New ID rules may complicate air travel

[cal04]

Source: Associated Press

Millions of air travelers may find going through airport security much more complicated this spring, as the Bush administration heads toward a showdown with state governments over post-Sept. 11 rules for new driver's licenses.

By May, the dispute could leave millions of people unable to use their licenses to board planes, but privacy advocates called that a hollow threat by federal officials.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who was unveiling final details of the REAL ID Act's rules on Friday, said that if states want their licenses to remain valid for air travel after May 2008, those states must seek a waiver indicating they want more time to comply with the legislation.

(snip)
"Are they really prepared to shut those airports down? Which is what effectively would happen if the residents of those states are going to have to go through secondary scrutiny," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the ACLU's technology and liberty program. "This is a scare tactic."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080111/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/secure_driver_s_licenses

[MADem]

1. Well, the system is two-tiered anyway. This will make it REALLY two-tiered.

You CAN actually travel without any ID. You simply have to get secondarily screened, and they'll make ya pay for not wanting to show that ID....

[spotbird]

8. How do you do it?

How do you buy the ticket?

[MADem]

16. You go up to the counter, you pay cash, or you buy it ahead of time

online, or by phone, with your credit card.

When they demand your ID, as they do, at the counter, you tell them you don't have one. They say you can't fly, you tell them you want to see their supervisor, and you tell the supervisor that his or her subordinates don't know the law. The law is, you CAN fly, without any ID at all, but you have to agree to submit to secondary screening.

Here is a link that explains it all far better than I can: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/03/flying_without.html

[spotbird]

21. Have you done it?

or do you know anyone who has?

[MADem]

22. Yep--my relative, who lost her wallet. I had to get on the phone and

explain the law to the supervisor. She secondarily screened (twice--once on the way out, again on the way back) and was able to fly.

It's a major pain in the ass, though.

[spotbird]

23. Interesting.

If someone looks youngish they could say they don't have id and avoid the hassle too, I suppose.

[spotbird]

25. Apparently it doesn't work

for everyone http://ioerror.livejournal.com/388052.html?nc=11 .

[MADem]

29. Someone has to take on DELTA, which requires ID as a function of purchasing a ticket/flying with

them.

The alternative is to pick an airline that doesn't insist on ID as a condition of using their carrier.

[martymar64]

27. Next Step, Internal Passports!

We're becoming the new Soviet Union.
Now, will the so-called moderates finally recognize that the threat of fascism is real and has arrived?

Hello?
Is anybody awake?

[no_hypocrisy]

2. The airlines are gonna love the drop-off of customers who won't be allowed to embark

due to government regulations.

[aquart]

3. Did a stewardess once tell Bush he was over the limit?

His entire administration has been an assault on the travel and tourism industry, especially air travel.

I am surprised we haven't heard of travel agents committing suicide en masse.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

13. THe airlines have tried to eliminate travel agents altogether.

By using the Internet and their own reservation systems.

[enlightenment]

4. What a pain.

A damned cluster-fu*k.

argh.

[Coyote_Bandit]

5. Get a passport

and use it for domestic travel?

Nah, that probably isn't good enough either.

[flashl]

6. A push for National ID cards?

[Jersey Ginny]

19. We've got to have passports, we have Social Security numbers,

we've got drivers licenses. Why the hell to we need another national ID? Shut down the airports on this one *!

[fortyfeetunder]

7. I'll gladly find other transportation

If it means I can't fly, I'll find a way, drive my car, take the train, boat, or whatever because by the time I got through the airport, I might have been able to make the journey quicker by the other means....

[spotbird]

9. For travel east of the Mississippi,

that is true most of the time.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

14. Not where I live.

Where I live the nearest big city is 180 miles away (Austin).
The next closest one is 200 miles away (San Antonio).

Southwest started as an intra-state airline. This sounds like a giant boondoggle.

[spotbird]

20. For travel with the states east

of the Mississippi:

for the west it's a different story.

[villager]

12. Exactly so. The airline corporations will suddenly realize their support of Repubbies wasn't such

... a good idea.

We need better rail service in this country, anyway...

[thunder35]

10. stupid

[medeak]

11. NPR reported this won't take affect for 10 yrs

sounds like a lot of hysteria to me

[orleans]

17. the article linked says by may

"By May, the dispute could leave millions of people unable to use their licenses to board planes, but privacy advocates called that a hollow threat by federal officials.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who was unveiling final details of the REAL ID Act's rules on Friday, said that if states want their licenses to remain valid for air travel after May 2008, those states must seek a waiver indicating they want more time to comply with the legislation.

Chertoff said that for any state which doesn't seek such a waiver by May, residents of that state will have to use a passport or certain types of federal border-crossing cards if they want to avoid a vigorous secondary screening at airport security.

"The last thing I want to do is punish citizens of a state who would love to have a REAL ID license but can't get one," Chertoff said. "But in the end, the rule is the rule as passed by Congress."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080111/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/secure_driver_s_licenses

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. Tinfoil hat time, kiddies.

Apparently, the bastards want to stop people from freely traveling. I have long felt that was their intention and I have seen nothing to abuse me of that position.

Now, who stands to gain and what do they gain by doing just that, tightening the screws, during a vital campaign season?

Because you just know that Skeletor is gonna push this to the limit.

[orleans]

18. yeah...fuck this real i.d. crap. i was surprised to hear this on the radio yesterday

i thought, or i was hoping, they had given this up

[Timmy5835]

24. I wonder if.........

....after a Dem takes the White House this culture of fear and REAL ID will disappear?

[AzDar]

26. If Chertoff's selling it, I don't want it.

Goddamn, can we take another year of this?

[TankLV]

28. My Dad and Uncles fought WWII to STOP this sort of thing...fucking NAZI'S!

What's next: "Your papers please" for state to state travel or even city to city?

This has got to be STOPPED NOW!!!

Where are our so-called scardy-cat democratic leaders on this?

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY???

I thought the repukes were trying to make one "trade zone" - guess it's all about COROPORATIONS and MONEY, not INDIVIDUALS...

more crap from the repukes and repuke wannabes...

[ckramer]

30. If there is a fast non checked lane for ID holders in airport, I want one

I don't see why this is bad.

[Robb]

31. Sounds like a power grab, a la 55 mph speed limits tied to fed funding

Do it our way, or we yank your licenses, sez the fed now.

Should be an interesting standoff.