Georgia Lawmakers Want Border Redrawn for Some Tennessee Water

[NashVegas]

Source: Tennessean

Desperate for water amid a historic drought, some Georgia lawmakers are trying to reopen an 1818 border dispute with Tennessee.

They have set their sights on a stretch of the 652-mile long Tennessee River that flows tantalizingly close to the Georgia line — and by some historic accounts, should be within Georgia's borders.

Shafer's Senate resolution says a flawed survey in 1818 mistakenly marked Georgia's border one mile south of the 35th parallel — and thus excluded the Tennessee River from Georgia's reach.

There is a reason thirsty lawmakers are eyeing the river: It has a flow about 15 times greater than the river feeding Atlanta.
...
The border debate centers on an 1818 survey that has entered the folklore of north Georgia. As the story goes, surveyors charting out the 35th parallel were either frightened by a nearby Indian party or simply used flawed math to draw the line.

Either way, say Georgia partisans, the result is that Georgia's border now sits on dry land about a mile below where it should be. In fact, they say, it should be in the middle of the river. And lawmakers here are none too happy about it.

Read more: http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080207/NEWS02/802070427

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[Donnachaidh]

1. If we're desperate WHY is Sonny Purdue allowing people to fill private POOLS?

This is so frigging bogus. He was just on the news last night, claiming that he's easing the watering restrictions, and allowing pools to be filled.

Maybe the Tennessee River is a backup plan? He did so well in the courts recently. :rofl:

[hobbit709]

2. You got it.

Instead of conserving water, his plan is to steal it. Sounds like a good republican all right.

[beachmom]

3. Oh, I missed that. Was this because of the mosquito risk?

I am all for preventing pools being filled, but it came out that dormant pools in the summer could become a major health hazard if the pools weren't constantly treated against mosquitos.

Ridiculous that Sonny Perdue is easing those restrictions. He is a joke. But how much can I complain about him when he has a 52% approval rating in GA.

[NashVegas]

4. Seems Like

If people could fill their pools with enough rainwater to make malaria a factor, that might indicate there's not as much of a drought problem? And if the drought persists, would there be enough water to create a problem?

[Jeffro40]

21. Do you hear yourself? Purdue "Letting" them ?

I don't know what's true and what isn't, although they seem to be serious. But asking why a Governor is "letting" someone fill their pool? This is America pal. I'll choose to fill my pool (or not)., Actually, I don't even have one, and I would choose NOT to fill it in this case, but I sure as hell am not OK with supporting THAT logic.

Bush LET's the telcoms listen in on us . . . what's the difference?

[Lint Head]

5. So. A Ga Republican administration screws up their water policy

thus causing lack of water for their citizens compounded by the drought and they want to steal it. That sounds like a typical Re-Pubic-Rat idea. :dem:

[Caretha]

6. What's next...

Resource wars between states in the US?

[Hugabear]

7. That wouldn't be too awfully far-fetched

In fact, I'm sure there have been novels written about just such a scenario. In a time where water resources become at an all-time low, and if you have a particularly aggressive governor, I could envision him or her using their National Guard to seize "disputed" resources.

[atreides1]

9. What National Guard???

Most of the Guard are deployed along with their equipment.

[Hugabear]

11. That could even make it more likely

Let's say you're the governor of a state who just happens to have their National Guard at home, they're in between deployments. The state next to you, the one you're having a dispute with, they have their National Guard deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan, or some other place. That would make it even easier for you to have your NG units seize a reservoir, river, power plant, etc.

[Stuckinthebush]

13. It has already started

This is one example. Also, Sen. Shelby has used his power to make sure that water sharing agreements between GA and AL aren't changed. Georgia is in serious water trouble. They are the big dog in the South and will push every advantage they can. Watch SC, NC, TN and AL start giving sideways glances at Georgia for the next few years. Atlanta is not loved in the South except by Georgians. There is a great deal of schadenfreude by the other state citizens over this water issue. It's not going to be pretty.

[Rockerdem]

8. Bad surveying is a historical fact

I live in the West, and bad surveys are the rule, not the exception. Look at the crooked, out-of-square chunks of parcels on USGS maps and it becomes apparent.

I went through the old survey records in our assessor's office. What a revelation. In my area, the land surveys were done by private individuals contracted by the government. Although there were standards, speed seems to have been the driving factor. I found some other surveys that one surveyor did for private parties, and the corner markers were recorded using broken beer bottles, as shown on the original map. Explains a lot.

[atreides1]

10. Maybe So

But to try to correct it after more then a century, is BS.

[LiberalFighter]

12. Exactly, more to the point they knew about it back then and did not pursue it or continue to pursue

Fight goes back years

This isn't the first time lawmakers tried to reopen the argument. The resolution traces attempts to resolve the dispute as far back as 1887, when North Carolina — another border state involved in the dispute — authorized its governor to appoint commissioners and a surveyor to meet with neighboring delegations over the boundary.

More recently, Georgia legislators urged the governor in 1971 to launch joint surveys with North Carolina and Tennessee, but the border fight was never settled.

