Confederate Flag Takes Center Stage Once Again

[DeepModem Mom]

Source: New York Times

By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: January 18, 2008

....“You don’t like people from outside the state coming in and telling you what to do with your flag,” Mr. Huckabee, a former governor of Arkansas, told supporters in Myrtle Beach, according to The Associated Press. “In fact,” he said, “if somebody came to Arkansas and told us what to do with our flag, we’d tell them what to do with the pole; that’s what we’d do.”

At a news conference on Thursday night, he said, “It is not an issue the president of the United States needs to weigh in on.” Mr. Huckabee, who did not say whether he considered it offensive to fly the Confederate battle flag, made his remarks as he toured the state with David Beasley, a former South Carolina governor, who had angered some conservatives by removing the flag from the Capitol dome in Columbia and displaying it elsewhere on the Capitol grounds.

And a radio advertisement paid for by an independent group used the flag issue to attack Mr. McCain, of Arizona, and praise Mr. Huckabee. “John McCain assaults our values,” it said. “Mike Huckabee understands the value of heritage.”...

***

The Confederate flag issue — while not as prominent as it was in 2000 — has continued to surface. Fred D. Thompson, the former Tennessee senator who is staking his campaign on a strong showing here, said at a debate in November that “for a great many Americans, it’s a symbol of racism” and added that he was “glad that people have made a decision not to display it as a prominent flag symbolic of something in a state capitol.”

Mr. McCain, who has cited his own equivocations on the issue in 2000 as one of his failures of political courage, was met at several stops by flag-waving protesters. Asked about the flag at an event on Wednesday in Spartanburg, Mr. McCain said, “My answer, sir, is that I could not be more proud that the overwhelming majority of the people of this state joined together taking that flag off the top of the....” And his answer was drowned out by the cheers of supporters....

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/18/us/politics/18campaign.html?bl&ex=1200805200&en=235fb0571e731cf0&ei=5087%0A

[BOSSHOG]

1. I like the way the NCAA handled the situation

They didn't "tell the state" what to do, they just said no sanctioned events would be held in the state.

And I just love that bumper sticker:

- "HERITAGE NOT HATE" it means so much to so many!

[Virginia Dare]

10. The Confederate Battle Flag is part of my heritage..

but I still hate what it stands for.

[yardwork]

24. It isn't, really. It's part of the heritage of the anti-Civil Rights Movement.

[Tesha]

33. And the heritage of (overt) traitors to our United States of America. (NT)

[Virginia Dare]

39. Well, we can't pick our ancestors can we?

:hi:

[Tesha]

45. That doesn't mean you should fly their flags. Should Americans of German descent fly Swatstikas? NT

[Virginia Dare]

49. Agreed..

I don't advocate flying it at all unless it's in a museum.:hi:

[DavidMS]

51. Cheap question.

The question is should Americans of German decent have some affection for the "Schwarz-Rot-Gold" Which was used by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany#Revolution_and_the_Frankfurt_Parliament">Frankfurt Parliament The German flag is Black-Red-Gold, never Black-Red-Yellow, as the Nazis and Kaiserreich both used it.

[Skittles]

43. their heritage IS hate

:o

[madmom]

2. True colors......?

[DeepModem Mom]

3. Good-ole-boy Huckabee's true colors? Looks like it. nt

[yardwork]

4. I'm glad that this issue is coming up again. It can only hurt the Republicans.

Republican candidates have a choice - they can take an ethical, sensible stand against this racist symbol, as McCain has done, and lose the knuckle-dragger vote that represents a significant portion of the Republican Party. Or they can pander to the knuckle-draggers, as Huckabee is doing, and lose everyone else's vote. I like it.

[Winterblues]

18. It isn't just a symbol of racism, it is a symbol of Treason

They took up arms against their country, the US of A and that is called TREASON.

[yardwork]

22. Well, actually, the so-called "Confederate flag" became popular in the 1950s.

It's not really the flag of the Confederacy, for starters. It's a battle flag that was virtually unknown anywhere until the 1950s. It was dragged out and hung up as a hysterical reaction to the Civil Rights Movement.

I know that flag-apologists try to connect it back to "Southern pride" blah blah blah - which, as you point out, connects back to a form of treason, if that's what you want to call a Civil War - but it's real symbolism is racism. Everyone displaying it knows that.

[bkcc]

29. A little more info on the design.

The Confederate flag that appeared in the 1950s is just a combination of the Confederacy's battle flag and naval flag designs.

