Texas GOP discusses tax relief for property owners

[Judi Lynn]

Web-posted Friday, January 9, 2004
Texas GOP discusses tax relief for property owners


AUSTIN - Before a meeting at Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst's ranch, Gov. Rick Perry said Thursday he and Republican legislative leaders have reached broad agreements about how to change the Texas school finance system.

Chief among them is that there should be school tax relief for property owners and the money must be replaced by another means, Perry said. The amount of property tax reduction hasn't been agreed upon, nor has the alternate funding source, he said.

It's all part of discussions Perry, Dewhurst, House Speaker Tom Craddick and others are having about how the state will replace the so-called Robin Hood school finance system, a share-the-wealth plan that relies heavily on property taxation. Property rich districts must give money to less wealthy districts.
(snip/...)

http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/010904/tex_txgoptax.shtml

[leftyandproud]

1. *GASP*

not

[Occulus]

2. aah, the first step

toward property owners being the only ones who can become elected, or worse yet, the only ones who can vote.

A tax incentive if you own something? Fine. I own my actions, which are inherently priceless; therefore, I should pay no taxes of any kind.

I think that's fair, given this proposal.

[leftyandproud]

3. incentive vs reduction..

hate to play devil's advocate...but there is a difference

[Occulus]

4. No one should receive tax incentives

simply by virtue of their status as a "property owner".

While we're on the subject, what 'property'? I have property. I may not own the location where I live, but I have property. I have over $15,000 in property right here at dwellingplace in my apartment.

I can't call it my 'home'; I don't own it. It's a dwellingplace. I can't even plaint the walls how I want.

FSCK YOU if you think I'm whining. I'm getting really, really sick of how sacred property is becoming. Whatever happened to fscking humanity???

[leftyandproud]

5. *sigh*

I'm afraid property is pretty important.

The only class of people not allowed to aquire and dispose of their own property were called SLAVES.

P.S. I rent too by the way.

[alarimer]

22. you pay propery tax

It is just figured into rent. How much are you willing to bet that if property taxes do indeed go down, that decrease will be passed along to renters in the form of lowered rent?? Not too likely I would think.

[demdave]

26. As a rental property owner I can assure you no decrease gets passed along

After repairs, taxes, utilities and upkeep, you make very little money on a small rental property. All you can really hope for is equity, so it really is just a fancy bank account.

[hadrons]

6. "....GOP discusses tax relief for property owners" ...

you mean tax relief from all of Dumbya's tax cuts for the rich that caused taxes to be shifted to property owners

[lostnfound]

7. Personally, I pay about 15% of my income in Texas property taxes..

so it's hard for me to see straight on this one..?

ARgggh, despite personal interests, I guess I'll conclude: if it's Republican, it must be bad.

[Robb]

8. I go through the same thing

I just can't let it be about me, and my taxes. I'll take the moral high ground and the tax hit.

...We tried shit like this in Colorado, and it is about to bankrupt us. So even if they push it through, at some point the schools will collapse in disrepair, people will revolt, and the GOP will be the first against the wall.

[ret5hd]

9. i live in tx also...

and own property.and pay the high sales tax. and etc...

maybe it is time we:
1)eliminate property tax incentives for corporations (extortion)
2)enact a progressive state income tax
3)enact a progressive residential property tax
4)properly fund all schools

hahahahaha...yeah, i know, i kill me too. it'll never happen.

[sonias]

11. ret5hd these are all excellent ideas

And I support them all. I'm in the same boat as you are, a Texas property tax payer that believes in public education. Unfortunately the guys who have stolen the state legislature (think about the illegal corporate money that won repukes the house and senate races) don't really care about public education. Hell they have even so much as publicly stated it, saying it's a communist idea that education and health care are basic human rights. Their beliefs are that only the rich should be educated, and privately at that (with full tax deduction capability of course). Shrink the government to the point of collapse. Only roads, police and firefighting are essential to them. We got ours you can go to hell.

We had a good opportunity to close that state deficit by penalizing polluting corporations that foul our air, and "bidness" controlled repukes wouldn't touch that one bit. I doubt they have the cojones to do the right thing here. We'll get another bait and switch sham piece of legislation that they sell to the public like the drug benefit for seniors the drug industry won from Congress. Prepare to see corporate sponsored (fully deductible) schools targeted to specific industries. They won't be any better than trade schools that feed the corporate machines. And I'm not knocking trade schools. What I mean is that Dell will subsidize education of their work force, but only if they learn the rote skills they need and nothing more. Art and music education are already being cut right here in Austin schools.

Sonia

[NashVegas]

12. 15% ? That IS Kinda Nuts

I thought we buy homes so that we can eventually get out of forking over 25-30% of our income for rent. 15% is still pretty close, kinda negates the investment.

