Breaking: NYC to pay Diallo's family $3 million

[Pale Blue Dot]

Just heard on CNN. Will post a link when I see one.

[proud patriot]

1. In Paris' "song what would you do", he mentions Diallo

Can someone tell me what happened .

[CatWoman]

3. details below

[Pale Blue Dot]

8. You have your NYC police atrocities confused.

It IS hard to keep them straight.

[CatWoman]

10. Haha -- see below

I pretty much said the same thing.

[Red_Storm]

11. What happened?

Another person of color murdered by New York's Finest (NYPD)..........not exactly a rare occurence here in the concrete jungle.........

[CatWoman]

2. Good!!!

Although, I think his family deserves more!!!!!

Hoo boy -- Hannity and Rush will both faint!!

In unison!!

[Pale Blue Dot]

4. Link to NY Times article:

Registration may be required:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/06/nyregion/06CND-DIAL.html?hp

From the article:

The settlement closes a chapter on the case that led to a hotly contested state trial, a federal investigation and incendiary street protests that rocked the city for many months.

It was Feb. 4, 1999, when four police officers in plain clothes confronted Mr. Diallo, a 22-year-old immigrant from Guinea, and fired 41 shots, hitting him 19 times. The officers said they thought Mr. Diallo, who had been working as a street vendor, resembled a rape suspect and that he had appeared to be drawing a gun on them when they approached. The supposed gun turned out to be a wallet that he was apparently offering for identification.

"In the split second they had to react, the police mistakenly believed that Mr. Diallo had a gun and discharged their weapons, causing Mr. Diallo's death," Mr. Cardoza's statement said.

[arcane1]

12. 41 shots, 19 hits

means 22 misses

all in a 'split second'? 4 officers, means 10 shots each (plus 1 bonus shot). How long does that take?

[DarkPhenyx]

13. With semi-auto 9mm's?

not long at all. In fact, if they were firing that fast, I'm not at all surprised with the number of misses. They quite obviously took aim once and continued pulling the triggers.

[Catherine Vincent]

5. It should be more.

But wasn't he the one that was gunned down by several officers when he pulled his wallet?

[Pale Blue Dot]

6. Yes, and yes.

nt

[saigon68]

86. NO Diallo was posing as a Pinata at a police 9mm training excercise

Sarcasm off

[TeeYiYi]

74. I wonder what's going on in the world . . .

. . . that this sort of thing happens regularly by out of control police.

There was a little girl of about 13 who was gunned down for wielding a hairbrush in Utah a few years ago. I fuckin' hate cops anymore. They kill someone in Utah about every other day for the most inane of excuses. And in 99% of the cases, the victim was found to be innocent of carrying a gun. Most of the time it's a butter knife or a hairbrush or whatever the fuck. A cell phone. I wish I could believe that this will change anything but it won't.

TYY:grr:

[SmokeyBlues]

7. Louima is the person who was sodomized. -eom

[CatWoman]

9. Heh

got my victims confused -- they are so many :-(

[SmokeyBlues]

54. No problem.

Your intentions were honorable. B-)

[DarkPhenyx]

14. OK, so let me ask.

Why?

As in why are the cops in the wrong on this one? Just kinda curious why "we" feel this way on this one.

[Red_Storm]

15. Why ?

Because 3 "officers" fired 41 shots into an unarmed man, who was not committing a crime, unless you consider entering your home a crime.......

[DarkPhenyx]

16. An indivdual who...

...looked like a rape suspect reached into his coat and 3 officers fired in what they believed was self defense.

[Red_Storm]

17. here in NYC...........

thru the eyes of the NYPD any black guy looks like a rape suspect.....not a valid reason for doing what the execution squad did.......especially as they continued to unload their bullets as Diallo was down and out on the ground..........you can continue defending the executioners if you like........