Regardless of where the design came from, you're absolutely right about the fact that it's been co-opted by racists to serve as nothing more than a symbol of their hatred.

[yardwork]

30. So it's not even the original Confederate battle flag? Made up in the '50s?

Figures. Thanks for that info.

[Virginia Dare]

40. Coincides..

with putting "under God" in the Pledge. It was a racist xenophobic sexist and prejudiced time in our country. Ah, the "good old days".

[happyslug]

50. Actually the "Confederate Flag" is the Naval Jack NOT the Battle flag.

Battle flags are SQUARE, not Rectangular. Naval Jacks are Rectangle.
For more see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

[gort]

52. It was under this flag we kept slavery...

I think we need to remember our black brothers and sisters were kept enslaved under that flag even after the Revolutionary War.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

53. Your point is? -nt

[gort]

54. my point is obvious....

We had slavery under the Union Jack when we were a colony, we kept slavery when we "freed" ourselves(we being white male landowners)and even after Great Britain stopped enslaving human beings.

Slave Owners saluted the Stars and Stripes for many years before the Stars and Bars flew. They even believed they were doing God's work.

I am not justifying the Stars and Bars existence. I spit on that flag for the traitors and secessionists it represents.

[RoccoR5955]

5. Huckleberry should just STFU and...

Shove that confederate flagpole up his cornhole, while he keeps his sanctimonious cakehole SHUT!

[yardwork]

23. No, no. The more the huckster yaps, the more folks are turned off to Republicans.

That's a good thing. Keep yapping, hucks.

[951-Riverside]

6. Like flying a confederate flag?

Then get your ass back to Europe you traitor scum. :patriot:

[L0oniX]

7. The south will rise again!

:sarcasm:
Who needs our own slaves when we have Chinese slave labor?

[classysassy]

8. that rag

of a flag,is a sybol of hate.

[Hellenic_Pagan]

9. I dont see how people can state it is anything else

I mean its the BATTLE FLAG of the southern states, for gods' sakes! This is not even their "regular flag", but instead the very flag that they carried into battle. AGAINST THE US.

When i see this flag, i think it shows that the person wearing or flying it is willing to die for thier racism. It would be like someone wearing the Nazi's battle flag.

If it was simply history, wouldnt they be just as happy to use this flag instead?


But they NEVER use that one! Always with the battle flag!

[Virginia Dare]

11. The KKK adopted the Battle Flag as it's symbol..

which is why it eventually became a symbol of hate and racism. It should not be flown. Period.

[Uncle Joe]

28. I believe it's precisely because it was the Battle Flag that make it more

difficult for the descendants of Confederate Veterans to abandon. The Battle Flag more closely represents the 300,000 or so dead Confederate Soldiers; their ancestors, not counting the wounded. This is out of a total population of approximately 9 million of which 2 million were African Americans. That would be the equivalent of today's United States with a population of 300 million losing approximately nine million, nine hundred and ninety thousand Americans, not counting the wounded in a war. If you don't count African Americans as part of the Confederacy, as most people wouldn't then the percentage of dead Confederates goes even higher more like today's U.S. losing twelve million eight hundred and seventy thousand Americans in war, not counting the wounded.

The Flag you depict represented the Confederacy as a nation, which is easier for them to forget as it more closely represents the institution of slavery. A despicable institution which some more densely populated and enlightened northern states out lawed decades before.

I read a letter to the editor recently and it was from a mother who opposed the war with Iraq from the beginning but was conflicted about it now because she lost her son over there, and didn't want it to be in vain. I believe this is to be the same kind of emotion that descendants of Confederate Veterans feel.

[Tyler Durden]

46. If you REALLY want to fly the BATTLE Flag...

Then you want THIS ONE:




This one:



Is the 3rd "Navy Jack," most famous for having flown on the jackstaff of CSS ATLANTA. A Jack is flown ONLY from the bow JACKSTAFF of a ship AT ANCHOR IN HARBOR.

The Navy Jack was appropriated by the KKK and other racist groups for one reason: it is RECTANGULAR and therefore waves more like the National Flag: they didn't like the true flag of the Confederacy, or the square CS Army Battle Flag. Other than flying at the Jack of a CS NAVY SHIP, this flag has no other valid reason for being hoisted. It's like saying that this:



is the flag of the Union.

