Bush Slams Democratic Hopefuls on Taxes

[Insurance_Analyst]

This is why I think it is going to be incredibly hard for Dean, or Gephardt to succeed in a general election.

In order for Dean or Gep to convince Americans that a rollback coupled with health insurance for all is better for us, an explanation of a complex issue framed in a way that is understandable to average Americans is necessary. I just don't think its possible. American's understanding of issues is limited. They only understand one thing: a tax cut means more money in my pocket!!!

And I hope any disagreement to my above analysis is not centered around the idea that local and state taxes have increased. Even if those taxes have increased, many voters would prefer to pay additional taxes to a local taxing authority than the federal gov't. Secondly, Bush and Company would counter that Democratic argument with the idea that add'l money in people's pockets, via the tax cuts of 2001 and 2003, would be spent, which in turn increases sales taxes, which in turn offsets the state's need to raise taxes.

I like Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt. I just believe they are better suited for Sec. of HHS and VP!

[Insurance_Analyst]

1. Here is the link...sorry. Also, sorry if this is dupe!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040110/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_economy&cid=544&ncid=716

[DUreader]

18. It is a dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=307926

Also instead of replying you can click the edit link to add text, links

and/or delete in the cases of a dupe

[Yupster]

2. Most people, especially if

you have a mortgage know that local and state taxes always go up.

They went up while Bush is president. They went up before Bush was president. They went up to build the dopey stadium. They went up to keep mass transit solvent. They went up to build the new high school. They went up for no reason at all.

I think it will be hard to get people to see a link when they've seen their mortgage payment go up every year for the last 20 years, long before Bush came around.

[54anickel]

3. You cannot have a meaningful debate on policy in press releases.

Whoever the dem nominee ends up being could get the average American's to understand what this admins policy has done to the economy in a real debate. Individual articles in the press become pretty meaningless, and yes Shrub's message, standing on it's own, does play well.

Lot's of average Americans do read letters to the editor. I think that folks at DU could do much to help educate the general population by hitting the papers with letters explaining the economic situation in the simplest terms without naming a candidate or party.

People are hurting and they do not understand why. It is human nature to want to believe in "something" to ease the pain. All they get from Shrub is this type of crap.

In his weekly radio address, Bush cites a litany of improving economic figures — rising home ownership, business investment, manufacturing and stock-market wealth. Bush gave credit to the three tax cuts he approved. "Tax relief has got this economy going again, and tax relief will keep it moving forward," Bush said.

Pretty easy to tear apart if you speak to people in terms they can understand and hit on their favorite subject, "ME". That is what the US has become, an "it's all about me" nation. That is where the discussion must start. From there, it is baby steps to getting them to an understanding that we are part of a bigger society and what is good for society is good for "ME" is well. Hopefully, we can work on that in the future once Shrub is out of office.

JMHO

[Insurance_Analyst]

5. I think you solidify my argument actually...

If Americans are part of the "Me culture" then how can any candidate convince a person that taking away $1800 per year from them would be beneficial to their lifestyle?

Some of the tax cuts are very popular. For example, the expanded child tax credit, the 10% bracket, and repeal of the marriage penalty. Even Dean realizes this. That is why we're hearing rumblings about how he has plans to reduce taxes on middle class Americans. His current approach of repealing the entire tax cut and providing health insurance is too complex for the average voter to understand IMHO. Most voters do not believe that Dean would ever be able to deliver on his promise of health insurance for all anyway. Remember, the educated swing voter realizes that congress is controlled by republicans. The less-educated swing voter probably doesn't believe that this program can be delivered anyway. There is a lack of faith and trust of the gov't. by this group of people.

[54anickel]

10. The dems aren't if office yet. The can openly discuss the idea of

repealing the tax-cut all they want. They aren't setting policy yet. They have started an open debate that the idea of the tax-cuts, in general was a bad idea. Most Americans are catching on to the idea that Shrubs cuts benefited the wealthy more than them. The dems are batting the idea around.