[DarkPhenyx]

19. OK, I will. Thank you.

So, if he had pulled a gun and shot one or all three of teh officers, what would your opinion be? Yes, I know. Straw man...blah, blah, blah. However, considering that cops are shot in this country every year it isn't something that is completely out beyond the pale.

I am male, and can pass for white. Every time I even get stopped for speeeding I sit quietly in my car, with my hands on the steering wheel. If I get out of the car I move slowly and deliberately. Talking calmly the entire time.

Anytime you deal with the cops when you are a possible suspect for anything it isn't a "safe" event. Nor should it be.

<on edit>

I also wait for them to tell me to get my license and registration. If you reach before they are ready for you to then you run the risk of getting shot.

[Don Claybrook]

22. So you condone murder by the state

Can you remind me what Diallo's crime was again? Why did he need to be shot at 40-someodd times? Why is this justifiable?

Why is it again that butchering an innocent black man is OK?

[DarkPhenyx]

25. No, I don't.

ANd it isn't "ok" to butcher an innocent black man. Nice inflamitory rhetoric BTW. Most impressive.

Now...to answer your other, pointless and meaningless questions, as has already been established Diallo was innocent and had commited no crime taht we know of. He "needed", and you'll notice I didn't say deserved, to be shot repeatedly because when you pull a gun on an armed suspect you do not shoot once.

Now, the question you didn't ask. Is 40 excessive? Maybe. However they did miss with 22 of those rounds, so he was only shot 19 - 20 times. Per officer that works out to roughly seven rounds each. You shoot to wound fleeing suspects who pose a continuing threat to the general populace. You shoot to kill when they are pulling a weapon on you. The reason? If you are alone, and fuck up by not eliminating him as a threat, and he kills you, the suspect gets away and you still have the threat loose on the streets.

[Don Claybrook]

27. Wow. What do you do with someone who really commits a crime?

I think that in order to stay commensurate with the punishment meted out to the innocent black man who you contend needed to be shot lots of times, what would the proper amount of force be for a serious criminal? Take a jaywalker, for example. I'd think you might need to move up to rocket propelled grenades to stop their heinous activity. I don't even want to think about what should happen to people who don't put money in the parking meters.

In any case, you're never going to get me to budge an inch and condone murder and police brutality, as was committed in the Diallo case. It's a core part of what makes me a progressive, a liberal. I just don't and never will condone the execution of innocent people.

[DarkPhenyx]

33. ok, you are obviously hung up on one thing here.

that fact that Diallo was innocent. if the cops knew at the time he was innocent, that they had the wrong man, then shooting him at all would have been wrong. Is that a hard concept? God I hope not.

Now, as they didn't know he was unarmed, in fact suspected he was the man they were looking for, a "violent criminal" (unless you don't consider rape violent), and he may have been reaching for a gun the response was jsutified. It was also a mistake.

He wasn't murdered. It wasn't police brutality. You are sadly mistaken in this case. Prehaps you should think a bit more about it instead of jumping on the "evil racist cops" bandwagon.

[MadHound]

58. Perhaps you need to think about our jurisprudence system

You know, innocent until proven guilty.

Sorry, but this was a huge fuck up, and if you asked any cop not directly involved with this tragedy they would tell you the same(I've got cousins who are cops, and they're just as pissed as me about this). You have a situation with multiple cops, with guns drawn, covering one suspect. Most handguns take a relatively long time to clear clothing when you are pulling them out of jackets, pants etc. There was enough time to allow Diallo to pull out his hand and see what he had in it. C'mon, Diallo would have had to draw, cock, and aim a gun at a group of cops who had the drop on him. Most reputable police have regulations stating that you HAVE to see a weapon before you fire just to prevent these kind of situations.

And to the matter of forty one shots, nineteen hits. That's called an execution, not self defense. I could buy this whole "tragic mistake" story a hell of a lot better if Diallo had only been shot 2-3 times, but NINETEEN. Sorry, I don't buy it. Sounds like a bunch of racist cops hopped up on adrenaline, testosterone and stupidity saw a black man making a move and just went off. And if I remember correctly, wasn't the rape victim white? Hmmm, now that couldn't factor into the situation and the cops mindset now could it?