Georgia has eyed the Tennessee River for generations, but its interest has grown with the recent drought. Some influential politicians here have suggested using old-fashioned horse trading to work out a deal.

Source: Tennessean

[Stuckinthebush]

14. Yes, I'd imagine there is some legal mumbojumbo...

that says that if the borders have been unchallenged for centuries then it was a de facto agreement by all parties that the current situation is just fine and dandy.

Clearly, I'm no lawyer, but I'd assume there is something like that which could be used in a challenge.

[jonnywishbone97]

15. Florida and Alabama slapped Georgia around in court

let em whine.. its MY water not theirs.

[nealmhughes]

16. One need only note the flow directions of the Tennessee to see that it is not very economical:

The Tennessee starts in the mountains of VA, NC and TN as smaller streams meet and join around Knoxville, and then follows the rational method of water flow, i.e., downhill.
At Chattagooga it makes the first Big Bend and flows due west through North Alabama, then makes the second Big Bend to go straight north thru Tennessee and Kentucky to the Ohio then the Mississippi at Paducah/Cairo.
The mountains are between Atlanta and the Tennessee, which means unless they are going to do some gigantic hydraulic dam products and raise the level of water above the mountains between Atlanta and the river or else try to use a pipeline and boar through the mountains, then a series of pumping stations will be required to get the postulated water from the Tennessee to Atlanta.
Along the way, the state of Georgia will find itself at war with the TVA, Army Corps of Engineers, Alabama, Tennessee, and possibly Mississippi and Kentucky, since these would all be downstream of any postulated Atlanta tap. Navigation cannot be impeaded on the navigatable portions of the Tennessee (basically most of it) and there are several endangered species that live in the River and its tribs.
If Georgia thinks they can call dibs on the Tennessee, they are sadly mistaken, TVA controls the river, and one needs a speial permit to even put a boat pier onto the river, much less take water from it or its watershed!
From a hydraulic viewpoint: Atlanta has outgrown its water supply. The answer: have a portion of the population move to Chattanooga, Nashville, Memphis, or Huntsville, or even Knoxville due to the great rivers flowing through these cities!
One barge stuck at the main lock at Wilson Dam on the Tennessee paralyzed river traffic two years ago, and barges were backed up from Decatur well up into Tennessee past Waterloo, over 75 miles in Alabama last year as only the smaller aux lock could be used. The river level is carefully controlled by TVA for mosquito control, navigation, and aesthetic reasons. It is lowered in the winter, making sandbars and islets visible on the creeks that feed into the Tennessee that normally are not, and then the level is raised as the weather warms.
An adequate water height is required for industrial purposes as well as navigation, and that includes the three Browns Ferry and several Soddy Daisy nuclear power plants that TVA runs on the Tennessee, and the very major hydro dams on the river: Watts Bar, Guntersville, Wheeler, Wilson, and Pickwick. These dams impound water that form the lakes on the Tennesse in Tennessee, Alabama, and Mississippi as well as make navigation possible: in short, Georgia might as well try to hire a rain maker and a faith healer than to think that this would ever be approved by the several states that are on the Tennessee, their commercial interests, and the various federal agencies that would be affected.
Who would benefit: the lawyers! No one else as this would be tied up for the longest law suits in US history!

[onehandle]

17. Georgia is rich enough to take care of its own problems without cheating history.

All my adult life, people have been flooding into Georgia, sending our economy through the roof.

I want to know what crooked Sonny and the rest of our crooked government is doing with all of this money.

Certainly not putting it into the state. I've been all over the country and our services and infrastructure are a Joke.

Fuck Georgia! Let it dry up and blow away.

[The Croquist]

18. I may be alone but I find this fascinating

I live in Georgia:

This is a lawyers delight. It appears that the original survey was wrong but that was so long ago what is the solution? Georgia needs the water and if they can convince a court that it is still our land we may be able to pull this off but the obscure laws involved in this make my head spin. I'm not an expert but there seems to be plenty of water to spare up there. There is talk of a compromise. Water rights in exchange for dropping the claim with a rapid rail line thrown in. I have no idea about the engineering but I think it's generally downhill. That doesn't mean that the mountains aren't a huge issue but I just don't know.

One thing to consider is an obscure piece on Minnesota called "The Northwest Angle". This was kind of a screw up between the US and Great Britain in 1783 (not a typo). It's a small chunk of land north of our border with Canada that belongs to the US. It is about 596 (473 water) square miles and has about 150 US citizens. If we open up this case Canada may want to open up the Northwest Angle.

[NashVegas]

19. There Are Mountains on the Ga Side

That little corner where GA, TN, and AL meet is just breathtaking in its beauty. The cost of getting the water to Atlanta from there, I can't imagine.

Sonny needs to do better at managing the resources they do have, first.

[The Croquist]

20. When I was a kid I imagined a giant siphon

going from the pacific ocean into death valley. I thought the water would evaporate and rain down turning desert into farmland. It was going to be my project when I was king. The impact to the environment never came up. This was 40 plus years ago. Later I learned that the high point of the water siphon can't be more then about 33 feet above the starting point. I was heartbroken.

I doubt Sonny has learned the same lesson.