This actually may be a great "stealth" strategy. Get folks on board a little at a time that the tax-cut was bad. Now, changing your mind and saying you want to keep the cuts for middle class but somehow do away with the rest gets folks thinking. Hey, he's not against "ME", but the big guy.

Meantime, Shrub is pushing like hell to make the cuts permanent. It's in this article you posted, that's good - hope Shrub keeps pushing - it can be used against him later as America begins to grasp the idea that Shrubs cuts simply tossed them a bone, while the rich got caviar and champaign.

[Insurance_Analyst]

14. But...

Some of the Dem candidates already have the idea of keeping the middle class tax cuts and repealing those making more than $200K, $1 million, whichever the case may be.

Why bother with this "stealth plan". I thought Howard Dean was straightforward with the people? It sounds like Dean is trying to talk his way out of a very unpopular position of raising taxes on EVERYBODY!

[intheozone]

4. I don't think you are giving "average Americans"

enough credit. How can you say average Americans only understand one thing. That is highly insulting. :spank:
I consider myself very average and I understand a hell of a lot more than a tax cut means more money in my pocket. In fact, the chimp's tax cuts has done little to increase the money in my pocket. Furthermore, any increase in money in my pocket would not be worth the damage being done to this country's economic well being, damage which is getting much worse by the day. (And yes, I do pay taxes, hubby and I combined have a 6 figure income with no children at home and no loop holes so we pay a lot of taxes.)
But then, I have a social conscious and from your post, it sounds like you don't!!

[Insurance_Analyst]

7. Why don't I have faith in Americans...

Remember 50 million people voted for Bush when Gore had the greatest record of economic expansion going for him!

Even if you can't grasp the complexity of the issues that confronted the voters in 2000 the one thing that they should've known is that the economy was sizzling!!! And they should've understood at a minimum that Clinton/Gore's policies may have had something to do with that. Yet, many still voted for Bush for reasons like, "I didn't like the way that Bush's record (DUI) was made public in the final days before the election." Just stupid!!! And there were probably millions who voted because of dumb stuff like that. Another example would be the Gore is an exaggerator angle.

Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!

[teach1st]

6. GW: "Haven't we already given money to rich people?"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml

O'Neill, fired by the White House for his disagreement on tax cuts, is the main source for an upcoming book, "The Price of Loyalty," authored by Ron Suskind.

Suskind also writes about a White House meeting in which he says the president seems to be wavering about going forward with his second round of tax cuts. "Haven't we already given money to rich people ... Shouldn't we be giving money to the middle," Suskind says the president uttered, according to a nearly verbatim transcript of an Economic Team meeting he says he obtained from someone at the meeting.

[Insurance_Analyst]

8. Portions of the tax cut, suggested by Dems, are popular!!!

Making the 10% tax bracket retroactive was suggested by the Dems. Also, they wanted that bracket widened to $19,000 for joint filers.

[Skittles]

9. question

does the average American FEEL like s/he has "more money in their pocket"??? I f***ing DOUBT IT.

[Insurance_Analyst]

11. So you want to take even more away from them?

You are making my argument for me!

How can Howard Dean or Dick Gephardt convince middle class swing voters that raising their taxes is going to benefit them when they already know that the economic recovery is fragile???

This is how BushCo is going to frame the debate. And they will have an advantage, because they are the incumbent, of framing the debate to their greatest benefit!

[aquart]

12. Must every American think his neighbor is an idiot?

Only some of them are.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cocoa]

15. the GOP predicted Clinton's plan would cause a depression

no republican voted for it, but the dems passed it anyway and we all know what happened.

I think it's going to be a matter of credibility this time out, and the dem will win that battle easily.


edit: don't feel like getting a warning. :-)

[DUreader]

16. Don't Shill For W*. NO MORE TAX CUTS!!

If You Don't Agree To More Tax Cuts, You Are Raising Taxes?
BULLSHIT!!!

W* Wants More Tax Cuts And All It Means Is More Services Cut!!!

Why Are You Making Bush's Argument?

[DUreader]

17. This is a duplicate, link here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=307926