This all goes to point out the current mindset of police in general in this country. Back in the fifties, even up until the seventies when the old timers retired, police looked upon themselves as peace officers, public servants. Since that time the police mindset has changed radically. They now regard themselves as guards serving in an open air insanity asylum. Everybody is suspect, thus everybody is guilty.

[DarkPhenyx]

60. I never said it wasn't a fuck up, have I?

no, it wasn't an execution. that is simply you trying to elevate teh hysteria involved in this issue.

To me it sounds like a bunch of cop hating racists who want nothing more than to perpetuate the "poor black man" sterotype so they can continue to act like the entire world is against them. It's as equally valid an observation as yours.

57. this case was in court, Diallo was exonerated

New York City agreed to pay $3 million.
It's obvious they knew they f-ed up.
If you had been in NYC at the time and read all the coverage you wouldn't be taking this line. (maybe you would anyhow, I can't actually speak for you)
I'm sorry, but I think you are showing your lack of knowledge of the case.

on edit-- I'm recalling more of it. I believe that they came to the conclusion that the police had been trained improperly and thus as individuals were not precisely to blame, that is the reason so many shots went off because they were reacting improperly based on training and as to how they had been taught to react (as opposed to stopping to think for even a brief moment)

(I live in NYC, I paid quite close attention at the time, it's been awhile so I can't precisely recall the exact circumstances. Just the same, I do recall that the conclusion of a jury and of the police department was that it was uncalled for and that Diallo deserved compensation)

[DarkPhenyx]

62. Which goes to the point I made that...

...the cops weren't racist, this issue has little to nothing to do with racism (except on the side of some in the public trying to turn it into a race issue), and is just a tragic mistake.

<on edit>

"exonerated" is not the proper term here I don't think. as I do not believe tehre was ever any question of his being innocent, he had nothing to be exonerated of. Nor do the cops. Sometimes there is no fault. Most American can't handle that truth. They want to believe there are black and white answers, someone is always to blame, and they are always on teh side of justice and right. It isn't that way though. This belief system is one of the biggest problems in our society.

68. hmmmm

I'm not sure exonerated is the proper term either. What I meant was that a consensus developed that his actions should not have caused the response it did.

If your main point is that it was a tragic mistake, I won't argue.
I do think that a climate had been created in the NYPD at the time that precipitated it. On some level someone must be held accountable, even if it was a tragic mistake, and some compensation should be provided. After all, when an individual commits invountary manslaughter they must pay some sort of price. In a sense, at the very least, the city committed involuntary manslaughter. This, I suspect, is why a settlement was made. Whether the police involved did or not is a matter of opinion. I believe they were acquitted in the criminal case. (I almost forgot this).
This settlement was in the civil case.

[DarkPhenyx]

71. Which goes to another point.

It wouldn't be the first time a civil case was out of step with the criminal case, and quite often out of step with reality.

77. well in this case

it didn't go to trial. NYC settled before it went to trial. So I don't think the out of step argument applies.

[DarkPhenyx]

80. I believe it does.

The public, riled up by people with an agenda that dosen't coincide with the truth, gave the award. Had it gone to trial the cops would have been let off. Of course then we would have had riots.

[Don Claybrook]

18. That's bullshit

Looked like a rape suspect = black.

They had no call to use deadly force, nor by extension, to overkill with deadly force. They didn't see a gun. At best, they "thought" there might've been a gun. They killed an innocent man in cold blood and you ask what is wrong with this.

[DarkPhenyx]

21. You assume that is what they thought.

If you assume that they were thinking rape suspect = black then you are as guilty of the racism you accuse them of.

Had they waited till they were sure there was a gun one of them would probably be dead. Maybe more. Part of what they get paid to do is make those decisions. Yes, sometimes they get it wrong. How often do you make mistakes on the job?