[Mackay]

24. No IT'S NOT

25-30 percent of income... HA, HA, HA... I pay 50 percent of my income in rent... and I don't know anyone who doesn't pay about 40-60 percent towards their rent. The only people paying 25-30 these days are couples who are each paying that. I'd give my left nut to pay 15 percent. Basically us renters are paying the 15 percent along with all the rest... but it is good to know that some people on this board know taxes are a necessary evil. I sure as hell don't want to pay them either... but look at the alternative.

[GOPisEvil]

10. LOL!!!! I love it...

Let's reduce property taxes, but we have NO CLUE on how to replace the revenue! Let's see, didn't a property tax "reduction" when Shrub was governor pass? Boy, we sure got an economic boost after that, didn't we?

Quit dancing around the issue and discuss an income tax. I'm not saying implement one - but at least lets have the discussion.

Property tax relief without an alternate source of revenue. These idiots crack me up...

[el_gato]

14. but when that supposed prop tax that bush passed as gov.

was enacted my property taxes went up!

So that cut must have only gone to people who own large ranches or something. I have not had the time to look into it but that first round of prop. tax relief never benefitted me. WTF?

[GOPisEvil]

15. Heck, the city problably raised the value of your house to compensate.

They've got you either way...

[alarimer]

21. no problem

Just raise the sales tax. NOT!!!!! I think that might be one of their ideas though; I read something to that effect a few months ago. Since sales taxes are regressive, let's just tax the poor at higher rates than the rich since most of them don't own property anyway. Our sales taxes here are almost 9 percent- part of that goes to the state but the city keeps tacking on one half-cent increase after another to pay for "improvements" (i.e. boondoggles) like digging a channel from the Gulf into the Laguna Madre that is almost certainly going to fill in again as soon as they are done.

[velocity]

13. This is only about Rich People's Taxes

"Robin Hood school finance system, a share-the-wealth plan that relies heavily on property taxation. Property rich districts must give money to less wealthy districts."

Rich People should not have to fund middle-class and poor area's schools. So Repug.

[SharonAnn]

28. Yes, the rich they don't want to help the poor school districts

That's the real issue here. So wealthy neighborhoods can get their taxes reduced (after all, the money is going to those "brown" kids) and they will get around the Texas Supreme Court's ruling that property taxes have to be equally applied across the state.

[NoPasaran]

31. "Robin Hood": what it means in Texas

First, understand that most of the funding for the school districts in Texas comes from property taxes. Also, understand that our school districts are independent taxing entities unto themselves; that is to say they do not necessarily follow city limits or county lines the they do in some states.

It's just a fact of life that the property contained in some districts is a lot more valuable than the property in others. As a result, rich districts have been able to throw a lot more money at their schools than the poor ones.

Under "Robin Hood" the rich districts have to send a certain amount of the tax monies they collect to the poor districts to deal with the inequity in property values. Now this is all well and good and it works as long as the rich districts actually have surplus bags of cash available to send to the poor districts.

What's happened though is that (thanks Booosh!) the economy in Texas is in the crapper. Rich districts (and I live in a property-rich district, the Austin ISD but be not deluded, I'm NOT rich) are taxing pretty much at their maximum permitted rate trying to keep their own schools operating while also under state law having to remit their "surpluses" to the property-poor districts. So now even the richer districts are having to cut out special programs, increase class sizes and all that sort of stuff. An ebbing tide grounds all the boats.

If it matters, I'm single and child-free. I do own a house so I know exactly what I pay in property taxes.

[lovedems]

16. I am sorry but as a homeowner, I would pay an assload of taxes

if my children were getting a kick ass education in a public school. I live in Springfield, Illinois and our esteemed mayor is getting ready to lay off ALOT of firemen and policemen in order to create a "homeland security" guy at over 80 grand/year and a personal secretary for 26K. I think it is BS. If our tax dollars are handled correctly (ie services and programs and not used as breaks for the wealthy), I don't bitch about paying them.

[Tracer]

17. Well, lovedems ...

... I already pay an assload of taxes ($6000) which works out to 25% of my income.

Is this what you're talking about? That you are willing to pay 25% of your income too?

The problem with property taxes as a base for funding schools is that it is completely regressive. How foolish to base what you pay in property taxes based on the assessed value of your home, rather than your income.

There will come a time in the not too distant future when I'll no longer be able to afford this ever-rising tax. Then what?