[Uncle Joe]

47. I agree with you in part, although one is square and the other rectangular,

their images are similar as opposed to the Confederate National Flag that the poster depicted, that I was replying to.

I also believe the KKK appropriated the flag you depicted for both reasons, it was rectangular and it was similar to the Battle Flag in design and as such, would garner more sympathy from Confederate Veterans and their descendants, than the Confederate National Flag.

[fascisthunter]

16. Flag of Traitors

[dogfacedboy]

12. Aside from the racist component, that flag is anti-American.

The CSA was a rogue state that began what came to be known as the Civil War with a terrorist attack on a United States military installation. Flying that flag is no different than flying the flag of any other US enemy. I equate it's display with treason.

[DeepModem Mom]

13. An interesting way to look at it in these times -- you're right. nt

[yardwork]

25. Civil Wars are more complicated than that. Nonetheless, that flag is shit.

[Hissyspit]

14. Alternate Headline: Mike Huckabee to Black South Carolinians - "Fuck You"

"It's not your flag. Just white folks."

What an absolute asshole he is.

[Acadia Blue]

15. Republicans always support racism.

[Thothmes]

19. Remember

From the end of the Civil War through the early 1960's virtually every state legislature and state government in the South were solid Democrats. Jim Crow law was enacted by the Democratic legislatures in virtually all Southern States. It was these Southern Democrats that backed FDR in the battles for the New Deal.

[yardwork]

26. That's true, but in the 1960s all those Democrats became hardcore Republicans.

The Republican Party today contains all the racists.

[Igel]

38. You haven't met my mother.

Ardent dem.

Also an ardent racist.

Einstein allegedly said that "a theory should be as simple as possible, not simpler than possible". Your theory lacks needed complexity.

[Skittles]

44. how do you handle being around a racist mom?

I cannot stand to be in the company of racists - they make me feel physically ill

[LanternWaste]

48. It was also during Roosevelt's administration

It was also during Roosevelt's administration that many Democrats broke off from the party and formed the Dixiecrat. Democrat's who were determined to use the new party to maintain and preserve the racially-oriented classism of the south and also out of fear of the "oppressive federal government" of the New Deal.


"When the Democratic Party began its drift toward more centralized socialized engineering in the 1930's, the Southern Democrats remained an anchor toward traditional Democratic policies of localized populism and progressivism. After the crisis of the Great Depression, World War Two, and the beginning of the Cold War, the National Democratic Leadership embraced fully a more centralized, socialized, secularized, and multicultural program. This was seen as a return to Reconstruction tyranny and many Southern Democrats began to drift from the National Party. As a result they became termed Dixiecrats."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat

[Doctor_J]

17. GOP prospects for November are bleak. Time to trot out the old reliables -

Confederate flag, gay marriage, abortion rights. Anything to avert attention from the economy and Stupid's foreign policy debacle.

[superconnected]

21. no, no, no, as of today the enemy is hackers and all internet traffic must

be monitored, be very affraid of China and the Eastern block.

The rw always tries to create a common enemy. It's an election year.

Let's keep an eye out on the fear their publicists spread through the papers and see what new takes they are going to have. The war and the old favs didn't help them much last election when they won by a hair and it required voting machine fraud, again.

[yardwork]

27. You're both wrong! It's "illegals!!!" Be very afraid. The illegals are comin'

/sarcasm

[superconnected]

20. Okay Huckkkabie. Understood!

[Bigmack]

31. The BIGGEST mistake this country EVER made

was not letting those yahboes secede. Ms. Bigmack

[pink-o]

32. OMFG!!! Have you guys seen the ad that appears at the end of this thread??

As usual, key words in the subject line have been "flagged" (pardon the pun) so when you get to the bottom, there's a confederate flag decale and where to get merchandise on EBay.:puke:

Placement irony rides again!

[rayofreason]

34. LOL!!!!

Somehow I think those advertising dollars are worth as much as the Confederate dollar was worth in 1866.

[rayofreason]

35. Hey, its gone now.

But it was funny while it lasted.

[pink-o]

36. I just saw it. Clicked onto the EBay link

See below:

http://search.ebay.com/confederate-flag

[yardwork]

37. I'm getting an ad for "American Civil War Ringtones."

[hayu_lol]

41. Keep Shuckabee in this frame of reference...

Fascism will come to America wearing a flag and carrying a cross.

Sinclair Lewis: It Can't Happen Here

[Danmel]

42. Maybe he can stop by Maurices

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173353286686