[Pale Blue Dot]

24. You know what? Show me ONE instance

Just ONE, where anything like this has EVER happened to a white man. ONE, from anywhere in the country.

Assumptions, my ass.

[DarkPhenyx]

29. OK

http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/starticles/2001/feb/army020101.htmml

[Don Claybrook]

30. Not found on this server

Not Found
The requested URL /archive/starticles/2001/feb/army020101.html was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/1.3.29 Server at www.sierratimes.com Port 80

[DarkPhenyx]

38. Bummer. Hate when that happens.

Now I have to go find it again.

Or you can go find it yourself.

[atreides1]

79. Sierra Times!!

The Sierra Times is if nothing else an interesting site. First off it
claims to be "An Internet Publication for Real Americans", but looking at some of the Temporary Features with such titles as Land Rights News, Wolf News, and one section called "Whack'em & Stack'em".

Whack'em & Stack'em are stories about killings either attributed to the police or involving them in one way or another. It's a mixture of
left, right, and middle.

Some of the stories were actually of interest, I could not find the
particular story that DP was referring to, considering there were well
over a dozen of them in that section. A little more information could
help, like maybe the title of the report.

[DarkPhenyx]

81. Not a site I've ever been to before.

Did a search for "unarmed white male killed by police" and it was one of the hits. Don't remember the title.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

26. Not only do the majority of folks in this thread disagree with you,

a jury who heard ALL the facts disagree as well.

Maybe he looked really scary after the first ten 9mm rounds ripped into him.

[skypilot]

32. Or maybe he made...

...some gansta-style flourish while reaching for his wallet. He ought to be grateful that the cops deigned to miss shooting him as many times as they did.

[DarkPhenyx]

40. Useless post.

You also seem to be assuming that cops are evil and racist. All cops. There is absolutely no possible explaination other than the NYPD was looking to gun down a black man.

[skypilot]

47. I assume no such thing.

I simply find your posts despicable. I'm not impressed with the fact that the cops missed shooting him 22 times. I get the sense that you simply like taking unpopular positions and enjoying a "me against the world" stance. It's gotten to the point where I think you're getting off on being "right" (in your own mind, that is) rather than appreciating the fact that the Diallo family has received some justice.

[DarkPhenyx]

35. Wouldn't be the first time I was right...

...and stood alone, only to be vindicated later.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

39. Have you ever been wrong? Should I start getting my stock picks from you?

[DarkPhenyx]

42. Yes, I have been wrong. Thank God.

It just doesn't happen very often. Definately not often enough. I would much rather be wrong more often to tell you the truth. I can guarentee you won't hear many people saying that and meaning it.

As to stock picks? No...that wouldn't be prudent.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

52. LOL... Thanks for having a sense of humor in a debate.... n/t

[DarkPhenyx]

63. It helps to have a sense of humor in all things.

Particularly about ones self.

[prolesunited]

51. And just how would you be "vindicated" here?

I certainly don't want to live in a world where we find it acceptable that cops go around shooting scary-looking people.

Can I ask you what your beliefs on the death penalty are? Ooops, a few innocent people get executed by the state but it's just the price we have to pay?

[DarkPhenyx]

64. My views are pretty simple.

The death penatly is a great idea. There should be no life in prison w/o parole. No "merciful beheadings". Public and messy executions, such as Victorian style hangings would work much better.

However until the more glaring problems with how it is used are rectified then the current system will have to suffice.

[Pale Blue Dot]

20. Well God help you then

if you ever look like a rape suspect in New York. That's grounds for justifiable homicide.

[Red_Storm]

23. no need to be a rape suspect.........

being a person of color here in NYC is grounds for justifiable homicide, in the NYPD tradition........

[DarkPhenyx]

45. Rhetoric and hype. n/t

[Red_Storm]

59. nope.............

reality, fact of life, .......don't know where you are from, nor do I care but it's obvious you don't live in NYC, so it's easy for you to talk out of your ass.......