[lovedems]

19. I am making the assumption that your property taxes have increased

to 25% since you bought your home? When we purchased our home, we were well aware of our property tax bill and knew that we could afford it before we bought our home. We live in central Illinois and pay 2,500 per year, which is considered alot here. When my husband was working, it was affordable. I am sorry that you pay so much in taxes but I am of the belief that if handled correctly, taxes can be put to good use. You must be one of the millions who are footing the bill for the wealthy to have tax breaks and I think that sucks but I still believe that I would pay more in taxes if it meant my kids would get a good education and our streets were safer.

[Tracer]

20. Yes, LoveDems.

I bought an affordable home with affordable taxes.

However, my affordable home got hijacked by my town becoming Mansionized, driving up the assessments.

The problem here is that the property tax, even on the most expensive homes DOES NOT COVER THE COSTS of schooling the children.

In other words, the town spends roughly $8,000 per student. A family with 3 kids moves into a large new home and pays $12,000 per year in taxes. 3 kids x $8,000 = $24,000.

Right there, the town is $12,000 in the hole.

[priller]

18. When I owned a house in TX

I paid a butt-load in property taxes, too, especially with real estate prices going up up up in Austin.

The whole problem is the state gets its finances twisted in a knot because they have no income tax and the cities give tax breaks to corporations as fast as they can. The whole tax system in TX needs to be redone, but I certainly don't trust Guv Goodhair to do it.

[sal]

23. Does this violate the Texas Open Meetings Act?

The heads of executive and legislative branches of government meeting privately to make policy and future legislation without notice or a transcript? Sounds like mafia to me. These guys are planning a heist. Look for the change in "equal education" to "adequate education."

Also, is ranch status required for all Texas crime bosses?

[Ilsa]

25. Last time property taxes were touched, IIRC,

shrub gave away the coffers to the corporations, devastated the budget surplus, and my property taxes only went down $60 a year.

I'd gladly pay more in taxes if it meant the schools had better student-teacher ratios, etc. The problem is that Gov. Goodhair can't be trusted. He'll talk the lege into justifying a regressive tax on the poor. You know, you have to punish them for being poor, so they have an incentive not to be poor any more.

[Bandit]

27. Don't know about Texas but in my state Property taxes are municiple

The state has no control of property taxes at all. Each municipality is taxed at a different rate by millage rate. In my city it is 12 mils. We have no State sales tax either.

[beauregardez]

29. i live in a "rich" district

but i'm not rich, it's gotten to the point where Robin Hood is affecting middle class school districts. Our district gave up over 60% of it's taxable income. I think burden sharing is fine but when you're giving away almost 2/3rds of what's collected, that's a lot of dough. Especially when it's there's a strong possibility, that it is being mismanaged or misapplied.

[bluestateguy]

30. If they raise the sales taxes to fund property tax cuts I'm outta here!

If they raise the already high, already regressive sales tax to fund property tax cuts for suburbanite soccer moms and office park dads I will have had enough and I WILL LEAVE TEXAS! Such a scheme will screw renters who will have to pay higher sales taxes, but will receive no offsetting property tax cuts. I will not fund tax cuts for upper-middle class and country club Texans!

[MrTriumph]

32. Allow me to explain

What state leaders are discussing is the portion of property tax paid to support schools. They are not discussing the portion of the property taxes paid toward local hospital, water or college districts, or county and city taxes.

They are only discussing the portion of the property tax paid to the local school district. Under Robin Hood, in rich districts a portion of those taxes are sent to support poor districts. And poor districts get support from the rich ones.

Here is an opinion: This will run counter to most of the opinions you have read on this thread, but there are big problems with Robin Hood.

In the big picture, it is taxation without representation. Because school districts are locally administered, someone in a rich district pays local school taxes to support systems they have no representation in.

And because local property tax rates are capped by the state legislature, many rich districts have maxed out the rate. Future money needs will have to be met by increases in the state government's portion of overall school funding. In my opinion, this is the rub that has brought this to a head.

One other note: The state constitution states all Texas school kids are entitled to an adequate education, not an equal one. We will see this distinction mentioned in the coming debate.

[mbperrin]

33. Actually, the constitution calls for an "efficient" system of free public

schools.

If anyone can show the efficiency of having pisspoor schools because God thought not to put crude oil under the ground of these particular children, I'm all ears.

[flaminbats]

34. Eliminate special ed, kindergarten,&state dollars used for smaller classes

All in the name of compassionate conservatism, electability first, and pragmatism..all fine qualities of course. :eyes:

Finally..something that Texas re pukes and most Democrats for President can have fun doing together! :spank:

Never mind the complexities, screw those unelectable whiny Texas liberals, time for us to find just another unimportant scapegoat to use in once again slashing basic government services.

[goforit]

35. Hello?...........Has any of these GOPrs heard that unemployment is

the worst dilema out there???

Oh.........."Alice in Wonderland" is their most favored policy.