have revealed that the average height of first-century Jewish males was five feet. (Roman males of the period averaged five feet four) At four and a half feet tall, Jesus was definitely undersized even for his time. By modern standards of height, he was a midget. It is important to remember that standards of hygiene were very different as well. First century Jews didn't bathe, except for ceremonial washings of their hands and feet. They didnt use deodorant or have toothbrushes and mouthwash. Jesus was dirty, stank, and had bad breath.

According to Josephus and the Bible, this is what Jesus really looked like: .

I've seen that sketch, pre-deletion, and it ain't pretty.


Here's a view as part of a stream of Jewish tradition:

<http://www.moshereiss.org/christianity/02_tradition/02_tradition.htm>

[A HERETIC I AM]

19. LOL... it may surprise you that Nazareth was not a town till well .

after his supposed death.

Look....we can throw links back and forth till he returns (yeah, right) but the fact remains, Josephus, Pliny the Younger and all the rest DIDNT KNOW A MAN NAMED JESUS and furthermore, NO SINGLE RESEARCHER WORTH HIS SALT will admit that Josephus's writing about jesus werent interpolated and therefore SPURIOUS.

You miss the larger point.
Christianity insists that their saviour was/is a real, live person that lived and died and then lived again and continues to live.
This is PATENTLY mythical. It has no basis in scientific reality or rational spiritualism.

The story of a saviour god man born of a virgin, on or near the winter solstice that dies and/or is "Risen" on or near the Spring Equinox is NOT UNIQUE TO CHRISTIANITY!!!!!!!!!!

Insisting a "god" was/is real in the 21st century smacks of 12th century mysticism, superstition and myth making and really should be taken with the grain of salt it deserves.

Admit that Apollo, Horus, Mithra, and a dozen others were real, live god men and i will concede your gods existence. Until then, you have no rational leg to stand on.

[aquart]

24. If you want to know if Jesus lived, look at Elvis.

We know the man's whole life, and yet, upon his death, a cult has arisen. He has been seen and seen again.

Who is St. Paul but a man who saw Elvis in the supermarket?

We may not know one accurate factual detail of Jesus' life, particularly his birth and childhood, but did such a man live and was such a man mourned? The odds are way better that he did than that he didn't.

[aquart]

17. Christianity is a tree with a lot of grafting.

It was carefully positioned to fit with required prophecy and tradition in the MidEast where it began, and then took on the color of whatever place it moved into. Got a popular local god? Presto! He's a saint with a very tragic story of his devotion to Jesus.

Throughout the known world of that time, and probably farther, there was a tradition of religious accommodation in which the god of the conquerors would seduce a daughter of the conquered, and a sun hero would be born acceptable for all to worship.

Zeus/Jupiter had a rap sheet as long as your arm:

Europa and the Bull
Leda and the Swan
Danae and the Golden Shower, etc., etc.

In fact, since Rome was the conquering power in the area when Jesus was conceived, I've always believed that Yahweh got a bum rap on that crime. (Yes, crime. Christianity's dirty little secret: The rape of Europa, the rape of Leda, the rape of Danae, the happy happy event of Mary? Assumed consent is not the same as consent.)

Ah, religion! What a great reason to get up in the morning and kill somebody.

[A HERETIC I AM]

22. LOL!!! Superb! Absolutely superbly stated!

Good post.
Thanks for the backup. :toast:

[Gore1FL]

2. I would have returned it tanned

but not because of any race issue -- i would have donned a tropical outfit on it and had a not with it that read:

"Sorry I left without notice, but I took advantage of a cheap Sothwest fare and caught some rays on my birthday.

Jesus

PS If anyone complains about the Atlantic ocean being wine, it wasn't me.

[myuu]

5. Haha, thats pretty good :)

~

[Venomous_Rhetoric]

11. Proof

""What proof of the existence of Jesus The Christ is there that holds up to independent scientific scrutiny?"

It's a matter of record, written by real men just a short 2000 years ago.

Like the other person said, you may question his divinity, but he was a real person who was sentenced to death.
The rabbi's wrote about him in their Talmud. The Talmud is an ongoing written record of those times as well as other things dealing with judaism by rabbi's that continues to this day.
I don't know verbatim of what it says, Those rabbi's from that time didn't believe he was the messiah obviously. They called him "that man" "the carpenters son" etc. In their writings. If there is a jewish person here, maybe they will know more than I. I'm sure there is a roman mention in some record somewhere as well. Monks, they keep records of history as well. Monks are real aren't they? they have been writting for centuries.

[A HERETIC I AM]

13. Please, you will have to do better than that.

simply claiming "A bunch of old guys said it was so" holds absolutely no water.

Try again.

[aquart]

20. The wine dark sea is a whole other issue.

see Velikovsky. <http://www.varchive.org/>

[buycitgo]

15. LOVE this thread!!!!!!!!

the BEST part of discussions like this is how OFFENDED all the wingnut anti-PI jackasses get when you gore their MOST sacred of all oxen: the christ divinity MYTH

quick: where is the bible found in the Dewey Decimal system?

speaking of fiction, why not discuss the idea of Mr. Jesus and Mrs. Mary Magdalene, their daughter Sara, and the founding of the Merovingian line in France? why is that any less believable walking on water? or is that just an "allegory?"


too funny.....where does the allegory stop and reality set in?

[buycitgo]

16. btw, Jesus is a hasbeen

the king is dead...long live the king!

[aquart]

21. You say "myth" as if that renders something unimportant. Hardly.

When something is of mythic proportions, it's HUGE.

So is myth in our lives.

[aquart]

18. Does the thief know semites are caucasians?

As are those dark people of India. "White" isn't a known race.

[Venomous_Rhetoric]

23. Goodness!

Who said I was religious? And because I look back on simple human history, I'm right wing too?

Someone is a little paranoid here....

[Venomous_Rhetoric]

25. No question

I have no doubt that mohammad was a real man. But he walked into a cave, and clamed he was told the koran over his life by an angel.
No one ever saw this though.
Did he shake like Harry on "third rock from the sun" every revelation?

Just a man is all, yet a billion people beleive it.

[aquart]

26. Sounds just like Joseph Smith, doesn't he?

But then maybe I'm the only one who likes to think of Joseph Smith as the reincarnation of Mohammed.

Most religions begin with a central truth and a central con. That's why it's so rude to kill people over it.

[Venomous_Rhetoric]

27. the end

I'll end this thread with this last contribution.

As far as I'm concerned, all religion should be banned. No more wars!
No stupid laws, people wanting 'religionous rights" and the other crap that goes along with it.

[Moderator]

28. LBN Rules... locking

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DU Moderator