[DarkPhenyx]

65. No easier than it is for you.

particularly when you havn't lived anywhere else. That's ok though. Narrow and myopic views of reality are useful too. So long as you realize what it is.

[Red_Storm]

67. So you know where i've lived ? LOL !!!!!!!!!

I think i'll let your idiocy run out it's natural course.......

[DarkPhenyx]

73. *l* of course.

nicely civil BTW response. Fortunately I don't give a tinkers damn.

So, make a point or go home. I think that would be appropriate for you at this point.

[DarkPhenyx]

46. Fortunately...

...I know how to behave and move when confronted by cops.

[NickB79]

28. Yep, self-defense

That's why he had entry wounds in the bottom of his feet, right?

[Rex]

82. I have a hard time believing that 41 bullets were fired in

self defense.

Just my 2 cents.

[Catherine Vincent]

31. Oh good lord, where have you been?

[markses]

34. I grew up w/ one of the officers who killed Diallo

He was, not surprisingly, a good guy, though we definitely grew up in an extremly racist environment during a period of the city's history marked by heavy racial tension (early-80's to early-90's). It's a fucked up story all around, believe me.

I certainly don't agree with the bullshit posted above that these men couldn't exercise a little fire control - or the repugnant, sickening argument "What if it WAS a gun?" Both arguments lose sight of the very training and control that we expect of PEACE officers, as a condition of possibility for them to exercise any force at all. In other words, if you can't control yourself in such situations, you should not have a gun to shoot, nor be charged with the protection of the populace (rather than merely yourselves) in the first place. Of course, these fatuous (PBA) arguments always come from those who ask us to respect the risk police officers take in their day to day work. That is no doubt a valid point, but the risk is what is in question here: you should not have us expect police officers to reduce the risk at the expense of public safety (the right to live at all!), and still ask us to respect the risk. The risk we are to respect INVOLVES THE CONTROL AND JUDGMENT THESE OFFICERS DID NOT EXERCISE. So, it has to be one or the other: Either respect the risk, or sanction elimination of the risk at all costs (including the cost of people's lives). It cannot be both.

At the same time, we should admit that the problem is systemic, and not attributable to racism *as a personal possession* of these four cops. In this sense, the civil award is MUCH MORE appropriate than a guilty verdict in criminal court (which was luckily avoided here), but also shows us that we need to seriously fix the whole systematic racism that has been rampant in New York City. A tall order, to be sure, and not solved with either $3 million, nor jail time for the 4 officers - despite the calls for revenge from justifiably upset and endangered segments of New York's population. But neither is it solved with the absurd denials that racism - writ large - was involved in this incident. it was clearly racism, but it was not the racism of these four cops. Rather, it was the racism of the City and the Country and the Department *working through* these four men, who were - and this is the terrifying notion that neither side wishes to acknowledge - only its temporary and accidental agents. And anyone can be one of its temporary and accidental agents.

[Pale Blue Dot]

36. Great post, markses

Thanks for bringing a little rationality into an overheated debate.

[DarkPhenyx]

Nice op-ed piece.

Too much opinion and emotion involved though. Needs more logic and rational thought.

[Pale Blue Dot]

41. Are you just going to attack the writing on this one?

Or do you actually have a logical, rational response?

[DarkPhenyx]

43. As it didn't have anything new to add...

...adn didn't offer anything different in the way of what it offered then no. I'll stick to criticizing the writting.

[Pale Blue Dot]

44. lol

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

49. Let me this straight.

The guy was a rape suspect. Not a murder, armed robbery, shooting, etc. suspect. Right? They shoot him 41 times. What did they think he was gonna do, shoot 'em with his dick? What the hell is wrong w/ you? As everyone said after the first 20 it can be assumed he was no threat. What the f*&^% where the other 21 for. Either they are very sadistic or extremely incompetent. Take your pick in any case they were wrooooooooooong....

[markses]

50. Disagree

The point of noting that he was a rape suspect is simple: He has an interest in avoiding capture at virtually all costs, including violence against the officers. Thus the notion of a gun is believable prima facie. Second point, the trial showed that the entire volley happened in an extremely short timespan - the 41 shots were fired in seconds. It wasn't as if there were 20 shots, a pause for reflection, then 21 more.

One officer, if I remember correctly, yelled gun, then one officer approaching the stairs slipped, then the volley, all very quick in confusion and panic. Panic. In other words, not at all the type of restraint that these officers are most assuredly trained to exercise, but panic. That this panic was induced by systemic racism is my contention.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

53. That's all fine.

I wasn't being literal with the 20-21 thing. It still doesn't change the fact that they way overreacted whether racist or not. The point i was trying to make is that if there's a reason to believe that the guy is armed and dangerous that would merit caution. But to make the guy swiss cheese when they didn't even have a clue whether he was the guy they're after. I mean a shot in the leg, something. And it doesn't matter how fast it happened if he was on the floor after a few shots. Which I think it's reasonable to assume then why continue shooting?

[DarkPhenyx]

70. OK, let's try this.

Why did the US Army originally issue the .45 cal pistol? Ansewer: when you shoot someone who is on drugs they do not go down unless you hit them with something heavy. The .38 simply wasn't doing it.

What happens if you shoot someone, who is armed, in the leg? answer: You still get shot. Guarentee they are not going to be nice enough to shoot you in the leg too.

Ever been shot at? I have. There is a lot of stress in that kind of situation. No matter how much training you have you are going to do "dumb" things. Example: There was a time when cops, on the range, would collect the casings from the ground when they re-loaded. Then they found out that cops were stopping, in the middle of gun fights, and picking up their spent brass. In these cases stress was causing them to revert to training. Even if policing your brass in a gun fight was extremely stupid.

[DarkPhenyx]

66. It can't be assumed he wasn't a threat.

Not all rapists are nice friendly "wham bam thank you ma'am". Most are extremely violent. Many women who are raped don't live to ID their attacker. Some rapists are also drug users, robbers, muggers, etc.

Now, bearing in mind that rape is a violent crime, how can you justify stating taht a rapist isn't a threat?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

88. Yeah right..

"Now, bearing in mind that rape is a violent crime, how can you justify stating taht a rapist isn't a threat?". Threat to a whole bunch of cops armed to the teeth. First of all he wasn't a rapist and not all rapists are murderers or even carry guns and vice-versa.. Second let's assume that's what they thought. It is incomprehensible that they would unload on him like that. If they got some kind of report saying this guy shot so and so. That may have been different. Even that wouldn't jusatify the whole thing. Let's just skip the whole process and just take muthas out. Would that make you sleep better at night? No one said rapists weren't violent. But there is still due process. That whole shoot first and ask questions later is the law of the jungle. Your whole explanation about shooting on the leg or not still does not explain why they did not take the necessary precautions. How would they do this? They're supposed to be trained at it. If they are not get them the hell out of the street. Have I been shot at? As a matter of fact I have. I come from one of the most trigger happy countries I can think of. But that was a personal matter.
Even our damn cops don't screw up like that. Unless of course it's a hit. But that's another matter. Are we supposed to be a nation of laws or what? You still have not explained why in your infinite wisdom these morons were right. Let's even say it wasn't on purpose which it may not have been. It is still a major screw up. And what kind of crap is this:

"I am male, and can pass for white. Every time I even get stopped for speeding I sit quietly in my car, with my hands on the steering wheel. If I get out of the car I move slowly and deliberately. Talking calmly the entire time.

Anytime you deal with the cops when you are a possible suspect for anything it isn't a "safe" event. Nor should it be."

For all we know the guy acted the same way. It's easy to say how it's easy to act normally with a firing squad aiming at you. Well I would also shit myself normally. We don't live in a police state. At least not yet. If we're supposed to be calm the whole time so are these assholes. And don't give that about I don't know what it's like to be a cop shit. Guess what I don't. Because I didn't choose to be one. White cops don't know what it's like to be black or brown and feel like the enemy the whole time nor do I expect them to. I do expect that they do their jobs and not act like a bunch of coked up gangsters. You might say this happens to white guys. Maybe so. How many a year as compared to the rest of us "dark" people. Also knowing the corruption that runs rampant in NYC I wouldn't even be surprised that the whole rape thing was a cover story to justify their actions. I've fit the description many times myself. Guess what when I first moved to this town there were hardly any people that even fit my description. I was still a suspect and got harassed like many other people have. I just hope that nobody ever makes that mistake with someone you know. I somehow can't picture you justifying it. And if you do. My advice is get a damn heart or something. We're still supposed to act like humans cop or no cop.

[markses]

48. Whatever, dawg

State your case or go fish.

61. this is an excellent point you make

"Rather, it was the racism of the City and the Country and the Department *working through* these four men, who were - and this is the terrifying notion that neither side wishes to acknowledge - only its temporary and accidental agents. And anyone can be one of its temporary and accidental agents."

This is what I was trying to get at in my post(57). I had not read all the way through all posts when I posted & now that I see yours, I think you put it better than I did. thanks.

[shoopnyc123]

37. Sharpton's New Image

New Yorkers, (and others), have you noticed how a LOT of things have been falling in Sharpton's favor; it's been interesting, from Central Park Jogger, to his libel settlement, now this, (in which he played a HUGE part). While he's normally chastised as an "ambulance chaser", it's clear that he can play with the Big Boys too. Quite honestly, I'll take Shaprton over Condi and Colon, (sorry, COLIN), Powell any day...

[Red_Storm]

56. Anyone from NY knows all about the Rev.......

But I truly believe that he has changed and grown and his message today is a positive one and he is out there, on the streets, on the road doing good things (speaking out against the war, voter registration work, etc...)...and without a doubt i'll take Reverend Al over Condi or Powell......

[DrWeird]

55. Let us not forget.

They were wearing plain clothes and according to eye witnesses they failed to identify themselves as police officers.

Poor guy had a bunch of guys in plain clothes pulling guns on him and yelling at him. Probably pulled out his wallet because he thought he was being mugged.

[TeeYiYi]

76. Maybe he was reaching for identification. ....n/t

TYY

[TeeYiYi]

69. Oh Thank God! . . .

Hard to believe there was actually justice finally served in this case. It's been out of the media for so long I just assumed it had gone the way of other police brutality and murder incidents.

What a huge thing. I am so relieved. I hope this sets a precedent.

TYY

[Red_Storm]

72. Justice was not served..................

While one family has to live forever with the grief over the barbaric execution of their son, the criminals that perpetrated it are alive and well with their families......( one of the cops involved transfered to the FDNY and the other two cops involved transfered to a different police department, in Westchester and Jersey)

[DarkPhenyx]

75. Except it wasn't a barbaric execution.

Again, people trying to use hyperbol and extremist language to boost thier flagging argument. Sounds a lot like the Bush admin getting us into Iraq.

[Catherine Vincent]

83. It was barbaric to the deceased and to his family.

I wouldn't want to imagine being shot that many times knowing that you did nothing wrong. If those cops have a conscious, they got to wonder day and nite what that poor guy was thinking before his heart stopped pumping.

[RazorNY22]

84. Razor..NYPD here

The death of Mr. Diallo is a wrongful death, no doubt. However his death was not the result of a criminal act. The approach of Mr Diallo was lawful. He pulled an object from his back that the cops thought was a gun and they defended themselves.

As for the number of shots fired, the officers continued to fire because the rounds they were firing were ricocheting off the stoop and popping out the windows of the vehicles parked behind them at the curb. This reinforced the idea that Mr. Diallo was firing at them.

This award is low in my opinion, but the acquitals of these officers was just.

razor

[markses]

85. Hey NYPD

Got a few friends on the job. Thanks for your hard work. I also went to elementary school and junior high school with one of the officers involved in the Diallo shooting; I'll say again, a good guy. I remember him as tough (a great athlete and - when we got older - good fighter), but fair.

The question - for me and many other New Yorkers - has always been "Why did they think it was a gun?" And that is where the racism angle comes in. I have two major thoughts on this.

1) We rightly value police officers for putting their lives on the line for public safety. However, what this means is that they confirm a threat before acting. Otherwise, they are as grave a threat to public safety as those they seek to defend us against. Even if it's that extra fraction of a second that says "Yes, gun. Act." Is this more dangerous? Yes. But is that very danger the risk that we are meant to respect? I think so. It is that extra fraction of a second to confirm the threat that constitutes "putting one's life on the line." Without it, there is no distinction between a police officer and an untrained vigilante squad. The public safety is non-negotiable when police officers are assessing a risk. it is the sine qua non of that assessment. That is the very function of policing. In other words, a police officer cannot trade away public safety for personal safety; they cannot shoot first to quell any risk.

2) In this case, there was an assumption rather than a confirmation. So again, what prompted the assumption that acted as a confirmation FOR THESE OFFICERS? The first INCORRECT answer to this is the most common: Those cops were racist. That's why thay saw a gun rather than a wallet. The second INCORRECT answer is also common: Race wasn't involved, just the threat on which they were trained to act. Both these answers miss the force of systemic racism, the first by assuming that racism is the possession of individuals rather than a cultural force that works through individuals, the second by assuming that race can be, well, erased from a environ and system and situation as fraught with racial history and force as policing in New York City.

I must say I was rooting for the change of venue, rooting for an acquittal and I did watch much of the trial on Court TV. I was rooting for an acquittal because the responsibility lies in the systemic force of racism in New York City and in the NYPD, and not with individual officers who are taken up by that force, and whose actions, contrary to good training, are often determined by that force. The force is distributed; it is not the possession of a few "bad" officers, nor is it always present in any officer, but it can shape reactions at any given time, even for African American and Latino (and Asian) officers.

Thanks again for the incredible work you do. I should admit to having been handcuffed to a desk at the 109 (Flushing) more than once, and even to having spent a weekend in Queens Central Booking (teenage shenanigans). You guys are the best. Keep working on the improvement of the Department!

[RazorNY22]

87. Thanks for the kind words Markses...

To answer your question as to why they thought it was a gun has nothing to do with racism. I think it was just a matter of how Mr. Diallo brought the wallet from behind him that made the cops think it was a gun. It happened in a split second and they thought it was a gun. Period.

Racism is not institutionalized in the NYPD. Every group of people, both sexes, all races are represented at every level of the department. You would be hard pressed to find any organization that is more diverse than the NYPD.

All I know is the cops did not set out that night to murder someone. As a cop with 21 years experience I know that cops in this city are faced with extremely dangerous situations on a daily basis. We do this job for very little money. I'm kind of used to hearing many of the comments I've read on this thread made by people who have never once stuck their neck out to help anyone, have no clue what police work is about, but still feel qualified to comment on how cops should react under extemely intense conditions. I equate it to being a "chicken hawk". Don't advocate war if your not willing to enlist. Don't talk shit about cops if your not willing to put on the uniform and walk a beat.

I'm not saying cop involved shootings shouldn't be investigated. They should be and the Diallo shooting was investigated thoroughly and they were aquitted by a mixed race jury on all counts.

I'm signing off for the night, good night, and may Mr. Diallo rest in peace.

Razor

[TeeYiYi]

78. You're right . . .

. . . I didn't know what had happened to the cops. I just assumed or hoped that they had lost their jobs at the very least and preferably were serving time and flashing bling ala: soap on a rope.

Still, there is a partial victory in there somewhere . . .

TYY